U.S measles cases in 2013 may be most in 17 years - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 59 Old 09-12-2013, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
 
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"This year is on track to be the worst for measles in more than a decade, according to new numbers released Thursday by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. And people who refuse to vaccinate their children are behind the increasing number of outbreaks, health officials say.

According to the CDC, one to three out of every 1,000 children in the United States who get measles will die from the disease, even with the best of care. Even if complications such as pneumonia and encephalitis aren't deadly, they can make children very sick; in 2011, nearly 40% of children under the age of 5 who got measles had to be treated in the hospital.

Among those who have been stricken with measles this year, 92% were not vaccinated or had unknown vaccination status."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/12/health/worst-measles-year/index.html?hpt=hp_t2


Here's a new poster by the NHS saying 1 in 10 children with measles ends up in the hospital.

http://www.creativematch.com/news/nhs-launches-campaign-to-encourage/97095/

So what does it take for some of you guys to admit that measles is not a mild childhood illness like a cold?

Does 4 out of 10 children under 5 needing to be hospitalized sound mild to you?

But let's count the Brady Bunch as scientific evidence that its harmless eyesroll.gif

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The above is yet more fearmongering propaganda. I am old enough to have been a child in England prior to the introduction of the measles vaccination. Everyone I knew had measles, no one suffered complications, no one was hospitalized and no one died.

If it is more deadly now it is because medical practitioners have no idea how to treat the infection - basically do nothing, and combined with the fact over 50% of US children are chronically sick and they no longer have the benefit of natural maternal immunity so do not catch the disaese during the optimal window of infection - 3 to 9.

You need to do a great deal better than post a CNN propaganda piece to convince me.

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#3 of 59 Old 09-12-2013, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The above is yet more fearmongering propaganda. I am old enough to have been a child in England prior to the introduction of the measles vaccination. Everyone I knew had measles, no one suffered complications, no one was hospitalized and no one died.

If it is more deadly now it is because medical practitioners have no idea how to treat the infection - basically do nothing, and combined with the fact over 50% of US children are chronically sick and they no longer have the benefit of natural maternal immunity so do not catch the disaese during the optimal window of infection - 3 to 9.

You need to do a great deal better than post a CNN propaganda piece to convince me.

Oh the propaganda gambit. Alrighty eyesroll.gif

I'm not sure why you think your anecdotal evidence somehow trumps recent scientific data.

There were over 50,000 cases of measles in the early 90s and thousands of cases since then that allowed doctors/scientists to observe how common certain side effects and reactions to the disease are. It's not like they pulled these numbers out of a hat.

The article used data from the CDC, it's not just an opinion piece. Is the NHS just a propaganda machine as well?

I know hundreds and hundreds of people who get into cars nearly everyday and most of them multiple times a day and I don't know of a single person who has ever even been severely injured in a car accident. And I live in a big city with millions of people, not on some dirt road in a small town. Should I conclude from that that the studies showing the risks and dangers of car accidents are just propaganda? Stop wearing seat belts and stop requiring my child to use a seat belt? That would be pretty illogical IMO.

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#4 of 59 Old 09-12-2013, 12:44 PM
 
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Yep propaganda pure and simple. Where are all the measles cases in Boulder County with just 60 percent fully vaccinated?

By rights the children of Boulder should be dropping like flies and the local hospitals full of sick kids with measles.

I submit, measles outbreaks are being caused by the vaccine, in a population of predominantly immune compromised children without maternal protection and diminishing vaccine immunity.

Measles in a healthy, well nourished child is easy and nothing to fear. If you chose to believe otherwise that is your call, so feel free to vaccinate if it makes you feel better.
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#5 of 59 Old 09-12-2013, 01:34 PM
 
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Immunologist Tetyana Obukhanych Ph.D

 

Measles immunology

 

 

She points out that vaccines have stripped mothers, and by extension, their baby, of the capacity for life-long immuno-protection, given the absence of natural childhood exposure to measles in the environment.

 

“I am very concerned that “immunologic memory” of adjuvant-containing vaccines is actually the basis of sensitization rather than the basis of immunity. Furthermore, I am very concerned that “successful” prevention of childhood diseases by means of short-term protective effects of live attenuated viral vaccines during childhood has led to the loss of maternal ability to transfer immuno-protection to their young, thereby leaving infants vulnerable to those diseases, should the exposure occur."


