Where's all the Outbreaks? - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 15 Old 08-12-2013, 05:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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With all the talk about certain states like michigan, vermont, colorado having unusually high exemption rates, i'm wondering where all the outbreaks of disease are for these kids in these states.  No one mentions it when they talk of the high exemption rate...Of course, we know that oubreaks occur in populations that are fully vaxed, but the high exemption issue has me wondering.  I, somehow don't think an outbreak is 'around the corner waiting to happen due to a small percentage of a  nonvaxed population'.

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#2 of 15 Old 08-12-2013, 01:39 PM
 
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I think it also comes back to what the heck is an outbreak?  Was it measles there were 2 cases out of 5 million people in the Denver area?  How is 1 in 2.5 million an outbreak anywhere except a headline or a pharmaceutical advertisement?

 

Aside from which, it's never disclosed how many people caught the disease from the vaccination, which our immediate family knows from personal experience can absolutely happen.

 

It is also generally a far worse battle with the disease for those who are vaccinated than those who aren't.  Again, something our immediate family experienced.  Not sure if the strains in the vaccines are just that much stronger, more intense, etc. or if it because their immune system is already so compromised.

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#3 of 15 Old 08-12-2013, 02:13 PM
 
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Measles in the UK (Wales earlier this year, now Northern England).

Kisthemum - not sure why your family is different, but the medical evidence shows that if vaccinated people do get a disease they've been vaccinated against its generally a milder and shorter case.

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#4 of 15 Old 08-12-2013, 02:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

Measles in the UK (Wales earlier this year, now Northern England).

Kisthemum - not sure why your family is different, but the medical evidence shows that if vaccinated people do get a disease they've been vaccinated against its generally a milder and shorter case.

And what is the vaccination rate for measles in Wales and Northern England, 90% at least?

 

I live in a city with a 60% fully vaccinated rate, 40% unvaccinated or under vaccinated - MMR and Chickenpox being the vaccines most refused. The last case of mealses was in 2006, a baby who had traveled back from Bangkok and India. Chicken pox is fairly easy to come by though.

 

I haven't found that vaccine makes for a milder case, when my kids had chicken pox, the disease did not discriminate between the vaxed or unvaxed, neither did the mildness of the case. Some vaxed kids got a bad case, some mild. Some unvaxed kids got a bad case, others (like my DS) got a mild dose.

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#5 of 15 Old 08-13-2013, 04:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

Measles in the UK (Wales earlier this year, now Northern England).

Kisthemum - not sure why your family is different, but the medical evidence shows that if vaccinated people do get a disease they've been vaccinated against its generally a milder and shorter case.

i meant solely in the United States...Every summer for the past 5yrs now, 'they' have been saying how nonvaxed kids put 'everyone' at risk....This year seems to be the worst yet for finger pointing.    So, it led me to wonder where are all these outbreaks 'they' keep talking about will happen.  When i say 'outbreak' i am referring in the context of entire schools shutting down, quarantine for sick kids, nat'l news headlines, etc, etc...The only outbreak i can really remember is the pertussis one a couple years back, and an entire vaxed population contracted it anyways.    And that is still happening in small pockets around the USA, from what i can gather via anedotal stories, or small news stories about it.  But no one is really blaming nonvaxers for the WC outbreak as it was a vaccine failure.  

 

just found this

http://fox40.com/2013/08/12/boy-quarantined-for-whooping-cough-had-been-vaccinated/

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#6 of 15 Old 08-14-2013, 06:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Again, wheres all the oubreaks in this sparsly vaxed population?

Quote:
And it’s even worse in some of L.A.’s private schools, where as few as 20 percent of kids are vaccinated in some schools. “Yes, that’s right: Parents are willingly paying up to $25,000 a year to schools at which fewer than 1 in 5 kindergartners has been immunized against the pathogens causing such life-threatening illnesses as measles, polio, meningitis and pertussis (more commonly known as whooping cough),” she wrote.

http://www.salon.com/2013/08/14/whats_with_rich_people_hating_vaccines/

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#7 of 15 Old 08-14-2013, 06:58 PM
 
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My son is going to a private school where almost no one is vaccinated. Silly rich people!!! ;-P
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#8 of 15 Old 08-14-2013, 11:56 PM
 
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MMR rates in the UK in 1990s were way below 90%. I'd need to look for exact numbers to give a reference for that. The big outbreak recently centered on Cardiff which had lower than average rates.

