Mother believes her 19 yr old son died from complications of flu shot - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 85 Old 11-24-2013, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
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http://www.ksl.com/?sid=27747957&nid=148

 

Lori Webb put her assertion in her son's obituary and is warning other families about what she believes are potential hidden dangers of vaccinations.

"I could not believe it," Webb said. "I never in my life would ever think �Your son is in a coma?' How does it happen?"

Lori Webb said her son, Chandler Blake Webb, 19, was the perfect picture of health and was preparing to submit his papers for a mission for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

However, the day after a physical, tuberculosis test and flu shot, Chandler turned very ill.

Within a few days, he was in the hospital for the second time. Within 24-hours of his second check-in, Webb said her son was in a coma. He had previously suffered from numerous severe symptoms, including shaking and vomiting.

"This was his first flu shot," Webb said. "He'd never had one before."

Chandler Webb's family ultimately elected to take him off life support, and he died after 28 days in the hospital.

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#2 of 85 Old 11-24-2013, 12:19 PM
 
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I did hear somewhere that the government decides it's cheaper to compensate than fight headscratch.gif 

 

guess that is why the influenza vaccine has the second highest number of compensation claims on the vaccine court http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/statisticsreports.html#Stats


 

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#3 of 85 Old 11-24-2013, 01:13 PM
 
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:candle  RIP.   


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#4 of 85 Old 11-25-2013, 06:54 AM
 
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Serenbat, thanks for posting that link.  I'm wondering why there is information for...2014???  I mean, how can they know that they have already dismissed claims in 2014?

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#5 of 85 Old 11-25-2013, 09:49 AM
 
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Fiscal year 2014 began on 10/01/2013 (remember the shutdown when the budget was not in place)?


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#6 of 85 Old 11-25-2013, 09:51 AM
 
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I'm deeply sorry for the family.

 

However, since the parents refused an autopsy, cause of death will not be known.


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#7 of 85 Old 11-25-2013, 11:36 AM
 
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I'm deeply sorry for the family.

 

However, since the parents refused an autopsy, cause of death will not be known.

The article says says the mother "elected not to have a autopsy."  I don't know that autopsies are routinely done.  It may not have been offered, in which case, the parents aren't exactly refusing it.

 

Besides, the cause of death was the fact that he was taken off life support.  The cause of the encephalopathy, however, might be found from the brain biopsy, which she did consent to.

 

We know that vaccines can cause encephalopathy.

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#8 of 85 Old 11-25-2013, 11:42 AM
 
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Autopsies are generally offered when healthy teenagers die of apparently unknown causes.

 

We do know vaccines can cause encephalopathy.  I don't believe we know that this boy died of encephalopathy, or if that was indeed the problem, if it was caused by the vaccine.


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#9 of 85 Old 11-25-2013, 01:21 PM
 
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I assume the objection was due to a religious objection and should not count against the mother in the public eye, religious objections are often cited - the story clearly states (and as to others the mother's religion) - so it's easy to understand her objection


 

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#10 of 85 Old 11-25-2013, 01:25 PM
 
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Why would you assume a religious objection?  Mormons don't typically object to vaccines.  Besides, the mother herself had a flu shot.


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#11 of 85 Old 11-25-2013, 01:36 PM
 
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Why would you assume a religious objection?  Mormons don't typically object to vaccines.  Besides, the mother herself had a flu shot.

because it is not about the vaccination, it's about the autopsy

 

http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Autopsy     if the autopsy complies with the law of the community.

a "religious" autopsy often is not what a medical examiner would like-thus the reason many religious sects object to certain types

 

and she DID agree as Taxi stated to the brain biopsy 

 

 

 

Lori has decided not to have an autopsy, deciding that the results of a brain biopsy will be sufficient to determine the cause of death.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2512737/Mother-claims-healthy-son-19-killed-flu-shot-fell-coma-just-24-hours-having-vaccine.html#ixzz2lhBPd9Es 
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#12 of 85 Old 11-25-2013, 01:40 PM
 
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I don't see anything that implies that Mormons are against autopsies.  Still, I don't hold it against the mother in any way.  I just don't think she can state conclusively that the vaccine caused the illness which led to death.


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#13 of 85 Old 11-25-2013, 01:46 PM
 
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I didn't say they were against it - did you read the link?

