Do I need to vax for my child to attend school? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
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#31 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 10:08 AM
 
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If the OP feels that the possible benefits of flu and chickenpox vaccines are not worth the risk they'd pose to her child, isn't that a strong moral or ethical conviction similar to a religious belief?  How on earth would that be considered a lie?

 

What are the ethical ramifications of a for-profit industry recommending an invasive medical procedure that some people feel are not worth the risk?

As long as you are bringing up the issue of lying, at what point might you consider it acceptable to lie to avoid having your child harmed by an invasive medical procedure whose mandate was brought about by lies?

I would like to know these answers too.


 

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#32 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 10:10 AM
 
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Typically, you cannot pick and choose some vaccines with public school admission. You can get a waiver in most states, against all vaccines; or you can get the required vaccinations. I don't think any states allow waivers from only certain vaccines. 

 

Some private schools don't require vaccines. Some private schools allow no waivers. It's up to them.

 

Everything above is NOT correct. 

 

States with philosophical exemptions (20 states) allow opting out of one, two, multiple, or all vaccines. In states with only religious exemptions, it depends on the wording of the law. Every state law is worded differently. And, if the school doesn't know what vaccines your child has gotten (if you've opted out of the state's vaccine registry), it doesn't matter.

 

School vaccine laws are made at the state level, and apply equally to public and private schools. Except for one or two states, the exemption laws treat public and private schools the same.

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#33 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 10:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

(Posted by someone who did not receive flu shots while pregnant, and whose children did not receive chicken pox vaccine, hep B, or flu vaccines at the ages currently recommended by the CDC.)

Not that PSM is an exemption critic, but this is something I want to scream from the mountain tops at exemption critics: Taking away someone else's rights will one day affect your own. For most parents with an open mind, there WILL be a time when you question a mandated/compulsory/required medical intervention.

Those who call for an end to non-med exemptions are shooting themselves in the foot. There really is a Big Picture to all of this.

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#34 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 10:15 AM
 
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If she doesn't have a sincerely held religious belief, she shouldn't manufacture one.  "Not worth it" is not really a deeply and sincerely held spiritual belief.

 

So you do think it's okay for kids to be barred from a public education for a parent's vaccine choices. Got it.

 

But, as I pointed out previously by posting the text of the law, this is a moot point for her, since Pennsylvania law does not require there to be a religious belief against vaccines to get the exemption for school.

 

It is a strong ethical conviction of mine, that drugs should not be used unless they are necessary and the benefits outweigh the risks. Otherwise, I am harming myself or my family, which is morally wrong.

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#35 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 10:31 AM
 
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Not that PSM is an exemption critic, but this is something I want to scream from the mountain tops at exemption critics: Taking away someone else's rights will one day affect your own. For most parents with an open mind, there WILL be a time when you question a mandated/compulsory/required medical intervention.

Those who call for an end to non-med exemptions are shooting themselves in the foot. There really is a Big Picture to all of this.

:yeah

 

oh come on now……..it's the pesky "compliance" thingy :laugh people who have a legitimate medical exemptions to vaccines  http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1397395/the-decsion-to-vaccinate-or-not-should-only-have-natural-consequences/40

 

it's going to be from one side and it's sure not the ANTI vaccine side pushing for these legal rights to be removed

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#36 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 07:55 PM
 
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In my state once can get an exemption (moral or religious) out of any or just some vaccines. It's a printed form, which the doctor just checks the ones the parent declines.
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#37 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 08:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nukuspot View Post

In my state once can get an exemption (moral or religious) out of any or just some vaccines. It's a printed form, which the doctor just checks the ones the parent declines.

Stay tuned. About 24 state legislatures are looking at changes to their vaccine exemptions, so stay on top of it. Be prepared. Nothing is set in stone here.

https://nvicadvocacy.org/members/Home.aspx

 

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#38 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 08:41 PM
 
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Ours just changed last year to this form (needing a doctor to sign off) so I don't expect it to change much more soon. But I'll be on the lookout.
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#39 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 08:42 PM
 
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That bill watch link is GREAT! Wow.

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#40 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 08:43 PM
 
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Oh man....They want me to register first before I can see it? Why? That info should be public! I'm not going to register. Boo to the NVIC.

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#41 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 09:35 PM
 
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No, just scroll down.

