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#1 of 63 Old 01-12-2014, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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http://autism-news-beat.com/archives/2310

 

I thought this was an interesting interview.   Joyce Bulifant is Evan's paternal grandmother and has decided to speak up about his autism.  

 

The article points out many inconsistencies from Jenny McCarthy about her son's autism diagnosis.  In one interview, she says her son was completely normal and then "the light went out of his eyes" after his MMR vaccine, but in her own book she wrote that he didn't smile until he was 5 months old.  Clearly that is abnormal and an early warning sign for autism. 

 

His grandmother had noticed he was different at 7 months old 

 

 

"Bulifant said she was concerned about Evan’s months before his first birthday.

“I remember Christmas, 2002 (age seven months). I was bathing him in the sink, and trying to get him to giggle and respond to me, but he seemed detached. My family was a little concerned but I didn’t say anything to Jenny because I know children develop at different times. But I was concerned.”

His grandmother tells another story about how she once confronted Evan's nanny concerned asking if she noticed anything different about Evan.  She explained to the nanny that it seemed like Evan could never connect or interact with her.  Jenny McCarthy was angry that she confronted the nanny, but collaborated the story "Others had noticed something different about Evan, too. “My mother-in-law said, ‘He doesn’t really show affection,’ and I threw her out of the house,” Jenny says. “I went to a play gym, and the woman [there] said, ‘Does your son have a brain problem?’ … [I said], ‘How dare you say something about my child? I love him. He’s perfect. You can’t say that about a child.’ I just had no idea.”

While I don't doubt his autism diagnosis, I think there is a lot of evidence that he started showing early symptoms way before his MMR vaccine. 

What are your thoughts on this article?


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#2 of 63 Old 01-12-2014, 02:20 PM
 
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He did receive other vaccines before the MMR. It sounds like he was susceptible to vaccine injury, perhaps was more subtly injured by previous vaccines, and the biggest change was after the MMR.
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#3 of 63 Old 01-12-2014, 05:47 PM
 
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http://autism-news-beat.com/archives/2310

 

I thought this was an interesting interview.   Joyce Bulifant is Evan's paternal grandmother and has decided to speak up about his autism.  

 

 

What are your thoughts on this article?

Well, if you don't think Whitestones own mother is credible, then why would you think Evan's grandmother would be?


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#4 of 63 Old 01-12-2014, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, if you don't think Whitestones own mother is credible, then why would you think Evan's grandmother would be?

 

So are we going to derail yet another thread talking about Whitestone? 

 

In any case, as I stated in my OP, Jenny wrote in her own book that her son didn't smile until he was 5 months old.  She also corroborated the grandmothers story about confronting the nanny early on about feeling like Evan didn't show emotion and had trouble connecting with her. 

 

Speaking of fuzzy memories, Jenny McCarthy has given many conflicting stories about her son's autism symptoms and when they started.  There are lots of blogs that cover the many inconsistencies,  and anyone who is interested can google them if they want.  So either Jenny is a liar, or her memory is fuzzy.  Which is it? 

 

I spent about 15 seconds putting "Blurry memory NICU" into google and this came up on the first page.  An article from Goodliving Magazine

 

 " The worst moment of my life is when the ambulance drivers wheeled that baby away from me down the long, white hall of Morton Plant Hospital. I cried hysterically in my wheelchair.

Our two weeks at the All Children’s NICU are blurry, faint memories now." 

http://goodlivingmagazine.com/good-living/my-story/

Goes to show, that just because you feel like every moment your child was hospitalized is engrained in vivid memory, that doesn't mean thats how everyone experiences it.  Judging from the picture of her son in the article, he only looks to be about 6 years old.  So if she can be fuzzy after just a few years, imagine what 20 years can do.  Another anecdote, but my brother was in the NICU for 5 weeks after he was born due to prematurity and my mother says she can barely remember any of it. 


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#5 of 63 Old 01-12-2014, 07:32 PM
 
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I don't think NVers base their vaccine decisions on Jenny McCarthy. 

