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#1 of 42 Old 10-19-2013, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Most articles I read by pro-vaxxers lately start with  :

 

"I am crunchy and I vax!"

 

I find it annoying.  Perhaps because I am non-vax, only moderately crunchy and look more like the following than an earth mother:  

 

 

Stereotypes are annoying.  

 

 

Oh, and while we are at it - I am non-religious, rarely use any kind of meds including alternative meds, eat non-organic stuff regularly and don't hate the government (I half like the Canadian government, although the other half of me does not like them and I could drop-kick Harper……)

 

So - for fun.

 

1. Post a picture of someone who looks like you and how you dress

 

2.  Do this quiz and let us know how crunchy you are.  

http://themoralesfamily.us/granola.htm  

 

I am 133.

 

3.  let us know if you identify as vax on or mostly on schedule, sel/del or non vax  

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#2 of 42 Old 10-19-2013, 01:21 PM
 
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I got a 133. We don't vax. This is not me, however, I have this same outfit and several other colors of said shirt which I rotate thru. Sad I know but, I am constantly on the move and I like to be comfortable. :-)
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#3 of 42 Old 10-19-2013, 03:19 PM
 
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124, (Hint 'o crunch) and selectively vax. Can't upload photos here, but I look pretty non-crunchy. No dreads, no tatts. I look terrible in busy scarves and feel slovenly if I don't shave.

Thanks for the laughs. I, too, get sick of that you-can-vax-and-be-crunchy line. It assumes that we're all making medical decisions for our children based on what the Cool Kids are doing. eyesroll.gif
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#4 of 42 Old 10-19-2013, 03:39 PM
 
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106; I wear jeans and t-shirts or sweaters and sandals or boots; I vaccinate on schedule.

 

The test associates not vaccinating with crunchiness.  If I didn't vaccinate, I would be 121.  So... yeah.

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#5 of 42 Old 10-19-2013, 03:53 PM
 
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150. I think my UC put me into the ultra crunchy bracket! I'm a jeans and t-shirt person. No vax, and eat almost exclusively organic. Definitely lean away from allopathic medicine.
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#6 of 42 Old 10-19-2013, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The test associates not vaccinating with crunchiness.  If I didn't vaccinate, I would be 121.  So... yeah.

The test is meant for fun.  I would not read too much into it.    That being said, I am going to go play with things (such as UC - which I have not done) and see how heavily they weigh it.  

 

ETA:  there were 19 categories.  Most were a 10 point spread, but some (including vaccines) were a 15 point spread.  

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#7 of 42 Old 10-19-2013, 04:17 PM
 
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The test is meant for fun.  I would not read too much into it.    That being said, I am going to go play with things (such as UC - which I have not done) and see how heavily they weight it.  

 

I don't read anything into it.  I just think it's funny that you're offended by this association of not vaccinating and crunchiness and then point people to a test that does just that.  I would be crunchier if I didn't vaccinate.

 

I took the test as if I were my SIL, who is a fantastic mom and decidedly mainstream and got a 30.  She also vaccinates on schedule.

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#8 of 42 Old 10-19-2013, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't read anything into it.  I just think it's funny that you're offended by this association of not vaccinating and crunchiness and then point people to a test that does just that.  I would be crunchier if I didn't vaccinate.

 

Yes, well, I did not vett the test very well.  Bad me.  Putting aside the quiz:

 

Annoyed is not the same as offended.  

 

Turquesa hit the nail on the head when she said:

 

"Thanks for the laughs. I, too, get sick of that you-can-vax-and-be-crunchy line. It assumes that we're all making medical decisions for our children based on what the Cool Kids are doing."

 

The whole "you can vax and still be crunchy" plays into stereotypes.  Of course vaxxers can vax and still be crunchy (isn't this a given?) likewise, non-vaxxers can not vax and not be overly crunchy.

 

 

I took the test as if I were my SIL, who is a fantastic mom and decidedly mainstream and got a 30.  She also vaccinates on schedule.

 

I am not sure what your point is here.  No snark.  

 

  


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#9 of 42 Old 10-19-2013, 04:52 PM
 
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172... so, um yeah, a bit crunchy I guess. :D  We don't vax at all. Jeans and t-shirts are the most practical clothing choices for me so that is what I wear. Here is a pic of the hubs and I.

 

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#10 of 42 Old 10-19-2013, 05:52 PM
 
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Of course vaxxers can vax and still be crunchy (isn't this a given?)

 

I don't think it is a given within the crunchy community.  It's a topic that came up before when they were rearranging the vaccination forums.  Moms that vaccinate often feel like outsiders within natural parenting communities.  Those articles are simply saying, "you're not alone" to people that often feel alone in that choice.  I know it's not a big deal to non-vaxxers who deal with larger social stigma, but it is a big deal to us.  IMO, the quiz you posted perpetuates more stereotypes than those articles, including the one you were complaining about.

