Brand New Pertussis Study: Let Us Discuss - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 66 Old 11-25-2013, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I wonder which DTaP they used? I have been reading that GSK DTaP & Sanofi DTaP work differently . . .

http://news.yahoo.com/whooping-cough-shot-cuts-illness-maybe-not-spread-203331511--finance.html

This seems to confirm a non-Vax argument about the Vax not preventing transmission, with the caveat that coughing certainly is a better propellant than breathing!
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#2 of 66 Old 11-25-2013, 06:07 PM
 
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appears they tested both - http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/whooping-cough-shot-cuts-illness-spread-21008737 since they both said they really can't say much

 

Versions of the vaccine are made by two companies — Sanofi Pasteur and GlaxoSmithKline. A GSK spokesman said the company didn't have enough information on the study to comment. Sanofi said in a statement that it's not clear how well the findings translate to humans, and that many factors may contribute to recent surges in whooping cough. It also said the research contains "valuable information" and points to areas for further study.

 

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2013/11/vaccination-whoopingcoughjennymccarthytdap.html

 

 

 

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6204a2.htm this talks about ADULT rates, yet where is the blame alway placed? does anyone have any more current adult rates?

 

it is under - Tetanus Vaccination Coverage

I can not post the data due to the word count from the previous link I provided - but the adult number are LOW

 


 

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#3 of 66 Old 11-25-2013, 06:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't think it means they tested both just b/c both companies gave statements. Can anyone access full text?
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#4 of 66 Old 11-25-2013, 06:37 PM
 
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I don't think it means they tested both just b/c both companies gave statements. Can anyone access full text?

the study says vaccineS - I take that to mean the two currently in use in the US

 

 

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/11/20/1314688110

Although pertussis resurgence is not completely understood, we hypothesize that current acellular pertussis (aP) vaccines fail to prevent colonization and transmission.


 

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#5 of 66 Old 11-25-2013, 06:39 PM
 
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Isn't pertussis contagious before the cough sets in?

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#6 of 66 Old 11-25-2013, 10:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well I can't get full text w/o $$$ so we won't know what they used, but here is another question that came up . . .

The NYT article quotes a researcher as saying 'when you're newly vaccinated you are an asymptomatic carrier.' But based on my reading of the study abstract, the Baboons only became asymtomatic carriers when they were intentionally exposed post-vax? It is an important distinction: 'are asymptomatic carriers' vs. 'could become asymptomatic carriers'?!?
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#7 of 66 Old 11-25-2013, 10:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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#8 of 66 Old 11-26-2013, 04:14 AM
 
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Well I can't get full text w/o $$$ so we won't know what they used, but here is another question that came up . . .

The NYT article quotes a researcher as saying 'when you're newly vaccinated you are an asymptomatic carrier.' But based on my reading of the study abstract, the Baboons only became asymtomatic carriers when they were intentionally exposed post-vax? It is an important distinction: 'are asymptomatic carriers' vs. 'could become asymptomatic carriers'?!?

the cost to read it is $10.00 - you can access it from the link I provided.

 

regardless to me, what is said in the NYC or in the abstract, rather you can spread prior or a few weeks later, bottom line is you can spread it - ending this story in all the papers is how it is so important to vaccinate and cocoon around that newborn - I find this nutty! if you are a spreader prior and / or right after, doing so right around the time of the birth (as many grandparents, caregiver, sibling, etc) are encouraged to do is just asking for problems-IMO 

 

if it doesn't work (and that seems to be the gist of the research) post vaccination exposure seems to be happening in the general population with those who are vaccinated and I did find this interesting (since many that do not support the vaccine have been saying this) - the whole notion if you get it  you recover fast, etc but that also does not seem to be the case either.

 

Baboons vaccinated with aP were protected from severe pertussis-associated symptoms but not from colonization, did not clear the infection faster than naïve animals, and readily transmitted B. pertussis to unvaccinated contacts.

 

 

what I would feel more PRO-vaccers and those who support this vaccine, should really be concerned about is the CDC report that on the vaccine rates among health care workers since they are the ones that are giving it out 

 

During 2005–2011, Tdap vaccination of health-care personnel (HCP) (26.8%) was 6.5 percentage points higher than the 2010 estimate (Table 3). White HCP had higher Tdap coverage (27.2%) compared with black HCP (21.7%). Compared with 2010, Tdap coverage increased for Hispanic HCP (by 16.3 percentage points to 30.1%) and was similar to that of white HCP.


