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#1 of 110 Old 11-15-2013, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Something is bother me, perhaps I haven't read too deep yet, but answer me this:

 

VP=Vaxing  Parent

NVP= Non VP

 

VP: I'm loading my kid up with every vaccine known to man. Boy, I hope my kid doesn't catch whooping cough.

 

NVP: Isn't the point of getting your kid injected with stuff is to "protect" them? I mean, if my kid gets it, your kid should be "vaccinate" against it, and therefore not get it, correct?

 

What are the cases of vaccinated kids getting said "diseases" when vaccinated?

 

Also, I say "diseases" because to me a disease is something  you get and you live with for the rest of your life. No an illness that you can and get over.

 

Dieases:

Meningitis

AIDS/HIV

Polio

Herpes

 

Illness:

Flu

Whooping Cough

Chicken Pox

Measles

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#2 of 110 Old 11-15-2013, 03:16 PM
 
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I will try to answer as a vaccinating parent.  First, though your subjective view may be that whooping cough chicken pox and measles aren't diseases and are illnesses.  They are most certainly diseases.  Something does not have to be chronic to be a disease.    When disease and illness are differentiated between generally illness is used to define the feelings associated with a given disease.  So I won't comment on putting diseases in quotes, but all of things listed as illness are 100% diseases.  I personally disagree with attempts to trivialize whooping cough and measles in particular.  Books about them being fabulous and the insinuation that they can be solved with vitamin c and A (respectively) is not helpful in my view.  If people wish not to vaccinate for them that is their choice, but they are not just a flu or a cold they are serious potentially deadly diseases.

 

I think part of the problem is the assumption that all VP's want others vaccinated to protect their vaccinated children further.  That simply isn't the case for many.  there are a few things that are behind my own concern.  Also, my reasoning for quote "injecting my child with stuff" isn't just to protect my child.  For me personally it provides a civic aspect of being part of a community and protecting others who cannot "be injected with stuff (or vaccinated as most call it). 

 

1.) I am primarily worried about vaccine statuses of others when my child was too young to be protected by vaccines

 

2.)   No vaccine is 100% effective.  And the more people who are vaccinated the closer we can get to eradicating diseases.   Also not all people can vaccinated.  Immuno-comprimised for example.  Also some people don't develop immunity to all diseases or respond to vaccines.  My mother had measles as a child, she has also had the MMR.  her Titer comes back that she is not immune.  Eradicating diseases aid in theses situations and protect more people

 

3.)  I am concerned with more than just my own child.  I believe in a communal point of view and a best interest of humanity.  It isn't just my child I don't want to get whooping cough, polio, measles etc.  It is all children.  I hate to hear of any child suffering with whooping cough as in your example.   I don't want my child to have friends who are suffering from VPD even if my child never contracts it.  It doesn't make it easier to watch or hear of others suffering either.

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#3 of 110 Old 11-16-2013, 04:54 AM
 
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How is meningitis a disease but measles is not? You get over meningitis, my little boy had it twice. Just as you get over measles. Or you don't and you die. 

 

Like the PP, when vaccinating, I don't just think about my own child, but others, too. Just like others have thought about mine when vaccinating on schedule and he couldn't get them. If my child had measles and gave it to a newborn accidentally, I would be MORTIFIED. We had to delay severely due to illness (or disease?), but he is now catching up on his shots and will have had them all before DS2 is born. No side effects so far at all. 

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#4 of 110 Old 11-16-2013, 07:13 AM
 
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I think it is very easy & popular to claim altruism when vaccinating but IMO it is rarely, if ever, the primary motivation for vaccinating one's children.

I know a LOT of vaccinating parents who then go on to totally ignore exclusion rules.

