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#61 of 114 Old 10-27-2013, 12:20 PM
 
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I'm not twisting, I quoted you directly. NO you didn't! I guess a twisted statement would be more like, "a person like me might say that a person like you was stupid if that person was to do something like you did." But you are right, you did not say "EM is stupid." Had you quoted me you would see I didn't call the poster any name.

Whatever the definition of stupid, I would ask my daughter for example to not use that word to refer to another person.

 

I heard a CEO use the word stupid after he fired someone for exactly what I described - it is what it is, like the word dumb better? It's that too.  Doing so is ground in many companies (charities as well) for termination and doing so is just what I said. 

 

as you are entitled, so am I to voice my thoughts - doing so is clearly not  viewed as "smart" by most who have the power to hire and fire people 


 

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#62 of 114 Old 10-27-2013, 12:51 PM
 
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Do you mean I did not quote you because of the ellipses which replaced "not credible and also?" i put those in b/c I didn't want to address the issue of her scientific credibility, because that could be viewed as relevant to the issue. Otherwise it was a direct quote, the ellipses are a legit way to show something is left out of a quote, and if you were to have an English teacher diagram the original sentence, I imagine it would show that you were describing (ETA: how other people think that) people like that are both stupid and not credible. I only wished to address one of those points, and have no interest in arguing the other.
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#63 of 114 Old 10-27-2013, 01:06 PM
 
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And, sorry, please read, but initially I never said you called her stupid directly. "But not you, right?" Is I think what I wrote. We can mince words but I wanted to point that out because I think it is moving this discussion in an unnecessarily hostile direction. I'm sure you can argue your points without discussing how good of an employee EM is, or how other people might view other people as stupid.

And, it is OK to talk about dumb actions, but no, I think "other people would look at a person like this as dumb" is equally inappropriate.
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#64 of 114 Old 10-27-2013, 02:43 PM
 
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And, sorry, please read, but initially I never said you called her stupid directly. "But not you, right?" Is I think what I wrote. We can mince words but I wanted to point that out because I think it is moving this discussion in an unnecessarily hostile direction. I'm sure you can argue your points without discussing how good of an employee EM is, or how other people might view other people as stupid.

And, it is OK to talk about dumb actions, but no, I think "other people would look at a person like this as dumb" is equally inappropriate.

 

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Do you mean I did not quote you because of the ellipses which replaced "not credible and also?" i put those in b/c I didn't want to address the issue of her scientific credibility, because that could be viewed as relevant to the issue. Otherwise it was a direct quote, the ellipses are a legit way to show something is left out of a quote, and if you were to have an English teacher diagram the original sentence, I imagine it would show that you were describing (ETA: how other people think that) people like that are both stupid and not credible. I only wished to address one of those points, and have no interest in arguing the other.

 

and you can't see what you posted??

 

and your point is what? frankly using the word "stupid" in the context I did (as in loosing one's job and/or career) frankly I find it a very mild verb used here, I can think of several others to use as well

clearly you understand it was a compound sentence with two meanings to get across and two words used - are you as worried about "credibility"? or is not appropriate either?

 

what exactly is it when someone does this? are you advocating it's some how a "smart" thing to do?

because I see more and more people posting and loosing  jobs over positions they take on issues on the internet and given the context here, this poster says she works for a company and works with autistic children and makes statements about them & their parents, autism and her employer - I feel it's fair to address it, apparently she felt it was fair to state it


 

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#65 of 114 Old 10-27-2013, 04:49 PM
 
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Surely you have read that this poster is not some random mother making these claims- she states she is a professional who works with autistic children yet produces no data to back up what she stated. Quite a bit different.

Your point is what?? I wasn't discussing what any ither members here have said. YOU stated that you have never met a child IRL that was unvaccinated and autistic. I was asking YOU if you had somehow missed the numerous posts by moms here who have unvaccinated children that are autistic. Again just because we haven't seen something with our own eyes doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
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#66 of 114 Old 10-27-2013, 05:51 PM
 
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Your point is what?? I wasn't discussing what any ither members here have said. YOU stated that you have never met a child IRL that was unvaccinated and autistic. I was asking YOU if you had somehow missed the numerous posts by moms here who have unvaccinated children that are autistic. Again just because we haven't seen something with our own eyes doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

that does not even make sense!

