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-   -   Military and Vaccines (http://www.mothering.com/forum/47-vaccinations/1396909-military-vaccines.html)

Kyle Rutherford 02-02-2014 06:38 PM

Vaccines in the military are mandatory. Every year, each soldier is subjected to at least 15 vaccines. They are a group that gets vaccinated the most out of any other group in the US.

If vaccines are dangerous, why would the government give them to their troops?

Why haven't troops shown a deleterious effect to these innumerable vaccines?


Mirzam 02-02-2014 06:40 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Rutherford View Post
 

Vaccines in the military are mandatory. Every year, each soldier is subjected to at least 15 vaccines. They are a group that gets vaccinated the most out of any other group in the US.

If vaccines are dangerous, why would the government give them to their troops?

Why haven't troops shown a deleterious effect to these innumerable vaccines?

:rotflmao


Kyle Rutherford 02-02-2014 06:41 PM

No response, I see.


Taximom5 02-02-2014 06:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Rutherford View Post
 

No response, I see.


Um, sometimes it takes more than 4 minutes for a response to come in.  We aren't exactly at your beck and call, you know.

Why are you under the impression that the troops have no deleterious effects from the vaccinations?  Are you a member of the military yourself?  What peer-reviewed studies can you show that there are no adverse effects?  Are you assuming that adverse effects would be obvious in all military personnel, or are you acknowledging that there might be subgroups who have predispositions to adverse effects?  Or do you think those subgroups are acceptable collateral damage?  What about long-term effects, like autoimmune disorders, which may take months to show obvious symptoms after triggering?

 

I suspect that Mirzam's response is because your, um, assumption that there are no "deleterious effects" is very naive.  And mistaken.


Kyle Rutherford 02-02-2014 06:50 PM

Quote:
Um, sometimes it takes more than 4 minutes for a response to come in.  We aren't exactly at your beck and call, you know.

Not sure if you have Mirzam blocked or not, but my response was in response to her.


Mirzam 02-02-2014 06:53 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post
 
 

Um, sometimes it takes more than 4 minutes for a response to come in.  We aren't exactly at your beck and call, you know.

Why are you under the impression that the troops have no deleterious effects from the vaccinations?  Are you a member of the military yourself?  What peer-reviewed studies can you show that there are no adverse effects?  Are you assuming that adverse effects would be obvious in all military personnel, or are you acknowledging that there might be subgroups who have predispositions to adverse effects?  Or do you think those subgroups are acceptable collateral damage?  What about long-term effects, like autoimmune disorders, which may take months to show obvious symptoms after triggering?

 

I suspect that Mirzam's response is because your, um, assumption that there are no "deleterious effects" is very naive.  And mistaken.

 

Correct Taxi.


Kyle Rutherford 02-02-2014 06:55 PM

Quote:
Are you a member of the military yourself? ​

Use to be. Friend of my brothers is an officer who I discussed vaccines with as well.
He said that there has only been 1 case and that was with the anthrax vaccine and the guy ended up being allergic.. which is understandable.

Show me the studies demonstrating deleterious effects if there are any, then, among military individuals. I haven't seen any and no one I have asked about this has supplied me with any for the last two years.
 


Taximom5 02-02-2014 07:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Rutherford View Post
 

Use to be. Friend of my brothers is an officer who I discussed vaccines with as well.
He said that there has only been 1 case and that was with the anthrax vaccine and the guy ended up being allergic.. which is understandable.

Show me the studies demonstrating deleterious effects if there are any, then, among military individuals. I haven't seen any and no one I have asked about this has supplied me with any for the last two years.
 

 

"Use to be."  Do you mean that you used to be a member of the military? 

Is your only information on adverse effects from vaccines among military individuals from your conversation with a friend of your brother's?

 

Here is some information to get you started:

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2002/11/gao-military-anthrax-shots-caused-many-reactions-prompted-some-pilots-quit

 

http://veteransfamiliesunited.org/wp-content/uploads/file/squalene.pdf


applejuice 02-02-2014 07:13 PM

As the wife and  mother of military men, you are wrong.

 

And when these men get the anthrax and smallpox vaccine, they are told NOT to donate blood. Why would that be?


rednightingale 02-02-2014 07:14 PM

Well, it has finally happened. I am a brand new member; but a very long-time lurker on mothering, particularly on the vaxing boards and this post finally gave me the kick in the butt to register, just so I could respond.