Protecting 'society' involves much more than Vax, it involves observing exclusion policies faithfully, notification, appropriate nutrition including Breastfeeding where possible, monitoring local outbreaks, adult immunizations, tobacco & alcohol abstinence/cessation, advocating broadly for nutrition policy, etc. I believe we all chose our contribution to the 'herd'.
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#5 of 110 Old 11-16-2013, 07:59 AM
 
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I think it is very easy & popular to claim altruism when vaccinating but IMO it is rarely, if ever, the primary motivation for vaccinating one's children.

I know a LOT of vaccinating parents who then go on to totally ignore exclusion rules.

Protecting 'society' involves much more than Vax, it involves observing exclusion policies faithfully, notification, appropriate nutrition including Breastfeeding where possible, monitoring local outbreaks, adult immunizations, tobacco & alcohol abstinence/cessation, advocating broadly for nutrition policy, etc. I believe we all chose our contribution to the 'herd'.

 

Altruism isn't just "easy and popular", it is a way of life for people. I could 'let' my child rely on herd immunity, but now that is finally safe for him to be vaccinated, I will do it. I am paying it forward. After neurological rehab and a special needs status at school and now having made friends with parents whose kids are still severely ill, I am altruistic and take the 1 in a million chance of fatal complications for THEM. I also donate money, plasma and time to other people. 

 

I live in a society, I want things that other people produced. I rely on the NHS and tax payers, because I wouldn't be able to pay the intensive care and rehab bills for my child (it would be close to a million by now). My prescriptions and hospital stays are free, almost everything I consume has been produced by others. I have always been a social person, worked in social work, certainly not for the money... I recycle. I buy organic whenever I can. I help my neighbours when they need help lifting things or dogsitting. 

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#6 of 110 Old 11-16-2013, 08:25 AM
 
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I did NOT say 'altruism is easy & popular'

I did say 'citing altruism as one's main motivation for vaccinating one's children is popular & not typically entirely IMO accurate.' Different statements.

I believe there are many ways to be altruistic, including raising awareness & accountability about pharmaceutical formulations.

We have discussed this here before, but 1 in a million is NOT a real number. It is a trope. It is not the number of severe adverse events of the entire Vax schedule & it could barely be said to apply to any particular brand of any particular vaccine.
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#7 of 110 Old 11-16-2013, 10:24 AM
 
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I think it is very easy & popular to claim altruism when vaccinating but IMO it is rarely, if ever, the primary motivation for vaccinating one's children.
 

 

 

This is what I disagree with. IMO. Altruism comes naturally. People don't "claim altruism", they are altruistic. Not everyone, and not all the time, but altruism is a basic human trait. Vaccinating parents have both in mind. My opinion and experience, so we might have to agree to disagree. 

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#8 of 110 Old 11-16-2013, 10:53 AM
 
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But if you actually believe that severe adverse events are '1 in a million' then there is nothing altruistic about vaccinating, it would just be logical/practical. You would have to believe that severe adverse events are far more common (as I do) for the act to truly qualify as some type of 'sacrifice'. I totally reject that Vax'ing parents have some type of moral high ground. Generally they have a different perception of the risks involved (see threads on VoS about Vax'ing with no reaction).

Really only Vax'ing *individuals* would have that anyway, as you can't be Altruistic with someone else's body. Enlisting one's son/daughter in the Military would not be an example of SELF sacrifice.

(That would be a little like saying that one Circ'ed one's son to protect all of womankind from HPV . . . I would reject that statement on the grounds that the person being Circ'ed did not get a choice).

Basic medical ethics, as defined @ Helsinki states that the medical interests of the individual *must* take precedence over the interests of 'science & society' anyway . .
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#9 of 110 Old 11-16-2013, 11:10 AM
 
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1 in a million is fatality. And THAT is being pessimistic about vaccinations. Being sick after a vaccination doesn't really count for me as "adverse effects" no matter how much the sickness is being exaggerated. Being brain damaged after a vaccination is maybe 1 in 100 000? And who knows if the kid picked up something awful from the Dr Office, like mine often did, without having received a vax there. 

