a right to know - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

 86Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#61 of 97 Old 09-13-2015, 06:12 AM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 11,735
Mentioned: 208 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1830 Post(s)
No, no, it is only children who spread disease.

Except for flu. Adults who don't get the flu vaccine spread flu.

And then there is shingles. Adults who get shingles can infect people with chickenpox.

And then there is measles. Some of the people who caught and spread measles at Disneyland and elsewhere were vaccinated adults.

Oh, and whooping cough. Apparently adults can carry and spread whooping cough.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...)
Deborah is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#62 of 97 Old 09-14-2015, 07:20 AM
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 3,716
Mentioned: 389 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2425 Post(s)
Looks like OP deleted the post so I'm not sure how long the original was but I think the bracelet thing is silly.

I do like what Main is doing in allowing parents to check the immunization status at every school (without identifying individual students).

If it was something that was publicly available in my state it very well could influence which school I chose. Especially having a newborn in the house.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ~ Christopher Hitchens

I'm a mom to two great kids and a wife to an amazing husband
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I'm also proudly #teamvax
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
teacozy is online now  
#63 of 97 Old 09-14-2015, 09:19 AM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 11,735
Mentioned: 208 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1830 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
Looks like OP deleted the post so I'm not sure how long the original was but I think the bracelet thing is silly.

I do like what Main is doing in allowing parents to check the immunization status at every school (without identifying individual students).

If it was something that was publicly available in my state it very well could influence which school I chose. Especially having a newborn in the house.
Just understand that vaccination won't reduce the risk of whooping cough and you are good.
applejuice and SilverMoon010 like this.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...)
Deborah is online now  
#64 of 97 Old 09-14-2015, 10:00 AM
 
kathymuggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 6,714
Mentioned: 155 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1591 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
Looks like OP deleted the post so I'm not sure how long the original was but I think the bracelet thing is silly.

I do like what Main is doing in allowing parents to check the immunization status at every school (without identifying individual students).

If it was something that was publicly available in my state it very well could influence which school I chose. Especially having a newborn in the house.

I am torn on this.


In small school, even knowing percentages might enable people to figure out who is vaccinated. It might lead to misplaced speculation.


That being said, and in an ideal world...I do not mind you knowing the percentage of people who are unvaccinated in a school. I think it could give a false sense of security for a variety of reasons - but hey, your call.


That being said - pro-vaxxers must stop being UAV's as a whole, or I would fight this tooth and nail.


Having sensitive medical information is not a right, and I think the degree to which one is willing to share it is directly related to how responsibly they think the info will be handled.
applejuice likes this.

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

kathymuggle is online now  
#65 of 97 Old 09-14-2015, 10:31 AM
 
EMRguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: FEMA Zone 4
Posts: 1,563
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 602 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post

If it was something that was publicly available in my state it very well could influence which school I chose. Especially having a newborn in the house.
So you would pack up and move to a new school district based on vax rates?
applejuice and SilverMoon010 like this.
EMRguy is offline  
#66 of 97 Old 09-14-2015, 10:49 AM
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 3,716
Mentioned: 389 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2425 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
Just understand that vaccination won't reduce the risk of whooping cough and you are good.
Interestingly, I saw a meme/infographic about this recently (with sources) that shows that despite Colorado "only" having pertussis vaccination rates 19% lower than Mississippi, their rate of pertussis is 1,069 % higher than Mississippi.

These were the sources:

Vaccination rates in MS and CO - http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwr...cid=mm6341a1_w

Pertussis incidence rates for CO- https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/sit...group_2013.pdf

Pertussis incidence rates for MS - page 60 of this PDF- http://msdh.ms.gov/msdhsite/_static/resources/5752.pdf

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ~ Christopher Hitchens

I'm a mom to two great kids and a wife to an amazing husband
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I'm also proudly #teamvax
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
teacozy is online now  
#67 of 97 Old 09-14-2015, 11:40 AM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,663
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1143 Post(s)
I remember that pro-coercion meme. It represents a foolish, manipulative, and reductionistic use of statistics, so it's only fair to put that data in context.

Here is a ranking of pertussis cases in the U.S. for a two-year period. http://www.americashealthrankings.org/WV/pertussis

If you want to have some really nerdy fun, look at different states and compare the vaccine uptake rate with the incidence rate for pertussis.