 

I said IRL (in real life-get it?, not something I don't know is really true, not something I have read or a movie, that is why IRL is used-meanign real, daily life), you go on to say you are -"I wasn't discussing what any ither members here have said." and you precede to talk about numerous posts on the here? - that is NOT IRL :dizzy these are posts, this is a message board 

 

 

It's real clear, in real life (as in daily interactions where you see people and interact) I have never meet a child that was unvaccinated and autistic - nope, ones I have meet and their parents have all said basically the same story as to when and how they were prior to being vaccinated. The unvaccinated children and parents (adults) I know also do not have autism and or spectrum disorders and frankly are in great health over all. 

 

ETA- I have/had grandparents that came from very large families,we have had reunions where I have seen large groups of people that grew up pre-routine vaccines and if they had one vaccine (small pox) that was usually the norm, many didn't even have that, some might have had tetanus (when that was not a combo), the men largely also did not join the military and none were autistic either. I know so many want to always throw this out about unvaccinated and autism - how many have spoken to OLD, yes really old, general practitioners, who have been practicing prior to routine vaccinations and  who treated children for years? Who were the first to see what we are seeing now and recognize autism epidemic as real? It just seem so easy to say so many unvaccinated have autism. How many is that compared to vaccinated?


 

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#67 of 114 Old 10-27-2013, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Don't get me wrong, I would personally LOVE for mercury to be cause for autism. Some of the kids I work with and their families would get a payout and the support they need, plus better research into maybe how to reverse the damage that has been done? Vaccinations could be made organic and the whole autism nightmare would have an end, numbers would suddenly reduce, etc. I am sure pharma companies would find great new ways of financially turning this around for them. They are clever that way.

 

But it just simply isn't the case (with our knowledge so for, anyway.)

 

 

Whoa, there.  We don't know that mercury is NOT a cause of autism.   

 

Mercury-free pediatric vaccines began to be manufactured in 2000/2001, but thimerosal-preserved pediatric vaccines continued to be manufactured, sold, and distributed in the US until at least 2004, when the flu shot began to be recommended.  Flu shots given to pregnant women, infants, and children continue, for the vast majority, to be the thimerosal-preserved version.

 

The current statistics on the rate of autism in the US is based on studies done in 2008--on children born in 2000.

 

In other words, on children who received the full schedule of thimerosal-preserved vaccines as infants.  In fact, they received far more thimerosal-preserved vaccines by age 8 than children born in previous decades.

 

So, if you are relying on the fallacy "Oh, thimerosal was taken out of vaccines 13 years ago and the autism rate is still climbing, so that exonerates thimerosal," please do realize that that is, in fact, a total fallacy.

 

If anything, it supports the data that autism has continued to increase with the continued and increased use of thimerosal.

 

It doesn't mean it's the sole cause, or that there aren't plenty of other factors.

 

It's just a good idea to get the facts straight.

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#68 of 114 Old 10-28-2013, 04:07 AM
 
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A large amount of autistic kids are below the age of thirteen though. And there are kids who have severe autism who have never been vaccinated in the first place, so that would certainly rule our mercury as a sole cause. 

 

This thread has went rather OT. No, I am not allowed to share the actual name of the place I work in, but AM allowed to say NAS. Strict guidelines forbid me mentioning names of children, etc. It IS allowed to share anecdotes, in fact, my bosses do that on other boards where they give advice about PECS or toilet training of autistic kids and share examples. 

 

However, I asked to the senior to have a wee look at this thread and she said, to be on the safe side, even though it is rather obvious, I should mention that my opnions on are mind. I so not represent the NAS here. They don't have a stand on vaccinations, so that would be rather obvious anyway. Maybe the US is more Orwellian than the UK?

 

There was a lady who got dismissed. She had shared on FB the initials of a boy and the school.Plus the fact that the boy had done this or that.  At that school there was only one boy with those initials, so they were right to fire her. 

 

You see Social Workers, lawyers, hairdressers, etc, online who roughly name their employer and share stories. You just gotta be careful and not give out actual identities of the families involved. 