 

You can dissect the timeline, Evan, Jenny etc if you want…but to what end?  

 

No one thinks anyone should vaccinate or not vaccinate based on  one persons story.   


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#6 of 63 Old 01-12-2014, 07:38 PM
 
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I don't think NVers base their vaccine decisions on Jenny McCarthy. 

 

You can dissect the timeline, Evan, Jenny etc if you want…but to what end?  

 

No one thinks anyone should vaccinate or not vaccinate based on what one persons story.   

 

I am so sick of Jenny McCarthy. She is such a straw man, and I cringe when people suggest they make their choices based on what a celebrity does. 


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I don't think NVers base their vaccine decisions on Jenny

I'm pretty sure this is the case in Australia. I don't know how big she is in the US but I had never really heard of her until I started reading these boards. And I've never heard a non-vaxxer IRL mention her.

I've never read anything she's written and I don't know what she is famous for (other than the vax stuff). I've seen her in magazines as Jim Carey's partner but that's about it.

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#8 of 63 Old 01-12-2014, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't think NVers base their vaccine decisions on Jenny McCarthy. 

 

You can dissect the timeline, Evan, Jenny etc if you want…but to what end?  

 

No one thinks anyone should vaccinate or not vaccinate based on what one persons story.   

 

"Brains Hardwired to Accept Celebrity Health Advice"  http://m.livescience.com/42039-celebrity-health-advice-brain.html

 

Point being, she should stop insisting her son developed autism from the MMR vaccine, or even saying that it played any part at all, when he clearly displayed many classic autism warning signs well before the vaccine.  


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#9 of 63 Old 01-12-2014, 08:02 PM
 
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"Brains Hardwired to Accept Celebrity Health Advice"  http://m.livescience.com/42039-celebrity-health-advice-brain.html

 

Point being, she should stop insisting her son developed autism from the MMR vaccine when he clearly displayed many classic autism warning signs well before the vaccine.

 

Yeah maybe when it comes to losing 10 lbs or what workout to do. Its all shallow stuff. There would be a lot more vegans if people listened to celebrities. 


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#10 of 63 Old 01-12-2014, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah maybe when it comes to losing 10 lbs or what workout to do. Its all shallow stuff. There would be a lot more vegans if people listened to celebrities. 

 

It's not just when it comes to diets or weight loss.  Look up the "Katie Couric effect" to see another example.  There was a huge increase in the number of colonoscopies performed after her campaign and on air colonoscopy.   Of course, that's an example of a good influence. 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12860585


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#11 of 63 Old 01-12-2014, 08:45 PM
 
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I am so sick of Jenny McCarthy. She is such a straw man, and I cringe when people suggest they make their choices based on what a celebrity does. 

Yep. I think we should boycott any debate regarding Jenny McCarthy. I don't base my decisions on what she says, although I do respect her for having the balls to tell her story.

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#12 of 63 Old 01-12-2014, 08:52 PM
 
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"Brains Hardwired to Accept Celebrity Health Advice"  http://m.livescience.com/42039-celebrity-health-advice-brain.html

Point being, she should stop insisting her son developed autism from the MMR vaccine, or even saying that it played any part at all, when he clearly displayed many classic autism warning signs well before the vaccine.  


She has every right to say what ever she wants about HER OWN child. What gives you the right to tell her what she can or can not say?

You seem overly fixated with other people and their children, they are not yours!

You come off as being very obsessed,.

Pro-vaccers ALWAYS are the ones bringing Jenny up yet feel non-vaccers are in love with her. Seems the PRO side needs her!

 

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She has every right to say what ever she wants about HER OWN child. What gives you the right to tell her what she can or can not say?

You seem overly fixated with other people and their children, they are not yours!

You come off as being very obsessed,.

Pro-vaccers ALWAYS are the ones bringing Jenny up yet feel non-vaccers are in love with her. Seems the PRO side needs her!