Note that the two states with the fewest cases, California and Louisiana, both have (or had at the time) philosophical exemptions.

Don't quote me on this until I find a link, but I recall reading that cooler climates are more vulnerable to pertussis outbreaks than warmer ones, so it's interesting to see that the states with the fewest tend to be in warmer climates.

Breaking this "rule" are states like New Mexico, Utah, and North Carolina, which have extremely high vaccine compliance rates and yet had high rates of pertussis.
applejuice likes this.

"A child who is protected from all controversial ideas is as vulnerable as a child who is protected from every germ. The infection, when it comes- and it will come- may overwhelm the system, be it the immune system or the belief system." — Jane Smiley

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines.” - Marcia Angell, M.D., former NEJM Editor

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Private Parts are Private Property!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Turquesa is offline  
#68 of 97 Old 09-14-2015, 11:56 AM
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 3,716
Mentioned: 389 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2425 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post
If you want to have some really nerdy fun, look at different states and compare the vaccine uptake rate with the incidence rate for pertussis.
Umm... exactly.

Your frist link says "Median local requirement for DTaP vaccination coverage was 95.0% (range = 80.9% in Colorado to ≥99.7% in Mississippi)"

Your second link ranks the states from 1 to 50 by the number of new cases of pertussis per 100,000 population with the lowest being at the top. Colorado is ranked 38 while Mississippi is ranked 3.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ~ Christopher Hitchens

I'm a mom to two great kids and a wife to an amazing husband
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I'm also proudly #teamvax
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
teacozy is online now  
#69 of 97 Old 09-14-2015, 01:50 PM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 11,735
Mentioned: 208 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1830 Post(s)
Two states do not a case make, actually.

The mess with pertussis ALWAYS has to do with rates of diagnosis.

Betcha doctors in Colorado have been pushed the last few years to diagnose pertussis, especially in the unvaxed.

On the other hand, I'll equally bet that doctors in Mississippi rarely "see" pertussis, both because it is a warm state and because it is a highly vaxed one, so they just "assume" that whatever that cough might be, it isn't pertussis.

If every child was tested for every cold, then we might have an accurate picture. But that would be fairly invasive.
applejuice and Turquesa like this.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...)
Deborah is online now  
#70 of 97 Old 09-14-2015, 01:53 PM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,663
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1143 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
Umm... exactly.

Your frist link says "Median local requirement for DTaP vaccination coverage was 95.0% (range = 80.9% in Colorado to ≥99.7% in Mississippi)"

Your second link ranks the states from 1 to 50 by the number of new cases of pertussis per 100,000 population with the lowest being at the top. Colorado is ranked 38 while Mississippi is ranked 3.
I don't think you get my point. Focusing on MS and CO is statistical extrapolation.

I could just as easily say, "Hey! Look at the chart! Louisiana has philosophical exemptions and the lowest number of pertussis cases in the country. Montana has a narrow religious exemption and ranks a whopping 41."
applejuice likes this.

"A child who is protected from all controversial ideas is as vulnerable as a child who is protected from every germ. The infection, when it comes- and it will come- may overwhelm the system, be it the immune system or the belief system." — Jane Smiley

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines.” - Marcia Angell, M.D., former NEJM Editor

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Private Parts are Private Property!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Turquesa is offline  
#71 of 97 Old 09-14-2015, 01:55 PM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 11,735
Mentioned: 208 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1830 Post(s)
Yes, the point is that hot climates mean less pertussis. Cold climates mean more pertussis.

Nothing to do with vaccination rates.
applejuice likes this.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...)
Deborah is online now  
#72 of 97 Old 09-14-2015, 02:04 PM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,663
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1143 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
Yes, the point is that hot climates mean less pertussis. Cold climates mean more pertussis.

Nothing to do with vaccination rates.
I could have sworn that I read something about it, but nothing is a fact until I have evidence in my hot little hands . . . .
applejuice and Deborah like this.