Everyone hopes outbreaks don't happen in under vaccinated populations in the USA. Obviously there's needs to be an exposure to the virus/bacteria which makes the disease for an outbreak to happen, and predicting when that might happen is not easy. I would guess they pick the summer as that's when more people travel internationally to places where some of these diseases are more common.

Personally I'll keep my fingers crossed the predictions are wrong. I hope people choosing not to vaccinate will be proved right that it's safe and there is not a major news story about diphtheria or measles coming back in the USA. I'm not being sarcastic by the way - I really hope that.

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#9 of 15 Old 08-15-2013, 04:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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My son is going to a private school where almost no one is vaccinated. Silly rich people!!! ;-P

and in this school, how many outbreaks of any communicable disease for which there is a vaccine for, occur and at what rate?

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#10 of 15 Old 08-15-2013, 08:03 AM
 
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I don't know the rates. I know there are a few chicken pox but that also goes around the public schools as well. We do have pertussis up here occasionally but less than other places that have higher vax numbers according to the last CDC map I looked at. The biggest outbreak in the last three years was LICE! I know because the school lets everyone know when something is going around.

The school offers financial aide so it's not only "rich" people who are not vaccinated. Around here there is a large unvaccinated population in both public and private schools, as well as a substantial homeschooled population.
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#11 of 15 Old 08-15-2013, 08:14 AM
 
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Originally Posted by emmy526 View Post

Again, wheres all the oubreaks in this sparsly vaxed population?

http://www.salon.com/2013/08/14/whats_with_rich_people_hating_vaccines/

Well, that was an annoying article.

 

If we get bored, we could play "spot the fallacies."  

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#12 of 15 Old 08-15-2013, 08:18 AM
 
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MMR rates in the UK in 1990s were way below 90%. I'd need to look for exact numbers to give a reference for that. The big outbreak recently centered on Cardiff which had lower than average rates.

Everyone hopes outbreaks don't happen in under vaccinated populations in the USA. Obviously there's needs to be an exposure to the virus/bacteria which makes the disease for an outbreak to happen, and predicting when that might happen is not easy. I would guess they pick the summer as that's when more people travel internationally to places where some of these diseases are more common.

Personally I'll keep my fingers crossed the predictions are wrong. I hope people choosing not to vaccinate will be proved right that it's safe and there is not a major news story about diphtheria or measles coming back in the USA. I'm not being sarcastic by the way - I really hope that.

I have lived in the US for 16 years, 15 of which has been in a city with a very low vaccination rate, there has not been one single outbreak. Whooping cough is definitely around, but like chicken pox, it occurs in both the vaxed and unvaxed (I know of two teens both vaxed who recently had it), there have been no deaths due to pertussis. My city is also very international, with a highly regarded university which attracts many foreign students. It is probably one of the most highly educated cities in the US, not to mention health conscious, we have far fewer obese people here than elsewhere in the US. I was in the UK last month, and was shocked to see so many obese kids, it never used to be that way.

 

Please uncrossed your fingers for us, there is no need to worry we aren't going to be dropping like flies on the clean streets of Boulder.

 

ETD: I have not been able to find the rate of autism in Boulder CO, I suspect it is probably quite a bit less than 1 in 50, and they want to keep this information out of the public domain because the parents of Boulder, are not so easily fooled. 

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#13 of 15 Old 08-15-2013, 08:18 AM
 
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Well, that was an annoying article.

If we get bored, we could play "spot the fallcies."  

To be honest I can't even click on it. The title is already so divisive that I know it is not for me!
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#14 of 15 Old 08-16-2013, 06:03 AM - Thread Starter
 
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To be honest I can't even click on it. The title is already so divisive that I know it is not for me!

it actually starts off talking about Jenny McCarthy, and later on, goes onto the stats of all the unvaxed kids around the country, and in what states more of those children are in.  and good ole (pr)offitt has his say so too...censored.gif...

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#15 of 15 Old 08-16-2013, 06:55 AM
 
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it actually starts off talking about Jenny McCarthy, and later on, goes onto the stats of all the unvaxed kids around the country, and in what states more of those children are in.  and good ole (pr)offitt has his say so too...censored.gif
...

Barf!!
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