Another industry whistleblower--this time, it's for Wyeth's Prevnar vaccine - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 62 Old 01-24-2014, 10:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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http://www.vaccinationinformationnetwork.com/a-former-vaccine-industry-employee-turns-whistleblower/

 

"In reality, I was terminated for my efforts to address and rectify quality compliance failures leading to the adulterated release of vaccine in violation of both FDA consent decree mandates and SEC regulations regarding disclosure. With help from the Government Accountability Project, I brought suit against Wyeth in federal district court for retaliatory discharge in violation of
whistleblower protection provisions of the 2002 Sarbanes-Oxley Act.'

 

More interesting comments here:  http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/articles/whistleblower/wyeth-00187.html#.UuNFPHn0A1g

 

"Employees who go up against big Pharma can find themselves subjected to a wide variety of retaliatory acts. "Their managers put them on pretextual performance improvement plans and do everything to make the work environment unbearable," Zuckerman reports.

"Whistleblowers also find themselves alienated," he explains, "their coworkers try not to associate with them for fear that management will view them as disloyal."

"My clients," he says, "whose only infraction was committing the truth have found themselves unemployed and suffer permanent damage to career and reputation.""

 

We never heard about any manufacturing quality problems, did we?  But there were many:

"Publicly, Wyeth claimed that the supply was hampered by unspecified production problems. However, many doctors were upset when they learned about the extent of the manufacturing problems that led the shortage and that Wyeth had been cited by the FDA for manufacturing violations again and again in the years before the shortage occurred.

For instance, Wyeth failed to reveal that in 2003, FDA inspectors found so many quality-control failings at the Prevnar packaging plant in Pearl River, NY, that production was shutdown at the site.

Among the many problems listed in FDA reports, inspectors described dirty work areas, sloppy operating procedures, contamination, improper environmental monitoring and insects in a hallway outside the room where vials were filled with the vaccine."

 

And it's not like we're talking about one or two cosmetic problems here.  This is serious stuff.

 

"In one FDA report alone, inspectors identified 59 problems.

In 2001 and 2002, Livingston says he repeatedly reported the violations to the managing director at the plant, an outside auditor, and a quality council of managers and nothing was done to correct the problems."

 

Hmmm.  How many serious adverse events to Prevnar were reported in 2001-2003?

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#2 of 62 Old 01-24-2014, 10:13 PM
 
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Interesting. Thanks for sharing this.
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#3 of 62 Old 01-25-2014, 11:01 AM
 
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It's not just vaccines. You'd be horrified to see the amount of memos that come across my desk for pharmacy recalls. 

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#4 of 62 Old 01-26-2014, 12:34 AM
 
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Yes, rainbownurse, that is very true.  There are recalls for drugs all of the time, but those drugs are not mandated for school attendance and employment and doctors may not chase a patient out of the practice for refusing to take them; if a person is hurt taking those drugs, a person can file a personal injury lawsuit. Vaccines are scheduled, pushed, and mandated for school attendance and now for employment, so vaccines are different, unavoidably unsafe, and a lawsuit can only be hurt in a special federal court overseen by the drug companies.


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Yes, rainbownurse, that is very true.  There are recalls for drugs all of the time, but those drugs are not mandated for school attendance and employment and doctors may not chase a patient out of the practice for refusing to take them; if a person is hurt taking those drugs, a person can file a personal injury lawsuit. Vaccines are scheduled, pushed, and mandated for school attendance and now for employment, so vaccines are different, unavoidably unsafe, and a lawsuit can only be hurt in a special federal court overseen by the drug companies.

Don't you believe your children are at risk of disease? Or your community?

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#6 of 62 Old 02-04-2014, 12:55 PM
 
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My children are adults.

 

Do you have any one disease in mind that you are concerned about?


"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#7 of 62 Old 02-04-2014, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Don't you believe your children are at risk of disease? Or your community?

 

 

 

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My children are adults.

 

Do you have any one disease in mind that you are concerned about?


