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#1 of 24 Old 08-15-2013, 06:16 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi everyone.  I am expecting my first baby in Dec and I'm trying to do some vax research but having a really hard time - I'm overwhelmed and the "information" provided on both sides is so confusing to me.  I don't know who/what to believe at this point.

 

If you were to suggest one or two things to read to someone brand new to the vax debate, to get them started, to where would you point that person?

 

I'm trying to stay away from opinion pieces. I want well researched/resourced articles, books or studies.  I really just need some direction, as opposed to randomly seeking stuff out on the internet.  Like I said....I'm just really overwhelmed. 

 

Oh, I am currently reading the Dr Sears book.

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#2 of 24 Old 08-15-2013, 08:21 AM
 
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While I am still on the fence about vaccines myself, The Business of Baby book has some pretty eye opening information about vaccines among many other issues American parents face. 

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#3 of 24 Old 08-15-2013, 08:34 AM
 
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Vaccine Epidemic. How Corporate Greed, Biased Science, and Coercive Government Threaten Our Human Rights, Our Health and Our Children by Louise Kuo Habakus, MA and Mary Holland JD

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#4 of 24 Old 08-15-2013, 09:03 AM
 
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#5 of 24 Old 08-15-2013, 09:06 AM
 
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The Greater Good Vaccines Documentary--full length...(unf, foreign subtitles)

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#6 of 24 Old 08-15-2013, 10:53 AM
 
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I pm'd you.


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#7 of 24 Old 08-15-2013, 10:53 AM
 
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nm


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#8 of 24 Old 08-15-2013, 10:59 AM
 
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You will like the Dr. Sears book. Also, check out the inserts that come with the vaccines themselves. That really helped me. :-)

Good luck!! So tough making this decision. But you don't have to decide all at once. :-)
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#9 of 24 Old 08-15-2013, 12:12 PM
 
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It's not only about vaccines, but I recently found "Bad Science" by Ben Goldacre a good read, and it tries to give a grounding in how to make your own judgement calls about what's good science and what's bad science, so that should be helpful.

Also don't be afraid to talk to your doctor about your worries. smile.gif

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#10 of 24 Old 08-15-2013, 08:15 PM
 
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I really liked Vaccine Epidemic. Seconding a pp's suggestion.
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#11 of 24 Old 08-16-2013, 05:08 AM
 
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www.fourteenstudies.org
They totally shred the studies that supposedly show vaccine safety. They point out the many flaws and the conflicts of interest.

They also have a page devoted to scientific studies that show major problems with vaccine safety.
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#12 of 24 Old 08-16-2013, 05:11 AM
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I'm with proscience in asking your doctor first. I would also recommend to check the Vaccine Information Statements for each vaccine. It has lots of info on benefits, potential side effects, who should take it, who shouldn't take it, what to look for (signs of trouble), etc.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/vis/index.html

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#13 of 24 Old 08-16-2013, 05:24 AM
 
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Vaccine Insert Statement are really basic.

 

I would take it a step further and read the package inserts:

 

http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/package_inserts.htm

 

As per the advice to talk your doctor - sure, talk to him or her.  Most doctor appointments are what - 10-15 minutes?  In order to get the most of the talk, you might want to do some research first so you have a list of questions to raise.  

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#14 of 24 Old 08-16-2013, 12:32 PM
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Indeed. If you are willing to put the time and effort the vaccine safety website is a good choice. It also has links on the left side with additional information including research findings about vaccines :)

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#15 of 24 Old 08-16-2013, 05:29 PM
 
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For all of you Ask-Your-Doctor people . . .

My doctor, a Board-certified M.D. from a top-tier medical school, recommends against my children getting the varicella and Hep B vaccines. Should I ask my doctor about vaccines? Or should I only be asking doctors pre-approved by anonymous MDC pro-vaxxers? smile.gif
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#16 of 24 Old 08-16-2013, 05:29 PM
 
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Duplicate.

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#17 of 24 Old 08-16-2013, 05:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post

For all of you Ask-Your-Doctor people . . .

My doctor, a Board-certified M.D. from a top-tier medical school, recommends against my children getting the varicella and Hep B vaccines. Should I ask my doctor about vaccines? Or should I only be asking doctors pre-approved by anonymous MDC pro-vaxxers? smile.gif

 

They'd probably recommend against my GP too. When we talked about it, he had some that he thought were vital and others that were much, much lower on his list.