 

- it states that it has to be to the standards of the church, that often is NOT the exact same as what a medical examiner often does, and clearly this is not just some case where they find a dead 19 alone and no one had seen him in weeks- this is not some random death where you have no clues (thus warranting an autopsy because you simply have NO idea)


 

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#14 of 85 Old 11-25-2013, 01:53 PM
 
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There are so few details available that this is hardly worth commenting on. So what if the brain biopsy does show evidence of encephalopathy? There are many, many things that can cause encephalopathy. 

 

Whatever the cause, that is a horrible story. I can hardly imagine the pain of losing a child like that. It's human nature to want to have something to blame.


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#15 of 85 Old 11-25-2013, 02:00 PM
 
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There are so few details available that this is hardly worth commenting on. So what if the brain biopsy does show evidence of encephalopathy? There are many, many things that can cause encephalopathy. 

 

Whatever the cause, that is a horrible story. I can hardly imagine the pain of losing a child like that. It's human nature to want to have something to blame.

nor can the mother be blamed (criticized) for not allowing the autopsy - clearly he was in a hospitable, they knew how his vitals were, so much information can be obtained (NOT all! but lots) from not having to cut open a body, it is not like she didn't agree to the brain biopsy

 

the mother clearly is grieving, none of us talked to the Dr like her, we don't know all they told her, not have to have go through her son being autopsied is quiet understandable - IMO

 

some autopsies are inconclusive too


 

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#16 of 85 Old 11-25-2013, 02:08 PM
 
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This is a red herring.  No one has criticized or blamed the parents for choosing not to have an autopsy.

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#17 of 85 Old 11-25-2013, 02:23 PM
 
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I don't see anything that implies that Mormons are against autopsies.  Still, I don't hold it against the mother in any way.  I just don't think she can state conclusively that the vaccine caused the illness which led to death.

Exactly. Plus when an autopsy isn't deemed required by the medical examiner the family can still elect to have one done and when that is the case the family can specify what takes place if there is a concern with it fitting within one's religious beliefs.
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#18 of 85 Old 11-25-2013, 11:09 PM
 
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I wonder if another possible reason she didn't have an autopsy done is because "every test for a disease came up negative."
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#19 of 85 Old 11-26-2013, 10:27 AM
 
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What a horrible and sad situation.  

 

As others have pointed out, it's going to be close to impossible to determine his cause of death without an autopsy, which is unfortunate since the family didn't want one. This isn't a criticism, it's just a fact. 

 

While it is certainly possible that the vaccine caused encephalitis, it would be extremely extremely rare. There have only been 4 deaths ever reported from encephalitis due to a flu vaccine in people over the age of 18 in 23 years. All cases were in elderly people, the youngest being 70 years old.  To put that in perspective, around 130 million Americans get the flu vaccine every year. So you are talking about 4 deaths in close to 3 billion vaccines. I believe your chance of dying from the flu each year is 1 in 100,000 if you are under the age of 65. 1 in 100,000 is still a very small number but is obviously much much higher than your chance of dying from the flu vaccine,  even for a non elderly healthy adult.  And let's not forget that between 100-150 children die from the flu every year in the US and that 40 percent of those children were healthy.  So in that same time period (23 years) about 3,450 children have died from the flu. 

 

In any case, as others have pointed out, encephalitis can be caused by many many different things, with the flu vaccine being at the bottom of the most likely causes. 


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#20 of 85 Old 11-26-2013, 07:15 PM
 
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In any case, as others have pointed out, encephalitis can be caused by many many different things, with the flu vaccine being at the bottom of the most likely causes. 

Please list the many many different things that can cause encephalitis in a healthy teenage boy, and tell us which ones are more likely to be a factor than the flu vaccine, and exactly whyyou believe that they are more likely to be a factor than the flu vaccine that he received 24 hours before his symptoms began.


Please refrain from offering us the red herring that correlation does not equal causation. The boy had an invasive procedure that carries a known potential to cause exactly the reaction described, and it happens to be the same reaction suffered by some infants after vaccination as well, and in the same time frame.  This necessarily means that the vaccine remains a possible cause of his symptoms and subsequent death until otherwise proven.

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#21 of 85 Old 11-26-2013, 07:48 PM
 
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I wonder if another possible reason she didn't have an autopsy done is because "every test for a disease came up negative."