 

I took the quiz as my SIL just to see what the range of crunchiness of the quiz is.  I think most people on this forum that take the quiz are going to be pretty crunchy.  Which will prove that vaxxers can be crunchy, but not that non-vaxxers aren't.

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#11 of 42 Old 10-19-2013, 05:58 PM
 
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I look like this:



Oh I'm sorry I meant I look like this:



LOL the last one really is me. Scored 132 on the test. Some of the questions were silly! :-)

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#12 of 42 Old 10-19-2013, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I look like this:



Oh I'm sorry I meant I look like this:



LOL the last one really is me. Scored 132 on the test. Some of the questions were silly! :-)
 

 

 

I just checked your due date.  Dalia - you are due!  (like you don't know that, lol)

 

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#13 of 42 Old 10-19-2013, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't think it is a given within the crunchy community.  It's a topic that came up before when they were rearranging the vaccination forums.  Moms that vaccinate often feel like outsiders within natural parenting communities.  Those articles are simply saying, "you're not alone" to people that often feel alone in that choice.  I know it's not a big deal to non-vaxxers who deal with larger social stigma, but it is a big deal to us.  

 

We just see it differently.  

 

To me saying "you can be crunchy and still vax"  implies crunchiness is the reason people are non-vax and not a well thought out, weighed decision.  To the best of my knowledge, no one here skips vaccines because it is the crunchy thing to do.


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#14 of 42 Old 10-19-2013, 06:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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172... so, um yeah, a bit crunchy I guess. :D  We don't vax at all. Jeans and t-shirts are the most practical clothing choices for me so that is what I wear. Here is a pic of the hubs and I.

 

Just a tad crunchy.  I like the shoes.  

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There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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I no longer use a soft carrier with my 100+ pound 11yo, but I answered yes anyhow because I did for quite some time.

 

147.

 

And I vax on schedule.


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#16 of 42 Old 10-19-2013, 06:46 PM
 
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To me saying "you can be crunchy and still vax"  implies people don't vax because it is a crunchy choice (like an item on a checklist) , and not a well thought out, weighed decision.  To the best of my knowledge, no one here skips vaccines because it is the crunchy thing to do.

 

So you find these articles annoying, but were you annoyed when you got to the vaccination question on the quiz?  Because it literally was a checklist of "crunchy things" and this quiz deems you more crunchy if you don't vaccinate.  To me that is one of many examples that this association exists even within the crunchy community.

 

I don't know, I'm actually quite crunchy - just not when it comes to medical decisions - so I'm more annoyed that I'm marginalized because I choose hospital birth, don't use homeopathy, and vaccinate than the implication that non-vaxxers are more prevalent in the crunchy community.  It's not a big deal because it's not a huge part of my identity, but I can definitely understand where the article authors/meme creators are coming from.

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#17 of 42 Old 10-19-2013, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So you find these articles annoying, but were you annoyed when you got to the vaccination question on the quiz?  Because it literally was a checklist of "crunchy things" and this quiz deems you more crunchy if you don't vaccinate.  To me that is one of many examples that this association exists even within the crunchy community.

 

The quiz had 19 points on it.  Vaccination was just one.  The quiz also deems you more crunchy if you don't wear make-up , homeschool (and I know some very non-crunchy HSers!) and don't shave.  

 

Really, I posted the quiz for kicks.  I admitted I did not vett it very well, and, like Dalia, think some of the questions are a little odd.  So - long story short - I am not going to get into an argument on the quiz with you.  

 

I think we said most of the important stuff here: 

 

Those articles are simply saying, "you're not alone" to people that often feel alone in that choice.  I know it's not a big deal to non-vaxxers who deal with larger social stigma, but it is a big deal to us.  cwill

 

 

"….To me saying "you can be crunchy and still vax"  implies crunchiness is the reason people are non-vax and not a well thought out, weighed decision.  To the best of my knowledge, no one here skips vaccines because it is the crunchy thing to do."  kathymuggle

 

Have a good evening.

 

K.


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#18 of 42 Old 10-19-2013, 08:38 PM
 
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1. Me at the beach....comfortable multicolored dress, crunchy?  Bra...not crunchy.  DD--no sunblock, crunchy?  Bonnet is a hand-me-down that is over 30 years old...crunchy! I think lol.

 

2. Score 111. I bombed! bawling.gif

 

3. No vax, although my first child is fully vaccinated up to age 5. This was before I knew I had a choice!

 

I thought the quiz was fun. I guess I don't fit into the crunchy category so much. I really don't fit into any category. If they made a category labeled "uncategorizable", I might fit into that one. Lol!