 

Check through some threads on the non-vaxxing board about worries of getting others sick and the comments of posters who see no problem with that, only THEIR children are their responsibility. 

 

I certainly feel that vaccinating your healthy child is more altruistic than throwing a measles party. 

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#10 of 110 Old 11-16-2013, 12:13 PM
 
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Who is throwing measles parties? 1 in a million is a fatality rate for which brand of which vaccine?
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#11 of 110 Old 11-16-2013, 06:59 PM
 
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Check through some threads on the non-vaxxing board about worries of getting others sick and the comments of posters who see no problem with that, only THEIR children are their responsibility. 

Do you live in some utopia? Here in the real world my child IS my own responsibility. Society doesn't help me out- I am left to do it. My child is sick at 1AM I do, no one comes in and helps me out.

I am proudly one that EM is talking about!

In the real world where I live society is not looking out for my child, really quiet the opposite!

If you have a child that is one of those EM feels is so rare (brain damaged) you are NOT flooded with societies help- that is not how it works.
Society does not help you hire a lawyer to fight in the vaccine court and besides you are too busy trying to take care of a brain damaged child to even have the time in most cases to work a real job and earn what you need for therapy for your child. If you are EXTREMELY lucky you live in a state that society deems to able to allow your child to go to school until age 21-after that good luck with what to do with your now adult vaccine damaged child. Also at 18 you have to spend money to petition the state to continue to allow you to be your child guardian. Need help after age 21, well you better have tons of money, your child might get some SS but that won't cover much, private insurance is out of the question for most too. Need respite care- good luck with society knocking on your door at midnight and just helping you out. Need to take care of an elderly parent too- well that might mean the pittance in SS your child got now will stop because your household income is all combined but your needs for taking care of that child hasn't changed one bit. Where are all those who vaccinated their children now? I have a friend In that exact situation and "society" is not banging down her door to help the greater good here.

Society isn't protecting my child I am and I know that if something happens to my child the majority of care is up to me to do.

I'm not letting my child take one for the herd of "society". If the rest of society cared so much ( as is claimed every time this subject comes up) society would really care in all aspects-so far it doesn't.

Society is doing me no favors when it over uses antibiotics and makes many diseases drug resistant. Society that views parents that do not vaccinate their child as not looking out for others is insulting to those who hold strong religious beliefs against vaccines. I may find ones religious values goofy as can be, but they have the right to hold it no matter what I feel. Saying they are not looking out for others or implying it is an a front to their rights and beliefs.

People still have some rights here where I am. As adults we also have rights to our vaccine statics, that tends to be over looked and it's just so easy to say its the parents not vaccinating their children that is hurting others in society. Where I sit we DO NOT have mandatory sick leave and many adults are the ones not up to date, not able to properly be treated for diseases - be it lack of insurance, lack of time off or simply lack of ability to be vaccinated.

On top of all this society seems fixated on blaming non-vaccinating parents but seems oblivious to the overall conditions of all of society in regards to NON-VPD health issues. The falsehood that vaccines are "preventable" -IMO is so much the cause. IRL I have yet to meet anyone that vacces that does not think they are100%- most lower level medical ( LPN and even some Rn's) and even some MD feel relations don't really happen, nor do they even acknowledge there are real issues concerning them not being 100%effective.

I'm not exactly sure what the OP means by the understanding of illness vs disease here.

I do know society and those who view vaccinating the heard this great thing, really should look first at how they insult others, but more over should look at the much larger issues here- the common cold and how many adults can't afford to take off and even get over it- those people die each year too. No vaccine to blame here. VPD are not the top killers of diseases nor where they prior to mass vaccinations.

They "preventable" part many seem to confuse and rely on it's false hope. Currently infection and the large amount of drug resistant antibiotics to treat what use to be simple is a real concern to society-IMO but continuing to use non- vaccinating parents as scapegoats is just so much easier!
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#12 of 110 Old 11-16-2013, 07:00 PM
 
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Who is throwing measles parties? 1 in a million is a fatality rate for which brand of which vaccine?