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#69 of 114 Old 10-28-2013, 04:11 AM
 
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A large amount of autistic kids are below the age of thirteen though. And there are kids who have severe autism who have never been vaccinated in the first place, so that would certainly rule our mercury as a sole cause. 

 

This thread has went rather OT. No, I am not allowed to share the actual name of the place I work in, but AM allowed to say NAS. Strict guidelines forbid me mentioning names of children, etc. It IS allowed to share anecdotes, in fact, my bosses do that on other boards where they give advice about PECS or toilet training of autistic kids and share examples. 

 

However, I asked to the senior to have a wee look at this thread and she said, to be on the safe side, even though it is rather obvious, I should mention that my opinions on are mine. I so not represent the NAS here. They don't have a stand on vaccinations, so that would be rather obvious anyway. Maybe the US is more Orwellian than the UK?

 

There was a lady who got dismissed. She had shared on FB the initials of a boy and the school.Plus the fact that the boy had done this or that.  At that school there was only one boy with those initials, so they were right to fire her. 

 

You see Social Workers, lawyers, hairdressers, etc, online who roughly name their employer and share stories. You just gotta be careful and not give out actual identities of the families involved. 

 

But thanks for the "worry".

 

Regarding my DS, no he has not been vaccinated fully, but will be. His first onset of symptoms took place before he received any vaccinations at all, so he couldn't have them. He couldn't get viruses either, or be exposed to stuff other kids can. I do wish medical professionals would make up their minds though. Until then, we trusted herd immunity, and it worked. 

 

The vaccinations will be beneficial for your child, just not much has been misunderstood. I am talking a scenario, where all kids are protected, just yours isn't and the risk of catching for instance mumps, measles or rubella are small. So, "not much" would mean "small risk, as everyone is protected". And certain illnesses like chickenpox wouldn't normally be very dangerous to a healthy child, so that is included in the "not much." I don't see the absurdity. 

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#70 of 114 Old 10-28-2013, 04:42 AM
 
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Maybe the US is more Orwellian than the UK?

 

 

 

It's not "Orwellian" it's called being respectful.

 

This is an international site, personally I have family in the UK, and in Scotland I know full well what NAS is and so do other family members  - Stef hearing your "anecdotical" remarks haven't gone over well. 


 

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#71 of 114 Old 10-28-2013, 05:42 AM
 
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The vaccinations will be beneficial for your child, just not much has been misunderstood. I am talking a scenario, where all kids are protected, just yours isn't and the risk of catching for instance mumps, measles or rubella are small. So, "not much" would mean "small risk, as everyone is protected". And certain illnesses like chickenpox wouldn't normally be very dangerous to a healthy child, so that is included in the "not much." I don't see the absurdity. :rotflmao

what ever???

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I don't think those who vax assume there is a huge benefit. 
 

yea a really winning slogan - maybe Glaxo Smith Kline should use you two to sell vaccines!

Sure that logic would go over so well - wonder why they haven't marketed this school of thought? :twins 


 

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#72 of 114 Old 10-28-2013, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
 
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A large amount of autistic kids are below the age of thirteen though. And there are kids who have severe autism who have never been vaccinated in the first place, so that would certainly rule our mercury as a sole cause. 


Yes, there are many autistic kids under the age of 13, whose mothers were given thimerosal-preserved flu shots while pregnant (thimerosal crosses the placenta), and who also received thimerosal-preserved flu shots (2 at 6 months followed by yearly thimerosal-preserved flu shots), which were not part of the recommended vaccine schedule 13 years ago.

There are also other common exposures to mercury, such as ingestion of high-in-mercury fish (tuna, swordfish), dental amalgams, pesticides, living near coal-fired plants, and use (in mother or child) of over-the-counter nasal decongestant sprays and prescription eyedrops preserved with thimerosal.

There is also the vastly increased use of aluminum-adjuvanted vaccines, which not only have their own dangerous side effects, but, when given in combination with a thimerosal-preserved flu shot, can exponentially increase side effects of thimerosal. (Thimerosal is NEVER supposed to be combined with aluminum--says so right on the container.)