 

I don't have any scientific studies to go to to respond to this post, but I am a military wife, and the mother of a child who died of a very rare type of cancer a couple years back. That experience has really caused me to stop and think about a lot of things, including, and especially, what we put into our bodies and our children's bodies. My daughter is almost fully vaccinated (missing one varicella vaccine, possibly one other that was added to the schedule later, prevnar maybe?) and my son has his full round of 2 month vaccines when he was three months old on the advice of our pediatrician who I really liked and respected (still do, although we've moved so he is no longer our pediatrician), in spite of some reservations I was having at the time about giving so many vaccines at once. He had no vaccines after that, as he was diagnosed with AT/RT just shy of 5 months of age and started treatment immediately. He didn't survive long enough for me to ever revisit the issue. If I had to classify myself on this spectrum, I would consider myself vaccine-skeptical, leaning towards delayed/selective vaccination.

 

As far as vaccinating the military goes, this is how I perceive it having watched my husband go through it:

 

It's an easy test group because if the military makes something mandatory for service, there isn't much that a service member can do about it, whether they have concerns about it or not. Whether the vaccines have been proven safe or not isn't so much of an issue with this particular group as a result.

 

I find it interesting that you are making a blanket statement that our troops are suffering deleterious effects from being so vaccinated. Are you positive about that? Are you a military member? Are you married to one? Do you live in a military community? 

 

Living on base in Quantico I have never met so many families with special needs children - and I'm not just talking autistic spectrum special needs here, although there were many children with those needs. I'm talking about children with really bizarre and rare conditions (like my son's) that either did or will result in the death of those children at some point. For example, my son's cancer was, after genetic testing, determined to be a result of a gene mutation - but it was not genetically inherited from either my husband or myself, as neither of us carries this gene mutation. What triggered that mutation? Can you say for certain that it wasn't a result of the heavy cocktail of vaccines that my husband had received in recent years? It may not have been, but it is possible. Something had to have triggered that modification, and nobody can explain to me what it was or even what it could possibly have been. I'm not ruling anything out at this point; I am exercising serious caution when it comes to everything that goes into my body, my husband's body and my children's bodies.

 

Our troops are exposed to an alarming number of things that are extremely dangerous to them. Just because it's not openly discussed doesn't mean that it's not happening. My husband was exposed to some terrible environmental pollutions in Iraq. A lot of the tools utilized by our troops in war are extremely dangerous in terms of radiation and other harmful exposures. I know of many families whose fertility was impacted directly in one way or another as a result of those exposures - these things are common knowledge among military members. Just because you're not seeing the deleterious effects in an obvious way doesn't mean that they aren't there. (In fact, any of those factors could also have been the trigger for my son's cancer. Or it could have been environmental toxins I was exposed to. I really can't pretend to know.) There are reasons that the disability claims among military members are so high - they are required to put their bodies through absolute hell during their careers. I find it to be quite arrogant for anyone who hasn't experienced that first-hand to make assertions about what the government would or would not expose the troops to. They are constantly exposed to very harmful and dangerous things.

 

Anyhow, I suppose that my post is probably not scientific enough for you, so it begs the question why bother responding, but even without the science to back me up, I do believe that my questions and observations from living in this community for several years and also through personal experience are quite valid.


Kyle Rutherford 02-02-2014 07:16 PM

Quote:
Use to be."  Do you mean that you used to be a member of the military? 



Well, since 'use' can often be used as 'past tense' .. yes?

 

Quote:
Is your only information on adverse effects from vaccines among military individuals from your conversation with a friend of your brother's?

And the fact that I have yet been given scientific studies on military personal and vaccines.

Your study doesn't seem to have a proper control group, which is difficult to do with military personal... since they are humans. Lets try to reproduce their results in mice.


Taximom5 02-02-2014 07:27 PM

Welcome aboard, rednightingale!  We are very glad to have you here; I'm sure you can offer a lot of insight to many here.

 

I don't know how long ago you lost your child, but my thoughts and prayers are with you.  Thank you for sharing your experience.


rednightingale 02-02-2014 07:29 PM

Thanks Taximom5! I have read many of your posts, and I appreciate that thoughtful way that you share your information and views. 

 

In a few months it will be 3 years since my son passed. Thank you for your kind words; it was something that I would never wish on anyone.


Taximom5 02-02-2014 07:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Rutherford View Post
 



Well, since 'use' can often be used as 'past tense' .. yes?