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#6 of 59 Old 09-12-2013, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yep propaganda pure and simple. Where are all the measles cases in Boulder County with just 60 percent fully vaccinated?

By rights the children of Boulder should be dropping like flies and the local hospitals full of sick kids with measles.

I submit, measles outbreaks are being caused by the vaccine, in a population of predominantly immune compromised children without maternal protection and diminishing vaccine immunity.

Measles in a healthy, well nourished child is easy and nothing to fear. If you chose to believe otherwise that is your call, so feel free to vaccinate if it makes you feel better.

Can you show me any evidence that the children/young adults that died were all malnourished in the late 80s early 90s measles epidemic?

The evidence I found shows that the biggest risk factor for death from measles during those outbreaks was not being vaccinated.

This is date from just the year 1990 in which there were over 27,000 cases of measles.

A provisional total of 89 measles-associated deaths were reported, for a death-to-case ratio of 3.2 deaths per 1000 reported cases. Deaths were reported from 15 states. Forty-nine (55.1%) deaths occurred among children less than 5 years of age, including 15 (16.9%) children less than 12 months of age and 13 (14.6%) children 5--19 years of age. The other 27 (30.3%) deaths occurred among adults greater than or equal to 20 years of age. Eighty-one (91.0%) suspected measles-associated deaths occurred among unvaccinated persons. Reported by: Div of Immunization, Center for Prevention Svcs, CDC.

So over 90 percent of the deaths from 1990 due to measles were in unvaccinated people.

They have race/ethnicity information for 40 percent of the cases reported:

"Information on race/ethnicity was available for 11,083 (40.1%) cases reported from 34 states and the District of Columbia (no race/ethnicity information was available for cases reported from the other 15 states, including California). Of these, 6192 (55.9%) occurred among non-Hispanic whites; 2472 (22.3%), non-Hispanic blacks; 2082 (18.8%), Hispanics; and 337 (3.0%), other racial or ethnic groups. "

Incidence was higher in Hispanics and Blacks than in whites but Hispanics and Blacks were also less likely to be vaccinated.


http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00001999.htm

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#7 of 59 Old 09-12-2013, 01:59 PM
 
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Can you show me any evidence that the children/young adults that died were all malnourished in the late 80s early 90s measles epidemic?

The evidence I found shows that the biggest risk factor for death from measles during those outbreaks was not being vaccinated.

This is date from just the year 1990 in which there were over 27,000 cases of measles.

A provisional total of 89 measles-associated deaths were reported, for a death-to-case ratio of 3.2 deaths per 1000 reported cases. Deaths were reported from 15 states. Forty-nine (55.1%) deaths occurred among children less than 5 years of age, including 15 (16.9%) children less than 12 months of age and 13 (14.6%) children 5--19 years of age. The other 27 (30.3%) deaths occurred among adults greater than or equal to 20 years of age. Eighty-one (91.0%) suspected measles-associated deaths occurred among unvaccinated persons. Reported by: Div of Immunization, Center for Prevention Svcs, CDC.

So over 90 percent of the deaths from 1990 due to measles were in unvaccinated people.

They have race/ethnicity information for 40 percent of the cases reported:

"Information on race/ethnicity was available for 11,083 (40.1%) cases reported from 34 states and the District of Columbia (no race/ethnicity information was available for cases reported from the other 15 states, including California). Of these, 6192 (55.9%) occurred among non-Hispanic whites; 2472 (22.3%), non-Hispanic blacks; 2082 (18.8%), Hispanics; and 337 (3.0%), other racial or ethnic groups. "

Incidence was higher in Hispanics and Blacks than in whites but Hispanics and Blacks were also less likely to be vaccinated.


http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00001999.htm

 

teacozy, I am really not interested in pursuing this debate with you because I feel it is a huge waste of my time. I am also not on my computer with all my links and I am not about to go on a hunt for them. FWIW, I did not say the children in the 1990s were malnourished, I very clearly stated that over 50% of children today are chronically sick. If you read "Measles Mortality in the United States 1971 - 1975" it clearly shows that the more impoverished states had a higher death rate. 

 

I am almost certain you won't watch the above video I posted.

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#8 of 59 Old 09-12-2013, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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teacozy, I am really not interested in pursuing this debate with you because I feel it is a huge waste of my time. I am also not on my computer with all my links and I am not about to go on a hunt for them. FWIW, I did not say the children in the 1990s were malnourished, I very clearly stated that over 50% of children today are chronically sick. If you read "Measles Mortality in the United States 1971 - 1975" it clearly shows that the more impoverished states had a higher death rate. 

