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#1 of 22 Old 07-17-2013, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Weren't people discussing SV40 a little bit ago?

 

I found this while surfing the web today and avoiding the heat!

 

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:8pUR6KX_Vq8J:www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/updates/archive/polio_and_cancer_factsheet.htm+cdc+polio+cancer+fact+sheet&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

 

 

  • SV40 is a virus found in some species of monkey.

 

  • ….it has been estimated that 10–30 million Americans could have received an SV40 contaminated dose of vaccine.

 

  • SV40 virus has been found in certain types of cancer in humans, but it has not been determined that SV40 causes these cancers.

 

  • The majority of scientific evidence suggests that SV40-contaminated vaccine did not causecancer; however, some research results are conflicting and more studies are needed.

 

  • Polio vaccines being used today do not contain SV40. All of the current evidence indicates thatpolio vaccines have been free of SV40 since 1963.

 

I think the bolded words are funny in a not so funny way.  Don't they know if the vaccines are free of SV40? - "all the evidence indicates"  eyesroll.gif

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#2 of 22 Old 07-17-2013, 11:21 AM
 
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#3 of 22 Old 07-17-2013, 01:17 PM
 
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Science talk again - "all the evidence indicates" = best answer we have. What more can you ask han the best answer? 


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#4 of 22 Old 07-17-2013, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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It is lame wording in this instance.

 

"all the current evidence indicates polio vaccines do not cause chicken pox" is fine.  They are not ruling it out, but they see no evidence for it.  Acceptable science-speak.

 

"all the current evidence indicates polio vaccines are free of SV40" is pretty lame.  Either it contains SV40, or it doesn't.  If they can't tell, i am not impressed.  They should know the ingredients in vaccines.   


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#5 of 22 Old 07-17-2013, 04:52 PM
 
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http://www.who.int/tobacco/media/en/TobaccoExplained.pdf

 

Lots of similarities here:

 

 

"In the face of mounting damning evidence against their product, the companies responded by creating doubt and controversy surrounding the health risks, whilst at the same time by responding to the growing public concern by putting filters on cigarettes and promising research into the health effects of smoking. They lulled the smoking public into a false sense of security, because, whilst this had the hallmarks of responsible companies acting in the public interest, it was actually a public relations strategy to buy time, at the expense of public health. "

 

Sound familiar?  That's because it is.

 

"Despite decades of evidence to the contrary, and millions of deaths caused by tobacco, the industry still largely maintains that the case against the cigarette is unproven. "  Sounds just like the industry that produces and profits from vaccines, Vioxx, Lipitor, antidepressants....except the phramaceutical industry is backed by...the government.

 

"Thirty years later, the majority of the industry still publicly denies the causation theory..."

 

"One all-encompassing fear of the American companies that had repercussions on their British counterparts was the threat of litigation. This affected what the companies researched in private and what they said in public."   The pharmaceutical industry clearly learned their lessons from the tobacco debacle.  The threat of litigation is now gone.  You CAN'T sue the vaccine manufacturers for adverse reactions.  And they've learned not to "go there," not to research anything that might lead to the conclusion that vaccines do indeed cause much more than "vanishingly rare" adverse reactions.  If you don't do that research, it can never be used against you.

 

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#6 of 22 Old 07-17-2013, 07:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

 

  • Polio vaccines being used today do not contain SV40. All of the current evidence indicates thatpolio vaccines have been free of SV40 since 1963.

 

I think the bolded words are funny in a not so funny way.  Don't they know if the vaccines are free of SV40? - "all the evidence indicates"  eyesroll.gif

 

They do know now that current vaccines are free of SV40. 

 

It is from 1963 that they can not say for sure whether or not there was SV40.  Back in 1963 they did not have the technology needed to find the extremely small amount of virus that would be found in a vaccine.  Now they have been able to test old vaccine stores and have not found it in vaccine from then though they did find it in older vaccine samples.  I don't know what "all evidence" is, but I would guess it is those tests of old vaccines coupled with the records of the process used to try to make SV40 vaccine. So all the evidence they do have leads the to believe that SV40 was gone, but since I imagine there was not a lot of vaccine from that time left around to test, they can not say it with 100% certainty.  

