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#91 of 143 Old 02-04-2014, 07:20 PM
 
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Wild animals don't get cancer. They eat a natural diet, they don't get vaccines.

http://www.livescience.com/9680-cancer-kills-wild-animals.html

 

 


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#92 of 143 Old 02-04-2014, 07:25 PM
 
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Documentation of breast cancer date back to 3000 BC in Egyptian mummies. 

 

Hippocrates, who died in 370 BC, was able to study it enough to give it the names carcinos and carcinoma. 

 

Cancer has been around A LONG time. 

 

http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancerbasics/thehistoryofcancer/the-history-of-cancer-what-is-cancer

 

"Human beings and other animals have had cancer throughout recorded history. So it’s no surprise that from the dawn of history people have written about cancer. Some of the earliest evidence of cancer is found among fossilized bone tumors, human mummies in ancient Egypt, and ancient manuscripts. Growths suggestive of the bone cancer called osteosarcoma have been seen in mummies. Bony skull destruction as seen in cancer of the head and neck has been found, too.

Our oldest description of cancer (although the word cancer was not used) was discovered in Egypt and dates back to about 3000 BC. It is called the Edwin Smith Papyrus and is a copy of part of an ancient Egyptian textbook on trauma surgery. It describes 8 cases of tumors or ulcers of the breast that were treated by cauterization with a tool called the fire drill. The writing says about the disease, “There is no treatment.”

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#93 of 143 Old 02-04-2014, 07:27 PM
 
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http://www.livescience.com/9680-cancer-kills-wild-animals.html

 

 

yes again caused by human error.


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#94 of 143 Old 02-04-2014, 07:27 PM
 
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And wild animals DO get cancer.  

 

In fact, the only animal that has never been shown to get cancer is the naked mole rat. 


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#95 of 143 Old 02-04-2014, 07:29 PM
 
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Documentation of breast cancer date back to 3000 BC in Egyptian mummies.

 

Hippocrates, who died in 370 BC, was able to study it enough to give it the names carcinos and carcinoma.

 

Cancer has been around A LONG time. 

 

http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancerbasics/thehistoryofcancer/the-history-of-cancer-what-is-cancer

 

"Human beings and other animals have had cancer throughout recorded history. So it’s no surprise that from the dawn of history people have written about cancer. Some of the earliest evidence of cancer is found among fossilized bone tumors, human mummies in ancient Egypt, and ancient manuscripts. Growths suggestive of the bone cancer called osteosarcoma have been seen in mummies. Bony skull destruction as seen in cancer of the head and neck has been found, too.

Our oldest description of cancer (although the word cancer was not used) was discovered in Egypt and dates back to about 3000 BC. It is called the Edwin Smith Papyrus and is a copy of part of an ancient Egyptian textbook on trauma surgery. It describes 8 cases of tumors or ulcers of the breast that were treated by cauterization with a tool called the fire drill. The writing says about the disease, “There is no treatment.”

Poor diet in ancient Egypt too. To get to pre-cancer you have to go way back.


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#96 of 143 Old 02-04-2014, 07:34 PM
 
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you have to put it in perspective. cancer is very rare in ancient humans and in wild animals but VERY common in modern humans. why not just add 2 +2 here? what has changed? it's a no brainer.


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#97 of 143 Old 02-04-2014, 07:34 PM
 
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yes again caused by human error.

 

And viruses.  Did you read the article?


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#98 of 143 Old 02-04-2014, 07:36 PM
 
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you have to put it in perspective. cancer is very rare in ancient humans and in wild animals but VERY common in modern humans. why not just add 2 +2 here? what has changed? it's a no brainer.


The article I posted states that wild animals die of cancer at approximately the same rate humans do.

 

Ancient humans died of accidents and infections.  They didn't live long enough to develop cancer.

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#99 of 143 Old 02-04-2014, 07:37 PM
 
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And viruses.  Did you read the article?

yes they were infected by virus brought in by humans. humans are a gigantic mess.


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#100 of 143 Old 02-04-2014, 07:39 PM
 
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Were there cases of pediatric and adolescent cancer deaths back then? 


 
 
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#101 of 143 Old 02-04-2014, 07:39 PM
 
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The article I posted states that wild animals die of cancer at approximately the same rate humans do.

 

Ancient humans died of accidents and infections.  They didn't live long enough to develop cancer.

http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/news/wildlife-cancer


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#102 of 143 Old 02-04-2014, 07:40 PM
 
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Were there cases of pediatric and adolescent cancer deaths back then? 