I'd like to hear your explanation of how this rules out mercury as a cause of autism.
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#73 of 114 Old 10-28-2013, 02:42 PM
 
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Like I said, we need better studies. For now, the mercury theory is about as valid as a religious one would be. It is not even a theory, but a hypothesis. And one that deserves to be looked into  by people who have no personal interest in the outcome. 

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#74 of 114 Old 10-28-2013, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Like I said, we need better studies. For now, the mercury theory is about as valid as a religious one would be. It is not even a theory, but a hypothesis. And one that deserves to be looked into  by people who have no personal interest in the outcome. 

No, for now, the mercury hypothesis/theory has not been accurately refuted--and there are studies clearly indicating a link.  Even the CDC has admitted it cannot reject it. To say it is as valid as a religious theory is dismissive and insulting.

 

I suggest you take a look at: 

http://www.evidenceofharm.com/introduction.htm

http://www.fourteenstudies.org/ourstudies.html

 

for starters.

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#75 of 114 Old 10-28-2013, 03:09 PM
 
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There is nothing wrong with religious debates. Not dismissive either. No-one can prove that God doesn't exist, either. 

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#76 of 114 Old 10-28-2013, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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There is nothing wrong with religious debates. Not dismissive either. No-one can prove that God doesn't exist, either. 

I disagree.


You are implying that nobody can prove that there is a mercury-autism link.

 

It's already been linked.  What hasn't been proven is the degree of causality.  And that CAN be proven, with a vaccinated vs. unvaccinated study.

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#77 of 114 Old 10-28-2013, 04:24 PM
 
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No, it can't easily proven by a vaccinated vs unvaccinated study. That is the problem here. The studies are flawed.

 

You can't just compare unvaccinated children to vaccinated children, and then take the result as a "cause".

 

I had a look at your links. In there, the "scientific research" does exactly that, but it does NOT rule out intervening variables.

 

OF COURSE vaccinated children are a more likely to have disabilities. Non-vaccinating parents in general are anything but stupid and thoughtless when it comes to babycare. While I think their decision in that point is wrong (just as wrong as it is to avoid eggs due to cholesterol or eat more whole wheat) do you really think that a thoughtful, crunchy, non-vaccinating parent will smoke a packet of fags a day, take heroin, drink alcohol, etc?

 

The term "vaccinated children" includes all those in state care whose parents have done great harm to their babies in utero. It includes the babies of smoking parents, alcoholic parents, parents with terrible, terrible diets. Vegan children are less likely to have disabilities, too, and not because vegan diet is best, but because the parents are more thoughtful and less likely to drink, smoke or take drugs. More likely to read books to their children, take them outside, etc, etc. 

 

And as for correlations being used as cause... there is a link between stork density and birth rate., Doesn't mean the storks bring the babies.. 

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Are there any animal studies that compare fully vaccinated to unvaccinated? 


 
 
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#79 of 114 Old 10-28-2013, 05:02 PM
 
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Are there any animal studies that compare fully vaccinated to unvaccinated? 

 

Animals can't get most of the diseases humans get, so what would a vaccination do to them?

 

You could do a study that compares vaxxed vs unvaxxed kids, but it would be VERY difficult to have two groups that are similar in lifestyle, diet, drugs, booze, education, etc.

 

Also because studies that have to exclude variables that people are dishonest about (substance abuse, child abuse and sex are some of those) are notoriously unreliable. And the link would probably be so small that it can be put down to error rate or people lying to themselves about their substance abuse. 

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#80 of 114 Old 10-28-2013, 05:50 PM
 
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No, it can't easily proven by a vaccinated vs unvaccinated study. That is the problem here. The studies are flawed. BUT NAS will publish a study on this - will that be flawed as well? AND you can not make statements that have no merit like - "so many unvaccinated children are autistic"

 

You can't just compare unvaccinated children to vaccinated children, and then take the result as a "cause". or keep harping so many unvaccinated children are autistic can you?

 

I had a look at your links. In there, the "scientific research" does exactly that, but it does NOT rule out intervening variables.

