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Old 08-26-2013, 08:03 PM
 
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This is a really great discussion, and I agree with many of the points raised. I just wanted to request that we steer clear of the 'this is just like nazi Germany' thing. I understand vaxing is a hot topic, but many women (like myself) that are raising kids with no family history because of a mass slaughter in the family tree may be offended.

I'm not personally offended, and I really dont mean to call out PP here (I know what you meant, i promise!) I've just seen many many debates quickly desolve when the nazi bomb is dropped. OP may have been misguided, but I highly doubt she's suggesting we mark kids to aid in gathering them up to senselessly murder.

And OP...no. Just no.
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:46 PM
 
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Taking the OP's question as is..why do you feel the need to know? Do you feel unsafe around anyone unvaxed? Like I posted in the other thread, that includes MOST adults who have not been updated with their boosters for a very long time. Are you up to date with your shots OP?  You cannot just group children and omit the adults. Is it possible you would be wearing that so called bracelet as well?

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Old 08-26-2013, 09:03 PM
 
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This is a really great discussion, and I agree with many of the points raised. I just wanted to request that we steer clear of the 'this is just like nazi Germany' thing. I understand vaxing is a hot topic, but many women (like myself) that are raising kids with no family history because of a mass slaughter in the family tree may be offended.

I'm not personally offended, and I really dont mean to call out PP here (I know what you meant, i promise!) I've just seen many many debates quickly desolve when the nazi bomb is dropped. OP may have been misguided, but I highly doubt she's suggesting we mark kids to aid in gathering them up to senselessly murder.

And OP...no. Just no.

I am the member who mentioned the word Nazi and my comparison was simply because the OP was suggesting a mark for the unvaccinated that was strikingly similar to those forced upon Jews in Germany. I was certainly not comparing the suffering of those persecuted in Germany, just the mark to publicly declare some as a sort of public nuisance. If anyone misunderstood me please accept my apologies but I stand by my analogy. Not ok then, not ok now.

FWIW, my children are vaccinated on my chosen schedule, one that doesn't include all vaccines but many. I still find the suggestion reprehensible.
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Old 08-26-2013, 11:37 PM
 
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This is a really great discussion, and I agree with many of the points raised. I just wanted to request that we steer clear of the 'this is just like nazi Germany' thing. I understand vaxing is a hot topic, but many women (like myself) that are raising kids with no family history because of a mass slaughter in the family tree may be offended.

I'm not personally offended, and I really dont mean to call out PP here (I know what you meant, i promise!) I've just seen many many debates quickly desolve when the nazi bomb is dropped. OP may have been misguided, but I highly doubt she's suggesting we mark kids to aid in gathering them up to senselessly murder.

And OP...no. Just no.
I thought it was an appropriate comparison. I understand that the period of history referred to is more of a trigger for some than for others, but it is our communal history and I for one would rather have it called up and remembered than buried and its lessons forgotten out of a desire to be politically correct and sensitive.

I do find the OP's suggestion very offensive and dangerous, and it's scary to think that the overly simplistic and propaganda filled drive to stamp out vaccine skepticism will lead us here - or somewhere equally oppressive - if nothing changes.

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Old 08-27-2013, 12:00 AM
 
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it is our communal history and I for one would rather have it called up and remembered than buried and its lessons forgotten out of a desire to be politically correct and sensitive.

I agree.


 
 
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:07 AM
 
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The point of marking people who are unvaxed, is to conquer and divide...which the USA is trying to do...does it resemble marking a nation of people for their beliefs as what happened in previous history? Absolutely.   The medical industry is making a mockery of medicine, and the gov colludes with them to do it.   Let's intimidate the masses thru fear and misconception, to sell our product...and whomever should refuse our product will surely be shamed publicly via ' the scarlet bracelet'

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Old 08-27-2013, 09:14 AM
 
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this same thing was floated when AIDS first came about irked.gif

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The point of marking people who are unvaxed, is to conquer and divide...which the USA is trying to do...does it resemble marking a nation of people for their beliefs as what happened during WW2? Absolutely.


 

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Old 08-27-2013, 09:18 AM
 
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this same thing was floated when AIDS first came about irked.gif

yeah, i remember that....the attitude was, 'lets identify all the HIV carriers'  so we know to stay away from them

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Old 08-27-2013, 09:26 AM
 
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Haven't said anything because I was not wanting to derail this thread, but I have to agree with Skelly2011 and say that I don't think it's appropriate to bring up the Haulocast for a number of reasons. Of course I think what the OP is suggesting is preposterous. But I still don't think it's comparable. Not trying to start a fire here, just felt the need to defend someone who has personal experience with something most of us can't begin to understand.