I don't understand it either!

 

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I agree completely with Dakotacakes and EineMutte - for me vaccinating isn't just about protecting my child, but about our family doing our bit for society. We do lots of other altruistic things too - it's not a vaccinate or do the other good things choice - we can choose all (or most) things, and make assessments about the risk/benefit. 

 

That's my viewpoint which I'm sharing. Please don't bash it.


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#14 of 110 Old 11-17-2013, 10:16 AM
 
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I am not bashing your viewpoint, but it is logically inconsistent to say both that 'the risks of vaccinating are so low as to be almost negligible' AND 'we are doing this as an altruistic self sacrifice for society'. If the risks are so low as to be negligible AND you expect a considerable benefit, then it is not an example of sacrifice. It is maybe akin to serving in the military (or really enlisting one's child), but in peace time, in a neutral country, for a big signing bonus & with tuition assistance at the end.

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#15 of 110 Old 11-17-2013, 10:18 AM
 
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When I was a fully-vaccinating-on-the-schedule-put-in-front-of-me parent, I did it because that was what you did.  There was no thought about others.  I never knew about "herd immunity," or anything related to it until I started researching not vaccinating.  There was never a thought about whether you did or didn't vaccinate - you got to a well baby visit, baby gets shots.  End of story.

 

I think learning about how to truly be healthy & sharing that w/ others will go much further to help all of us to be healthy than getting shot w/ questionable injections ever will.

 

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#16 of 110 Old 11-17-2013, 10:26 AM
 
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When I was a fully-vaccinating-on-the-schedule-put-in-front-of-me parent, I did it because that was what you did.  There was no thought about others.  I never knew about "herd immunity," or anything related to it until I started researching not vaccinating. 

 

That hasn't been my viewpoint as a parent who gets vaccines for herself and her child. I know generally about how they work and the basic theories behind how they affect populations. We do vaccinate ourselves partly as a public health measure, and I'm sure many parents do.

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#17 of 110 Old 11-17-2013, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, this certainly has taken off.

 

It's hard to explain my viewpoint, but when my friend who said people better vax their kids to protect hers, it sort of made me a little mad. Because to me, that's your lack of faith in the vaccines you're giving your kid to protect them.

 

I am all for havign your kids exposed to certain things, like my 'illnesses' because THAT builds up your immunity far better than a series of shots. I got ALL of my chicken pox vaccines, and guess what? Still had them. Why was I given somethin that obviously didn't work?

 

That's my point and even my mother said, well if I gave her these shots, why wasn't she protected against it.

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#18 of 110 Old 11-17-2013, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Furthermore, we as a race survived for a LONG time before vaccines were ever thought of.

 

Yeah, people die. It's a fact of life. Some people die before others for one reason or another.

 

You know what can really be constituted as a disease? People paying corporate America millions of dollars to protect them, whether it be vaccinations, war, money, shelter.

 

Thousands die every year from starvation and dehydration due to these illnesses and diseased than the disease itself. People die from inadequate shelter. People die for not paying an electric bill and either freezing to death or heat exhaustion.

 

For me, through proper cleanliness, eating habits and an overall better way of life, a lot of these things can be erradicated naturally, rather than through injections. Injections that contain poisons. Do you want to inject yourself with mercury? Formeldahyde?

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#19 of 110 Old 11-18-2013, 05:16 AM
 
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We also never use to have this divide where one side blames the other for not vaccing.

 

Heard and for the good of society also was not pushed and that card is thrown out now when parents question vaccines.

 

We also use to keep children home from school longer, people use to have sick time and use it.

 

We also use to not do routine well visits (most did not see a Ped), and annually getting physicals in adults - this is relatively new, around the time when "year" flu shots came into being along with "ask your Dr if ___ is right for you"?