 

Of course legally she should be able to say whatever she likes.  Freedom of speech and all.  But it's dishonest at best to keep insisting the vaccine caused her son's autism. 


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#14 of 63 Old 01-12-2014, 09:12 PM
 
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Of course legally she should be able to say whatever she likes.  Freedom of speech and all.  But it's dishonest at best to keep insisting the vaccine caused her son's autism. 

You have no legal proof either - you have only your opinion. You think it's dishonest and I'm sure she could care less about your opinion because it only reinforces what I just wrote- you come off as obsessed!!

This was also pointed out to you prior, vaccines take place for many babies starting on the day they are born. I'm sure you have never meet her child or saw him during his early months yet you seem to think you know! eyesroll.gif

 

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Of course legally she should be able to say whatever she likes.  


Should read - of course legally she CAN! Not should.

 

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So are we going to derail yet another thread talking about Whitestone? 

In any case, as I stated in my OP, Jenny wrote in her own book that her son didn't smile until he was 5 months old.  She also corroborated the grandmothers story about confronting the nanny early on about feeling like Evan didn't show emotion and had trouble connecting with her. 

Speaking of fuzzy memories, Jenny McCarthy has given many conflicting stories about her son's autism symptoms and when they started.  There are lots of blogs that cover the many inconsistencies,  and anyone who is interested can google them if they want.  So either Jenny is a liar, or her memory is fuzzy.  Which is it? 

I spent about 15 seconds putting "Blurry memory NICU" into google and this came up on the first page.  An article from Goodliving Magazine

 " The worst moment of my life is when the ambulance drivers wheeled that baby away from me down the long, white hall of Morton Plant Hospital. I cried hysterically in my wheelchair.
Our two weeks at the All Children’s NICU are blurry, faint memories now." 
http://goodlivingmagazine.com/good-living/my-story/
Goes to show, that just because you feel like every moment your child was hospitalized is engrained in vivid memory, that doesn't mean thats how everyone experiences it.  Judging from the picture of her son in the article, he only looks to be about 6 years old.  So if she can be fuzzy after just a few years, imagine what 20 years can do.  Another anecdote, but my brother was in the NICU for 5 weeks after he was born due to prematurity and my mother says she can barely remember any of it. 

I can't believe you'd stoop to trying to convince us that the memories of women who have just undergone emergency procedures--caesarians/childbirth with either labor, drugs, surgery, or all 3--is indicative of the memories of all mothers.

Your low opinion of women becomes more obvious with every post.
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#17 of 63 Old 01-12-2014, 10:38 PM
 
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What I find most important about Jenny's story is the way she helped her son deal with his autism, or autism-like symptoms. Using diet, nutrition, supplements, and special education, many of her son's symptoms improved dramatically. I don't know if the MMR, or any other vaccine, triggered his symptoms, but I do believe she helped cure him, and that's inspiring. Not all children will experience the same results, but Jenny's success is a story that must be told. The cause of Evan's autism may be unknown, but his recovery was nothing short of amazing. Jenny deserves some credit for that.

 

On the topic of Evan's autism diagnosis:

"Evan was diagnosed with autism by the Autism Evaluation Clinic at the UCLA Neuropsychiatric Hospital and was confirmed by the State of California (through their Regional Center)."  He was clinically diagnosed. Now, if this was a mistake, and he was misdiagnosed, wouldn't that bother you just a bit? Your child receives a formal diagnosis of autism, and there is basically nothing you can do to help. "Autism is incurable!" they say. Then, you find out years later that your child never had autism? The medical community was--GASP--wrong?? They misdiagnosed your child?? How would you feel?

 

Critics are claiming Evan did not have autism at all, and Jenny's cure had nothing to do with his symptoms improving. He just outgrew them, I guess?  If that is true, then you would have to admit that the medical community made a MISTAKE, and then wonder how many other mistakes like this are made. (This also happens with cancer, just read about Suzanne Somers.) Is it better to believe Evan had autism and Jenny helped cure him, OR do you believe the bright minds at UCLA  made a huge mistake, and they really don't know what they are talking about? The latter choice does not bode well for the neuropsychiatric branch at UCLA, so choose carefully!  Either Jenny healed her son, or the top minds at UCLA were wrong.


