Have you all seen the Rob Schneider video? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 47 Old 09-09-2013, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S1-LgYyjQg

 

I am sure many non-vaxers are applauding this video, but I was curious how mindful vaccinators feel about it. Autistm debate aside, does this seem like the best way to go about getting compensation for families who had children suffer and/or die as a direct result of vaccination? Or is it completely "anti-vax" biased? 

 

I knew some of this before the video- I know about the compensation program and special master, and that the payouts are funded by the taxpayers, but I didn't know the HHS owned patents on vaccines.

 

Discuss. 


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#2 of 47 Old 09-09-2013, 05:30 PM
 
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A few site have been saying things like  "court cases=/= science."  I have 2 issues with this type of statement:

 

1.  I, and others, have been called conspiracy theorists because we question Big Pharm, Government (some of us ;) ) and the scientists who work for them.  Well, hmmm, I guess people who question court rulings are also conspiracy theorists because they are not blindly accepting the judicial process where vaccines are concerned.

 

2.  Well, if you will not accept court rulings because you think they are judicial instead of scientific - where, exactly, does that leave us?  We are, not surprisingly, at an impasse.  

 

parental observations?  Does not count.

 

vaccine inserts?  They list everything - they do not count.

 

court cases?  Do not count.

 

individual studies?  Do not count (this one goes both ways, however)

 

I am feeling cynical.  We will never sort this out.  People have different beliefs about health, risks, ethics and parental roles - and either vaccines fit into your beliefs or they don't.

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#3 of 47 Old 09-10-2013, 05:35 AM
 
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A few site have been saying things like  "court cases=/= science."  I have 2 issues with this type of statement:

1.  I, and others, have been called conspiracy theorists because we question Big Pharm, Government (some of us wink1.gif ) and the scientists who work for them.  Well, hmmm, I guess people who question court rulings are also conspiracy theorists because they are not blindly accepting the judicial process where vaccines are concerned.

2.  Well, if you will not accept court rulings because you think they are judicial instead of scientific - where, exactly, does that leave us?  We are, not surprisingly, at an impasse.  

parental observations?  Does not count.

vaccine inserts?  They list everything - they do not count.

court cases?  Do not count.

individual studies?  Do not count (this one goes both ways, however)

I am feeling cynical.  We will never sort this out.  People have different beliefs about health, risks, ethics and parental roles - and either vaccines fit into your beliefs or they don't.

Pers addressed this in another thread.

"It is not a conspiracy theory to acknowledge that sometimes courts get it wrong. Our judicial system is even set up to try and compensate for erroneous rulings with higher courts and appeals. I am not aware of anyone who believes it to be absolutely perfect or infallible.

Conspiracy theories generally revolve around the idea that something is deliberately being covered up. Believing that the court knew full well that vaccines had nothing to do with her condition and deliberately gave a dishonest ruling for whatever reason could be a conspiracy theory. Believing that the court gave the ruling it felt was just and true but questioning or disagreeing with the conclusion they reached is not a conspiracy theory. "

Court rulings are NOT science. It's a fact not a conspiracy. The Italian court charged three scientists for not being able to predict an earthquake, which is currently impossible to do.
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#4 of 47 Old 09-10-2013, 07:07 AM
 
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The film Hot Coffee is relevant here. It shows how Tort Reform really exists to protect corporations. 2/3 cases that go before Vax Court are decided in DOJ's favor.

I think the video is brilliant. Most people don't understand how Vax Court works! Deuce Bigilo, I never knew ye!
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#5 of 47 Old 09-10-2013, 07:09 AM
 
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Oh & it turns out 'conspiracy theory' is a term intentionally circulated back in the day by the Gov to invalidate criticism of the Warren Report. I don't use it, I don't acknowledge it, & I urge those who do to research the real history of the trope which approaches, IMO, @ times, a slur.
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Pers addressed this in another thread.

