Two sisters claim Gardasil caused their infertility - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#31 of 45 Old 11-16-2013, 07:05 AM
 
MaggieLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 410
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 

 

If you look at the link in my OP you will see this:

 

........

"Dr. Little is on the board of advisors for an Australian Catholic anti-abortion group called Family Life International, whose official patron laments the growth of promiscuity and the “redefining” of marriage (big surprise, the group is against gay marriage as well). On the website is a diatribe against Gardasil, which, FLI gravely notes, is “often associated with promiscuity,” along with a link to a YouTube video of the antivaccine propaganda film The Greater Good. It also turns out that Ward is, as one of my commenters put it, cut from the same cloth, described as a “pro-life obstetrician/gynecologist.” He also apparently helps an antiabortion activist named Stephanie Gray give talks at local churches in Canada in which she shows graphic abortion videos to convince the audience that abortion is “wrong 100% of the time.”

.........

Why does this not surprise me? 

offtopic.gif  offtopic.gifofftopic.gif  offtopic.gif

 

SERIOUSLY? Are somehow trying to connect being someone who has concerns with this vaccine and decides not to shoot it into their OWN daughters with some radical "anti-abortion anti-gay rights" group? SERIOUSLY?

 

Good Lord. The sad and desperate attempt to reach far from the real subject to find something, anything abhorrent to link those who are maintaining the right to NOT be forced to shoot what we consider poisons into our children with unrelated things is beyond glaringly obvious. It reminds me of people who say whomever they don't agree with is "just like Hitler." I call bullshit. One thing has NOTHING to do with an other.

 

You want to shoot this stuff into your kids, I guess you have the right. But, when your right to use these vaccines interferes with MY right to NOT use these vaccines, I start getting upset.

 

So why get upset about someone else's choices? No one is stopping you from shooting this stuff into your kids. however, there is  LOT of pressure (and even laws limiting our freedom of choice)  for those of us who have issues with certain vaccines to be forced to go against our own intelligence and decision making power and often feel we are being forced to accept these vaccines we do not believe are safe or efficacious.

 

I have a child with vaccine injuryI have a right to be wary of any vaccine, new or old. More so new vaccines that are NOT subjected to long term testing before being released to the market.  And I maintain a right to NOT be forced to shoot this stuff into my own children. Gardasil is an unnecessary vaccine. It doesn't prevent any dread diseases, and it DOES have risks. If you want to take them, then it will be on your shoulders if your child suffers an injury..... as it is on mine. I used to be staunchly pro-vaccine, until two different vaccines nearly killed my oldest child and left her with permanent injury. I have every right to believe reports of vaccine injury and to protect the children I brought into this world from further injury.

 

If you had to helplessly watch your baby screaming a high pitched Cri du Chat and twitch for 48 hours after one multivaccine and then later have seizures and develop Acute Cerebellar Ataxia from an other, (and then develop myriad neurological issues from she still suffers from in her late 20s)  and you may change your mind about the delusion of complete "safety" regarding what many of us see as highly dangerous poisons.

 

I don't need to be told that I'm "just like" or even similar to some right wing nut bag who is "anti-abortion and anti-gay."  Plus, aren't we NOT supposed to bring the abortion debate onto MDC?

 

I reserve the right for people to use vaccines if they think they are safe and efficacious, but I draw the line at being insulted because I feel otherwise.


Attachment Parenting: The radical notion that children are human. bfinfant.gif
MaggieLC is offline  
#32 of 45 Old 11-16-2013, 01:48 PM
 
ma2two's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 

 

"Dr. Little is on the board of advisors for an Australian Catholic anti-abortion group called Family Life International, whose official patron laments the growth of promiscuity and the “redefining” of marriage (big surprise, the group is against gay marriage as well). On the website is a diatribe against Gardasil, which, FLI gravely notes, is “often associated with promiscuity,”

Why does this not surprise me? 