 

I'm pretty sure there were, but don't have proof at the moment.


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#103 of 143 Old 02-04-2014, 07:42 PM
 
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I'm not arguing that man-made carcinogens DON'T cause cancer.  I'm arguing that it's untrue that ALL cancer is caused by "human error".

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#104 of 143 Old 02-04-2014, 07:49 PM
 
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I'm not arguing that man-made carcinogens DON'T cause cancer.  I'm arguing that it's untrue that ALL cancer is caused by "human error".

 

 

I agree with this. It is also my understanding that cancer occurs throughout the body even in healthy individuals. We all carry cancerous cells and our bodies are always killing them off, unless the body is overloaded with toxins, is unhealthy, or exposed to high levels of carcinogens or certain viruses. When the body is overwhelmed, it is unable to handle the cancer and that is when cancer takes over. 


 
 
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#105 of 143 Old 02-04-2014, 08:12 PM
 
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I won't pretend to know what all the causes of cancer are; let alone what causes pediatric cancer in particular, but I'm sorry, I don't buy the whole "it just happens naturally" thing. I think that would be hard to judge at this point, given the fact that we're all exposed to much that is damaging to our bodies. 

 

Also, on the statement about the body being overwhelmed by too many things to handle, allowing cancerous cells to take hold, I have to believe that there is something to that. My baby showed symptoms of his cancer from birth (which I know only looking retrospectively after seeing all the effects of his tumors and understanding it better), but those symptoms became dramatically more severe within a week of his first full round of vaccinations. (We're talking going from vomiting once or twice a day to violent projectile vomiting at least 6 to 8 times a day. There was no gentle progression.) Again, not saying that those vaccines caused his cancer, but they certainly seemed to impact his immune system on some level, allowing the cancer to progress much faster than it would have otherwise. My husband has since questioned an immunologist about the possibility that those vaccines allowed the cancer to have the chance to grow more quickly, and he admitted that it was quite possible.  Even when his tumors returned after his short remission, they didn't grow that quickly to cause a dramatic upsurge in symptoms like we saw that week after his vaccinations. So I know, it's anecdotal and easily written off, but it is the major reason I don't intend to load another child up with vaccines all at once like that again. I'm not anti-vaccine, but I sure want to exercise caution after watching that happen.

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Cancer rates to surge 57%.  I wonder why?

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/cancer-rates-will-surge-57--in-next-20-years--report-says-214058228.html

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Rednightingale, your story brings tears to my eyes! From one mother to another, I am so sorry this happened!

I do believe vaccines could have aggravated your son's immune system.  After all, vaccines stimulate an immune response, and he was already dealing with cancer. This is the same reason why doctors shouldn't vaccinate a child who is ill or even has a minor cold, yet it happens all the time. It takes many complaining parents to raise awareness!

 

I wonder, were there studies showing that vaccinating ill children could sometimes cause adverse reactions, or was it anecdotal evidence from parents who raised awareness of the issue? Maybe a combination of both? (seriously, are there studies because I really don't know)

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#108 of 143 Old 02-04-2014, 08:57 PM
 
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I won't pretend to know what all the causes of cancer are; let alone what causes pediatric cancer in particular, but I'm sorry, I don't buy the whole "it just happens naturally" thing. I think that would be hard to judge at this point, given the fact that we're all exposed to much that is damaging to our bodies. 

 

Also, on the statement about the body being overwhelmed by too many things to handle, allowing cancerous cells to take hold, I have to believe that there is something to that. My baby showed symptoms of his cancer from birth (which I know only looking retrospectively after seeing all the effects of his tumors and understanding it better), but those symptoms became dramatically more severe within a week of his first full round of vaccinations. (We're talking going from vomiting once or twice a day to violent projectile vomiting at least 6 to 8 times a day. There was no gentle progression.) Again, not saying that those vaccines caused his cancer, but they certainly seemed to impact his immune system on some level, allowing the cancer to progress much faster than it would have otherwise. My husband has since questioned an immunologist about the possibility that those vaccines allowed the cancer to have the chance to grow more quickly, and he admitted that it was quite possible.  Even when his tumors returned after his short remission, they didn't grow that quickly to cause a dramatic upsurge in symptoms like we saw that week after his vaccinations. So I know, it's anecdotal and easily written off, but it is the major reason I don't intend to load another child up with vaccines all at once like that again. I'm not anti-vaccine, but I sure want to exercise caution after watching that happen.

and what is really awful-IMO that because IF not you are following "the program" you  get lumped into that group of UNDERvaccinated (those who contribute to bringing back disease & harm the herd along with the .3% that have no vaccines at all)

 

 

 

 

ETA - do you have any hope of getting into any study that would look into what was said to your DH? I hope that someone would look into things for your family's sake - very sad to hear. I do find "anecdotal" important but I know it doesn't count to others.