"A child who is protected from all controversial ideas is as vulnerable as a child who is protected from every germ. The infection, when it comes- and it will come- may overwhelm the system, be it the immune system or the belief system." — Jane Smiley

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines.” - Marcia Angell, M.D., former NEJM Editor

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Private Parts are Private Property!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Turquesa is offline  
#73 of 97 Old 09-14-2015, 05:57 PM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 11,735
Mentioned: 208 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1830 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post
I could have sworn that I read something about it, but nothing is a fact until I have evidence in my hot little hands . . . .
I did some searching around and I don't think there is a climate link. However, I did find an article about this study http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/2...gs-study-finds

which can be summed up as saying that vaccinated siblings will give your baby whooping cough so get vaxed during pregnancy. Of course that isn't the message that WANT to get across.

I'm still going to go with the Mississippi doctors are not diagnosing and the Colorado doctors are diagnosing.
applejuice likes this.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...)
Deborah is online now  
#74 of 97 Old 09-16-2015, 04:16 PM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 11,735
Mentioned: 208 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1830 Post(s)
Two states with similar climates.

Idaho is being called out for having the LOWEST vaccination rates http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/hbo/2...ease-outbreak/ and South Dakota being praised for the HIGHEST. http://listen.sdpb.org/post/sd-vacci...ation#stream/0
On the ranking list South Dakota is at 21 with 8.5 cases per 100,000 and Idaho is at 29 with 14.8 which is worse, but not nearly the split you would expect between the best and worst states on vaccination rates. http://www.americashealthrankings.org/WV/pertussis
applejuice and EMRguy like this.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...)
Deborah is online now  
#75 of 97 Old 09-17-2015, 08:24 AM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,663
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1143 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
Two states with similar climates.

Idaho is being called out for having the LOWEST vaccination rates http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/hbo/2...ease-outbreak/ and South Dakota being praised for the HIGHEST. http://listen.sdpb.org/post/sd-vacci...ation#stream/0
On the ranking list South Dakota is at 21 with 8.5 cases per 100,000 and Idaho is at 29 with 14.8 which is worse, but not nearly the split you would expect between the best and worst states on vaccination rates. http://www.americashealthrankings.org/WV/pertussis
Thanks. This is one example of the kind of analyses I was hoping to see of those links. Singling out only two states to make a political point is misleading and dishonest when the broader trends tell a different story.
applejuice and Deborah like this.

"A child who is protected from all controversial ideas is as vulnerable as a child who is protected from every germ. The infection, when it comes- and it will come- may overwhelm the system, be it the immune system or the belief system." — Jane Smiley

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines.” - Marcia Angell, M.D., former NEJM Editor

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Private Parts are Private Property!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Turquesa is offline  
#76 of 97 Old 09-17-2015, 06:08 PM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 11,735
Mentioned: 208 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1830 Post(s)
I don't think it is the sort of analysis that the pro-vaccine want to see. Their approach is more of the Keep It Simple Stupid model, in my opinion.
applejuice and SilverMoon010 like this.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...)
Deborah is online now  
#77 of 97 Old 09-18-2015, 07:23 AM
 
SilverMoon010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,420
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 694 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
Bumping up an old thread because--

drum roll--

a pro-vaccine parent has actually begun a line of bracelets for vaccinated children to wear so that their parents can make sure that their kids are only associating with other GOOD children. Not bad, dirty, unvaxed, disease-spreading--you get the concept.

It only took a couple of years to begin in the real world.
No kidding! That's right. We surely won't be hearing from our OP lulu anymore because she's too busy with her neon green bracelet biz! Lkke I said in the other thread about the bracelet, they can shove them up their arse.
SilverMoon010 is offline  
#78 of 97 Old 09-18-2015, 07:54 AM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,663
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1143 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverMoon010 View Post
No kidding! That's right. We surely won't be hearing from our OP lulu anymore because she's too busy with her neon green bracelet biz! Lkke I said in the other thread about the bracelet, they can shove them up their arse.
I really don't thing her idea will catch on, save for a handful of sanctimommies and sacti-daddies. I have faith that there's a sane remnant of vaccinating parents who will find the idea as crazy as @teacozy does.

"A child who is protected from all controversial ideas is as vulnerable as a child who is protected from every germ. The infection, when it comes- and it will come- may overwhelm the system, be it the immune system or the belief system." — Jane Smiley

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines.” - Marcia Angell, M.D., former NEJM Editor

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Private Parts are Private Property!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Turquesa is offline  
#79 of 97 Old 09-18-2015, 08:21 AM
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 3,716
Mentioned: 389 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2425 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
Two states with similar climates.