 

If that doesn't surprise you, does it surprise you when you find out someone with concerns about Gardasil is pro-choice, and pro marriage equality? Can you explain how such issues are related to concerns about the safety and efficacy of Gardasil?

applejuice likes this.
ma2two is offline  
#33 of 45 Old 11-16-2013, 02:55 PM
 
Viola P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 850
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Apparently the Japanese government very recently and reluctantly issued a warnin about it as women were becoming paralyzed from it?! Messed up. Sometimes I really wonder how the future generations will judge us, we will probably appear so limited and barbaric
applejuice and BeckyBird like this.
Viola P is offline  
#34 of 45 Old 11-16-2013, 02:57 PM
 
Viola P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 850
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Viola P is offline  
#35 of 45 Old 11-16-2013, 03:00 PM
 
Viola P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 850
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
@maggie holy shit I'm so sorry for you and your daughter. Thanks so mich for sharing. I have refused all vaccines for my son except quadracel (because I wanted the tetanus). It's so hard to stay firm with such irrational emotive rage against those of us who dare to question the machine.
applejuice likes this.
Viola P is offline  
#36 of 45 Old 11-16-2013, 07:04 PM
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,369
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viola P View Post

@maggie holy shit I'm so sorry for you and your daughter. Thanks so mich for sharing. I have refused all vaccines for my son except quadracel (because I wanted the tetanus). It's so hard to stay firm with such irrational emotive rage against those of us who dare to question the machine.


Sorry to hear that as well

Regarding the post if you've got nothing you resort to......eyesroll.gif Sick and just a distraction!
MaggieLC likes this.

 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
#37 of 45 Old 11-17-2013, 09:37 AM
 
MaggieLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 410
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Thank you for the care about my daughter. She had some serious reactions to three different vaccines, the DPT, the MMR and HiB. The DPT and MMR reactions were severe. I was young when I had her and thought I was "doing my civil duty" by vaccinating her, and got a brain injured child in return. She's in her mid 20s now, is quite intelligent and functional but has residual fairly severe neurological problems. She probably would have had some of them, but I do feel the severity of her issues, as well as the addition of others was related to the vaccine reactions.

 

 I did ask after the MMR landed her in the hospital with Cerebellar Ataxia and seizures if the vaccine could be related. I related the screaming and twitching after her first and second DPT and even a reaction the Hib, which was new at the time and that doesn't often have reactions, and was told no. When I requested her records, I didn't realize immediately, but the DATE of the vaccine was changed to the week after she was hospitalized. I complained about it and was told either I was wrong about the "timing" or it was a clerical error.

 

THIS is one of the many reasons so many severe vaccine reactions don't get reported. OUR FILE WAS CHANGED. Of course, it's 25 years after the fact and there isn't anything I can do.

 

Thank you for your caring about my child. :heartbeat:grouphug 

BeckyBird likes this.

Attachment Parenting: The radical notion that children are human. bfinfant.gif
MaggieLC is offline  
#38 of 45 Old 11-18-2013, 07:04 AM
 
Taximom5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,198
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)

MaggieLC, thank you so much for posting about your daughter's experience, and for shedding some light on the issues surrounding vaccination.  

 

You are absolutely spot on in every point you make.  And I love how you dealt with the obvious effort to distract us from the facts/vilify the vaccine questioners--calling out the BS, AND refocusing on the actual issue!

MaggieLC likes this.
Taximom5 is online now  
#39 of 45 Old 11-18-2013, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 1,515
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 383 Post(s)

Sorry, can't respond to everyone but I will try and touch on a couple points. 

 

First, you (general you) can try and argue that a court ruling = scientific evidence that something causes a certain reaction until the cows come home but that doesn't make it true.  A good example is the case of Dow Corning from the 1990s.  It was a huge lawsuit that claimed that silicone breast implants were responsible for tons of auto immune diseases when epidemiological studies showed that they didn't. The courts ruled against Dow Corning but that does *not* mean that silicone implants cause auto immune diseases. It just doesn't. 

 

@Maggie As has been pointed out to me several times, you can only copy 100 words from an outside source. Also, I didn't see any link provided.  The Diane Harper thing has been hashed out several times by other people and I am not going to go through it again.  Anyone who is interested can look at Sciencebasedmedicine, Orac, SkepticalRaptor for more information.  Just some quotes from her

 

“I did not say that Cervarix was as deadly as cervical cancer. I did not say that Cervarix could be riskier or more deadly than cervical cancer. I did not say that Cervarix was controversial, I stated that Cervarix is not a ‘controversial drug’. I did not ‘hit out’ – I was contacted by the press for facts. And this was not an exclusive interview.”