 

My husband has since questioned an immunologist about the possibility that those vaccines allowed the cancer to have the chance to grow more quickly, and he admitted that it was quite possible.

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#109 of 143 Old 02-05-2014, 08:54 AM
 
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I won't pretend to know what all the causes of cancer are; let alone what causes pediatric cancer in particular, but I'm sorry, I don't buy the whole "it just happens naturally" thing. I think that would be hard to judge at this point, given the fact that we're all exposed to much that is damaging to our bodies.

 

Also, on the statement about the body being overwhelmed by too many things to handle, allowing cancerous cells to take hold, I have to believe that there is something to that. My baby showed symptoms of his cancer from birth (which I know only looking retrospectively after seeing all the effects of his tumors and understanding it better), but those symptoms became dramatically more severe within a week of his first full round of vaccinations. (We're talking going from vomiting once or twice a day to violent projectile vomiting at least 6 to 8 times a day. There was no gentle progression.) Again, not saying that those vaccines caused his cancer, but they certainly seemed to impact his immune system on some level, allowing the cancer to progress much faster than it would have otherwise. My husband has since questioned an immunologist about the possibility that those vaccines allowed the cancer to have the chance to grow more quickly, and he admitted that it was quite possible.  Even when his tumors returned after his short remission, they didn't grow that quickly to cause a dramatic upsurge in symptoms like we saw that week after his vaccinations. So I know, it's anecdotal and easily written off, but it is the major reason I don't intend to load another child up with vaccines all at once like that again. I'm not anti-vaccine, but I sure want to exercise caution after watching that happen.

I am so sorry for you and your baby to have gone through that :(

 

Cigarette smoking affects the offspring for the next 3-5 generations, so why wouldn't the exposure to all of those military vaccines have possibly done the same genetic damage? Everything we do has an effect on our cells and the expression of our genes, either protection (integrity of the cell and genes) or damage. We know which things fight cancer and which things cause it. Virus are known to cause cancer....vaccines contain virus.

 

My cat had lymphoma (it was blatantly obvious in her eye), the vet insisted she get a rabies vaccine before he would even examine her. Well thanks to his vaccine (forcing her already damaged system to now deal with an immune response to the rabies virus!!!!!), we took her home after a misdiagnosis and she rapidly plummeted to death. Later they found her lungs had filled up with fluid which is typical for lymphoma. She was a rescue cat, we have no idea how many vaccines she was subject to before we rescued her, which is what I believe played a role in her lymphoma.

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#110 of 143 Old 02-05-2014, 09:14 AM
 
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Cancer rates to surge 57%.  I wonder why?

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/cancer-rates-will-surge-57--in-next-20-years--report-says-214058228.html

 

Did you read your own link?  

 

"In other words, the more advanced a country becomes, the longer its population lives, which drives up the total number of cancer cases even if other factors remain the same.

For example, the report says that if cancer cases in the U.S. are adjusted for an increasing average lifespan, the number of fatal cancer cases is actually decreasing."  

 

 


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#111 of 143 Old 02-05-2014, 09:17 AM
 
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Did you read your own link?  

 

"In other words, the more advanced a country becomes, the longer its population lives, which drives up the total number of cancer cases even if other factors remain the same.

For example, the report says that if cancer cases in the U.S. are adjusted for an increasing average lifespan, the number of fatal cancer cases is actually decreasing."  

 

 

 

So why is there a rise in cancer in children and young adults?

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#112 of 143 Old 02-05-2014, 09:22 AM
 
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So why is there a rise in cancer in children and young adults?

 

Is it because less of them are dying from vaccine preventable diseases perhaps?


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#113 of 143 Old 02-05-2014, 09:27 AM
 
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Is it because less of them are dying from vaccine preventable diseases perhaps?

I doubt it because the death rates for vaccine available diseases where drastically reduced (99.6% reduction in the UK of measles deaths prior to the introduction of the measles vaccine in 1971) before the introduction of vaccines. The other problem is the vast numbers of children with auto immune conditions and autism and learning disabilities. 

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I agree with this. It is also my understanding that cancer occurs throughout the body even in healthy individuals. We all carry cancerous cells and our bodies are always killing them off, unless the body is overloaded with toxins, is unhealthy, or exposed to high levels of carcinogens or certain viruses. When the body is overwhelmed, it is unable to handle the cancer and that is when cancer takes over.

again this means we cause our own cancer. "human error".