 
 
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#18 of 63 Old 01-12-2014, 10:49 PM
 
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P.S. I'm going to predict the response....

 

"Misdiagnosis!"

Because, nutrition and supplements are useless, don't help anybody, so it's impossible that Evan was cured.  UCLA made a mistake about his autism diagnosis, these things happen (very rarely, of course). The doctors would have figured it out eventually, and changed their diagnosis accordingly. Evan just miraculously outgrew his autism-like symptoms, all on his own, without the help of his mother or her diet and nutrition program.

So folks, if you are thinking of beginning a diet, nutrition, and supplement program for your autistic child, just stop! It won't help, so don't even try! Keep feeding him all the good things that irritate his bowel, like gluten and casein! It won't affect his symptoms, because as you know, the gut and the brain are not related at all!


 
 
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#19 of 63 Old 01-12-2014, 11:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I can't believe you'd stoop to trying to convince us that the memories of women who have just undergone emergency procedures--caesarians/childbirth with either labor, drugs, surgery, or all 3--is indicative of the memories of all mothers.

Your low opinion of women becomes more obvious with every post.

 

First of all, my response was to Kathymuggle.  She brought up Whitestone and had previously used her NICU experience as an example of memories not being fuzzy when your child is hospitalized.  This quote specifically "I don't know if you have ever had a child in the hospital - but I have.  My youngest was in the NICU for the first 10 days of her life.  I am not fuzzy on any of the details."   Other people experience and remember things differently, which was my point. 

 

Second of all, I find it amazing and arrogant that you honestly believe that out of the millions and millions of parents that have had children hospitalized for various reasons that ALL of them remember and experience events the same way you do.  Just because YOU remember something in vivid detail doesn't mean everyone does.

 

Third of all, we aren't even talking about her memory when her daughter was hospitalized.  Her DTP vaccines were BEFORE the hospitalization.  Even if you could make the argument that 100% of people recall events with the same clarity that you do, that wouldn't mean that people recall events that happened days, weeks, or months before the event with the same lucidity.   I can remember everything about the day my son was born.  That memory is extremely vivid. But I couldn't tell you what I had for lunch or what I wore or what I watched on television  the day before he was born if my depended on it.  

 

Lastly, your last sentence is offensive and a personal attack which is a violation of the forum guidelines.  It's been flagged as such. 


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#20 of 63 Old 01-13-2014, 05:46 AM
 
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  But it's dishonest at best to keep insisting the vaccine caused her son's autism. 

If she believes vaccines contributed to the autism then she believes vaccines contributed to the autism.

 

Dishonest implies she is lying and there is no way you can know whether she is lying about her belief or not. 


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#21 of 63 Old 01-13-2014, 06:36 AM
 
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Tea, I am wondering if you misunderstood my point.

 

If you are arguing we should disregard Mrs. Whitestones initial story due to brain fuzziness, then why (according to you) should we listen to Evan's grandmother?

 

Mrs. Whitestone was the mother - it was her child in a hospital and her child who went deaf.

 

Evans grandmother was the grandmother - she did not live with the child or anything.

 

I would think that if we are arguing for "fuzziness of memories" it makes sense that a mom would be less fuzzy than a grandmother, in most cases.

 

There are two possibilities here, and I don't think either either negate  the "light went out in his eyes after MMR" statement.

 

1. He was autistic from birth.  Autism is a huge spectrum, and if MMR caused Evan to regress or go from a milder version to a more moderate version of autism that is a HUGE deal.

 

2.  He  did not display symptoms of autism from birth.  The MMR or perhaps something else triggered it.  The fact the grandma saw signs something was wrong before 18 months is pretty irrelevant.  Lots of people (most?) see signs something is wrong with their child and those sign usually turn out to be nothing..  Early signs of autism include slight differences in eye contact, spinning, not pointing, lining up toys,,,,,lots of kids do these things and do not end up with a diagnosis or autism.  There is a reason we cannot diagnose autism in babies.