 

"I remain a vaccine supporter; and am grateful that GSK and merck have developed the vaccines." 

 

Yes yes I know what is coming next.... claims that there is some conspiracy and that she is being forced by pharmaceutical companies to say these things *yawn*..... the truth is that she was simply misinterpreted. 


“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson 
teacozy is offline  
#40 of 45 Old 11-18-2013, 10:40 AM
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,369
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 

Sorry, can't respond to everyone but I will try and touch on a couple points. 

 

First, you (general you) can try and argue that a court ruling = scientific evidence that something causes a certain reaction until the cows come home but that doesn't make it true.  A good example is the case of Dow Corning from the 1990s.  It was a huge lawsuit that claimed that silicone breast implants were responsible for tons of auto immune diseases when epidemiological studies showed that they didn't. The courts ruled against Dow Corning but that does *not* mean that silicone implants cause auto immune diseases. It just doesn't. 

 

 

don't you have any vaccine cases to cite?

 

 

oh, things aren't connected are they? :irked

 

http://www.hngn.com/articles/17573/20131118/birth-control-could-cause-blindness-oral-contraceptive-use-for-over-3-years-raises-glaucoma-risk.htm

 

still no reason to test how a vaccine might effect another section of the body!


 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
#41 of 45 Old 11-18-2013, 10:46 AM
 
chickabiddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,492
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Quote:
 the team was not able to find a causal link between oral contraceptives and glaucoma

Carseat-checking (CPST) and WAH mama to a twelve-year-old girl.
chickabiddy is offline  
#42 of 45 Old 11-18-2013, 03:07 PM
 
Viola P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 850
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Teacozy personifies - to a degree that is almost cliche - how angry the vaccine defenders are.

The bottom line is that we should all have this choice. It would be SO BAD if the government could legally require vaccines for so many reasons. Thank God for freedom of choice.

As for the legal issues, the standard of proof for civil cases I the US as in elsewhere is "more likely than not", which means that a judge came to the conclusion after reviewing massive amounts of medical evidence that it is more likely than not that the vaccine caused the injury. That's good enough for me to think twice about injecting it into my babe. Let the girls decide for themselves when they are older.
Viola P is offline  
#43 of 45 Old 11-18-2013, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 1,515
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 383 Post(s)

Can we please stop with the straw man arguments? No where have I said that I think parents should be forced to give their child a Gardasil vaccine.  That is not what this debate or my OP was about at all. 

 

@serenbat I purposefully chose a non vaccine related medical ruling because a lot of people believe that virtually *any* condition is linked to vaccines.  So any example I provide that involves a vaccine is likely to be rejected.  Just to humor you,here's a pretty classic case (scientifically speaking) of this kind of ruling. 

 

"In 2006, for example, Dorothy Werderitsh claimed in the vaccine court that a hepatitis B vaccine had triggered an autoimmune response in her brain that led to multiple sclerosis. Two large studies had clearly shown that hepatitis B vaccine could neither cause nor exacerbate multiple sclerosis, but the court ruled in favor of Ms. Werderitsh, elevating a hypothesis above epidemiological evidence." http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/31/opinion/31offit.html

 

Paul Offit describes that ruling and the Hannah Poling ruling as an example too "No case, however, represented a greater deviation from the VICP's original standards than that of Dorothy Werderitsh, who in 2006 successfully claimed that a hepatitis B vaccine had caused her multiple sclerosis. By the time of the ruling, several studies had shown that hepatitis B vaccine neither caused nor exacerbated the disease, and the Institute of Medicine had concluded that “evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between hepatitis B vaccine and multiple sclerosis.”2 But the VICP was less impressed with the scientific literature than it was with an expert's proposal of a mechanism by which hepatitis B vaccine could induce autoimmunity (an ironic conclusion, given that Dorothy Werderitsh never had a detectable immune response to the vaccine)." 