Idaho is being called out for having the LOWEST vaccination rates http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/hbo/2...ease-outbreak/ and South Dakota being praised for the HIGHEST. http://listen.sdpb.org/post/sd-vacci...ation#stream/0
On the ranking list South Dakota is at 21 with 8.5 cases per 100,000 and Idaho is at 29 with 14.8 which is worse, but not nearly the split you would expect between the best and worst states on vaccination rates. http://www.americashealthrankings.org/WV/pertussis
Your link didn't specify Dtap.

On the link both I and @Turquesa shared, it states that the Dtap uptake for Idaho is 88%. The Dtap uptake for South Dakota is 96.7%. So less than 10 percent difference. Yet, the rate of pertussis in Idaho is almost double that of South Dakota, 8.5/100,000 vs 14.8/100,000.

Yes, there are some places where it doesn't line up (ie lower exemption than X state but higher pertussis) which is probably due to a variety of reasons like possibly state X has less "clusters" with unvaccinated kids being spread out more evenly etc.

In any case, studies have shown that areas with higher exemption rates do have higher incidences of pertussis.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ~ Christopher Hitchens

I'm a mom to two great kids and a wife to an amazing husband
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I'm also proudly #teamvax
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by teacozy; 09-18-2015 at 08:54 AM.
teacozy is online now  
#80 of 97 Old 09-18-2015, 08:55 AM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,663
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1143 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
Your link didn't specify Dtap.

On the link both I and @Turquesa shared, it states that the Dtap uptake for Idaho is 88%. The Dtap uptake for South Dakota is 96.7%. So less than 10 percent difference. Yet, the rate of pertussis in Idaho is almost double that of South Dakota, 8.5/100,000 vs 14.8/100,000.

In any case, studies have shown that areas with higher exemption rates do have higher incidences of pertussis.
Ironically, your link didn't specify DTaP. That study shows correlation, not cause, and does not control for which vaccines were being exempted.

Remember that California PBE's allow for selective vaccination. Exemption =/= exempted from pertussis vaccination every time.
applejuice likes this.

"A child who is protected from all controversial ideas is as vulnerable as a child who is protected from every germ. The infection, when it comes- and it will come- may overwhelm the system, be it the immune system or the belief system." — Jane Smiley

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines.” - Marcia Angell, M.D., former NEJM Editor

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Private Parts are Private Property!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Turquesa is offline  
#81 of 97 Old 09-18-2015, 09:08 AM
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 3,716
Mentioned: 389 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2425 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post
Ironically, your link didn't specify DTaP. That study shows correlation, not cause, and does not control for which vaccines were being exempted.

Remember that California PBE's allow for selective vaccination. Exemption =/= exempted from pertussis vaccination every time.
Yes it does. Table 1.

Another study showing that exemption clusters are more likely to be in pertussis clusters. This has been observed in multiple studies and in multiple states and in multiple different outbreaks.

"Census tracts in exemptions clusters were more likely to be in pertussis clusters (odds ratio = 3.0, 95% confidence interval: 2.5, 3.6). The overlap of exemptions clusters and pertussis clusters remained significant after adjustment for population density, proportion of racial/ethnic minorities, proportion of children aged 5 years or younger, percentage of persons below the poverty level, and average family size (odds ratio = 2.7, 95% confidence interval: 2.2, 3.3). Geographic pockets of vaccine exemptors pose a risk to the whole community. In addition to monitoring state-level exemption rates, health authorities should be mindful of within-state heterogeneity."

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ~ Christopher Hitchens

I'm a mom to two great kids and a wife to an amazing husband
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I'm also proudly #teamvax
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
teacozy is online now  
#82 of 97 Old 09-18-2015, 09:37 AM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,663
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1143 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
Yes it does. Table 1.

Another study showing that exemption clusters are more likely to be in pertussis clusters. This has been observed in multiple studies and in multiple states and in multiple different outbreaks.