 

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#9 of 66 Old 11-26-2013, 05:36 AM - Thread Starter
 
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MSM can't really be trusted to get the facts of a study straight . . . Spreading is certainly an issue, but I am still reading it as 'you can spread it, IF exposed'. The question then becomes: 'is there an advantage to being a symptomatic carrier?'

IMO, in a school scenario, where someone can be withdrawn & quarantined, there is an advantage to being able to identify symptomatic individuals. However not so much with say, a household scenario, where one cannot quarantine siblings from each other easily . . .
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#10 of 66 Old 11-26-2013, 06:55 AM
 
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This might be the full text - or a precursor.

 

2012, same author, same subject matter.

 

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http://iai.asm.org/content/80/4/1530.full


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#11 of 66 Old 11-26-2013, 09:17 AM
 
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Spreading is certainly an issue, but I am still reading it as 'you can spread it, IF exposed'. That appears how the abstract states it to be.  The question then becomes: 'is there an advantage to being a symptomatic carrier?' Isn't the question - how would you know you were a carrier? Are we now going to test everyone that get the vaccine? As with the other thread by Turquesa, I feel that really would really do a number on confidence to tell a parent their child has to get retested and at what vaccine boost or at all?! And what, if you never appear to be a symptomatic carrier - in the long run, how does this work out? How long does one spend quarantined? 

IMO, in a school scenario, where someone can be withdrawn & quarantined, there is an advantage to being able to identify symptomatic individuals. However not so much with say, a household scenario, where one cannot quarantine siblings from each other easily . . .First you have to do better testing when you first suspect, and hopefully this will make it a bigger deal and more will be tested, but what a mess this make! Mom re-gets a shot when she's expecting say #2, the first one brings it home and is a carrier - ah, BIG mess, is draws into question, would genetics be involved here? Family member getting tested?

 

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MSM can't really be trusted to get the facts of a study straight . . . 

what organization is MSM? or are you just saying mainstream media here?

 

NYT does do correction in their health/science section if they error and you can add FB to question something in the story too


 

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#12 of 66 Old 11-30-2013, 08:15 AM
 
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Interesting links, thanks.

What else I find interesting is that this was a government funded study. So how does this fit in with the idea that the government is so corrupt that they only publish studies that show vaccines in a good light? Or that they manipulate data to make vaccines look effective? Just curious.

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#13 of 66 Old 11-30-2013, 10:22 AM
 
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Interesting links, thanks.

What else I find interesting is that this was a government funded study. So how does this fit in with the idea that the government is so corrupt that they only publish studies that show vaccines in a good light? Or that they manipulate data to make vaccines look effective? Just curious.

Let's not paint with broad strokes.  Vaccine -questioners have an array of beliefs regarding the government.  On MDC, we do not even all come from the same country.  I have no significant issues with the Canadian government., at least in comparisons to other governments.  We have one of the highest qualities of living in the world.  Doesn't mean I don't want to drop-kick Harper though...and it certainly doesn't mean that I agree with every single decision, mandate, recommendation. At a minimum, I don't think recommendation for the masses (which is what governments provide) necessarily apply to individuals.

 

I do, occasionally, see points brought up in studies or articles that raise concern about vaccines.  The conclusions though, are usually the same - we should ignore any details, study it more and vaccinate anyways.  The spin, whether it is from pharmaceutical companies or governments, is usually towards vaccination.  The reason for this are long; corruption is only one of numerous reasons.


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#14 of 66 Old 11-30-2013, 10:47 AM
 
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Interesting article. I have to say, I would personally prefer to be asymptomatic for my own comfort. However, we (dh and I) chose not to vaccinate ourselves against pertussis as adults are more likely to have a bad reaction to the vaccine than children. (ds was vaccinated on schedule for pertussis.) Now I don't have to feel slightly guilty about that choice any more, as it appears it wouldn't have reduced his risks as much as advertised, anyway.

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#15 of 66 Old 11-30-2013, 05:34 PM
 
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I do, occasionally, see points brought up in studies or articles that raise concern about vaccines.  The conclusions though, are usually the same - we should ignore any details, study it more and vaccinate anyways.  The spin, whether it is from pharmaceutical companies or governments, is usually towards vaccination.  The reason for this are long; corruption is only one of numerous reasons.