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#42 of 56 Old 02-17-2014, 04:26 AM
 
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I asked a  question about what counts as "a strong religious or moral objection" to vaccines, and in response a user posts assumptions (which actually are wrong in many places) about my and my children's medical history. And that's a contribution which two other users "like". I have my big girl pants on but I think that's a bit beyond even the debate threads. I have flagged it, but in the spirit of trying to keep this as friendly as possible I'd appreciate if the user (Taximom) would be nice enough to self edit.

 

OP - post in the Selective and Delayed for supportive answers if this thread isn't what you were looking for (which I suspect it wasn't).  

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#43 of 56 Old 02-17-2014, 05:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

I asked a  question about what counts as "a strong religious or moral objection" to vaccines, and in response a user posts assumptions (which actually are wrong in many places) about my and my children's medical history. And that's a contribution which two other users "like". I have my big girl pants on but I think that's a bit beyond even the debate threads. I have flagged it, but in the spirit of trying to keep this as friendly as possible I'd appreciate if the user (Taximom) would be nice enough to self edit.

OP - post in the Selective and Delayed for supportive answers if this thread isn't what you were looking for (which I suspect it wasn't).  

Not assuming--you posted that medical history yourself:
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Since HepB at brith has come up several times, I just wanted to comment that in the UK this is only offered at birth to babies of mothers who have tested positive for Hep B. It is available later at any age for children considered at high risk of exposure. 

My daughter was born in the US, but I'm pretty sure she didn't get it at birth either. I don't remember it ever coming up. 

You have also been clear that you now live in the UK, where vaccine recommendations and mandates are very, very different from those in the US.

Varicella vaccine is not part of the UK infant vaccination schedule. Rotavirus was only added in October of 2013. Both are on the US schedule for infants in the first year of life, with Rotavirus vaccine being given at 2, 4, and 6 months (in combination with FIVE other vaccines at age 2 months) and varicella vaccine being given at 12 months (in combination with at least 4 other vaccines, possibly 6, if flu shot and Hep A are given at this visit).

Flu shots are not part of the UK schedule for infants under the age of 2, whereas in the US, infants 6 and older receive 2 flu shots (often the thimerosal-preserved version) the first year, and one annually thereafter. The only flu vaccine recommended in the UK is the nasal mist, for children ages 2 and 3. At this time, flu vaccine is not part of the NHS schedule for children of any other age. http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vaccinations/Pages/child-flu-vaccine.aspx

In fact, in the UK, vaccines are "offered," they are not mandatory, and unvaccinated children are not barred from schools as they are in the US.

I do recall you posting that you had been given the swine flu vaccine while pregnant--I believe that would have been in 2009 or early 2010, when the vaccine was only for swine flu and not yet combined with the seasonal flu shot? In the US, the "flu vaccine" is now a combination of swine flu vaccine and seasonal flu shot, which, according to Canadian studies, is more likely to result in coming down with the flu. It also seems to be linked with a higher rate of miscarriage, and health care workers in the US, even pregnant women, are fired if they refuse it. This does not happen in the UK.

I think it's completely relevant to point out inconsistencies. Your post, which I quoted, was phrased as a question, but clearly implied that someone who was "feeling chickenpox and flu vaccines aren 't worth it" was lying about a strongly held religious or moral belief. I think it's absolutely valid for me to point out that such an apparently judgmental post was coming from someone who is not faced with the same mandates/consequences as the OP, and whose children were not required to get those same vaccines as infants.
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#44 of 56 Old 02-17-2014, 06:06 AM
 
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I'm curious if "feeling chickenpox and flu vaccines aren 't worth it" (sic) would count as a strongly help religious or moral belief against vaccines. Does it?

 

 

​Who is qualified to cast the first stone- you? and how should your religious or morals be judged? 

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#45 of 56 Old 02-17-2014, 06:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post
 

I asked a  question about what counts as "a strong religious or moral objection" to vaccines, and in response a user posts assumptions (which actually are wrong in many places) about my and my children's medical history. And that's a contribution which two other users "like". I have my big girl pants on but I think that's a bit beyond even the debate threads. I have flagged it, but in the spirit of trying to keep this as friendly as possible I'd appreciate if the user (Taximom) would be nice enough to self edit.

 

 

PSM - I do not know if this will help or hurt….but to a degree I get where they are coming from.

 

PSM, your initial question did come across as a little passive aggressive.  I could be wrong, and if I am I apologise - but I am pretty sure you knew full well that asking if "this vaccine isn't worth it" (or whatever was said) is not a valid religious exemption.