"Census tracts in exemptions clusters were more likely to be in pertussis clusters (odds ratio = 3.0, 95% confidence interval: 2.5, 3.6). The overlap of exemptions clusters and pertussis clusters remained significant after adjustment for population density, proportion of racial/ethnic minorities, proportion of children aged 5 years or younger, percentage of persons below the poverty level, and average family size (odds ratio = 2.7, 95% confidence interval: 2.2, 3.3). Geographic pockets of vaccine exemptors pose a risk to the whole community. In addition to monitoring state-level exemption rates, health authorities should be mindful of within-state heterogeneity."
'Fraid not. From the California study:

Quote:
This analysis is subject to several limitations. NME data from California do not contain specific data on which vaccine(s) or doses(s) were not received by a child with a NME, and it is possible that some children a NME were completely vaccinated against pertussis. Further studies should attempt to analyze varying rates of vaccine avoidance for specific antigens to determine the magnitude of impact within populations of high NMEs.
If better research proves their hypothesis true, then it means that we need a better pertussis vaccine.

Vaccine enthusiast/coercionist "logic" holds that when the product isn't working well, you don't blame the manufacturers; you just shift the blame to the people not using the product. That's the mentality that I aim to challenge.

"A child who is protected from all controversial ideas is as vulnerable as a child who is protected from every germ. The infection, when it comes- and it will come- may overwhelm the system, be it the immune system or the belief system." — Jane Smiley

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines.” - Marcia Angell, M.D., former NEJM Editor

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Private Parts are Private Property!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Turquesa; 09-18-2015 at 05:41 PM. Reason: grammar
Turquesa is offline  
#83 of 97 Old 09-18-2015, 09:43 AM
 
SilverMoon010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,420
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 694 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post

Vaccine enthusiast/coercionist "logic" entails that when the product isn't working well, you don't blame the manufacturers; you just shift the blame to the people not using the product. That's the mentality that I aim to challenge.
Yes. Part of the general vaccine entusiast logic also includes the support to add yet even MORE boosters if the product isn't working well rather than question the product itself.
applejuice likes this.
SilverMoon010 is offline  
#84 of 97 Old 09-18-2015, 09:43 AM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,663
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1143 Post(s)
Your second study uses logistic regression to determine the exemption/pertussis exemption overlap. But health departments can indeed provide that data.

As detailed here, your authors, unlike the folks at RTAVM who shared the Mississippi-Colorado meme, are fortunately not full-on vaccine coercionists. Although I know from their other work that they favor "soft" coercion like forcing parents into doctors' offices in order to intimidate them out of exercising their rights.

"A child who is protected from all controversial ideas is as vulnerable as a child who is protected from every germ. The infection, when it comes- and it will come- may overwhelm the system, be it the immune system or the belief system." — Jane Smiley

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines.” - Marcia Angell, M.D., former NEJM Editor

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Private Parts are Private Property!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Turquesa is offline  
#85 of 97 Old 09-18-2015, 09:54 AM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 11,735
Mentioned: 208 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1830 Post(s)
Plus, as I regularly point out, unless EVERY single person with cold symptoms is tested for pertussis (even people who don't go to the doctor), there is no way to know how many cases of pertussis are being missed.

Assuming that most cases of pertussis are accurately identified and that there is no bias on testing by doctors (who I strongly suspect are much more likely to test in the unvaxed) is not science at all. I'd call it wishful thinking.

Note, for example, that the rate of pertussis began to shoot up in the US in the years before an adult version of the vaccine was released. This was, I suspect, because doctors were being told that there was really a lot of pertussis in teens and adults, that there was a need for an adult vaccination and that doctors should start testing for pertussis in teens and adults. Surprise, it turned out that there was a lot of pertussis in teens and adults. Not a surprise, most of it had probably been there for years, but missed.