 

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Interesting links, thanks.

What else I find interesting is that this was a government funded study. So how does this fit in with the idea that the government is so corrupt that they only publish studies that show vaccines in a good light? Or that they manipulate data to make vaccines look effective? Just curious.

just like so many other studies have been in the past!

one part of the govt may have a hand in the study, that doesn't mean that the rest just follow suite or do so fast

clearly in this case they see a problem and a big one at that - but nothing thus far is being done, Dr's areN'T (are not) telling patients to stop the vaccine, they simply can't because another part of the govt hasn't given the recommendation to do so, and yet ANOTHER part has to check into the effectiveness and go through yet another list of procedures to (if they do) withdraw the vaccines - this is all time IF it even happens!

 

we see how long this takes with medications and studies, we see it with other forms of medical procedures too    IRL- someone I know when for their yearly cholesterol check up, the Dr didn't even mention the new guidelines, they brought it up, the Dr admitted he didn't read all he needed to so their meds weren't changed - what a waisted visit! at least the Dr was honest, but the doesn't help my friend who should be reassessed 

 

studies have come out in the past on imperfect immunity on certain vaccines, have we see much implemented? as Kathy said - the wind always blows in the "just go do it" direction

 

the very sad part is - MOST parents have no idea about this study, no medical professional can even start to really bring it up to the patient until yet another part of the govt gives the OK to do so

 

mean time what do we have? 

how many will die before action is taken?

how many more parents, even if they do know about this study, will still act out of fear and just go vaccinate and possible cause yet more harm? 


 

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#16 of 66 Old 11-30-2013, 07:34 PM
 
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one part of the govt may have a hand in the study, that doesn't mean that the rest just follow suite or do so fast

clearly in this case they see a problem and a big one at that - but nothing thus far is being done, Dr's are telling patients to stop the vaccine, they simply can't because another part of the govt hasn't given the recommendation to do so, and yet ANOTHER part has to check into the effectiveness and go through yet another list of procedures to (if they do) withdraw the vaccines - this is all time IF it even happens!

 

 

I assume you meant "Dr's aren't telling patients to stop the vaccine" correct? This study doesn't mean adults and especially newborns shouldn't get the vaccine. Having a much milder form of whooping cough is nothing to scoff at, and especially in a newborn could mean the difference between life and death. 

 

For some adults it's nothing more than a mild cough, but for others it can be weeks or months of coughing fits that can result in vomiting or loss of consciousness.  Take for example this case from earlier this year where a truck driver had such a coughing fit that he passed out and killed 4 people, including two grandparents and their 1 year old grandchild. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/sep/03/lorry-driver-cough-accidental-deaths 

 

"A lorry driver sobbed as he recalled how a coughing fit caused him to black out at the wheel prior to a collision that left four members of the same family dead.

 

His 15-tonne Volvo lorry drove over a Renault Scenic, killing the driver by Robert Reed, 75, his wife Margaret, 74, their one-year-old great-granddaughter Destiny and her mother Natalie, 18.

 

Dr Nigel Stout, who runs a black out clinic at the Sunderland hospital, checked Mr Davis's blood for whooping cough after hearing that his teenage son had also passed out during a coughing fit.

The test revealed a whooping cough infection had been present.

In some cases coughing can cause a loss of blood pressure which can lead a patient to black out, and is known as cough syncope." 


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I assume you meant "Dr's aren't telling patients to stop the vaccine" correct? This study doesn't mean adults and especially newborns shouldn't get the vaccine. Having a much milder form of whooping cough is nothing to scoff at, and especially in a newborn could mean the difference between life and death. 

For some adults it's nothing more than a mild cough, but for others it can be weeks or months of coughing fits that can result in vomiting or loss of consciousness.  Take for example this case from earlier this year where a truck driver had such a coughing fit that he passed out and killed 4 people, including two grandparents and their 1 year old grandchild. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/sep/03/lorry-driver-cough-accidental-deaths 

"A lorry driver sobbed as he recalled how a coughing fit caused him to black out at the wheel prior to a collision that left four members of the same family dead.

His 15-tonne Volvo lorry drove over a Renault Scenic, killing the driver by Robert Reed, 75, his wife Margaret, 74, their one-year-old great-granddaughter Destiny and her mother Natalie, 18.