"It is not a conspiracy theory to acknowledge that sometimes courts get it wrong. Our judicial system is even set up to try and compensate for erroneous rulings with higher courts and appeals. I am not aware of anyone who believes it to be absolutely perfect or infallible.

It is not a conspiracy theory to acknowledged that sometimes scientists/Big pharm or government gets it wrong.  Our system is even set up to try and compensate for injuries through vaccine court.  Sadly, I am aware of several people online who allow no room for questioning or it loops around to "you are a conspiracy theorist"
...The Italian court charged three scientists for not being able to predict an earthquake, which is currently impossible to do.
Good grief.  Italy is not the only country that has compensated individuals for autism or "autism-like" conditions after vaccination.  Hannah Poling, American, is another  Here are some links - if doubt they are everyone cup of tea  - but it would be easy to look into on your own if you are interested.
While not specifically on autism, here is a list of cases compensated for vaccine damage, straight from the VICP.   (I suppose these are all wrong too, or are they only wrong when the autism word is mentioned? )
 
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#7 of 47 Old 09-10-2013, 07:56 AM
 
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Oh & it turns out 'conspiracy theory' is a term intentionally circulated back in the day by the Gov to invalidate criticism of the Warren Report. I don't use it, I don't acknowledge it, & I urge those who do to research the real history of the trope which approaches, IMO, @ times, a slur.

 

You are very zen.

 

I just think it is quite funny some throw out the word conspiracy theorist for years for questioning vaccines, while they themselves are questioning the judicial process.

 

Of course, they were wrong to equate questioning of vaccines to conspiracy theorists, and they are not conspiracy theorists to question judicial decisions.

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#8 of 47 Old 09-10-2013, 08:12 AM
 
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You are very zen.

I just think it quite funny they throw out the word conspiracy theorist for years for questioning vaccines, while they themselves are questioning the judicial process.

Of course, they were wrong to equate questioning of vaccines to conspiracy theorists, and they are not conspiracy theorists to question judicial decisions.

Again, disagreeing in something does not make you a conspiracy theorist in and of itself. I can disagree with a recent court ruling of a 30 day prison sentence of a certain teacher who raped a teenager who then killed herself without believing there was some sort of secret payoff.

Believing that the government/scientists/pharma companies/vaccine companies are falsifying data or not releasing information that vaccines are more dangerous than they let on to the public is not the same thing as disagreeing with a governments policy on immigration. One is a conspiracy theory the other is a disagreement.

Just a 15 second google search had this little gem from naturalnews that illustrates my point.

" Anyway, in his article, it was pointed out that under the Freedom of Information Act filed by a doctor (imagine that, a hooker with a conscience) revealed 30 years of secret official documents showing that government experts have known that vaccines do not work, that they cause the diseases they are supposed to prevent, that they are a hazard to kids, that these government "experts" colluded to lie to the public, worked to prevent safety studies, and these are the same vaccines that are mandated to the kids in the U.S.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/040402_vaccines_cover-up_medical_myths.html#ixzz2eVF4y7F4"

Again that was just the first link I clicked.
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#9 of 47 Old 09-10-2013, 08:30 AM
 
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Again, disagreeing in something does not make you a conspiracy theorist in and of itself. I can disagree with a recent court ruling of a 30 day prison sentence of a certain teacher who raped a teenager who then killed herself without believing there was some sort of secret payoff.

Believing that the government/scientists/pharma companies/vaccine companies are falsifying data or not releasing information that vaccines are more dangerous than they let on to the public is not the same thing as disagreeing with a governments policy on immigration. One is a conspiracy theory the other is a disagreement.

 

Is it still a conspiracy theory if you have decent proof for it?  

 

In any event - I have seen things I would label "conspiracy theorist" on the vax forums from time to time. About 5% of the time someone says "conspiracy theorist"on the debate forum I agree with them. Another 5% is a gray zone - maybe it is a touch conspiracy, or maybe not.   The other 90% of the time I think they are either:

 

1.  Out to lunch.  Logic fail.  Do not understand what the term "conspiracy theorist" means.  Has drunk the wanna-be skeptical kool-aid and really believes questioning vaccines=conspiracy theorist.  