 

OF COURSE vaccinated children are a more likely to have disabilities. ? Non-vaccinating parents in general are anything but stupid and thoughtless when it comes to babycare. While I think their decision in that point is wrong (just as wrong as it is to avoid eggs due to cholesterol or eat more whole wheat) do you really think that a thoughtful, crunchy, non-vaccinating parent will smoke a packet of fags a day, take heroin, drink alcohol, etc?

 

The term "vaccinated children" includes all those in state care whose parents have done great harm to their babies in utero. :dizzy seriously you think this way???  It includes the babies of smoking parents, alcoholic parents, parents with terrible, terrible diets. Vegan children are less likely to have disabilities, too,how about some source here??? and not because vegan diet is best, but because the parents are more thoughtful and less likely to drink, smoke or take drugs. More likely to read books to their children, take them outside, etc, etc. ? where does all this tribble in these two paragraphs come from :dizzy Vegan parents are more thoughtful??? seriously you believe this??? and the meat eater parent - are they trash or what??? I can't grasp this is even here!!!!!!!! this is bizarre 

 

And as for correlations being used as cause... there is a link between stork density and birth rate., Doesn't mean the storks bring the babies.. 

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Many parents who have one child on the spectrum refuse to vaccinate their subsequent children. Fair enough, really, I would do the same. But because there seems to be a genetic component, the subsequent children turn out to have autism as well. Not all, but many. We have many siblings here, one vaccinated, one unvaccinated kid (not hundreds mind you, but about 20), both severely affected by autism. 

 

The NAS will soon publish a study about this.

 

If you visit a school with severely affected children and ask around, you will find the same. 

 

 

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#81 of 114 Old 10-28-2013, 05:54 PM
 
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Animals can't get most of the diseases humans get, so what would a vaccination do to them? ever talk to a vet? know anything about animal vaccines-ones they get, history behind it or anything? know anything about studies done on apes and chimps regarding human vaccines?

 

You could do a study that compares vaxxed vs unvaxxed kids, but it would be VERY difficult to have two groups that are similar in lifestyle, diet, drugs, booze, education, etc. - and you live in a 1st world nation and it's that different to you? WOW!

 

Also because studies that have to exclude variables that people are dishonest about (substance abuse, child abuse and sex?? are some of those) are notoriously unreliable. And the link would probably be so small that it can be put down to error rate or people lying to themselves about their substance abuse. :dizzyCan you attempt to just explain how someone is dishonest about substance abuse, child abuse and sex and how that connected to doing a study on vaccines and autism? I'm clueless here-sex as in??? Do you think parents are too busy having it to get their child vaccinated? or what- really I want to know this! again, WOW!

ETA-

I reread this and the other post (#77 & 79) and had two other people (IRL too!) read what you posted and none of us have any idea what you are talking about. Both post left us extremely confused!

 

It would appear (and PLEASE explain this) that you would draw the conclusion that there could never be a study(s) and it seem based (again- an explanation really would be helpful here) that you have these "ideas" (if they aren't yours and you have facts to back this up - please show that too) that there is such a divide between parents that choose to vaccinate and the unvaccinated, and that their "lifestyle" is so radically different no study could be done - is that correct?

So unvaccinated parents do things so differently from vaccinating parents - is that correct? And you even break it down to say things about vegans vs others - that correct too?

The sex, the abuse, etc really has us baffled here too -do you think somehow vaccinating parents have sex different from unvaccinating and that somehow has an effect on "something"??? and the drug abuse as in the parents during utero? as a cause her for autism?

 

This seems very discriminating and I have never seen anything like this posted, I know all types of people (again IRL) that work with autistic children, various degrees, some medical and none that hold beliefs like this, not even close. Even medical field people I know don't think this way or say things like this.

 

I understand things some times don't translate but this is really way over the top coming from a professional dealing with autistic children.

 

ETA-again, just to be real clear here - you are talking about intercourse when you say sex? or do you really mean the sex of the child - AND you think people would be excluded because they would be dishonest about their child sex???? Read that several times and just don't get it. IRL (because it's a whole lot more real vs this post) I don't know anyone who is lying or being dishonest about their child's sex or lie about it to any medical professional or would lie on a study or survey! :dizzy


 

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#82 of 114 Old 10-28-2013, 06:00 PM
 
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that does not even make sense!