For example, when someone I know had a baby in 1999 and declined vaccinations, they were told that there was a pertussis epidemic and their baby was at risk of dying. They asked: "Who has pertussis?" They were told: "there are 30 cases in teenagers". So, they kept the baby away from coughing teenagers.
applejuice likes this.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...)
Deborah is online now  
#86 of 97 Old 09-18-2015, 09:59 AM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 11,735
Mentioned: 208 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1830 Post(s)
http://www.cdc.gov/pertussis/surv-reporting.html

Quote:
Although many pertussis cases are not diagnosed and therefore not reported, the surveillance system is useful for monitoring epidemiologic trends. The limitations of laboratory diagnostics make the clinical case definition essential to pertussis surveillance.
Clinical case definition means "doctor's judgment" which means that missing cases in the vaxed and overdiagnosing in the unvaxed is probably very common.
applejuice likes this.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...)
Deborah is online now  
#87 of 97 Old 09-18-2015, 10:08 AM
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 3,716
Mentioned: 389 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2425 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post
From the California study:

[I]

Vaccine enthusiast/coercionist "logic" entails that when the product isn't working well, you don't blame the manufacturers; you just shift the blame to the people not using the product. That's the mentality that I aim to challenge.
The vaccine is about 60% effective. Even in cases where it doesn't completely protect a child, it still significantly reduces the risk of developing severe illness , reduces the risk of hospitalization, and greatly reduces the duration of coughing. The vaccine is absolutely worth it and certainly better than nothing at all.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” ~ Christopher Hitchens

I'm a mom to two great kids and a wife to an amazing husband
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I'm also proudly #teamvax
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
teacozy is online now  
#88 of 97 Old 09-18-2015, 10:25 AM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 11,735
Mentioned: 208 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1830 Post(s)
The alternative is not nothing at all.

Speaking as someone who had pertussis as a child (asymptomatic) and have had close to 60 years of immunity as a result, I'd hate to have been screwed over by that vaccine and face multiple repeats of pertussis.

I know some unvaxed kids who had pertussis. It was a nuisance, no more, and now they have long-term immunity.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...)
Deborah is online now  
#89 of 97 Old 09-18-2015, 11:32 AM
 
SilverMoon010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,420
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 694 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
The alternative is not nothing at all.

Speaking as someone who had pertussis as a child (asymptomatic) and have had close to 60 years of immunity as a result, I'd hate to have been screwed over by that vaccine and face multiple repeats of pertussis.

I know some unvaxed kids who had pertussis. It was a nuisance, no more, and now they have long-term immunity.
I wish "love" was an option because I LOVE this post
Mirzam, applejuice and Deborah like this.
SilverMoon010 is offline  
#90 of 97 Old 09-18-2015, 11:36 AM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 11,735
Mentioned: 208 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1830 Post(s)
Yeah, I've looked into pre-vaccine articles on pertussis.

It was taken for granted that no one would have pertussis between age 15 and somewhere between 60 and 80 years of age. Which also meant that people between 15 and 60 weren't carrying or transmitting pertussis.
Mirzam and applejuice like this.

vaccine injury is preventable
prevent it
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(if the government still allows you to say no...)
Deborah is online now  
Reply

Tags
Vaccinations


User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Online Users: 16,324

94 members and 16,230 guests
1babysmom , 3tammuz , AlmostJenny , AMG , annbe , azohri , bananabee , bluefaery , boron , camillabien , captain optimism , chachamama , CricketVS , Daffodil , Dakotacakes , Dear_Rosemary , Deborah , delarosa , easydoesit , elliha , emmy526 , greenemami , happyhats , happymamasallie , hillymum , ian'smommaya , iceface , Iron Princess , IsaFrench , ismewilde , Jessica765 , K703 , Kappacino , kathymuggle , Kelleybug , lab , lizpacmeow , LLM21 , lucky3nyc , mama24-7 , MamadeRumi , Marcimama , Maria Pacheco , MasiyM , mckittre , MFarmerBrown , Milk8shake , missmason , mnj77 , Monica Newton , moominmamma , Mummoth , mumto1 , Mylie , MylittleTiger , NaturallyKait , nemodori2084 , newlypregnant , newmamalizzy , PitBullMom , pokeyac , rabbitmomma , RollerCoasterMama , rubelin , SandiMae , sarafl , SchoolmarmDE , sciencemum , scsigrl , serenbat , shanna-cat , shantimama , Shmootzi , shoeg8rl , siennaflower , Springshowers , stephalittle , SweetSilver , t2009 , teacozy , TheAgentKaye , typebug , VsAngela , zebra15 , zoeyzoo
Most users ever online was 449,755, 06-25-2014 at 12:21 PM.