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Old 08-27-2013, 09:28 AM
 
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yeah, i remember that....the attitude was, 'lets identify all the HIV carriers'  so we know to stay away from them

and that didn't work either, nor would this, when the number of ADULTS are found to not be "up to date" and surprise ~ surprise the $$$ comes out to "up-dates" those adults (gee let's see, Medicare won't pay for this and I have to pay out of pocket??? NO WAY!), this too would not work irked.gifirked.gifirked.gif


 

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Old 08-27-2013, 09:34 AM
 
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I think the AIDS comparison here is far more apt. Again, I understand what the previous poster was saying, I understand the aspect of this that draws parallels. I'm an activist, I get feeling that kind of passion for your cause. It's just generally not so wise to use another people's genocide as a backing to oppose a hypothetical wrist band on kids. Holocaust references are an extremely sensitive subject and deserves a certain degree of respect. invoking the name of murdered children for the sake of un-vaxed children just feels way too weird for me.

TCmoulton, I feel like I'm coming across as really critical of you and I really want to apologize for that. This just comes up so frequently I just had to say something. I understood what you meant, and I really hope you don't think I'm bashing you in any way.

Anyways, I've effectively derailed the conversation here and I apologize. It's not about being PC, it's not about our history as a global people, the fact is there are a large group of women on this very site who may only be two or three generations removed from the senseless slaughter of their entire family tree, and it just doesn't seem right to further an argument with their tragedy. We're all so careful here to respect birth choices, respect sexual orientation, respect disabilities, support each others choices. Let's try to extend that into cultural sensitivity.

I won't add anymore to this thread, I feel bad about killing the thread topic here, but thank you to those who PM'd me with support.
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Old 08-27-2013, 10:37 AM
 
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I think the AIDS comparison here is far more apt. Again, I understand what the previous poster was saying, I understand the aspect of this that draws parallels. I'm an activist, I get feeling that kind of passion for your cause. It's just generally not so wise to use another people's genocide as a backing to oppose a hypothetical wrist band on kids. Holocaust references are an extremely sensitive subject and deserves a certain degree of respect. invoking the name of murdered children for the sake of un-vaxed children just feels way too weird for me.

TCmoulton, I feel like I'm coming across as really critical of you and I really want to apologize for that. This just comes up so frequently I just had to say something. I understood what you meant, and I really hope you don't think I'm bashing you in any way.

I do feel mentioning about the WW2 is a very good comparison, because it was a time identifying marks were in fact used. I feel it is a good things to make people feel uncomfortable that tends to wake them up to the fact this isn't ancient history- it's real and as we have seen WW2 wasn't much of a learning experience in many regards- Rhonda? and all the others seem to have shown we don't do well as a society to right wrongs. We could go way back WW2 clearly wasn't the only time we have used means to identify select groups. Since most lack even basic history knowledge most do understand how groups were made to wear markings in WW2 area.

 

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Old 08-27-2013, 09:25 PM
 
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This is obviously coming from a parent who has not done her research. I would like to know who has been vaccinated, so I can keep my child far away. However, I would never propose they wear a identification bracelet.
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:56 PM
 
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This is obviously coming from a parent who has not done her research. I would like to know who has been vaccinated, so I can keep my child far away. However, I would never propose they wear a identification bracelet.

May I ask why you would avoid vaccinated children?
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:41 AM
 
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This is obviously coming from a parent who has not done her research. I would like to know who has been vaccinated, so I can keep my child far away. However, I would never propose they wear a identification bracelet.

there was a time, long long ago when we did identify some who vaccinated ----- it's called a "push-button" by some (or one could say they did it when they took you on the big UFO ship!), usually on your left arm, nice and round and a noticeable size too-it's called smallpox and try explaining it in the middle of your first night of sex with someone who had no clue we use to even vaccinate for smallpox - quite the conversation to have- I know! winky.gif


 

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Old 08-28-2013, 05:42 AM
 
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May I ask why you would avoid vaccinated children?

We avoiding them and I doubt you would really understand.


 

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Old 08-28-2013, 07:38 AM
 
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We avoiding them and I doubt you would really understand.

Care to explain your reason for taking such a snarky attitude with me? I asked an honest question and I'm pretty sure I'm intelligent enough to understand the PP's reasoning.
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Old 08-28-2013, 09:18 AM
 
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Care to explain your reason for taking such a snarky attitude with me? I asked an honest question and I'm pretty sure I'm intelligent enough to understand the PP's reasoning.

it wasn't snarky at all.......actually I have posted other time the reasons and find most who vac simply do not understand and dismiss it all the time

 

freshly vaced children pose a real risk to many, immune compromised, cancer patients especially those going through chemo, etc - many groups are advised by physicians to avoid those who recently have been vacced   

 

we avoid those children as well because I have found IRL MOST are quite sickly shortly after their vaccination (in my area they are done in Dr offices and clinics) and they are exposed to others who are sick with colds and flu, etc and 9 out of 10 times- after each vaccine when the parent says they were "just fine" the next day or two they are sick with a "cold" and "fever" and it lasts for days

 

I have also known those who don't take extra precaution (IMO) when changing diaper of freshly vacced children and presto shortly there after they have mystery rash going around

 

having seen this IRL so many times, when we know someone has been vacced - we avoid them and in the general population we are not engaged in close personal contact like with a playdate with a child who has been vacced and yes at "flu" shot time, especially those who do the flu mist and certainly not those we hang out with  


 

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Old 08-28-2013, 09:31 AM
 
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it wasn't snarky at all.......actually I have posted other time the reasons and find most who vac simply do not understand and dismiss it all the time