 

2.  Know full well the person is not making a conspiracy theory statement - but being a UAV is fun  (trollolololo….), they are ticked off and not posting rationally,  or, more likely, they really do believe vaccines are the Savior of mankind, and as such smear campaigns are acceptable if they cause undecided parents to lean your way.  The means justifies the end  at all that.  

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#10 of 47 Old 09-10-2013, 09:00 AM
 
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Is it still a conspiracy theory if you have decent proof for it?  
In any event - I have seen things I would label "conspiracy theorist" on the vax forums from time to time. About 5% of the time someone says "conspiracy theorist"on the debate forum I agree with them. Another 5% is a gray zone - maybe it is a touch conspiracy, or maybe not.   The other 90% of the time I think they are either:

1.  Out to lunch.  Logic fail.  Do not understand what the term "conspiracy theorist" means.  Has drunk the wanna-be skeptical kool-aid and really believes questioning vaccines=conspiracy theorist.  

2.  Know full well the person is not making a conspiracy theory statement - but being a UAV is fun  (trollolololo….), they are ticked off and not posting rationally,  or, more likely, they really do believe vaccines are the Savior of mankind, and as such smear campaigns are acceptable if they cause undecided parents to lean your way.  The means justifies the end  at all that.  

Depends on what the "proof" is. Of course every conspiracy theorists believe they have proof.

From 9/11 truthers, to holocaust deniers, to people who believe Tupac faked his own death, to those who believe we never landed on the moon etc.

They all believe they have proof.

Conspiracy theory definition:

"
conspiracy theory
noun
1.
a theory that explains an event as being the result of a plot by a covert group or organization; a belief that a particular unexplained event was caused by such a group.
2.
the idea that many important political events or economic and social trends are the products of secret plots that are largely unknown to the general public."

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#11 of 47 Old 09-10-2013, 09:14 AM
 
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Depends on what the "proof" is. Of course every conspiracy theorists believe they have proof.

From 9/11 truthers, to holocaust deniers, to people who believe Tupac faked his own death, to those who believe we never landed on the moon etc.

They all believe they have proof.

Conspiracy theory definition:

"
conspiracy theory
noun
1.
a theory that explains an event as being the result of a plot by a covert group or organization; a belief that a particular unexplained event was caused by such a group.
2.
the idea that many important political events or economic and social trends are the products of secret plots that are largely unknown to the general public."

 

I noticed you ignored the rest of my post 

:wink

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#12 of 47 Old 09-10-2013, 09:16 AM
 
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If interested in the pro-vaccine opinion of this I will give it.

 

What do I think of the video?  I think it is a diatribe from a comedienne who believes that vaccines are a conspiracy.  I think it is the work of a comedic actor who has went so far as to compare vaccine legislation that requires parents consult with a doctor to get vaccine exemptions to the Nuremberg principals!   So I pretty much discount his entire opinion because Rob Schneider's opinions have no bearing on anything in my view.  And I hope that they have very little impact on anyone because the views of a comedian really should not influence medical decisions.  My reasons are as follows:

 

1,) Rob Schneider's expertise in Autism:  None he has not studied Autism, he has no background in Neurology, child development, medicine or anything that relates to Autism research for its etiology nor its treatment

 

2.)  Rob Schneider's expertise in Vaccines:  None.  He has no training in medicine, immunology, epidemiology or anything else related to Vaccines.

 

3.)  Rob Schneider's expertise in toxicology= None.  He has not raining in chemistry, toxicology or other fields that would be able to lend credence to his believe that vaccines are poisoning people

 

4.)  Rob Schneider's legal expertise- None.  Rob Schneider is not a judge, nor an attorney and has not training in being able to analyze legal ramifications of the vaccine injury statute nor the truth of what would happen if there was no vaccine injury excited.  The fact is a discussion of this nature cannot be scrawled on a notepad and posted in a 5 minute youtube video because it is WAY WAY WAY more complex than that.