 

Our country of origin can be relevant in these debates.  I think we are still entitled to an opinion and to express it,  but it is equally reasonable for someone to come on and say "You are not from here, you do not have to face what we have to face, you cannot fully understand."  It has happened to me on this forum and recently.  I was suggesting that universal health care might be a good idea for the states and was told that I did not live in the USA and could not grasp the implications of what I was suggesting. It was a valid point.


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#46 of 56 Old 02-17-2014, 09:09 AM
 
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Back to the idea that if some of us post "kittens are cute" in these boards that would spark a huge debate. And apparently online stalking (to some minor degree) as well. 

 

Never mind. Probably a sign I need a break. 


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#47 of 56 Old 02-17-2014, 10:09 AM
 
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Back to the idea that if some of us post "kittens are cute" in these boards that would spark a huge debate. And apparently online stalking (to some minor degree) as well. 

 

Never mind. Probably a sign I need a break. 

 

Nobody here is stalking you; if you are making such accusations, maybe you do need a break.

You posted a "question" that seemed to carry a great deal of negative judgment against mothers who are facing something you do not have to face--mandatory vaccination of their children, on a schedule that many feel is risky.

Many of us remember that you have posted that your children did not receive certain vaccines, such as hep B at birth, and that the UK (where you live) does not require that and many of the other vaccines required for US infants, including flu shots and chicken pox, which were the subject of the OP.

 

For you to post something judgmental against mothers who question shots that your children did not get is absolutely reason for comment--and heaven knows, pro-vaxers have demanded that vaccine critics provide proof of their points, so that's exactly what I did. That's not stalking; it's self-defense against those who would accuse me of making things up.

If you feel that it's perfectly fine and dandy for you to criticize mothers who are facing things you never had to, then go ahead and say so, and why you believe it to be so. But please don't change the subject via veiled accusations of stalking.  

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#48 of 56 Old 02-17-2014, 11:22 AM
 
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So you do think it's okay for kids to be barred from a public education for a parent's vaccine choices. Got it.

 

I have stated several times in this forum that I am conflicted about requiring vaccinations for public schools.


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#49 of 56 Old 02-18-2014, 12:23 PM
 
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Our pediatrician just wrote a letter stating that our son is on a special vaccine schedule which is being overseen by him. We'll be doing a couple of select vaccines when he's a little older and have been lucky to have a holistic pediatrician to back us up. For some reason a letter from an MD seems to shut people up pretty quickly. Good luck! 

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#50 of 56 Old 02-25-2014, 09:38 AM
 
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Something to think about - if you don't want the government making vax decisions for you, why would you allow the government to care for and educate you child? I didn't have to vax my kids for medical reasons. I couldn't force them to go to school. 

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#51 of 56 Old 02-25-2014, 09:47 AM
 
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Something to think about - if you don't want the government making vax decisions for you, why would you allow the government to care for and educate you child? I didn't have to vax my kids for medical reasons. I couldn't force them to go to school. 

Because maybe the government does some things well and other things poorly. shrug.gif Not everything is black and white. Criticizing facet of what the government does or mandates doesn't make you an anarchist.

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#52 of 56 Old 02-25-2014, 10:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by typebug View Post For some reason a letter from an MD seems to shut people up pretty quickly. Good luck! 

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#53 of 56 Old 02-25-2014, 04:47 PM
 
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Something to think about - if you don't want the government making vax decisions for you, why would you allow the government to care for and educate you child?

…….because they are not my children, they are the children of society and I along with others pay the cost in the end when reactions occur, I along with others pay the ultimate cost - what it does to society in the long run - I have a vested interest! 

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#54 of 56 Old 02-26-2014, 09:03 AM
 
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I have stated several times in this forum that I am conflicted about requiring vaccinations for public schools.

The issue is that in the US, anyway, children are required to go to some sort of school, and all schools, both public and private (at least in California) must use the same requirements. If vaccines are required for school, and school is required, what you're saying is that all children will be required to be vaccinated, unless they have a medical exemption (which in many states is extremely hard to get, and is often only for the vaccine to which a child has already had a life-threatening reaction).

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#55 of 56 Old 02-26-2014, 03:49 PM
 
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In my state proof of vax or a valid exemption is required even to homeschool.

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#56 of 56 Old 02-26-2014, 07:06 PM
 
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In my state proof of vax or a valid exemption is required even to homeschool.

:yeah  I do know of some who get around this a bit, but the Dept of Ed here has said they will back the schools if push comes to shove.

 

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