Dr Nigel Stout, who runs a black out clinic at the Sunderland hospital, checked Mr Davis's blood for whooping cough after hearing that his teenage son had also passed out during a coughing fit.

The test revealed a whooping cough infection had been present.




In some cases coughing can cause a loss of blood pressure which can lead a patient to black out, and is known as cough syncope." 




Now tea stop twisting here! Did you read the study we are talking about? I said nothing about getting or not getting in my post- twisty twisty on your part.

Are you sating the vaccine works and you can't become a spreader? Because you seem to certainly be implying its a great vaccine.innocent.gif

You most definitely can get a mild case regardless if you vaccinate and the study also talks about that too- you did read it-correct?

ETA- let's make it clear, when a study comes out, Dr.and other health care professional don't just bring it up either - since they are still told it's protocol to vaccinated for it

 

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Now tea stop twisting here! Did you read the study we are talking about? I said nothing about getting or not getting in my post- twisty twisty on your part.

Are you sating the vaccine works and you can't become a spreader? Because you seem to certainly be implying its a great vaccine.innocent.gif

You most definitely can get a mild case regardless if you vaccinate and the study also talks about that too- you did read it-correct?

ETA- let's make it clear, when a study comes out, Dr.and other health care professional don't just bring it up either - since they are still told it's protocol to vaccinated for it

 

I would appreciate it if you would stop accusing me of "twisting" things around. That implies a deliberate action on my part.  As others have pointed out to you before, your posts are often times very hard to follow and understand.  If I misunderstood something you said, just clarify what you meant instead of accusing me of purposefully "twisting" your words. Thank you. 

 

I interpreted this part of your post "clearly in this case they see a problem and a big one at that - but nothing thus far is being done, Dr's (aren't) telling patients to stop the vaccine..."  to mean that you think Doctors should be telling patients to stop the vaccine in light of this study and I was responding to that. 

 

Do I think it's a *great* vaccine? it's certainly not perfect, but something doesn't have to be either 100% effective or useless.  Even the article pointed out that a person is generally going to be more likely to spread germs if they are coughing than if they are just inhaling and exhaling and the vaccine *does* prevent coughing.  Especially for newborns it's an extremely important vaccine, as not having any symptoms or having very mild symptoms vs full blown pertussis can save a baby's life. 

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#19 of 66 Old 12-01-2013, 09:07 AM
 
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I assume you meant "Dr's aren't telling patients to stop the vaccine" correct? This study doesn't mean adults and especially newborns shouldn't get the vaccine. Having a much milder form of whooping cough is nothing to scoff at, and especially in a newborn could mean the difference between life and death. 

 

I agree it is nothing to sneeze at.

 

I don't think the first vaccine at 2 months offers much protection agsinat pertussis, though.  You can comb through this if you like, for some stats.  A bit more efficacy is found after the shot at 4 months, and then more at each subsequent shot.  http://www.who.int/immunization/pertussis_grad_efficacy.pdf   The  thing is, most infants who die of pertussis are under 3 months old.  I don't think the pertussis vaccine does as much as anyone hopes in saving infants - that is the whole problem.  

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#20 of 66 Old 12-01-2013, 10:00 AM
 
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I would appreciate it if you would stop accusing me of "twisting" things around. That implies a deliberate action on my part.  As others have pointed out to you before, your posts are often times very hard to follow and understand.  If I misunderstood something you said, just clarify what you meant instead of accusing me of purposefully "twisting" your words. Thank you. You do twist things and go OT, no where were we talking about NOT vaccinating for this or about how bad a mild case of it can be. The study does talk about how even with being vaccinate  - Baboons vaccinated with aP were protected from severe pertussis-associated symptoms but not from colonization, did not clear the infection faster than naïve animals, and readily transmitted B. pertussis to unvaccinated contacts.

 

 

I interpreted this part of your post "clearly in this case they see a problem and a big one at that - but nothing thus far is being done, Dr's (aren't) telling patients to stop the vaccine..."  to mean that you think Doctors should be telling patients to stop the vaccine in light of this study and I was responding to that. 

 

IF you read what I posted I did say - Dr's areN'T (are not) telling patients to stop the vaccine, they simply can't because another part of the govt hasn't given the recommendation to do so, and yet ANOTHER part has to check into the effectiveness and go through yet another list of procedures to (if they do) withdraw the vaccines - this is all time IF it even happens!