 

Rob Schneider has no impact on my views because he doesn't have any background in what he is talking about.  If I want to understand the impact of different forms of tort reform and comparisons of different methods of court proceedings under general liability lawsuits versus the vaccine injury compensation act, I will stick to those training in legal proceedings.  If I want to better understand the etiology of Autism I will follow those who are actually studying the etiology of Autism beyond the "it's increasing".  If I want to study more on vaccines I will pay attention to chemists, physicians and bio researchers.

 

Correspondingly, If I wanted to know more about the making of Deuce Biggalo male Gigalo or the behind the scenes happening of Saturday Night Life, I would go to Rob Schneider over Attorneys, doctors and others without any background in those entertainment genres.

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#13 of 47 Old 09-10-2013, 09:17 AM
 
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nm.  I was rude.  I should not let this forum get to me.  
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#14 of 47 Old 09-10-2013, 09:22 AM
 
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I noticed you ignored the rest of my post 
winky.gif

???

You only asked me one question in that post and I answered it.

The rest of your post was about your own personal observation in vaccine forums.

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If interested in the pro-vaccine opinion of this I will give it.

 

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say it was your opinion of this video?

 

What do I think of the video?  I think it is a diatribe from a comedienne who believes that vaccines are a conspiracy.  I think it is the work of a comedic actor who has went so far as to compare vaccine legislation that requires parents consult with a doctor to get vaccine exemptions to the Nuremberg principals!   So I pretty much discount his entire opinion because Rob Schneider's opinions have no bearing on anything in my view.  And I hope that they have very little impact on anyone because the views of a comedian really should not influence medical decisions.  My reasons are as follows:

 

Rob Schneider was merely the narrator of the video, so it was not his opinion, it was the opinion of the producers, the Canary Party. I doubt Rob Schneider thinks "vaccines are a conspiracy", I am not sure who does, last I looked, vaccines are very real.

 

1,) Rob Schneider's expertise in Autism:  None he has not studied Autism, he has no background in Neurology, child development, medicine or anything that relates to Autism research for its etiology nor its treatment

 

2.)  Rob Schneider's expertise in Vaccines:  None.  He has no training in medicine, immunology, epidemiology or anything else related to Vaccines.

 

3.)  Rob Schneider's expertise in toxicology= None.  He has not raining in chemistry, toxicology or other fields that would be able to lend credence to his believe that vaccines are poisoning people

 

4.)  Rob Schneider's legal expertise- None.  Rob Schneider is not a judge, nor an attorney and has not training in being able to analyze legal ramifications of the vaccine injury statute nor the truth of what would happen if there was no vaccine injury excited.  The fact is a discussion of this nature cannot be scrawled on a notepad and posted in a 5 minute youtube video because it is WAY WAY WAY more complex than that.

 

Rob Schneider has no impact on my views because he doesn't have any background in what he is talking about.  If I want to understand the impact of different forms of tort reform and comparisons of different methods of court proceedings under general liability lawsuits versus the vaccine injury compensation act, I will stick to those training in legal proceedings.  If I want to better understand the etiology of Autism I will follow those who are actually studying the etiology of Autism beyond the "it's increasing".  If I want to study more on vaccines I will pay attention to chemists, physicians and bio researchers.

 

Correspondingly, If I wanted to know more about the making of Deuce Biggalo male Gigalo or the behind the scenes happening of Saturday Night Life, I would go to Rob Schneider over Attorneys, doctors and others without any background in those entertainment genres.

 

You have fallen into the classic "skeptic" trap of ad hominem attack, you did not address the issues brought up in the video at all. This is what the OP was asking for not an attack on Rob Schneider the person. 