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#19 of 42 Old 10-20-2013, 12:49 PM
 
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Got 115

 

Fun test - crunchy or not. There always will be stereotypes. Can't get rid of them just like there always will be prejudice among people who believe differently.

 

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#20 of 42 Old 10-20-2013, 03:32 PM
 
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I think if I started a thread that said "I love chocolate" eventually there would be some kind of crazy argument and people getting offended all over the place! It's silly.
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#21 of 42 Old 10-20-2013, 05:00 PM
 
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That is so true Dalia... some of the longest, craziest fights on Mothering have been over the silliest things.

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#22 of 42 Old 10-20-2013, 05:18 PM
 
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I think if I started a thread that said "I love chocolate" eventually there would be some kind of crazy argument and people getting offended all over the place! It's silly.


FWIW, I'm not offended by the quiz. 

 

I thought the way it was presented, with the lead-up regarding pro-vaxx and crunchy articles being annoying and perpetuating stereotypes, was amusingly ironic.  Perhaps I tried 2 posts too long to get someone else to agree with me.  Oh well.  I think I just don't get what point km is trying to make.

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#23 of 42 Old 10-20-2013, 05:36 PM
 
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FWIW, I'm not offended by the quiz. 

 

I thought the way it was presented, with the lead-up regarding pro-vaxx and crunchy articles being annoying and perpetuating stereotypes, was amusingly ironic.  Perhaps I tried 2 posts too long to get someone else to agree with me.  Oh well.  I think I just don't get what point km is trying to make.

 

Yeah I agree. I am not personally offended by the quiz, but I found it ironic too.  Stating that the vaccine crunchy stereotype was annoying and then linking to a quiz that docked your "crunchy" points off if you vaccinate. Pretty hilarious. 


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#24 of 42 Old 10-20-2013, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am not handing in my quasi-crunchy card because I did not cloth diaper, no one expects me too and I don't go around writing articles or creating memes saying "you can be crunchy and disposable diaper!"  (or inset one of the other 18 points on the thread).  It is a little victim-y (who said you cannot disposable diaper and be crunchy?  And even if someone did say it - why are you (general you) taking it on to the point where you start creating memes and having it as an intro to half the blog posts?).  

 

In any event, I have said (repeatedly) the quiz was meant for fun only and not particularly well vetted.  I am not surprised some people are making that the point instead of the repeated nonsense of "you can vax and be crunchy!"  It is mind-boggling insensitive.  Not a week (nay, a day) goes by even on this forum without a non-vaxxer being called:

 

-a conspiracy theorist

-stupid (or some version thereof)

-selfish

  and for extra bonus points, and thankfully, a little less frequently: 

-a baby killer

-into eugenics

-a liar

 

So, yeah, poor you.  Some people (who are wrong, IMHO)  think vaxxing equals not crunchy.  Call a wahmbualnce.  

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#25 of 42 Old 10-20-2013, 06:45 PM
 
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I don't know, I'm actually quite crunchy - just not when it comes to medical decisions - so I'm more annoyed that I'm marginalized because I choose hospital birth, don't use homeopathy, and vaccinate than the implication that non-vaxxers are more prevalent in the crunchy community.  It's not a big deal because it's not a huge part of my identity, but I can definitely understand where the article authors/meme creators are coming from.

Same. There are many choices I make that I'd rather discuss in the "crunchy" community than in the "mainstream" community. Fr'instance, I am supportive of the choice of using formula, but if I choose to breastfeed (which I did and plan to again), I'd rather get advice from people whose goal is to continue breastfeeding rather than from people who are more inclined to shift to formula fairly quickly. If I'm having a sleep issue with an infant, I'd rather have a discussion in which sleep training isn't a considered option. And so on. But while I'm fairly non-interventionist I am not "crunchy" in terms of my medical decisions (at least, not the way a lot of people seem to define "crunchy"). And I don't like the insinuations that I don't belong here because of that. 

 

I was a little stymied by the question on the quiz about whether I'd use herbals. I would choose a particular herbal if it seemed to be the correct product for my situation, given its individual pros and cons. Just like any other medication or medical intervention. But I wouldn't preferentially choose an herbal over a manufactured pharmaceutical solely on the grounds that it was an herbal. 

 

I scored an 84. I typically wear business-casual tops or T-shirts, with sweaters or sweatshirts depending on my mood, and typically with long skirts. I have short hair and don't wear dreads.