 

We now have lots of people with "chronic" illnesses.

 

Yes, our race certainly has survived without vaccines! You would never think so listening to some.


 

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#20 of 110 Old 11-18-2013, 07:09 AM
 
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That hasn't been my viewpoint as a parent who gets vaccines for herself and her child. I know generally about how they work and the basic theories behind how they affect populations. We do vaccinate ourselves partly as a public health measure, and I'm sure many parents do.

 

 

Many of us used to do exactly that, and bitterly regret doing so after vaccines injured our children.


I'm sure that peopled (particularly health care workers) who have become ill after a flu shot feel the same way and more so, as they vaccinated themselves as a public health measure, only to learn that the Cochrane Review found that there is no evidence that giving flu shots to health care workers results in any protection to patients.  And the health care workers who have been fired for refusing this unnecessary shot probably have a few things to say about vaccinating as a public health measure.

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#21 of 110 Old 11-18-2013, 09:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by TakeItSnape 

 

It's hard to explain my viewpoint, but when my friend who said people better vax their kids to protect hers, it sort of made me a little mad. Because to me, that's your lack of faith in the vaccines you're giving your kid to protect them.

 

I am all for havign your kids exposed to certain things, like my 'illnesses' because THAT builds up your immunity far better than a series of shots. I got ALL of my chicken pox vaccines, and guess what? Still had them. Why was I given somethin that obviously didn't work?

 

That's my point and even my mother said, well if I gave her these shots, why wasn't she protected against it.

 

It isn't a lack of faith, it's just an understanding of how vaccines work. No vaccine is 100 percent effective. Maybe my child is in that small percentage of children whose vaccine didn't take. Statistically it's not likely but it is possible.  If diseases aren't circulating around then we don't have to test it. 

 

Doesn't your example of your children getting chickenpox despite getting the vaccine illustrate this point exactly? Sometimes it just doesn't work. Even with "natural" infections the immunity doesn't always take.  But to argue that the chickenpox vaccine hasn't worked in general is just not being in touch with reality.  It is actually rare to see a child with chickenpox these days. That is such a huge difference even just from when I was a kid and I am only in my mid 20s.  No increase in sanitation can be attributed to that, sorry. 

 

"Furthermore, we as a race survived for a LONG time before vaccines were ever thought of." 

 

We as a race survived a LONG time before we had running water, electricity, cars, plumbing, air conditioning, antibiotics, and anesthesia too.  What's your point? you don't think these things improve our quality of life or lifespan?  We are living over twice as long as we used to.  Do we really want to go back to the days when people had 12-15 children in hopes that at least a few would survive into adulthood? Do we want to go back to the (not very distant) time when one grave was filled with 4 or 5 children all dead within a couple days from diptheria?  Where getting a simple infection often meant death because there was no way to treat it? Where women died from "childbirth fever"? Where a child getting a compound fracture oftentimes meant death? Where there was a 30 percent chance that your child would die if they contracted smallpox? Where children lived in iron lungs or were crippled unable to walk from Polio? Does that seems like a better way to live? 


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#22 of 110 Old 11-18-2013, 10:36 AM
 
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We as a race survived a LONG time before we had running water, electricity, cars, plumbing, air conditioning, antibiotics, and anesthesia too.  What's your point? you don't think these things improve our quality of life or lifespan?  We are living over twice as long as we used to.  Do we really want to go back to the days when people had 12-15 children in hopes that at least a few would survive into adulthood? Do we want to go back to the (not very distant) time when one grave was filled with 4 or 5 children all dead within a couple days from diptheria?  Where getting a simple infection often meant death because there was no way to treat it? Where women died from "childbirth fever"? Where a child getting a compound fracture oftentimes meant death? Where there was a 30 percent chance that your child would die if they contracted smallpox? Where children lived in iron lungs or were crippled unable to walk from Polio? Does that seems like a better way to live? Really?