That is also my response.   Saying "risk of disease" sounds so...paranoid.  There are many, many diseases for which there are no vaccines, and for which we are all contagious even before we display symptoms.  Many of the diseases for which there are vaccines are mild in the vast majority of those who contract them.    Some diseases for which there are vaccines are not easily contagious in typical contact--they require transmission of body fluid, or exposure to tainted feces.

Being overly concerned about germs can actually result in more illness, not less: 

 
Rather than getting obsessed about avoiding germ exposure, perhaps we should spend more resources on learning which subgroups are more at risk, why they are, and what can be done besides invasive procedures to help avoid complications.

We know some things already, like vitamin deficiency increases the risk of complications for both disease AND for vaccination.  Unfortunately, this knowledge is not put to good use.
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#8 of 62 Old 02-04-2014, 03:43 PM
 
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My children are adults.



 



Do you have any one disease in mind that you are concerned about?

 



Did you chose to vaccinate your children when they were young? I meant any concern over vaccine-preventable diseases, not one in particular.
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#9 of 62 Old 02-04-2014, 03:50 PM
 
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Did you chose to vaccinate your children when they were young? I meant any concern over vaccine-preventable diseases, not one in particular.

 

This wasn't address to me, but I will answer. I have two completely unvaccinated teens. I was never concerned about vaccine available diseases when they were babies. Do you have any understanding of the infant immune system and the role breast feeding plays in its development? Besides that, I have had all the self-limiting, childhood diseases and survived them all quite nicely, as did my siblings and every other kid I knew. This was in the UK.

 

ETA: I should also add these children have never required a sick visit to the doctor, have never had ear infections, required antibiotics for any bacterial infection, nor do they have allergies or auto immune issues, learning difficulties or behavioral problems.


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#10 of 62 Old 02-04-2014, 03:54 PM
 
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I was never vaccinated, so why would I vaccinated my own children?


"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#11 of 62 Old 02-04-2014, 03:54 PM
 
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That is also my response.   Saying "risk of disease" sounds so...paranoid.  There are many, many diseases for which there are no vaccines, and for which we are all contagious even before we display symptoms.  Many of the diseases for which there are vaccines are mild in the vast majority of those who contract them.    Some diseases for which there are vaccines are not easily contagious in typical contact--they require transmission of body fluid, or exposure to tainted feces.

Being overly concerned about germs can actually result in more illness, not less: 

 



"Mild in the vast majority of cases" may be true, but it ignores the numbers of people who are hospitalised, permanently damaged or die as a result. These victims weren't necessarily from any of the subgroups you mention. As an anecdotal example, my brother contracted hep A in Indonesia and was ill for more than 12 months. I can assure you he was fit, healthy and as always enjoyed excellent nutrition.

Describing my question as "paranoid" when you write on so many of your posts that we cannot trust the data, the organisations or the professionals seems a bit rich.

Your response also assumes that I'm "overly concerned about germs" which is untrue. If my daughter were not fully vaccinated I would be concerned.
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#12 of 62 Old 02-04-2014, 04:02 PM
 
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This wasn't address to me, but I will answer. I have two completely unvaccinated teens. I was never concerned about vaccine available diseases when they were babies. Do you have any understanding of the infant immune system and the role breast feeding plays in its development? Besides that, I have had all the self-limiting, childhood diseases and survived them all quite nicely, as did my siblings and every other kid I knew. This was in the UK.

 

ETA: I should also add these children have never required a sick visit to the doctor, have never had ear infections, required antibiotics for any bacterial infection, nor do they have allergies or auto immune issues, learning difficulties or behavioral problems.

 



I'm very pleased to hear your happy story Mirzam. It is very rare to be so blessed with such good health.

I come from a different experience as my mother is a consultant paedeatrician and growing up would often talk about the vaccine-preventable diseases affecting the area. She is one of a few doctors on call in our area to respond to child deaths. Often these occur through accident, sometimes abuse and neglect and sometimes from preventable disease.

Yes I do have an understanding of the infant immune system and the role of breast-feeding. Breast-feeding is awesome.
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I was never vaccinated, so why would I vaccinated my own children?