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#22 of 63 Old 01-13-2014, 07:08 AM
 
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Tea, I am wondering if you misunderstood my point.

 

If you are arguing we should disregard Mrs. Whitestones initial story due to brain fuzziness, then why (according to you) should we listen to Evan's grandmother?

 

Mrs. Whitestone was the mother - it was her child in a hospital and her child who went deaf.

 

Evans grandmother was the grandmother - she did not live with the child or anything.

 

I would think that if we are arguing for "fuzziness of memories" it makes sense that a mom would be less fuzzy than a grandmother, in most cases.

 

There are two possibilities here, and I don't think either either negate  the "light went out in his eyes after MMR" statement.

 

1. He was autistic from birth.  Autism is a huge spectrum, and if MMR caused Evan to regress or go from a milder version to a more moderate version of autism that is a HUGE deal.

 

2.  He  did not display symptoms of autism from birth.  The MMR or perhaps something else triggered it.  The fact the grandma saw signs something was wrong before 18 months is pretty irrelevant.  Lots of people (most?) see signs something is wrong with their child and those sign usually turn out to be nothing..  Early signs of autism include slight differences in eye contact, spinning, not pointing, lining up toys,,,,,lots of kids do these things and do not end up with a diagnosis or autism.  There is a reason we cannot diagnose autism in babies.

Excellent points, although I take issue with the "autistic from birth" argument, as there is no way to assess whether vaccines weren't an issue all along, when babies are given hep B the day of birth, and often exposed to thimerosal-containing flu shots in utero as well.  There is also a possible concern that infants receiving IV fluid therapy accumulate excess aluminum--and most laboring mothers are hooked up to IV fluids; is there a possibility that that could contribute to future neurodevelopment problems in those infants?

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#23 of 63 Old 01-13-2014, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Tea, I am wondering if you misunderstood my point.

 

If you are arguing we should disregard Mrs. Whitestones initial story due to brain fuzziness, then why (according to you) should we listen to Evan's grandmother?

 

Mrs. Whitestone was the mother - it was her child in a hospital and her child who went deaf.

 

Evans grandmother was the grandmother - she did not live with the child or anything.

 

I would think that if we are arguing for "fuzziness of memories" it makes sense that a mom would be less fuzzy than a grandmother, in most cases.

 

There are two possibilities here, and I don't think either either negate  the "light went out in his eyes after MMR" statement.

 

1. He was autistic from birth.  Autism is a huge spectrum, and if MMR caused Evan to regress or go from a milder version to a more moderate version of autism that is a HUGE deal.

 

2.  He  did not display symptoms of autism from birth.  The MMR or perhaps something else triggered it.  The fact the grandma saw signs something was wrong before 18 months is pretty irrelevant.  Lots of people (most?) see signs something is wrong with their child and those sign usually turn out to be nothing..  Early signs of autism include slight differences in eye contact, spinning, not pointing, lining up toys,,,,,lots of kids do these things and do not end up with a diagnosis or autism.  There is a reason we cannot diagnose autism in babies.

 

1. There is no evidence that the MMR causes people to regress into autism. I know this is a point that neither side is going to ever agree on so lets not even bother discussing it further.

 

2. The issue is that she has stated in interviews that he was a completely normal baby that didn't start showing any signs of autism until after the MMR vaccine.  By her own accounts, that is clearly not true.  A baby not smiling until they are 5 months old is a HUGE warning sign. That is not a small or minor delay.  Her statements corroborating the grandmother's story about bringing her concerns about Evan to his nanny, strangers asking her if there was something wrong with his brain etc.   She is basically giving two different versions of events.  Either he was perfectly normal until the MMR which caused his autism, or he was displaying many warning signs that were noticed and brought to her attention months before the vaccine. 