I said IRL (in real life-get it?, not something I don't know is really true, not something I have read or a movie, that is why IRL is used-meanign real, daily life), you go on to say you are -"I wasn't discussing what any ither members here have said." and you precede to talk about numerous posts on the here? - that is NOT IRL dizzy.gif  these are posts, this is a message board 


It's real clear, in real life (as in daily interactions where you see people and interact) I have never meet a child that was unvaccinated and autistic - nope, ones I have meet and their parents have all said basically the same story as to when and how they were prior to being vaccinated. The unvaccinated children and parents (adults) I know also do not have autism and or spectrum disorders and frankly are in great health over all. 

ETA- I have/had grandparents that came from very large families,we have had reunions where I have seen large groups of people that grew up pre-routine vaccines and if they had one vaccine (small pox) that was usually the norm, many didn't even have that, some might have had tetanus (when that was not a combo), the men largely also did not join the military and none were autistic either. I know so many want to always throw this out about unvaccinated and autism - how many have spoken to OLD, yes really old, general practitioners, who have been practicing prior to routine vaccinations and  who treated children for years? Who were the first to see what we are seeing now and recognize autism epidemic as real? It just seem so easy to say so many unvaccinated have autism. How many is that compared to vaccinated?

I'm not sure why you are ranting away here but if it makes you feel better, well rant away but you don't have to be rude about it. I understand what IRL means - no need to school me. I was simply asking you if you acknowledge that there are unvaccinated children who develop autism. There are a number of members here, at least several who have been around long enough to be considered credible, who have clearly stated that their unvaccinated children are autistic. Do you doubt their stories? Think that they are lying about their vaccination status? You seem to be avoiding answering my question.
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#83 of 114 Old 10-28-2013, 06:12 PM
 
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I'm not sure why you are ranting away here but if it makes you feel better, well rant away but you don't have to be rude about it. I understand what IRL means - no need to school me. I was simply asking you if you acknowledge that there are unvaccinated children who develop autism. There are a number of members here, at least several who have been around long enough to be considered credible, who have clearly stated that their unvaccinated children are autistic. Do you doubt their stories? Think that they are lying about their vaccination status? You seem to be avoiding answering my question.

I did answered your question, you just want a totally different answer - IN REAL LIFE the number is 0 - that is what I wrote - I did not write about what "others" post - there is a big difference between reality in daily life and a post! Sorry you don't understand or want something that I did not say to suite your needs - I can not and would not comment on posts - that is not real life - go back a re-read what I wrote - IRL was there for a reason - I have no way (neither does anyone else to say what is posted in 100% true) IF you believe it- that's fine, I don't see what you think you see. AGAIN, I wrote IRL because that states what I observe - how many blogs or posts do people have to comment that they read something off of? Should I say X said this on that website and there was a post on here or there so it must be 100% accurate. Sorry you don't like that IRL was used- too bad

again, where are all these unvaccinated autistic children, IF there are so many why isn't there data that shows this? I don't even see this in the news? where is all this information on these autistic unvaccinated children been hidden?


 

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#84 of 114 Old 10-28-2013, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm not sure why you are ranting away here but if it makes you feel better, well rant away but you don't have to be rude about it. I understand what IRL means - no need to school me. I was simply asking you if you acknowledge that there are unvaccinated children who develop autism. There are a number of members here, at least several who have been around long enough to be considered credible, who have clearly stated that their unvaccinated children are autistic. Do you doubt their stories? Think that they are lying about their vaccination status? You seem to be avoiding answering my question.

Actually, I haven't seen any posts on the vaccination forum from parents of unvaccinated, autistic children.  There may very well be some unvaccinated autistic children, and they may very well have parents who post here, but I haven't seen them.

 

I also personally know one mom who claims that her second son was unvaccinated, even though he was fully vaccinated until it was time for his MMR, which was just about the time his older brother was diagnosed with profound autism.  So this "unvaccinated" second son was eventually diagnosed with Asperger's, and she's going around saying that it couldn't be the vaccines because he is "unvaccinated."