​How you jumped to me saying that Dr should tell their patients to stop is beyond me! The rest of the sentence makes it clear, they can't do that.

 

Do I think it's a *great* vaccine? it's certainly not perfect, but something doesn't have to be either 100% effective or useless.  Even the article pointed out that a person is generally going to be more likely to spread germs if they are coughing than if they are just inhaling and exhaling and the vaccine *does* prevent coughing.  Especially for newborns it's an extremely important vaccine, as not having any symptoms or having very mild symptoms vs full blown pertussis can save a baby's life. 

no, Dr's are not telling patient to stop the vaccine nor are they telling patients there are risks (that has been stated numerous times with vaccines in general-most clearly don't know) and they ALSO are not going to start saying with this vaccine that there is study that shows there are "problems" - unless they are directed to do so and that is not what is happening 

 

Will they even say the percentage that it does cover effetely? NO, because we really don't know that number but we do know it's not close to 100%.

 

this is exactly the problem as Kathy points it out

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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
 

I agree it is nothing to sneeze at.

 

I don't think the first vaccine at 2 months offers much protection agsinat pertussis, though.  You can comb through this if you like, for some stats.  A bit more efficacy is found after the shot at 4 months, and then more at each subsequent shot.  http://www.who.int/immunization/pertussis_grad_efficacy.pdf   The  thing is, most infants who die of pertussis are under 3 months old.  I don't think the pertussis vaccine does as much as anyone hopes in saving infants - that is the whole problem.  

and now apparently it (as the study shows) doesn't prevent older ones from getting it - I wouldn't rank a vaccine like this at 100% and not near close enough to do what is desired

 

 I really see it doing the opposite with lots of false hope being thrown in over "fear" based medicine playing on parents - and that is not only sad, it's wrong!


 

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#21 of 66 Old 12-01-2013, 01:19 PM
 
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"IF you read what I posted I did say - Dr's areN'T (are not) telling patients to stop the vaccine, they simply can't because another part of the govt hasn't given the recommendation to do so, and yet ANOTHER part has to check into the effectiveness and go through yet another list of procedures to (if they do) withdraw the vaccines - this is all time IF it even happens!
​How you jumped to me saying that Dr should tell their patients to stop is beyond me! The rest of the sentence makes it clear, they can't do that."

Ah Seren except you only just edited your post to reflect what it says now. Originally you didn't have "areN'T" in your post but I'm pretty certain we all know what you intended to say.
Considering how much it bothers you when you think other members are twisting your words I'm not sure why you would purposefully do that back to Teacosy.

I agree that the biggest concern is for those infants who are too young to be fully covered by the DTaP, but short of never leaving the house for those early months I'm not certain there is any other method of protection.
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#22 of 66 Old 12-01-2013, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well Breastfeeding & Prenatal Tdap are more reliable as protection IMO, as well as basic respiratory health measures like 'maintaining a smoke free home' (Sounds simple/obvious but I know fully crunchy MDC types who have not been able to accomplish this because of uncooperative spouses/relatives. Even my own child was exposed b/c I occasionally wanted to visit my mother.)

However cocooning seems like a good add on. I am too lazy to grab the study, but there is one that compares reduction in cases from Cocooning vs. Prenatal Tdap & seems like they would work better together.

The very knowledge that some Vax allows for asymptomatic transmission is an important advance tho.
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#23 of 66 Old 12-02-2013, 06:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by dinahx View Post



However cocooning seems like a good add on. I am too lazy to grab the study, but there is one that compares reduction in cases from Cocooning vs. Prenatal Tdap & seems like they would work better together.

The very knowledge that some Vax allows for asymptomatic transmission is an important advance tho.

cocooning doesn't work if you feel when you vax you are protected and IMO IRL I find most hold this thought

 

also I fail to see why and I wish the money was throw at public service ads instead, but taking freshly born, day old babies out to eat and to the grocery store and Target really isn't a smart idea yet I see this ALL THE TIME!                       so worried, go vac, the push of false hope vs how about so worried, your new born does not need to socialize!

 

the transmission thing with this vaccine is deeply concerning, even if you are "trying" to cocoon and have sibling, I see so many potential problems

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TCMoulton View Post

"IF you read what I posted I did say - Dr's areN'T (are not) telling patients to stop the vaccine, they simply can't because another part of the govt hasn't given the recommendation to do so, and yet ANOTHER part has to check into the effectiveness and go through yet another list of procedures to (if they do) withdraw the vaccines - this is all time IF it even happens!
​How you jumped to me saying that Dr should tell their patients to stop is beyond me! The rest of the sentence makes it clear, they can't do that."