 



Do you and your children mix much with other people?
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#14 of 62 Old 02-04-2014, 04:05 PM
 
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"Mild in the vast majority of cases" may be true, but it ignores the numbers of people who are hospitalised, permanently damaged or die as a result. These victims weren't necessarily from any of the subgroups you mention. As an anecdotal example, my brother contracted hep A in Indonesia and was ill for more than 12 months. I can assure you he was fit, healthy and as always enjoyed excellent nutrition.

Describing my question as "paranoid" when you write on so many of your posts that we cannot trust the data, the organisations or the professionals seems a bit rich.

Your response also assumes that I'm "overly concerned about germs" which is untrue. If my daughter were not fully vaccinated I would be concerned.

 

You mean like the the only person that died of measles in Wales? I believe he was sent home from the hospital, and told to take Panadol (acetaminophen) which is a really bad idea if you have measles. He should have been given vitamin A.

 

Quote:

He was said to be vulnerable to infection as he had begun a detox two weeks before his death after suffering from alcohol problems. 

Consultant pathologist Dr Maurizio Brotto said at 5ft 8in, Mr Colfer-Williams was 'very underweight' weighing just 7st 7lbs.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2352740/Father-died-measles-South-Wales-outbreak-inoculated-disease-child.html#ixzz2sOh0bfeg 
 


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No, Rexeldexel, we live on a remote island in a cave.

 

What is the matter with you? Where are you going with this line of questioning? You are deliberately being extremely rude and arrogant.


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I'm very pleased to hear your happy story Mirzam. It is very rare to be so blessed with such good health.

I come from a different experience as my mother is a consultant paedeatrician and growing up would often talk about the vaccine-preventable diseases affecting the area. She is one of a few doctors on call in our area to respond to child deaths. Often these occur through accident, sometimes abuse and neglect and sometimes from preventable disease.

Yes I do have an understanding of the infant immune system and the role of breast-feeding. Breast-feeding is awesome.

 

I am no more blessed than anyone else with a modicum of good sense.

 

Can you please explain what you know about the infant immune system and why breastfeeding is vital for its proper development.


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#17 of 62 Old 02-04-2014, 04:10 PM
 
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No, Rexeldexel, we live on a remote island in a cave.

 

What is the matter with you? Where are you going with this line of questioning? You are deliberately being extremely rude and arrogant.

I really am not sure you live in the UK Rexeldexel because the country you describe is nothing like the country I grew up in and know and love. I live in the US now but my entire family are still in England.


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#18 of 62 Old 02-04-2014, 04:26 PM
 
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You mean like the the only person that died of measles in Wales? I believe he was sent home from the hospital, and told to take Panadol (acetaminophen) which is a really bad idea if you have measles. He should have been given vitamin A.

 



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2352740/Father-died-measles-South-Wales-outbreak-inoculated-disease-child.html#ixzz2sOh0bfeg 
 

I was not referring to measles in particular, but if you would like to continue to only discuss measles in order to ignore the other vaccine-preventable diseases that can cause damage or kill, that is your choice. 

 

These are the vaccinations my daughter has had or will be having. She is nearly 7 so you can see where we are upto. :)

 

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vaccinations/Pages/vaccination-schedule-age-checklist.aspx

 

measles can kill      http://www.hpa.org.uk/webw/HPAweb&HPAwebStandard/HPAweb_C/1195733835814

so can diptheria      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1018763/Unvaccinated-child-diphtheria-death-14-years.html

and pertussis     http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=20414

and tetanus       http://ceaccp.oxfordjournals.org/content/6/3/101.full

 

I won't bore you with the others, but they kill too. 

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#19 of 62 Old 02-04-2014, 04:34 PM
 
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I really am not sure you live in the UK Rexeldexel because the country you describe is nothing like the country I grew up in and know and love. I live in the US now but my entire family are still in England.

 

@Apple juice: I only meant that the risk with not vaccinating is if a vaccine preventable disease enters the community you are vulnerable to it, and the community is also more vulnerable to it.

 

If you live a secluded life in an area of low disease without many people visiting or leaving the area, the disease risk will be lower. 