Well this is my point! We are soon to face a massive tipping point, according to those scientist who say the over use may be our down fall - there are many source to find this - here is just one

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/814533?src=rss

 

predictions by some are even the simply broken bone that requires minimal surgery will no longer be able to be preformed http://qz.com/148395/why-americans-and-europeans-may-soon-start-dying-of-infections-like-its-1905-again/

 

and this just came out today

http://www.enewspf.com/latest-news/health-and-fitness/48003-american-academy-of-pediatrics-advises-physicians-to-use-antibiotics-judiciously.html


 

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#23 of 110 Old 11-18-2013, 02:17 PM
 
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I think the point about antibiotics is that many parents throw antibiotics at every single cold, demanding rx from the ped. Most families I know have their kids on antibiotics for ear infections and simple colds at least 5 times a year. Research warns about this kind if overuse clearly. And those parents don't worry about potentially creating superbugs that will leave sll of us vulnerable to bacterial infections yet again. In several cases I was mocked by mothers for not getting an antibiotic for my children's colds. It was insane!
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#24 of 110 Old 11-18-2013, 02:25 PM
 
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I think the point about antibiotics is that many parents throw antibiotics at every single cold, demanding rx from the ped. Most families I know have their kids on antibiotics for ear infections and simple colds at least 5 times a year. Research warns about this kind if overuse clearly. And those parents don't worry about potentially creating superbugs that will leave sll of us vulnerable to bacterial infections yet again. In several cases I was mocked by mothers for not getting an antibiotic for my children's colds. It was insane!

 

When I was a child, I was given antibiotics every three weeks, then had them for two, then had tonsillitis again, got them again. For YEARS. By age nine I was resistant to penicillin. They should have taken my tonsils out way earlier, because after that, I hardly needed them again.

 

DS's ped didn't prescribe them unless she had done a swab and was sure it was a bacterial infection that needed antibiotics, so he hardly got them. When he had meningitis, he was well in the morning complained about a headache by lunch time and was unconscious a few hours later in hospital. The antibiotics worked a MIRACLE. Who knows if they would have worked as well if they had been over-prescribed to him for years? Sometimes you REALLY need them, QUICKLY and can't afford a resistance. 

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#25 of 110 Old 11-18-2013, 02:50 PM
 
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When I was a child, I was given antibiotics every three weeks, then had them for two, then had tonsillitis again, got them again. For YEARS. By age nine I was resistant to penicillin. 

That is not how antibiotic resistance works. YOU don't become resistant to penicillin, the bacteria does. 

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#26 of 110 Old 11-18-2013, 03:34 PM
 
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The problem is that today, yes, pediatricians and doctors DO prescribe antibiotics without even doing a swab/culture. It's a very big problem in the world. I know it both from the US and Germany. The frequent exposure to antibiotics creates resilient superbugs. Antibiotics can be found in your bodily secretions and make it into sewage. Animals are fed antibiotics on a daily basis (mass produce, the nasty "farms" out there, dairy cows, etc). The massive overuse is a really, really big danger.

Antibiotics are great, and I want them to maintain their efficacy. But they will be worthless soon with the current overuse. Imagine bacterial meningitis once all strains are resistant; or bacterial pneumonia and so on. The kidney infections I had would have been my death (bacterial, septic).

 

Examples I know personally: family friend got sick, goes to urgent care and says can't afford to be sick, gets a rx for Zithromax. Ear infections are auto-tickets to antibiotics. I know of a case of an ear infection that didn't clear after amoxicillin, so the child was given another, then another, then another antibiotic. It didn't clear yet the doctor refused a culture or close examination to see whether it was fungal at that point. That callousness puts all of us in danger. EineMutti, your doctor is rare. In the US I always insisted on cultures and they fought me and looked at me as if I had ten heads and reluctantly agreed as I wouldn't relent. That was for me only (recurrent kidney infections), the kids luckily didn't have any so far. Even when we had our first case of pinkeye I was immediately given anti eye drops by my MD family member while I insisted on trying euphrasia eye drops first which cleared the infection within 24 hours.