Ah Seren except you only just edited your post to reflect what it says now. Originally you didn't have "areN'T" in your post but I'm pretty certain we all know what you intended to say.
Considering how much it bothers you when you think other members are twisting your words I'm not sure why you would purposefully do that back to Teacosy.

I agree that the biggest concern is for those infants who are too young to be fully covered by the DTaP, but short of never leaving the house for those early months I'm not certain there is any other method of protection.

perhaps you failed to get the meaning of the rest of the sentence you are so worked up over and fail to see that in the following sentences I states how they can not tell their patients 


 

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#24 of 66 Old 12-12-2013, 09:25 PM
 
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The current Pertussis vaccine protects against severe symptoms but not transmission.  The prior version of the Pertussis vaccine (whole-cell pertussis) protected against both. This is well known and widely discussed in the medical literature around Pertussis.  Pertussis rates have been rising since the late 1990s when whole-cell Pertussis vaccines went off the market and were switched for the current Pertussis vaccine.  At the time doctors hoped that herd immunity would be maintained by the new vaccine but that has not been the case.

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#25 of 66 Old 12-14-2013, 08:45 PM
 
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I know that a lot of you who vaccinate on schedule believe in cocooning. Has this new study challenged this belief? Given that the aP vaccine isn't preventing transmission, can we still fairly call pertussis a "vaccine-preventable disease?"

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#26 of 66 Old 12-15-2013, 01:05 AM
 
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The result are worrying. However even the currently used vaccine has been shown to reduce risk of pertussis (8-23 times is a number I remember), and also severity, so it's not worthless.

And the more reactive vaccine worked better. I'm not sure I'd be keen to go back to that given the side effects, but since it did work then, yes, whooping cough is a VPD.

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#27 of 66 Old 12-15-2013, 06:46 AM
 
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Many adults born before 1990 have had the whole-cell pertussis vaccine and studies have shown it often gives lifetime immunity as well as providing barriers to transmission. Personally I think the current rise in pertussis is due to the weakening of herd immunity after the switch away from the more effective vaccine. I actually dislike the trend towards weaker, "safer", acellular vaccines and wish there was more choice available on the drug market. Some of us just don't have any adverse reactions to vaccines and I think the benefits of lifetime vaccination far outweigh the risks for us. My dad had Pertussis as a child and it had lifelong adverse respiratory effects. I wouldn't wish it on my kids.
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#28 of 66 Old 12-19-2013, 09:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

The result are worrying. However even the currently used vaccine has been shown to reduce risk of pertussis (8-23 times is a number I remember), and also severity, so it's not worthless.



And the more reactive vaccine worked better. I'm not sure I'd be keen to go back to that given the side effects, but since it did work then, yes, whooping cough is a VPD.

 



I'd be OK with that position, so long as pediatricians are honest about it. "Pertussis is technically a vaccine-preventable disease, but only if we use the whole-cell version of the vaccine. And we can't because we no longer have access to it."

Somehow I can't envision this conversation taking place in most exam rooms.

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#29 of 66 Old 12-26-2013, 09:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post


I'd be OK with that position, so long as pediatricians are honest about it. "Pertussis is technically a vaccine-preventable disease, but only if we use the whole-cell version of the vaccine. And we can't because we no longer have access to it."

Somehow I can't envision this conversation taking place in most exam rooms.

Honestly, a lot of pediatricians/PCPs aren't that bright. Otherwise they'd be in a higher-paying specialty. And the current formulation of the pertussis vaccine does work for individuals in terms of protecting them from pertussis. It just doesn't help much with herd immunity.
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#30 of 66 Old 12-27-2013, 07:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naimah View Post


Honestly, a lot of pediatricians/PCPs aren't that bright. Otherwise they'd be in a higher-paying specialty. And the current formulation of the pertussis vaccine does work for individuals in terms of protecting them from pertussis. It just doesn't help much with herd immunity.

Wow.

 

So, these brainless people somehow got into med school and residency, but just aren't that bright?

 

Maybe, just maybe, they are doing something that they love and they didn't just go into medicine for the money.  Sheesh.

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