 

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0802904 

 

Both of those links also explain the Hannah Poling case as well, for those who are interested. 

 

Of course, I know that most NVers are going to reply " Well OF COURSE the Heb B vaccine caused her MS... what a dumb example!"  which is why I didn't use a vaccine comparison in the first place. 


“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson 
teacozy is offline  
#44 of 45 Old 11-18-2013, 04:26 PM
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,369
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 

Can we please stop with the straw man arguments? No where have I said that I think parents should be forced to give their child a Gardasil vaccine.  That is not what this debate or my OP was about at all. 

 

@serenbat I purposefully chose a non vaccine related medical ruling because a lot of people believe that virtually *any* condition is linked to vaccines.  So any example I provide that involves a vaccine is likely to be rejected.  Just to humor you,here's a pretty classic case (scientifically speaking) of this kind of ruling. 

 

"In 2006, for example, Dorothy Werderitsh claimed in the vaccine court that a hepatitis B vaccine had triggered an autoimmune response in her brain that led to multiple sclerosis. Two large studies had clearly shown that hepatitis B vaccine could neither cause nor exacerbate multiple sclerosis, but the court ruled in favor of Ms. Werderitsh, elevating a hypothesis above epidemiological evidence." http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/31/opinion/31offit.html

 

Paul Offit describes that ruling and the Hannah Poling ruling as an example too "No case, however, represented a greater deviation from the VICP's original standards than that of Dorothy Werderitsh, who in 2006 successfully claimed that a hepatitis B vaccine had caused her multiple sclerosis. By the time of the ruling, several studies had shown that hepatitis B vaccine neither caused nor exacerbated the disease, and the Institute of Medicine had concluded that “evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between hepatitis B vaccine and multiple sclerosis.”2 But the VICP was less impressed with the scientific literature than it was with an expert's proposal of a mechanism by which hepatitis B vaccine could induce autoimmunity (an ironic conclusion, given that Dorothy Werderitsh never had a detectable immune response to the vaccine)." 

 

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0802904 

 

Both of those links also explain the Hannah Poling case as well, for those who are interested. 

 

Of course, I know that most NVers are going to reply " Well OF COURSE the Heb B vaccine caused her MS... what a dumb example!"  which is why I didn't use a vaccine comparison in the first place. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post
 

Legal "proof" is not scientific or medical proof.  It just means that certain conditions were met and the government decided it was cheaper to compensate than fight.  I don't need you to post dictionary definitions.

 

Well Tea, as chickabiddy says!  it's CHEAP! Both Werderitsh & Poling (more than 1.5 million) received compensation 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post
 the team was not able to find a causal link between oral contraceptives and glaucoma

just being snippy? or didn't you see the word "could" in the title?

 

The study was the first-ever to confirm a link between glaucoma and birth control use for three or more years.


 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
#45 of 45 Old 11-19-2013, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 1,515
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 383 Post(s)

Forgot to address this from post #29 

 

"In the clinical studies alone, 23 girls died after receiving either Gardasil or the Aluminum control injection. 15 of the 13,686 girls who received Gardasil died, while 8 died among the 11,004 who received the Aluminum shot. There was only one death among the group that had a saline placebo. What this means is that 1 out of every 912 who received Gardasil in the study died." 

 

In the link provided in that post it says that 21 women in the Gardasil group died and 19 from the placebo group died.  The deaths included 9 car accidents, 8 suicides/drug overdoses, 4 gunshot wounds, asphyxia, breast cancer etc.  Surely you don't  blame the vaccine for these deaths do you? There was one case of brain cancer in the saline group. However, the saline group only had 594 people in it vs close to 30,000 in the other two groups combined so of course more deaths are expected in the latter.  

 

Statements like " What this means is that 1 out of every 912 who received Gardasil in the study died" is very misleading. It implies they died from the vaccine which is clearly not true.  The rate of death in both groups were consistent with what is expected in healthy adult and adolescent populations. 

 

Here is the link that was provided in the post.  I got this information from page 9. http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/g/gardasil/gardasil_pi.pdf


“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson 
teacozy is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off