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#18 of 24 Old 08-17-2013, 01:20 AM
 
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The health service in the UK does not recommend varicella, or hep B at birth either.

I realize the situation is very complicated in the USA. However, Doctors are supposed to be there for advice and to help us understand medical issues. Whatever your opinion, they do have more background in medical decisions than most parents so I think discussing options/worries is a good idea. I'm not suggesting the OP blindly does what her doctor suggests, but I think having the converstaion is a good idea.

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#19 of 24 Old 08-17-2013, 07:38 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

The health service in the UK does not recommend varicella, or hep B at birth either.

I realize the situation is very complicated in the USA. However, Doctors are supposed to be there for advice and to help us understand medical issues. Whatever your opinion, they do have more background in medical decisions than most parents so I think discussing options/worries is a good idea. I'm not suggesting the OP blindly does what her doctor suggests, but I think having the converstaion is a good idea.

The experience of most of us here is that doctors don't discuss options and worries about vaccines.  They tell us that we are required to have them or they will refuse to treat our child. 

 

Where vaccines are concerned, THIS: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/patient-ed/conversations/index.html is pretty much the extent of pediatricans' "background in medical decisions."

 

You'll note that the assumption is already there that vaccines--including varicella, hep B at birth, the flu shot, and Gardasil--are not only safe and effective, but absolutely necessary.  The goal here is to increase vaccination rates, not to increase vaccine safety.  There isn't even any leeway to give one shot at a time to a child who HAS had adverse effects (which would be much safer, as then one would know which vaccine is causing the reaction).  There is no deviation. No pre-screening. No concern for families with history of vaccine reaction, seizure, autoimmune disorders, vitamin deficiencies.  One size fits all. No matter what.

 

You're a scientist, prosciencemum.  What do you think is the effect of giving a toddler with, say celiac disease that is not yet controlled by diet, 5 vaccines, one of which (the flu shot) contains thimerosal, and the rest containing aluminum?  Remember, celiac disease means a leaky gut; it also means vitamin deficiency, and glutathione deficiency.  Without glutathione, heavy metals are not excreted properly and can travel to the brain.

 

Also remember that mothers with celiac disease are more likely to have children with autism than mothers without celiac disease.

 

Tell us how many doctors are aware of this potential connection between celiac disease and vaccine reaction? Tell me how many will say, "yes, let's get the intestinal problems under control before we vaccinate, just to be on the safe side?"

Now tell us how many will say, "naah, toddlers get diarrhea/constipation all the time!  Don't worry about it!  As long as there's not high fever, we're safe to give all 5 vaccines!  Or 7!  Or 9!"

 

Sure, communication with doctors is of utmost importance--but if doctors aren't trained to understand or even recognize vaccine reactions, but they ARE trained to dismiss the possibility of vaccine reaction, how will discussing one's worries about vaccine reactions with the doctor be helpful?

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#20 of 24 Old 08-17-2013, 07:40 AM
 
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^ See, that's just it. Since doctors are not a monolith and health recommendations vary vastly, perhaps the advice shouldn't be so much "ask your doctor" as, "Consult a wide variety of sources, including perhaps your doctor and other doctors."
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#21 of 24 Old 08-17-2013, 10:10 AM
 
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^ See, that's just it. Since doctors are not a monolith and health recommendations vary vastly, perhaps the advice shouldn't be so much "ask your doctor" as, "Consult a wide variety of sources, including perhaps your doctor and other doctors."

I absolutely agree.

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#22 of 24 Old 08-27-2013, 06:51 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi everyone, so sorry I've been MIA on this thread. The last few weeks of life have been a bit...crazy.


Anyway, I am going to read through everything posted.  Thank you so much for taking the time to respond.

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#23 of 24 Old 08-27-2013, 11:49 AM
 
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When making a decision regarding vax, the product information insert that comes in the box for the vax is a must. My eyes nearly popped out of my head when I took up that reading material and cross referenced it online (looked up the MSDS sheets for specific ingredients, etc). You can find them online too.

Best wishes
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#24 of 24 Old 08-27-2013, 06:53 PM
 
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I definitely agree with the other mamas about reading the package inserts. What helped my husband & I decide was to also read the vaccine ingredients. Take each ingredient & research it separately to learn the side effects, risks, etc. It's very eye opening.

 

Both these links are very good!

 

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/b/excipient-table-2.pdf

 

http://www.informedchoice.info/cocktail.html


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