 

Additionally, two people (Jenny and his grandmother) having the same simultaneous "fuzzy" memory independent of each other would be pretty extraordinary.  

 

Trying to make comparisons about this case and the Whitestone case isn't fair.  There aren't doctors and medical records with dates disputing the grandmother's claims.  Jenny has also corroborated the story as well.  

 

I find it interesting that you take my statements from one case, with very different and unique circumstances,  and extrapolate that to mean that I must think EVERY memory that ANY parent has EVER had is wrong.   Very interesting indeed. 


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#24 of 63 Old 01-13-2014, 10:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 

 

1. There is no evidence that the MMR causes people to regress into autism. I know this is a point that neither side is going to ever agree on so lets not even bother discussing it further.

 

2. The issue is that she has stated in interviews that he was a completely normal baby that didn't start showing any signs of autism until after the MMR vaccine.  By her own accounts, that is clearly not true.  A baby not smiling until they are 5 months old is a HUGE warning sign. That is not a small or minor delay.  Her statements corroborating the grandmother's story about bringing her concerns about Evan to his nanny, strangers asking her if there was something wrong with his brain etc.   She is basically giving two different versions of events.  Either he was perfectly normal until the MMR which caused his autism, or he was displaying many warning signs that were noticed and brought to her attention months before the vaccine. 

 

Additionally, two people (Jenny and his grandmother) having the same simultaneous "fuzzy" memory independent of each other would be pretty extraordinary.  

 

Trying to make comparisons about this case and the Whitestone case isn't fair.  There aren't doctors and medical records with dates disputing the grandmother's claims.  Jenny has also corroborated the story as well.  

 

I find it interesting that you take my statements from one case, with very different and unique circumstances,  and extrapolate that to mean that I must think EVERY memory that ANY parent has EVER had is wrong.   Very interesting indeed. 

 

 

Where you there are or did you illegally access her child's medical records?

 

Smiling alone does not indicate conclusively one way or the other. I wasn't around her child, and I gather you also were not! Do you personally know what other gestures that child made? NO you simply do not, you are going off of an interview.

 

 

Really so what? What does this mean anyway? What is this tread even about? You think you are going to change what Jenny can and can't says or somehow society is going to take your word as gospel on these issues? What are you even arguing here - that the kid doesn't have autism? You seem to want to argue about autism not vaccines and this is a vaccination section but the real point is WHAT? Her right to say it isn't it?……….She doesn't have the right to say it according to you! She does, and you simply do not agree.    

 

 

 

 

​I personal don't take you statements differently from one thread to another, I see them exactly the SAME. Numerous threads are the SAME - the mother is ALWAYS wrong (be if fuzzy or what ever term) and you alway go the exact same direction, it just can't be because of what the mother says - just recently; the young Mormon gentlemen, Whitestone, this one - a pattern. 

 

 

ETA- OR is this thread just to bash Jenny outside of the VOS section?


 

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Where you there are or did you illegally access her child's medical records?

 

Smiling alone does not indicate conclusively one way or the other. I wasn't around her child, and I gather you also were not! Do you personally know what other gestures that child made? NO you simply do not, you are going off of an interview.

 

 

Really so what? What does this mean anyway? What is this tread even about? You think you are going to change what Jenny can and can't says or somehow society is going to take your word as gospel on these issues? What are you even arguing here - that the kid doesn't have autism? You seem to want to argue about autism not vaccines and this is a vaccination section but the real point is WHAT? Her right to say it isn't it?……….She doesn't have the right to say it according to you! She does, and you simply do not agree.    

 

 

 

 

​I personal don't take you statements differently from one thread to another, I see them exactly the SAME. Numerous threads are the SAME - the mother is ALWAYS wrong (be if fuzzy or what ever term) and you alway go the exact same direction, it just can't be because of what the mother says - just recently; the young Mormon gentlemen, Whitestone, this one - a pattern. 

 

 

:yeah

 

Exactly.   It's consistently:  "the mother was wrong!"  "the mother was too stupid to know what she saw!"   "the mother forgot what happened!"