 

I live a very active lifestyle with my daughter. I commute between uk cities and we travel internationally. My work causes me to come into contact with many people from many different walks of life and my daughter is always mixing with different groups of people too. In our circumstance I couldn't imagine choosing not to vaccinate. I didn't know about your circumstance so I asked. 

 

@Mirzam: I didn't describe the UK so I don't understand your comment. If you mean my description of my mum's experience, please just google child deaths in the uk. She looks after a large area. It's not that the UK is awful, it's that children die regularly even in 1st world countries. Very sad :( Even when my granny died, my mum couldn't stop to grieve until the following day as she had just had a call about an unexpected child death. :'(

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I am no more blessed than anyone else with a modicum of good sense.

 

Can you please explain what you know about the infant immune system and why breastfeeding is vital for its proper development.

I'm sure it takes more a "modicum of good sense" to avoid infections. Plenty of mothers are highly intelligent and sensible and their children still have had mild to severe health problems.

 

If you create a starting point for a conversation about infant immunity and breast milk (perhaps in another thread) that might help me to understand which aspects you are particularly interested in discussing :)

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I only meant that the risk with not vaccinating is if a vaccine preventable disease enters the community you are vulnerable to it, and the community is also more vulnerable to it.

 

If you live a secluded life in an area of low disease without many people visiting or leaving the area, the disease risk will be lower. 

 

I live a very active lifestyle with my daughter. I commute between uk cities and we travel internationally. My work causes me to come into contact with many people from many different walks of life and my daughter is always mixing with different groups of people too. In our circumstance I couldn't imagine choosing not to vaccinate. I didn't know about your circumstance so I asked. 

 

I didn't describe the UK so I don't understand your comment. 

 

Rexeldexel, is English your second language? I am having trouble understanding the points your are making sometimes and I don't think you are quite grasping what I am saying also. Let me explain something to to. I live in a county in the US that has one of the lowest vaccination rates in the country (highest rate of PhDs in the country though). Only 60% of the children are fully vaccinated, the remaining 40% are either unvaccinated or undervaccinated, by parental choice, the vaccine most decline is MMR. The only vaccine available disease that is common is pertussis. There have been no deaths, and the vast majority of cases are in fully vaccinated school children. At my DD's high school there was an outbreak last November, 48 kids got whooping cough, 46 were vaccinated including a DTap booster given at around 12 (7th grade), 2 kids were classified as non-compliant which means either unvaccinated or not up to date. My DD did not get sick. The last case of measles was in 2008, in an unvaxed 7 month old baby (too young to have been vaccinated). There has been no diphtheria since heaven knows when, I couldn't find any records. Clearly the vaccination rate is too low for herd immunity, so why is no one dropping like flies here?
 
The town we live in is very international with a major University with plenty of foreign students. My children have never been coddled, they have traveled overseas unvaccinated, including Central America. The only vaccine available disease I know they have is chicken pox, I suspect they had a very mild case of whooping cough, but it was never confirmed.

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#22 of 62 Old 02-04-2014, 04:53 PM
 
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I'm sure it takes more a "modicum of good sense" to avoid infections. Plenty of mothers are highly intelligent and sensible and their children still have had mild to severe health problems.

 

If you create a starting point for a conversation about infant immunity and breast milk (perhaps in another thread) that might help me to understand which aspects you are particularly interested in discussing :)

It is easy to avoid infections, that's what a fully functioning, natural immune system does.

 

Rexeldexel, are you copping out? Tell me what you know about the infant immune system and breast feeding because you seem to think that babies are completely vulnerable to infectious agents and that only vaccination can protect them. 


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#23 of 62 Old 02-04-2014, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Rexeldexel, before things get too heated, let me ask you a question.


You have either stated or implied that those of us who are more worried about severe adverse effects from vaccines should be more worried about the deadly diseases they are supposed to protect us from.

 

You have provided links that do support your position--but then again, we have made many valid points and supplied links as well.

 

Is it possible for you to actually consider the possibility that we might be right?  

 

What if we are right?