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#115 of 143 Old 02-05-2014, 09:29 AM
 
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So why is there a rise in cancer in children and young adults?

 

Here's what the National Cancer Institute says . 

 

"Long-term trends in incidence for leukemias and brain tumors, the most common childhood cancers, show patterns that are somewhat different from the others. Incidence of childhood leukemias appeared to rise in the early 1980s, with rates increasing from 3.3 cases per 100,000 in 1975 to 4.6 cases per 100,000 in 1985. Rates in the succeeding years have shown no consistent upward or downward trend and have ranged from 3.7 to 4.9 cases per 100,000 (2).

For childhood brain tumors, the overall incidence rose from 1975 through 2004, from 2.3 to 3.2 cases per 100,000 (2), with the greatest increase occurring from 1983 through l986. An article in the September 2, 1998, issue of the Journal of the National Cancer Institute suggests that the rise in incidence from 1983 through 1986 may not have represented a true increase in the number of cases, but may have reflected new forms of imaging equipment (magnetic resonance imaging or MRI) that enabled visualization of brain tumors that could not be easily visualized with older equipment (3). Other important developments during this time period included the changing classification of brain tumors, which resulted in tumors previously designated as “benign” being reclassified as “malignant,” and improvements in neurosurgical techniques for biopsying brain tumors. Regardless of the explanation for the increase in incidence that occurred from 1983 to 1986, childhood brain tumor incidence has been essentially stable since the mid-1980s." 

 

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Sites-Types/childhood

 

 


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Childhood cancer (0 -14 yrs) latest figures 2010:

Leukemia 5 cases per 100,000

Brain 3.5 caes per  100,000

 

(I can google too)

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I find this quote revealing, why do you think this is the case? If we assume that cancer is some sort of immune problem, what has caused our immune system to be unable to resolve cancers to the point in the not too distant future that 1 in 2 people will develop it during their lifetime?

 

Quote:
No hospital admissions for gastric cancer or peptic ulcer were recorded prior to 1800 (based on inpatient records of the last two centuries from four hospitals in Scotland and three US hospitals). Hospital admissions for gastric cancer increased in an exponential fashion throughout the 19th and the beginning of the 20th century…occurrence of gastric cancer, gastric ulcer and duodenal ulcer markedly increased during the 19th century.’
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2036.2010.04413.x/full – refer to ‘Abstract’ tab

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#118 of 143 Old 02-05-2014, 10:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post
 

I find this quote revealing, why do you think this is the case? If we assume that cancer is some sort of immune problem, what has caused our immune system to be unable to resolve cancers to the point in the not too distant future that 1 in 2 people will develop it during their lifetime?

 

 

Just off the top of my head....

 

"Most people diagnosed with stomach cancer are between their late 60s and 80s."

 

http://www.cancer.org/cancer/stomachcancer/detailedguide/stomach-cancer-risk-factors

 

The life expectancy of people during the 1700s was around mid thirties IIRC. 


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#119 of 143 Old 02-05-2014, 10:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by teacozy View Post

 

Just off the top of my head....

 

"Most people diagnosed with stomach cancer are between their late 60s and 80s."

 

http://www.cancer.org/cancer/stomachcancer/detailedguide/stomach-cancer-risk-factors

 

The life expectancy of people during the 1700s was around mid thirties IIRC. 

Not everyone died in their thirties in the 18th century, so there must have been some 60 year olds around, so you would have to expect a few cases, but there were NONE.

 

Here is a link to an article on some of the Revolutionary War's youngest soldiers. They all survived and lived to an impressive age, impressive for the 21st century.

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"If you find from your own experience that something is a fact and it contradicts what some authority has written down, then you must abandon the authority and base your reasoning on your own findings"~ Leonardo da Vinci

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#120 of 143 Old 02-05-2014, 11:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post
 

Not everyone died in their thirties in the 18th century, so there must have been some 60 year olds around, so you would have to expect a few cases, but there were NONE.

 

Here is a link to an article on some of the Revolutionary War's youngest soldiers. They all survived and lived to an impressive age, impressive for the 21st century.

 

That's not true.  In the link in the PP it says "The first patient with gastric cancer was admitted to the hospital in 1787"  in the Aberdeen Royal Infirmary. 

 

A cancer that primarily affects people in their late 60s, 70s, and 80s is not going to be seen very often during the 1700s.  You also have to remember how much smaller the population would have been back then. 


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