 

Clear pattern of attempting  character assassination on any witnesses who dare to report, study, or link neurological adverse reactions to vaccines.

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1. There is no evidence that the MMR causes people to regress into autism. I know this is a point that neither side is going to ever agree on so lets not even bother discussing it further.

 

 

Translation:  "I decree that I am right, so let's not even bother discussing it further." 

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#27 of 63 Old 01-13-2014, 11:00 AM
 
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:yeah

 

Exactly.   It's consistently:  "the mother was wrong!"  "the mother was too stupid to know what she saw!"   "the mother forgot what happened!"

 

Clear pattern of attempting  character assassination on any witnesses who dare to report, study, or link neurological adverse reactions to vaccines.

Certainly seems to be the case in every thread!

 

 

 

Since  vaccines do cause "reactions" I would really LOVE to see once where the mom is correct and where one of these super rare reaction children exists…...seems Tea is always saying it "can't be" yet the CDC admits in fact it can be, but in real life these damaged children are no where to be found-odd isn't it?


 

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Anyway, I'm taking a break for a bit from this thread (and the DT too probably).  Clearly it's not going anywhere. 

 

 

Wow, if 30 posts in 4 days (almost all arguing mothers can't remember squat) is a break from the debate forum...

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#29 of 63 Old 01-13-2014, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Don't have time to address each point or respond to everybody. 

 

I never said Jenny's memory was fuzzy. I simply asked the question.  She has two different version of events.  The only options are A. Her memory is fuzzy or B. She's a liar.  

 

I honestly don't have any idea what Mormon gentlemen you are talking about.   I do not have a "pattern".  

 

I apologize that pointing out the fact that science isn't based on beliefs but evidence upsets some of you.  A mother really really really believing her child's autism was caused by vaccine is not scientific evidence that it did. A mother's belief that vaccines caused her child's asthma isn't evidence that it did.  A mother's belief that vaccines caused her daughter's deafness isn't evidence that it did.  Sorry, that's not how science or medicine works.   

 

Don't forget-mothers used to really really believe that formula was better for children than breast milk, too.  

 

Clinging to beliefs that contradict scientific evidence is called "motivated reasoning".  


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#30 of 63 Old 01-13-2014, 11:31 AM
 
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Wow, if 30 posts in 4 days (almost all arguing mothers can't remember squat) is a break from the debate forum...

Yea, what a joke! :laugh

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Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 

Don't have time to address each point or respond to everybody. 

 

I never said Jenny's memory was fuzzy. I simply asked the question.  She has two different version of events.  The only options are A. Her memory is fuzzy or B. She's a liar.  

 

I honestly don't have any idea what Mormon gentlemen you are talking about.   I do not have a "pattern".  

 

I apologize that pointing out the fact that science isn't based on beliefs but evidence upsets some of you.  A mother really really really believing her child's autism was caused by vaccine is not scientific evidence that it did. A mother's belief that vaccines caused her child's asthma isn't evidence that it did.  A mother's belief that vaccines caused her daughter's deafness isn't evidence that it did.  Sorry, that's not how science or medicine works.   

 

Don't forget-mothers used to really really believe that formula was better for children than breast milk, too.  

 

Clinging to beliefs that contradict scientific evidence is called "motivated reasoning".  

sorry you can't recall - I can, here you go - http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1393411/mother-believes-her-19-yr-old-son-died-from-complications-of-flu-shot/80

  It almost feels like an accusation, like I am calling other mothers liars.  others can read the rest

 

Oh, and I forgot, not only do you have a problem with what Jenny is allowed(your word should!) to say you also do with Katie - remember this recent thread? http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1394201/katie-couric-admits-disproportionate-reporting-on-hpv-vaccine   

Legally she should be able to say whatever she wants.  That ALSO should read - Legally she CAN say whatever she wants! 

 

 

it's a pattern! :bgbounceIMO If you want me to post more in this pattern just let me know :wink 


 

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