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#27 of 110 Old 11-18-2013, 03:57 PM
 
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The problem is that today, yes, pediatricians and doctors DO prescribe antibiotics without even doing a swab/culture. It's a very big problem in the world. I know it both from the US and Germany. The frequent exposure to antibiotics creates resilient superbugs. Antibiotics can be found in your bodily secretions and make it into sewage. Animals are fed antibiotics on a daily basis (mass produce, the nasty "farms" out there, dairy cows, etc). The massive overuse is a really, really big danger.

Antibiotics are great, and I want them to maintain their efficacy. But they will be worthless soon with the current overuse. Imagine bacterial meningitis once all strains are resistant; or bacterial pneumonia and so on. The kidney infections I had would have been my death (bacterial, septic).

 

Examples I know personally: family friend got sick, goes to urgent care and says can't afford to be sick, gets a rx for Zithromax. Ear infections are auto-tickets to antibiotics. I know of a case of an ear infection that didn't clear after amoxicillin, so the child was given another, then another, then another antibiotic. It didn't clear yet the doctor refused a culture or close examination to see whether it was fungal at that point. That callousness puts all of us in danger. EineMutti, your doctor is rare. In the US I always insisted on cultures and they fought me and looked at me as if I had ten heads and reluctantly agreed as I wouldn't relent. That was for me only (recurrent kidney infections), the kids luckily didn't have any so far. Even when we had our first case of pinkeye I was immediately given anti eye drops by my MD family member while I insisted on trying euphrasia eye drops first which cleared the infection within 24 hours.

 

She was an excellent doctor. I really miss her, she has retired now and we have moved to the UK. Antibiotics overuse scares me, too, I totally agree with you. Because so often, people NEED them to stay alive, they are one of the greatest inventions ever, they should be used as little as possible and only when there is proof that they are really needed. Or when it is too risky to wait for proof (second time my boy had viral meningitis, but was given antibiotics anyway, was taken off as soon as they saw in the liquor that it was viral, not bacterial. Risk to wait for the cultures would have been too big given his history, but that is rare and does not go for ear infections or simple colds.) In our local GP surgery, there is a large poster saying that antibiotics do NOT work for the virus colds, so please don't just demand them. In Germany, it has got slightly better since the reunification I find, but that might just be my impression.

 

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That is not how antibiotic resistance works. YOU don't become resistant to penicillin, the bacteria does. 

 

That is true. Especially because it was the same infection over and over and over again.

 

Off topic, sorry. 

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I was also on maintenance Abx as a child, first for chronic ear infections caused 100% by a chronic indoor tobacco using BSN (my sweet mama). She didn't believe in opening windows, she just kept her LOs on Abx . . . 

 

Then after a short break, I was put back on them for normal levels of teen acne. Again, daily, for YEARS. We have moved away from these policies, but they are still very very overused.

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#29 of 110 Old 11-18-2013, 04:28 PM
 
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That is not how antibiotic resistance works. YOU don't become resistant to penicillin, the bacteria does. 

 

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That is true. Especially because it was the same infection over and over and over again.

 

Off topic, sorry. 

well you must be the first and only one http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-is-antibiotic-immunit

 

The concept of antibiotic immunity is a misnomer that can lead people to believe that they may become "immune" or "resistant" to an antibiotic if they take it too frequently or inappropriately. This notion stems from a misunderstanding in the general public of the concept of antibiotic resistance.


 

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#30 of 110 Old 11-18-2013, 04:51 PM
 
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We have moved away from these policies, but they are still very very overused.

SADLY we haven't moved too fast (maybe because we can't physically move fast anymore?)  - http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/11/maps-antibiotics-prescriptions-obesity-states


 

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