 

 

 

I'm finding your choice of words very interesting.  "Use to be" is not grammatically correct as past tense usage.  I'm also wondering why you answered the direct question ("did you mean you used to be in the military?") with  "...yes?"

 

That question mark looks like legal games to me, like you wish to avoid directly answering the question, or like you are not sure whether or not you were in the military.

 

What branch of the military were you in, how long and where did you serve, and why did you leave?


Mirzam 02-02-2014 07:31 PM

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Welcome rednightingale, I am so sorry for your loss. I can't imagine how it must feel. 


Taximom5 02-02-2014 07:32 PM

rednightingale (love that name), I have heard from many military wives that the rate of special-needs children amongst military families is absolutely astronomical.

I think this message needs to get out more.


Kyle Rutherford 02-02-2014 07:38 PM

I was in the army. 


Rednightingale - I may have misunderstood you, but did you say, "My son died of cancer and vaccines caused his cancer" ? 


Mirzam 02-02-2014 07:42 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Rutherford View Post
 
I was in the army. 


Rednightingale - I may have misunderstood you, but did you say, "My son died of cancer and vaccines caused his cancer" ? 

 

Kyle, please don't go there. Aspie or not, it is not appropriate.


Mirzam 02-02-2014 07:43 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post
 

rednightingale (love that name), I have heard from many military wives that the rate of special-needs children amongst military families is absolutely astronomical.

I think this message needs to get out more.

I have heard this too. 


applejuice 02-02-2014 07:46 PM

The VA website admits that its use of the air gun vaccine deliverance device through the Vietnam era was the cause of Hepatitis C.

 

Therefore, along with the risks of the vaccines that these troops received, they got a risk for a new disease. 


rednightingale 02-02-2014 07:46 PM

Did I say that? I'm pretty sure that I was extremely careful to say that I have no idea what exactly caused my son's cancer, and I would caution to you to be very careful in misinterpreting my words. I have little to no patience for people who are intentionally nasty and antagonistic, particularly as it relates to my experience with my son. Do not put words into my mouth.

 

What I clearly said was that my experience with my son's cancer has caused me to really question everything that I put into my and my children's bodies. Nowhere did I make any sort of definitive statement as to what caused my son's cancer, just posing questions, like any parent in my situation does.


applejuice 02-02-2014 07:48 PM

Oh, oh!


Taximom5 02-02-2014 07:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Rutherford View Post
 


I was in the army.

 

How long and where did you serve?  Why did you leave?  


mamabear0314 02-02-2014 07:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post
 

 

How long and where did you serve?  Why did you leave?  

Better question...what was your MOS?


Kyle Rutherford 02-02-2014 07:56 PM

19D


Kyle Rutherford 02-02-2014 07:56 PM

Quote:
Why did you leave?  ​

Medical.


IdentityCrisisMama 02-02-2014 08:05 PM

Kyle, RN specifically asked you not to put words in her mouth. This started as a fun debate thread. I'm guessing a fun distraction from a crappy football game. But then a mother who lost a child chose to share her story with us. That changed the dynamic of the thread. This is the nature of a discussion. Please show respect for this. Any member who can't do that will be locked out of the thread. 


Kyle Rutherford 02-02-2014 08:07 PM

Since I am from Washington, I thought it was an awesome football game. ;)


rednightingale 02-02-2014 08:12 PM

Wow, for someone who presumably has an advanced degree, you have a serious reading comprehension problem. You are continuing to put words into my mouth - nowhere did I say that I reject every doctor's opinion and don't put anything into my children's bodies. You are correct - that is quite a leap; one that you made, not me!

 

I question what goes into their bodies, and what they are exposed to. That questioning, for me, really started when my son was diagnosed with cancer, which is why I mentioned it. That's actually not that tricky to understand if you just read what I write and take it at face value. That questioning is certainly not limited to vaccines, and I happen to believe that questioning is an important part of the process of receiving medical care. All the good doctors that I've had the pleasure of meeting and collaborating on my and my children's care with value that trait, so I'm not sure why you're threatened by it. 


Kyle Rutherford 02-02-2014 08:13 PM

Quote:
I question what goes into their bodies, and what they are exposed to. ​

Formaldehyde is used to formulate a lot of vaccines. They make a virus inert. They shut the virus down, so to speak.

What does formaldehyde do inside of our bodies?



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