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#26 of 42 Old 10-20-2013, 07:09 PM
 
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I am not handing in my quasi-crunchy card because I did not cloth diaper, no one expects me too and I don't go around writing articles or creating memes saying "you can be crunchy and disposible diaper!"  (or inset one of the other 18 points on the thread).  It is a little victum-y (who said you cannot disposible diaper and be crunchy?  And even if someone did say it - why are you (general you) taking it on to the point where you start creating memes and having it as an intro to half the blog posts?).  

 

I see a lot of parents banding together on Mothering and saying, I'm crunchy, but we eat fast food.  I'm crunchy, but we watch TV and game.  I'm crunchy, but I formula fed my babies.  I'm crunchy, but I choose not to stay at home with my kids.  The natural parenting community can often seem like it has pretty strict rules and it's refreshing for a lot of people to reach out to other that identify with some parts but not others.  I don't know what blog you are talking about, but people make memes about everything so I don't know why that bothers you.

 

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In any event, I have said (repeatedly) the quiz was meant for fun only and not particulalry well vetted.  I am not surprised some people are making that the point instead of the repeated nonsense of "you can vax and be crunchy!"  It is mind-boggling insenstivity.

 

It has nothing to do with the quiz and everything to do with being willing to overlook (fun!) stereotypes from one source, but not from another (who happens to be pro-vaxx).  Insensitivity runs on both sides on this forum.  Non-vaxxers have it worse with marginalization in the real world, but I here am also considered stupid, selfish, a liar, a shill, a sheep, drunk on science, drinking the kool-aid, etc. 

 

The memes have nothing to do with non-vaxxers and your choices.  They are written simply for parents who vaccinate.  I tried to explain that above.  You can continue to read criticism of your choice into them if you choose.  But they seriously have nothing to do with you. 

 

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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post 
 
So, yeah, poor you.  Some people (who are wrong, IMHO)  think vaxxing equals not crunchy.  Call a wahmbualnce.

 

I don't get why you are reading so much into a meme.  But if it bothers you that I might reach out to other vaccinating parents within my community for information, for support, or to occasionally gripe (which is at the most what the meme is doing) then I have nothing left to say. 

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#27 of 42 Old 10-20-2013, 07:15 PM
 
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And another thread bites the dust...

Wife to one amazing husband superhero.gif, SAHM to DS bouncy.gif 10/09, DS babyboy.gif 10/19,  one furbaby dog2.gif, and lots of chicken3.gif!

 
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#28 of 42 Old 10-20-2013, 07:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by dalia View Post

And another thread bites the dust...

Yeah, partly my fault, and I started the thread!  

 

Vaxxers and non-vaxxers do not typically get along online.

 

I don't know if there is too much water under the bridge so we don't cut each other much slack, or some people are more focused on winning or scoring points than anything else.  Probably both.

 

It is kind of ironic - because I actually agree that vaxxers can be crunchy.  It was one of the things I was trying to show with the quiz.  Only 2 vaxxers posted their scores -and one was higher than me and higher than a lot of non-vaxxers on here.  I am simply tired of the way the message is continually delivered.  It seems to be implying people are non-vax because it is the crunchy thing to do - and I do not agree with that at all. 


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#29 of 42 Old 10-20-2013, 08:02 PM
 
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Don't everybody get so down on the thread.  It was a bit of a silly quiz.  I seriously don't know anybody who fits the perfect vision of crunchy, anymore than anybody except Martha Stewart lives like Martha Stewart.  I might have gotten a higher score when I lived out of my backpack and washed my underwear in public library sinks (sorry... gotta do what you gotta do!) and harvested my medicinals off the side of the flippin' road for cryin' out loud.  I even made my own moccasins and washed my handmade clothes about every two weeks.  Compared to that girl, I am a warm, soggy bowl of last week's forgotten mush (that doesn't even make sense, sorry.)

 

Scored a 144.  We have vaxxed in the past, and being a mama who chose a hospital birth for the first and needed a VBAC for the second, instead of a homebirth with or without a midwife, I'm a bit astounded at the level of sensitivity about the vax/non-vax issue here.  

 

kathy, I see why someone would want to post a link to the quiz.  For me it was like questioning, "so what do y'all think about this vision of what crunchy is supposed to be".   

 

I would love to find a picture of what I might look like.  It changes seasonally.  Something like a silver-haired Charlize Theron on a frumpy day, I think :p.  Gotta be, I'm sure.


Give me a few minutes while I caffeinate.
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#30 of 42 Old 10-20-2013, 08:16 PM
 
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*

That's me in the center doing the Hokey Pokey (very carefully) with my daughter.  70's music for the party, so I wore my loudest knee highs.  Love the knee highs, but not usually over my pants.  See?  A shoe-in for Charlize Theron.... if she were 10 inches shorter, 65 pounds heavier.  

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