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#7 of 22 Old 07-17-2013, 07:50 PM
 
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http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2011/02/16/the-undead-undead-virus-myth/

 

"Multiple lines of evidence, from antibodies to SV40 to PCR. And unlike a current controversy in virology, the SV40 researchers actually had a plausible biochemical mechanism for how/why SV40 was causing this disease. It was starting to look pretty bad. So the NCI set up a SV40 working group in 1997:

In order to resolve why some laboratories detect traces of SV40 in mesothelioma while others do not, an International SV40 Working Group, which included the majority of laboratories studying SV40 in human tissues, was formed in 1997. Nine laboratories from the working group agreed to participate in a study, funded and organized by the National Cancer Institute (NCI). Each group was given 25 paired-duplicate samples of human mesotheliomas, a single set of 25 normal lung tissue samples, and positive and negative control samples. All the samples were blinded (labeled so that the human tumors and controls could not be distinguished) and each laboratory used its particular assay for detecting SV40, many of which had been used to detect SV40 previously. The results, published in the May 2001 issue of Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers and Prevention (36), showed that

none of the mesothelioma specimens was consistently positive for SV40.

Sounds familiar. Some labs can find SV40, some cant, and the ones that can find it, cant do it reproducibly.

Furthermore, the epidemiology of SV40–>cancer does not make sense. Cancer rates did not go up in populations exposed to the polio vaccine (in fact, sometimes they went down). Elderly, adults, children– no group shows an increase in cancer incidence based on putative exposure to SV40. Scientists even looked at populations in Northern India (where SV40 is out in the wild monkey population, thus humans might be exposed to it ‘naturally’ there), and there was no association between cancer and SV40."

 

 

 

BTWm if you go to CDC site and enter  SV 40 in search box, tons of articles and research comes up

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#8 of 22 Old 07-18-2013, 09:51 AM
 
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Hey I recognize the author of the piece above! 

Here she is saying that if you have Viruses you don't NEED Jesus and also that ALL major medical advances are due to using cell lines.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdseVBWbw2w

I knew I recognized her when I saw words like 'stupid' and 'woo' being used in a piece that portended to be 'science journalism'.
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#9 of 22 Old 07-18-2013, 12:12 PM
 
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Science vs. Superstition.....in other words, science vs. anyone with a belief in God. If you don't believe in evolution or vaccine science, you're just a superstitious idiot. Nice. Why can't we have the best of both worlds? Why does it always have to be science OR God?

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               "Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed, by the masses."

                ~Captain Hammer (j/k, it was Plato)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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#10 of 22 Old 07-18-2013, 12:34 PM
 
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I know a lot of scientists who believe in God. And a lot who don't. For me understanding science and the amazing unseen world (both the vastness of space, and the incredible complexity of life at a cellular or smaller level) can only increase the wonder of creation. 

 

My mother worked with a biology teacher (who taught evolution) who was also a CofE Vicar. When asked about the 7 days of creation his response was "how long is a 'day'" - and that he interpreted the story metaphorically rather than literally.

 

As far as I'm aware there's no-where in the bible which says "thou shalt not vaccinate", or "thou shalt not explore and try better to understand the amazing world". But even if there is it also has lines about not eating shell fish and other stuff often neglected so..... 

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#11 of 22 Old 07-18-2013, 01:17 PM
 
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^I agree, but I posted the link to show that the author is an extreme & EVANGELICAL atheist who pits one against the other. (Viruses vs. Jesus, for example, that is directly from the video). 

 

I actually love science and I am head over heels for Jesus. Loving science doesn't IMO, mean loving scientific dogma.

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#12 of 22 Old 07-18-2013, 01:19 PM
 
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The New Testament DOES say that you can't serve God & Mammon (money) at the same time. It also does caution against Pharmakeia . . . 

