"Don't Ask, Tell" - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 10 Old 11-05-2013, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I was wondering what everyone thought of this approach. If you don't vaccinate on schedule, how would you respond to a doctor who used this tactic?

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_142182.html

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#2 of 10 Old 11-05-2013, 01:01 PM
 
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I would tell him/her that we were not vaccinating according to the schedule so we wouldn't be doing vaccines at this time.

This tactic will only work for people who don't know that they have a choice and is, IMO, a gross breach of the informed consent process.

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#3 of 10 Old 11-05-2013, 02:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by katelove View Post

I would tell him/her that we were not vaccinating according to the schedule so we wouldn't be doing vaccines at this time.

This tactic will only work for people who don't know that they have a choice and is, IMO, a gross breach of the informed consent process.

Agree. I'd run from such a practice. Reminds of the ER doctor who menaced us with, "It's my duty to inform you that your kids will never be able to attend any schools in this state unless they're vaccinated." I said, "Really? They were enrolled in three already without any problems."

 

 

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"The participatory language suggests shared-decision making, and this isn't necessarily a time to share a decision with parents. There isn't a choice here. There's no other medically accepted option," noted Opel.

Oh, so parents don't get a say in what and how many vaccines THEIR children receive. Nice. Have the doctors acquired custody of the kids in the 5 minutes of the appointment?

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#4 of 10 Old 11-05-2013, 04:00 PM
 
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I had a dr do that regarding flu shots last week. I said we don't do them and he asked why. I told him I don't think they're safe or effective. He went into a 5 min monologue about how fatal the flu is to babies and how it can cause strep pneumonia and it'll kill you in 24 hours. I just nodded and smiled.


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#5 of 10 Old 11-05-2013, 04:12 PM
 
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Actually, the difference in phrasing shouldn't really matter that much. I remember the nurse telling me in the hospital, "Since you're water's broken, I'll start you on some pitocin," and I just said, "Oh, that's not really how I roll. Let's wait for me to start labour on my own."

 

It should be the same idea with vaccines if you are an objector. You just say, not right now, thanks.

 

I agree that the phrase, "What do you want to do about vaccinations?" does sort of imply that the doctor is neutral on them. If he is not, and endorses them, more of a "it'll be time for the vaccination appointment at 2 months" approach may fit his/her style a little more.

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#6 of 10 Old 11-05-2013, 08:39 PM
 
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I agree that the phrasing probably isn't going to make much difference to people who already know they have a choice and have made it.

However, it is amazing how many people don't know they have a choice. Not just about vaccines but about any health care decision. I see this all the time in my job. And I have been guilty of using this type of expression myself (although not with the intent to deceive as described in this article). We, as health care providers should be working on moving away from this type of paternalistic, God-complex, bullying "communication". I'm sure pro-vaccine doctors will be able to think of some way to make their views known. Perhaps "I recommend that my patients be vaccinated according to the [insert country here] schedule. Have you decided whether you would like X vaccinated at 2 months?"

Whether a doctor thinks vaccination should be a choice or not is irrelevant. It is a choice and they have a professional obligation to behave accordingly. I actually think a good argument could be made for this type of recommendation being a breech of the code of ethics. In Australia at least, don't know enough about other countries.

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#7 of 10 Old 11-05-2013, 08:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MichelleZB View Post
 

Actually, the difference in phrasing shouldn't really matter that much. I remember the nurse telling me in the hospital, "Since you're water's broken, I'll start you on some pitocin," and I just said, "Oh, that's not really how I roll. Let's wait for me to start labour on my own."

 

I hate that. That sort of scenario over and over was pretty much my nightmare going into the birth process. My entire birth plan was basically "Ask me before doing anything, don't just tell me", and they did, and it was fine. I know I have a choice but I don't like always having to be the one to say "Waitasec, get away from me with that thing". I want to be ASKED. I feel that is the most respectful approach of me as the patient, or parent. I am very much pro-vaccine but I don't feel that moving the medical profession more in this direction is a good idea. Providers should let parents know of their recommendations and discuss them, not say "We're going to do this now". 

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#8 of 10 Old 11-05-2013, 09:05 PM
 
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I hate that. That sort of scenario over and over was pretty much my nightmare going into the birth process. My entire birth plan was basically "Ask me before doing anything, don't just tell me", and they did, and it was fine. I know I have a choice but I don't like always having to be the one to say "Waitasec, get away from me with that thing". I want to be ASKED. I feel that is the most respectful approach of me as the patient, or parent. I am very much pro-vaccine but I don't feel that moving the medical profession more in this direction is a good idea. Providers should let parents know of their recommendations and discuss them, not say "We're going to do this now". 

I agree, I know many moms who avoid the pedi already because they feel pressured every time they go in. Making it more of an "authority" issue would push people away. Also how many times are we told that a drs personal belief/preference shouldn't be a factor in how he practices medicine? 


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#9 of 10 Old 11-05-2013, 09:09 PM
 
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Also how many times are we told that a drs personal belief/preference shouldn't be a factor in how he practices medicine? 

Personal belief is kind of a separate issue. A doctor's belief about what is medically right should influence how they practice medicine. But there is nothing wrong with saying something like "I recommend X, Y, and Z vaccines for Jacob at this age. How do you feel about getting those vaccines today?" rather than "I'm going to send the nurse in with X Y and Z vaccines". 

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#10 of 10 Old 11-05-2013, 09:14 PM
 
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I am meh about it. I bet telling does work better. It is basic sales/psychology.

What would work best for ME is a willingness to spend an hour discussing the issue w/o preconceived judgements . . .
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