 

:2whistle


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conspiracy theory
noun
1.
a theory that explains an event as being the result of a plot by a covert group or organization; a belief that a particular unexplained event was caused by such a group.
2.
the idea that many important political events or economic and social trends are the products of secret plots that are largely unknown to the general public."

Do you honestly believe conspiracies have never happened before? Or, they just don't happen within "civilized" countries?

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#17 of 47 Old 09-10-2013, 09:33 AM
 
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 You have fallen into the classic "skeptic" trap of ad hominem attack, you did not address the issues brought up in the video at all. This is what the OP was asking for not an attack on Rob Schneider the person. 

Thanks for saying this!!

The content of the video is important. It could have been narrated by Big Bird for all I care!

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#18 of 47 Old 09-10-2013, 09:33 AM
 
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A tweet from Rob Scheider

" Vaccine Cover-Up! Every parent needs to read! http://t.co/6RVn8Jz9"

Another :

" http://t.co/oVBJK1XU 'CENTER FOR DISEASE' VACCINE COVER-UP!"

The definition of a conspiracy theory.

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#19 of 47 Old 09-10-2013, 09:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
 

A tweet from Rob Scheider

" Vaccine Cover-Up! Every parent needs to read! http://t.co/6RVn8Jz9"

Another :

" http://t.co/oVBJK1XU 'CENTER FOR DISEASE' VACCINE COVER-UP!"

The definition of a conspiracy theory.

 

So what. Do you really think the goverment is pristine and above reproach, and has never engaged in conspiracies? Gulf of Tonkin.

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#20 of 47 Old 09-10-2013, 09:43 AM
 
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Thanks for saying this!!

The content of the video is important. It could have been narrated by Big Bird for all I care!

 

Lol.  Agreed.

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#21 of 47 Old 09-10-2013, 09:47 AM
 
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So what. Do you really think the goverment is pristine and above reproach, and has never engaged in conspiracies? Gulf of Tonkin.

Nope never said that. There wouldn't be a need for secret service or the CIA if the general public was privy to everything that goes on in our government.

Watergate is a good example of a conspiracy theory that was true.

Does that mean that I think all or even most conspiracy theories are true? Nope.

The vaccine cover up conspiracy is not one I think has any merit.

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1. Is it wrong to believe there is information being withheld from the public? Am I a bad person because I have little faith in my government?  I have no faith in the North Korean government either, and that's allowed, right? Do I have your permission to believe conspiracies exist in their government? But not my own government, no sir. Must have total faith in them, right!?!

 

2. So, did any of you watch the video? Any comments about the actual content?

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#23 of 47 Old 09-10-2013, 09:51 AM
 
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Nope never said that. There wouldn't be a need for secret service or the CIA if the general public was privy to everything that goes on in our government.

Watergate is a good example of a conspiracy theory that was true.

Does that mean that I think all or even most conspiracy theories are true? Nope.

The vaccine cover up conspiracy is not one I think has any merit.

Excellent! So you admit conspiracies DO exist, but we just have different opinions on which ones.

We're not so different after all!

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 "Medical propaganda ops are, in the long run, the most dangerous. They appear to be neutral. They wave no political banners. They claim to be science. For these reasons, they can accomplish the goals of overt fascism without arousing suspicion.” — Jon Rappoport
 
 
 
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#24 of 47 Old 09-10-2013, 10:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BeckyBird View Post
 

 

 

2. So, did any of you watch the video? Any comments about the actual content?

 

This. I am beginning to suspect that our pro-vaxers do not have an opinion of the content of the video, or are having troubling 'debunking' this particular conspiracy.

 

I also find it incredibly naive that our pro-vaxers can believe the US government is capable of deceiving the general public over Watergate, for example, but believe every single word they say about vaccines. 


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#25 of 47 Old 09-10-2013, 10:09 AM
 
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Excellent! So you admit conspiracies DO exist, but we just have different opinions on which ones.
We're not so different after all!