I am almost certain you won't watch the above video I posted.

I was responding to this statement you made "Measles in a healthy, well nourished child is easy and nothing to fear."

If that's true, then that means that the people that died in the 80s/90s outbreak had to have been mostly unhealthy and malnourished, and I would like some evidence to support that theory.

So you have links that prove it you just can't/won't/don't want to show me. Ok gotcha thumb.gif

And no I didn't watch the 45 minute video you posted, I don't have time. One persons opinion isn't evidence anyway.

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#9 of 59 Old 09-12-2013, 02:18 PM
 
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I was responding to this statement you made "Measles in a healthy, well nourished child is easy and nothing to fear."

If that's true, then that means that the people that died in the 80s/90s outbreak had to have been mostly unhealthy and malnourished, and I would like some evidence to support that theory.

So you have links that prove it you just can't/won't/don't want to show me. Ok gotcha thumb.gif

And no I didn't watch the 45 minute video you posted, I don't have time. One persons opinion isn't evidence anyway.

 

 

 

You have just proved what a waste of time it is arguing with you. :thumb

 

The video had plenty of scientific evidence on measles immunity. 


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#10 of 59 Old 09-12-2013, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You have just proved what a waste of time it is arguing with you. thumb.gif

The video had plenty of scientific evidence on measles immunity. 

Right. So anyone who doesn't have time to watch a 45 minute video is pointless to debate with. Ok good to know. I'm sure I can dig up some 45 minute pro vaccine video one of these days and we will see how many people watch it.

What exactly does this person say about immunity or measles that can't be found in print online somewhere? If its not an opinion piece then the information should be easy to find in print on the web.

Criticizing me for not watching the video is pretty ironic since your the one who won't show me your evidence proving that the kids that died in the 90s were malnourished and unhealthy.

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The video was pro science, not anti vaccine, I am not about to go digging for all her sources when it is on the screen for anyone to follow up. The quality of the video wasn't that great, but for those wanting science on immunity (she's an immunologist), it is worth the time to watch. 

 

Healthy children who get measles during the ages of 3 and 9, rarely have complications or die. This is the truth.


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Maybe if they are SUPER concerned, they will give us access to a single valent Measles vaccine, finally?
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#13 of 59 Old 09-12-2013, 06:27 PM
 
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Great video, thanks for posting. I didn't watch it so much as listen to it while folding laundry and keeping an eye on the small caveman I live with, but it was very informative.
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#14 of 59 Old 09-12-2013, 06:56 PM
 
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Maybe if they are SUPER concerned, they will give us access to a single valent Measles vaccine, finally?

 

Doubt it.  They are not super concerned.  If they were super concerned, they would have single valent vaccines availible, for those who do want mealses vaccines but do not want mumps and rubella.  

 
Teacozy - it would not surprise me if we have larger than usual numbers of measles - there was an outbreak in the UK, and there is a fair bit of travel between the UK and N. America.  I doubt it will be a huge outbreak - when as of August 24th there were only about 160 cases.  Let's not fear monger.  
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Maybe if they are SUPER concerned, they will give us access to a single valent Measles vaccine, finally?

:yeah

 

What gets me is the constant blaming and finger pointing at abstaining families, yet if manufacturers and health officials actually gave families more choices in both products available and the scheduling of them, they might actually see an increase in uptake for those families who have made the conscious decision to avoid the combo vaccines. 

 

We've fallen through the cracks right now because we can't get the product we'd like here and official recommendations are contradictory to what we consider reasonable. 

 

I'm sure it affects the bottom line to offer monovalent vaccines. But if officials are so concerned, I'm sure they can work with the manufacturers on a solution that works for everyone. The fact that they haven't speaks louder than words, right?

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#16 of 59 Old 09-13-2013, 07:02 AM
 
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The MMR rate in Germany is really high, yet there are plenty of cases of measles. I'd love to know which age groups exactly are infected (maybe young adults who had MMR at 12 months and then never again?).