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Along with what Mirzam said... I live in the same state, different county/area but statewide I believe our vaxx rates tend to be on the lower end vs. other states. We homeschool so I am not up-to-date on the specifics of the pertussis outbreaks but they do occur every year. Two years ago I had a newborn during that time and decided to keep her at home, but being the postpartum period I think it is a good idea anyway. I have another baby due in August and will probably do the same for the first couple of months or so.

 

Last year our state had two cases of measles - an out of state visitor and another man that went to the same doctors office. Despite lower vaxx rates in our state it did not spread.

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It is easy to avoid infections, that's what a fully functioning, natural immune system does.

 

Rexeldexel, are you copping out? Tell me what you know about the infant immune system and breast feeding because you seem to think that babies are completely vulnerable to infectious agents and that only vaccination can protect them. 

Wow Mirzam thank you for being so rude and personal!

 

Copping out? No. You are trying to put me in a corner and I am asking you to be reasonable by suggesting a starting point.

 

It's easy to avoid infections? This is a reason why I'm particularly interested in whether non-vax mums believe and understand evolution. Microorganisms are trying to infect while macroorganisms are trying to resist. Diseases would be extinct if immunity was as easy as you suggest. 

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#26 of 62 Old 02-04-2014, 05:36 PM
 
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Rexeldexel, before things get too heated, let me ask you a question.


You have either stated or implied that those of us who are more worried about severe adverse effects from vaccines should be more worried about the deadly diseases they are supposed to protect us from.

 

You have provided links that do support your position--but then again, we have made many valid points and supplied links as well.

 

Is it possible for you to actually consider the possibility that we might be right?  

 

What if we are right?

 

 

If you're right I will notice as we go along.

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#27 of 62 Old 02-04-2014, 05:37 PM
 
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Along with what Mirzam said... I live in the same state, different county/area but statewide I believe our vaxx rates tend to be on the lower end vs. other states. We homeschool so I am not up-to-date on the specifics of the pertussis outbreaks but they do occur every year. Two years ago I had a newborn during that time and decided to keep her at home, but being the postpartum period I think it is a good idea anyway. I have another baby due in August and will probably do the same for the first couple of months or so.

 

Last year our state had two cases of measles - an out of state visitor and another man that went to the same doctors office. Despite lower vaxx rates in our state it did not spread.

Thank you fruitfulmomma. It's nice to know a little more about people and their circumstances :)

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#28 of 62 Old 02-04-2014, 05:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Rexeldexel View Post
 
 

Wow Mirzam thank you for being so rude and personal!

 

Copping out? No. You are trying to put me in a corner and I am asking you to be reasonable by suggesting a starting point.

 

It's easy to avoid infections? This is a reason why I'm particularly interested in whether non-vax mums believe and understand evolution. Microorganisms are trying to infect while macroorganisms are trying to resist. Diseases would be extinct if immunity was as easy as you suggest. 

 

Sorry you took it that way. I am asking YOU what YOU know. If you don't want to say, that's fine.

 

I am totally gobsmacked by your second paragraph. How on earth did life evolve and survive without vaccines?


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#29 of 62 Old 02-04-2014, 05:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post
 

 

Sorry you took it that way. I am asking YOU what YOU know. If you don't want to say, that's fine.

 

I am totally gobsmacked by your second paragraph. How on earth did life evolve and survive without vaccines?

:D That is EXACTLY how life on earth evolved! Organisms compete for resources and as one gets better the other improves too (or dies out). In the case of a discussion on vaccines, one of the organisms is a human and the other is a virus or bacteria. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_arms_race

 

I'm not writing you an essay on child immunology or the properties of breastmilk. But if there is something particular you would like to inform or ask me about go ahead!

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#30 of 62 Old 02-04-2014, 06:12 PM
 
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You do realize we are made up of more microbes than human cells and that we couldn't survived with out our microbiome?  It might be useful if you could explain your understanding of  'diseases' because it appears we are light years apart in our understanding of health and healing. So at this point, I can't see that I can waste any more of my time discussing this with you.

 

One last question, how is it my children have survived if all these horrible pathogens are waiting around every corner to strike them down. Them being unvaccinated and all?


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