Something tells me we are probably pretty different.... smile.gif

I think the things the government keeps from us are more along the lines of secrets that protect our national security, or secret military technologies, or secret weapons and not so much " lets murder and cripple thousands of children for money and not tell anyone and try to get every country on the globe in on it!"

Call me crazy I suppose...
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#26 of 47 Old 09-10-2013, 10:15 AM
 
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I will also add that it is very possible to be skeptical of vaccine without thinking the government is hiding things.

 

There really is enough grounds to question vaccines in the CDC Pink book alone - and if you disagree, you are just not reading with a critical eye :wink

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#27 of 47 Old 09-10-2013, 10:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BeckyBird View Post
 

1. Is it wrong to believe there is information being withheld from the public? Am I a bad person because I have little faith in my government?  I have no faith in the North Korean government either, and that's allowed, right? Do I have your permission to believe conspiracies exist in their government? But not my own government, no sir. Must have total faith in them, right!?!

 

 

 

 

I have been thinking about conspiracy theorists in general on this thread - I don't think they are more or less likely to be bad people than anyone else, I don't think they deserve to have their beliefs trivialised ( the pompousness) and I don't always think they are always wrong ( in many cases we simply do not know).

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There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#28 of 47 Old 09-10-2013, 10:25 AM
 
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It isn't an ad hominem attack.  It isn't Rob Schneider the person I have a problem with, it is an unsubstantiated opinion. Like I said, my mindful vaccination view is that this is 100% ignorable because it isn't information, it is affirmation for those who think vaccines cause autism and the government and courts and doctors are trying to cover up the link at the expense of children. That has a place, but it isn't going to sway any minds only get those who already believe it to stand up and shout "Hooray".  There is no proof offered in this video.  The video is a 5 minute diatribe that is not scientific nor legalistic.  It is simply the opinions of a comedic actor telling us how this problem could be solved by getting rid of the vaccine injury compensation act.. It is not that simple.  And I do care how information is presented.  When I research I personally will only consider things that are coming from someone who has some background in the subject matter, otherwise it isn't research it is just looking for people who agree with my preconceived notion regardless of what it is.  I also find overly simplistic ideas surrounding obviously complex problems and situations to be suspect.

 

I could type up fifty paragraphs explaining details about the justice system and analysis that could explain how just getting rid of the vaccine compensation court could have second and third order effects and that it wouldn't solve this problem.  Cite 100 studies about vaccines not being linked to autism.  it won't matter because it would be complicated and nuanced and sadly, in the world we live in sound bites and simple memes rule the day.

 

I also find it interesting that when I point out Rob Schneiders lack of qualifications in legal analysis, autism, and vaccination.  it is considered an "Ad hominem" attack.  Yet if I posted a twenty page cited referenced paper by Paul Offit a physician with countless accomplishments and qualifications in medicine and immunology and infectious disease it would be discounted off hand by saying "of course he would support this he is Dr. "PROFfIT and he has a nice house. and makes money. 

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#29 of 47 Old 09-10-2013, 10:31 AM
 
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LOL: Rob Schneider NARRATED that video. So it is ad Hominem if the attack is focused on a narrator.

Nothing 'makes someone a conspiracy theorist' like nothing 'makes someone a Commie' because they are both establishment slurs specifically designed to dehumanize, discredit & silence. The fact that Webster threw up a definition means absolutely nothing.
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#30 of 47 Old 09-10-2013, 10:36 AM
 
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Dakotacakes, your post was attacking Rob Schneider the man, it did not address the issue of the Vaccine Compensation Court, so yes, it was an ad hominem attack. You did not address the issue, although you say you could have written fifty paragraphs on the subject, and post 100 studies debunking the link between vaccines and autsim - but your reason for not doing so was presumably because the posters here are only able to grasp sound bites and memes. Hmmmm.

 

Rob Schneider was the narrator, as Becky said, Big Bird could have narrated the video, and as far as I know Big Bird is somewhat lacking in legal, medical, vaccine and autism knowledge too. So what was inaccurate about the information presented in the video?

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