 

There's also the local hospital's practice of vaccinating babies with hep B the day of birth BEFORE obtaining parental consent signatures (happened to my second baby), and the current trend of giving pregnant women flu shots (the majority of which are thimerosal-preserved).

 

I'm sure you'll understand if I don't immediately assume that a child with autism was completely unexposed to vaccines just because the mother said so.  After all, you pro-vaxxers always doubt the word of a mother who says her child's autism symptoms began definitely with a severe vaccine reaction.

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#85 of 114 Old 10-28-2013, 06:24 PM
 
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http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1077468/autism-among-unvaccinated-children


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#86 of 114 Old 10-28-2013, 06:33 PM
 
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well maybe TC can clearly see that I did not even post on that thread and the last posts were in 2011 - I don't spend my time reading 2009 to 2011 posts and I only know of one name on the thread and that person added info not said they had an unvaccinated autistic child - so no, I don't know the other names and NO I do not read post from 2009 to comment on- again IRL is what I wrote and I know none

 

what's going to be twisted next a post made in 2002 or something  :dizzy that EVERYONE should know about ?

 

would love to have my questions answered TC


 

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#87 of 114 Old 10-28-2013, 06:37 PM
 
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After all, you pro-vaxxers always doubt the word of a mother who says her child's autism symptoms began definitely with a severe vaccine reaction.

 

I do not doubt parents who state that their child's autism symptoms appear after vaccination.  I do not, however, make the leap that the vaccine CAUSED the symptoms.


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#88 of 114 Old 10-28-2013, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Chickabiddy, I didn't read all the way through, due to lack of time this evening. But 

1) that thread is from 2009

2)  many of those posting that their unvaccinated kid is "somewhere on the spectrum" make it pretty clear that their child is NOT profoundly autistic.

3)  Many of those mothers also volunteered that they believe that other mercury exposure, such as dental amalgams, were responsible for their child's diagnosed mercury toxicity--which in turn, they believed, caused their child's autism.

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#89 of 114 Old 10-28-2013, 06:47 PM
 
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Chickabiddy, I didn't read all the way through, due to lack of time this evening. But 

1) that thread is from 2009

2)  many of those posting that their unvaccinated kid is "somewhere on the spectrum" make it pretty clear that their child is NOT profoundly autistic.

3)  Many of those mothers also volunteered that they believe that other mercury exposure, such as dental amalgams, were responsible for their child's diagnosed mercury toxicity--which in turn, they believed, caused their child's autism.

and to add, are we now expected to pull up long done post like this one?

 

when it all comes down to what I wrote - IRL (pertaining to me life) and that isn't good enough for TC - I don't have any idea who these mom's even are and the bottom line is I had no way to even know to look for this posts and or thread. so petty and such a desperate attack on me because TC really want a different answer :irked 


 

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#90 of 114 Old 10-28-2013, 08:41 PM
 
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Are there any animal studies that compare fully vaccinated to unvaccinated? 


Sorry about that. I think I need to explain what I meant:

 

I am interested to learn more about the ingredients in vaccines, and how they affect animals. If you take the virus out of the vaccine, but keep all other ingredients and adjuvants, then test the animals, what happens to the group that receives the full schedule? Is it different than the group that receives no vaccines? How do the ingredients--not the viruses--affect the animals? Instead of isolating one ingredient, like Thimerosal or Aluminum, what happens when the animals receive the combination of all ingredients? Children who are fully vaccinated receive all the ingredients, every couple of months, so where is the animal study that proves it's safe? I understand why it would be unethical to do a double blind study with humans.....but what about animals? Where is the study that proves the cocktail of adjuvants and ingredients is safe?

 

These "other ingredients"--not the viruses, concern me.  I believe the combination of ingredients is what causes adverse reactions. If there are animal studies like this, please let me know. I don't think there are, and I wonder why. I know animals and humans might react differently to adjuvants, but at least it's a start!

 

What about a primate study? Inject one group with all ingredients that are found in vaccines, but without the virus. Compare that group to the unvaccinated group. All primates would have identical diets and living conditions, and the only difference would be the injections. Begin at birth, and vaccinate according to the CDC schedule. What would the study find? Would the fully vaccinated group be any different than the unvaccinated group?


 
 
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