 

I heard the mother state this in the interview she gave and read it in several news accounts, I'm sure those tests will be present to the state (since they say they are aware of this death and the claims to the vaccine) along with the biopsy. 


 

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#22 of 85 Old 11-26-2013, 08:48 PM
 
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Just wanted to offer a bit of clarification.  I am Mormon.  I come from a large Mormon family.  I live in a predominantly Mormon community.  

 

Mormons DO NOT have anything against autopsies.  Autopsies are frequently performed on Mormons.  The context of the word "community" was mis-used earlier in this thread.  "Community" in the link provided is referring to the area where the deceased person lives.  If the family gives consent and the autopsy is performed according to the laws of the area where the person lives then it is perfectly fine to do it.  Beyond that, our religion does not have any laws/rules regarding autopsies.  Decisions like that are left to the family to do as they see fit.

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#23 of 85 Old 11-27-2013, 07:51 AM
 
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I heard the mother state this in the interview she gave and read it in several news accounts, I'm sure those tests will be present to the state (since they say they are aware of this death and the claims to the vaccine) along with the biopsy. 

 

Why would the state investigate the death?  If there was to be an investigation they would have required the autopsy.


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#24 of 85 Old 11-27-2013, 09:31 AM
 
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Why would the state investigate the death?  If there was to be an investigation they would have required the autopsy.

the state is not denying they are investigating it - they simply don't seem to be commenting at this time

 

 Utah Department of Health spokesman Tom Hudachko said the state is aware of the case but can’t verify the cause of death or whether it is investigating. 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2512737/Mother-claims-healthy-son-19-killed-flu-shot-fell-coma-just-24-hours-having-vaccine.html#ixzz2lrszFm3u 
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#25 of 85 Old 11-27-2013, 11:33 AM
 
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They're "not denying" the Loch Ness Monster either.  That doesn't mean much.


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#26 of 85 Old 11-27-2013, 01:51 PM
 
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They're "not denying" the Loch Ness Monster either.  That doesn't mean much.

Yup. If they were investigating the death an autopsy performed before the body was released to the funeral home would have been an absolute certainty.
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#27 of 85 Old 11-27-2013, 03:57 PM
 
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Millions of people get shots and millions of people get sick. It would be quite impossible for the two to not coincide sometimes. 

And the dailymail isn't a real newspaper, it's a joke.

 

However, I completely understand the mum wanting to blame something or someone, I am so sorry for her loss.

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#28 of 85 Old 11-27-2013, 04:12 PM
 
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Yup. If they were investigating the death an autopsy performed before the body was released to the funeral home would have been an absolute certainty.

no , it's doesn't  - you have tests that were done prior, and also a postmortem biposy as well, many state health depts also look into what tests were and were not conducted and how the hospitable performed regarding his care, it can be a number of reason they can and often do investigate and the specifics are not always made public right away

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Originally Posted by EineMutti View Post
 

 

And the dailymail isn't a real newspaper, it's a joke.

 

 

it was a direct quote and it's an AP piece besides, you can find it in dozens+ of papers - same exact quote - how many paper does an AP story have to come from?  it was in my local paper as well- the quote remains the same - it wasn't altered - the daily mail simply reprints AP things

 

how about the quote form another paper -  http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57169475-78/flu-webb-effects-son.html.csp


 

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#29 of 85 Old 11-27-2013, 05:06 PM
 
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no , it's doesn't  - you have tests that were done prior, and also a postmortem biposy as well, many state health depts also look into what tests were and were not conducted and how the hospitable performed regarding his care, it can be a number of reason they can and often do investigate and the specifics are not always made public right away

If there was even a doubt about cause of death the medical examiner wouldn't have released the body without an autopsy, eapecially in the death of someone so terribly young. Unexplained deaths are always medical examiner cases. Also his personal doctor never would have signed the death certificate if the death was unexplained & that would force the medical examiner to be the one to certify the cause of death on the death certificate. At least in our area medical examiners tend to err on the side of caution.
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#30 of 85 Old 11-27-2013, 05:23 PM
 
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Taxi, everyone has access to google and the capabilities to type in "causes of encephalitis". Not one of us have access to this kid's medical files or the ability to do the kind of public health detective work that answers the question of this particular 19 yo, gym going, male Utah resident's likeliest causes of his symptoms and death.

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