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#13 of 22 Old 07-18-2013, 01:22 PM
 
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I'm all for agreeing Big Pharma is evil - just that some of the things they make can be quite useful. I cannot make viruses less effective so that they induce an immune response without making my kids ill - the scientists who work for big pharma can.


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#14 of 22 Old 07-18-2013, 09:42 PM
 
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I'm all for agreeing Big Pharma is evil - just that some of the things they make can be quite useful. I cannot make viruses less effective so that they induce an immune response without making my kids ill - the scientists who work for big pharma can.

I agree with your first sentence.  There are many useful, even life-saving products made by Big Pharma.

 

Your second sentence--well, you're kind of stuck in the narrow-minded medical dogma, aren't you? You seem to think that there are only two choices--vaccines, or deathly illness.  

I react very badly to flu shots.  I've had two of them, and had very consistent reactions that made me lose over a month of work.  But I handle the flu itself, as well as most other viruses, with ease.  So guess what--the scientists who work for big pharma can't make viruses less effective so that they induce an immune response without making ME much sicker than I would have been from the illness.

 

And there are apparently a lot more people like me than you want to admit.

 

Your assumption that the only answer is to vaccinate is, well, unscientific.  It is not a noble gesture to demand other people to submit to an invasive procedure that carries a risk of harm, just to protect you and your children.

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#15 of 22 Old 07-19-2013, 07:53 AM
 
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I think it is selfish not to vaccinate oneself or ones kids (providing one does not have a reaction to the vaccine) and then start epidemics that kill other Innocent people.

 

We are all not the fittest.  300 years ago 1/3 of the children did not survive till age 5 because of the VPD.

 

 

I had a reaction to a vaccine and 2 VPDs. I till take a reaction over VPDs any time.

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#16 of 22 Old 07-19-2013, 08:59 AM
 
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Who is starting epidemics? Pertussis does not 'get started' it is endemic & cyclical. It also affects the fully vaccinated in large numbers.
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#17 of 22 Old 07-19-2013, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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We are all not the fittest.  300 years ago 1/3 of the children did not survive till age 5 because of the VPD.

 

 

Link?

 

It would be nice if it said which VPD as well, as not all viruses are created equal.  It would also be nice if said link discussed how vacines are responsible for our current longevity (and not, oh, antibiotics and public health measures such as improved sanitation)…but I can start with the 1/3 did not live past 5 due to VPD's.  


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#18 of 22 Old 07-19-2013, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Who is starting epidemics? 

It's a mystery.

 

It is also the ultimate in fear mongering:  you have to vaccinate or diseases will come back and we  will have people dying in the streets.  Never mind that things like rotavirus has a death rate of 1/200 000 in the USA.  (I understand some people vaccinate to avoid illness, even if they know it is not usually fatal - however, we are discussing the "dying in the streets" fearmongerring gambit wink1.gif)


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#19 of 22 Old 07-19-2013, 09:29 AM
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I think it is selfish not to vaccinate oneself or ones kids (providing one does not have a reaction to the vaccine) and then start epidemics that kill other Innocent people.

 

We are all not the fittest.  300 years ago 1/3 of the children did not survive till age 5 because of the VPD.

 

 

I had a reaction to a vaccine and 2 VPDs. I till take a reaction over VPDs any time.

 

Alenushka, your statement is within the gray areas of advocating for mandatory vaccination of all people. We don't host such advocacy here so please edit. 

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#20 of 22 Old 07-19-2013, 09:30 AM
 
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Hi y'all - Flags have been made. If you are calling people selfish, please get it out of your post and/or reword it to something nicer/more civil. We have people on both sides of the fence complaining about the others use of the word selfish.

None of you are selfish - you wouldn't be here debating if you only cared for yourself.

Posting to thread so the whole thread doesn't devolve in to ruin over  the accusations of selfishness.

Sorry have bad carpal tunnel or something. brief because of pain, not being rude.


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#21 of 22 Old 07-19-2013, 09:31 AM
 
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Thanks Cynthia


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#22 of 22 Old 07-19-2013, 10:03 AM
 
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