 

freshly vaced children pose a real risk to many, immune compromised, cancer patients especially those going through chemo, etc - many groups are advised by physicians to avoid those who recently have been vacced   

 

we avoid those children as well because I have found IRL MOST are quite sickly shortly after their vaccination (in my area they are done in Dr offices and clinics) and they are exposed to others who are sick with colds and flu, etc and 9 out of 10 times- after each vaccine when the parent says they were "just fine" the next day or two they are sick with a "cold" and "fever" and it lasts for days

 

I have also known those who don't take extra precaution (IMO) when changing diaper of freshly vacced children and presto shortly there after they have mystery rash going around

 

having seen this IRL so many times, when we know someone has been vacced - we avoid them and in the general population we are not engaged in close personal contact like with a playdate with a child who has been vacced and yes at "flu" shot time, especially those who do the flu mist and certainly not those we hang out with  

I never knew any of this until I joined this site and read about it in various posts over the years. No doctor has ever told me to stay away from people, especially those who are immune compromised, right after my kid has gotten a vaccine. Isn't that scary? Shouldn't this be common knowledge? Shouldn't everyone know this? I always hear stories about people getting their kids vaxxed then they get sick shortly thereafter, then someone else in the family is sick. But, nooooo, couldn't be from the vaccine. It's total coincidence!!! ROTFLMAO.gif


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Old 08-28-2013, 10:33 AM
 
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The advice to stay away from recently vaccinated children if one is immunocomprimised only applies to live virus vaccines such as the MMR, Varicella and flumist. I do wonder how many doctors actually tell parents this when they give their child one of these however.


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Old 08-28-2013, 10:33 AM
 
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:38 AM
 
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The advice to stay away from recently vaccinated children if one is immunocomprimised only applies to live virus vaccines such as the MMR, Varicella and flumist. I do wonder how many doctors actually tell parents this when they give their child one of these however.

Happy to say that our Dr did mention this about varicella recently but, in the same visit, forgot to give me the VIS before I left (and I totally forgot to ask for it...kinda embarrassed to admit that.)
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:16 AM
 
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I never knew any of this until I joined this site and read about it in various posts over the years. No doctor has ever told me to stay away from people, especially those who are immune compromised, right after my kid has gotten a vaccine. Isn't that scary? Shouldn't this be common knowledge? Shouldn't everyone know this? I always hear stories about people getting their kids vaxxed then they get sick shortly thereafter, then someone else in the family is sick. But, nooooo, couldn't be from the vaccine. It's total coincidence!!! ROTFLMAO.gif

Until you deal with someone close to you with cancer (really depends on the type too) you don't have a clue and it doesn't seem to come form Ped or GP, it comes from those connect to the cancer patient (medical professionals they deal with)


 

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Old 08-28-2013, 11:18 AM
 
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The advice to stay away from recently vaccinated children if one is immunocomprimised only applies to live virus vaccines such as the MMR, Varicella and flumist. I do wonder how many doctors actually tell parents this when they give their child one of these however.

 

Yes, immunocompromised individuals should definately avoid people who have just had a live virus vaccine! Our doctors always mention it. Its also the reason why our family cannot have the flumist. To answer OP's question- I would definately want to know if a large number of people was un-vaxed (i.e., a whole school, church, or town), but individuals...I don't really think it is relelvant. The majority of un-vaxed kids in an enviroment mixed with mostly vaxed kids will experience 'herd immunity'. I wouldn't expect them to be infected with anything.


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Old 08-28-2013, 03:38 PM
 
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Yes, immunocompromised individuals should definately avoid people who have just had a l answer OP's question- I would definately want to know if a large number of people was un-vaxed (i.e., a whole school, church, or town), but individuals...I don't really think it is relelvant. The majority of un-vaxed kids in an enviroment mixed with mostly vaxed kids will experience 'herd immunity'. I wouldn't expect them to be infected with anything.

I agree with you that most un-vaxed kids would not be infected with anything serious. But I don't think herd immunity would happen except perhaps in a very small town, with few out-of-town visitors and even fewer residents who leave town, but in this day and age, where travel is the norm, I don't think it's possible, even in a mostly vaxed community.

You see, the vaccination rates are not and have not been enough for "herd immunity" ever since the vaccination schedule expanded in the 1980's.

Adults have not been getting boosters for the shots that they were told gave them lifetime immunity, like the MMR, and pertussis. Pertussis has mutated anyway, so no more herd immunity there (if there ever was, which is debatable, but not a black-and-white issue on either side). The rubella portion of the MMR is now said to be much less effective than originally claimed--which means it's not high enough to guarantee herd immunity. The flu shot has been shown to be ineffective.

And on top of that, children tend to be fairly active members of the community, going to churches (and church baby rooms) from an early age, going to playgrounds and shopping with their mamas. And adults in the community bring germs with them wherever they go, spreading them to the children.

I think a huge problem lies in the fact that we expect a germ-free environment, where children aren't "infected with anything," as you put it. And the truth is, we are usually infected with many germs, but we usually don't get sick with them.
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