"According to the German Medical Association, children should be vaccinated twice: once between 11 and 14 months of age and a second time four to six weeks later. In 2011, the rate for the first vaccination was 96.6 percent; the second, at 92.1 percent.(Source: Deutsche Welle, RKI numbers)"

 

For the record, we did do MMR, not happily as we only wanted measles protection. We did it before this year's trip to Germany as we were traveling around quite a bit. Titer test blood draw was 2 days ago so we shall see, though I am very confident that the titer will be sufficient as the kids were 2y3m and 4.5 at the time (vaccination before 18 months is tied to lower titers, no links available but google it). If we have low titers, a second MMR is not something I'm willing to do unless there is a measles outbreak. So bringing back the monovalent measles as available in Europe would be good - it would get people like me to vaccinate earlier (I was ok with measles only starting at age 2 but didn't do so for the LACK of the vaccine). There are more than two brands available in Europe, FDA approval would be easy, but ACIP actively recommended against making monovalent shots available to force people into compliance (google it).

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#17 of 59 Old 09-13-2013, 07:09 AM - Thread Starter
 
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yeahthat.gif

What gets me is the constant blaming and finger pointing at abstaining families, yet if manufacturers and health officials actually gave families more choices in both products available and the scheduling of them, they might actually see an increase in uptake for those families who have made the conscious decision to avoid the combo vaccines. 

We've fallen through the cracks right now because we can't get the product we'd like here and official recommendations are contradictory to what we consider reasonable. 

I'm sure it affects the bottom line to offer monovalent vaccines. But if officials are so concerned, I'm sure they can work with the manufacturers on a solution that works for everyone. The fact that they haven't speaks louder than words, right?

Fwiw, I agree that it would be better to offer a single dose Measles vaccine if it meant a large number of people who wouldn't vaccinate for MMR under any circumstances anyway would get the vaccine. It's better than nothing even though I think rubella is important because of the harm it causes unborn babies.

If, however, it meant people that would have gotten the MMR now just choose to get the single measles vaccine because of some perceived danger (if its not dangerous for them to be combined, why do they offer a single separate dose?) kind of questioning then it may do more harm than good.

But my question is (and this is not directed at you specifically) why would you vaccinate for measles if its just a benign childhood illness? No worse than a cold?

Given the attitude about measles that comes from a lot of NVers I just don't see NVers lining up to get the vaccine anyway.

So how many of you would 100% get a measles vaccine for your child if it came in a single dose vaccine and why?

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"I'd love to know which age groups exactly are infected (maybe young adults who had MMR at 12 months and then never again?)."

It's mostly unvaccinated children when looking at data from the CDC that are infected.

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I would probably get a measles only vaccine for my son because he's under age 3 still and I would like him protected just in case. Our doctor has specifically advised us to hold off on the MMR until his digestive issues are under control as it is associated with gut problems in some children. It is one of the few vaccines I'd consider, but I would be far more comfortable opting for single disease shots rather than combo vaxes.
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"I'd love to know which age groups exactly are infected (maybe young adults who had MMR at 12 months and then never again?)."

It's mostly unvaccinated children when looking at data from the CDC that are infected.
"Unvaccinated" isn't an age group. This post seems intentionally snide and unhelpful. And does the CDC keep track of German outbreaks? Because it seems that's what she's referring to.

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#21 of 59 Old 09-13-2013, 07:21 AM
 
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There is a M&R being offered in Africa right now. IDK the strain or the rest of the ingredients tho. Google GAVI M&R initiative.

If I was inclined to Vax in an outbreak, it would be 20% for disease avoidance, 40% because I would expect to have difficulty getting great treatment because of the political aspect & 31% for social fallout for our family (like the pitchfork factor), and 9% because of SSPE
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#22 of 59 Old 09-13-2013, 09:02 AM
 
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But my question is (and this is not directed at you specifically) why would you vaccinate for measles if its just a benign childhood illness? No worse than a cold?

Given the attitude about measles that comes from a lot of NVers I just don't see NVers lining up to get the vaccine anyway.

So how many of you would 100% get a measles vaccine for your child if it came in a single dose vaccine and why?

teacozy…I think you are painting with broad strokes and the 100% is quite the absolute.

 

I do not think measles is a benign disease.  It has a higher complication and fatality rate than I would like.  I would much prefer a child get rubella, chicken pox, mumps, rotavirus, flu, and hep A than measles.  

 

I would absolutely be more likely to consider a straight forward measles vaccine than an MMR.  I don't think mumps and rubella vaccines should be given to children ( teens who have not had the disease?  maybe) - and I absolutely balk at giving drugs to a child that does not need them.

 

As to whether or not I would give a single monovalent measles vaccine - well, that depends.  I would want to know the safety profile of the vaccine (MMR is a fairly reactive vaccine, and I can never see myself giving it before age 3, even in a large outbreak.  Would a single measles vaccine have the same profile or not?) , I would consider the age of the child, health of the child and I would look at the likelihood of them getting the disease.  I can see me giving it in some circumstances.  

 

Now, ante up - any vaccines you can see yourself rejecting (and not just for "medical reason"?  )

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#23 of 59 Old 09-13-2013, 10:30 AM
 
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The MMR rate in Germany is really high, yet there are plenty of cases of measles. I'd love to know which age groups exactly are infected (maybe young adults who had MMR at 12 months and then never again?).

 

Weird, eh?

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#24 of 59 Old 09-13-2013, 12:35 PM
 
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Weird indeed. I can't find numbers. Only how many overall infected and age groups, but not vaccine status. I haven't looked through the numbers cause I'm busy with other stuff today.
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#25 of 59 Old 09-13-2013, 02:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post

Right. So anyone who doesn't have time to watch a 45 minute video is pointless to debate with. Ok good to know. I'm sure I can dig up some 45 minute pro vaccine video one of these days and we will see how many people watch it.

What exactly does this person say about immunity or measles that can't be found in print online somewhere? If its not an opinion piece then the information should be easy to find in print on the web.

Criticizing me for not watching the video is pretty ironic since your the one who won't show me your evidence proving that the kids that died in the 90s were malnourished and unhealthy.

You seem to have plenty of time to debate...
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#26 of 59 Old 09-13-2013, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

You seem to have plenty of time to debate...

Thank you for such an excellent contribution to this thread, it was so enlightening eyesroll.gif

Does it take you 45 minutes to write a response in a thread? It takes me about 5 minutes max, even on an ipad, especially if I have links handy.

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#27 of 59 Old 09-13-2013, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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@kathymuggle

I'm glad you at least somewhat acknowledge the dangers of measles, even if I disagree with you on the importance of the rubella vaccine.

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson 
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#28 of 59 Old 09-15-2013, 03:07 PM
 
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I'm not in line with the entire post, (e.g. the autism tangent), but the blogger makes some good rebuttals against media measles hysteria.

http://gianelloni.wordpress.com/2013/09/13/why-all-the-measles-outbreaks/
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#29 of 59 Old 09-15-2013, 03:25 PM
 
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From the above article:

 

Speaking of jokes. I found this awesome picture on the CDC website today. It was published on August 24, 2013 so I’m not showing an outdated picture from the CDC website.

measles cdc websiteFIGURE 2. Number of measles cases (N = 159), by state — United States, 2013*  * As of August 24, 2013.

THIS. These numbers are what we are making a big deal about? This picture is what CNN is basing it’s breaking news story on. Are we serious?

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#30 of 59 Old 09-15-2013, 03:41 PM
 
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Oh and the article states there have been no measles deaths since 2003. 

 

Quote:
I went through the last few years of measles “outbreaks”, and there hasn’t been a measles death since 2003, despite years and years of “outbreaks” being caused by the unvaccinated. Which by the way, do you notice that we are always having the “worst outbreak in years”, every year? In 2008, we had an outbreak in San Diego…this is how they worded it….”In the end, 839 people were exposed to measles. Eleven were infected.” 11. But in 2008, if you remember the headlines, it was the worst measles outbreak. Ever.

 

I thought this comment from Dr Lawrence Palevsky, was worth bearing in mind, from Part I of the series:


 

Quote:

We fail to include that viruses have a life cycle, and that they are in relationship to other organisms and to us. Something activates them and something actually stops them, and it has nothing necessarily to do with the percentage of people who would have the illness or who have been vaccinated. …

 

 

Given that vaccines do not offer life-time protection, and lose their effectiveness anywhere between 2 and 10 years, we have not had herd immunity with fifty percent of the population for 20 or 30 years, but no, as Dr Russell Blaylock says in the first article:

 

Quote:
Herd immunity has not existed in this country for many decades, and no resurgent epidemics have occurred. Vaccine-induced herd immunity is a lie used to frighten doctors, public-health officials, other medical personnel, and the public into accepting vaccinations”.

 

I again, will refer back to Boulder CO with just a measly 60% fully vaccinated rate and no measles outbreaks. The two measles cases from CO shown in the above graphic was not in Boulder, but south Denver.

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