Do I need to vax for my child to attend school? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 56 Old 02-15-2014, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi, I'm a little uneducated in the whole vaccination debate. While I'm not against ALL vaccinations, I feel that the flu, and chicken pox vaccine are completely unneccesary and do not want my little one to have to get just ANOTHER shot, when she really doesn't need to. With that being said, will this hold my child back from attending public school? I live in PA if that helps.

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#2 of 56 Old 02-15-2014, 08:31 PM
 
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PA has a religious exemption, you write a letter stating your (personal or larger doctrinal) religious problem with vaccines and submit that instead of vax records.

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#3 of 56 Old 02-15-2014, 09:36 PM
 
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Pennsylvania exemption law for school

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/028/chapter23/s23.84.html (religious and philosophical)

 

Pennsylvania exemption law for childcare

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/028/chapter27/s27.77.html (just religious)

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#4 of 56 Old 02-15-2014, 09:42 PM
 
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No.

 

http://www.nvic.org/Vaccine-Laws/state-vaccine-requirements/pennsylvania.aspx

 

There are plenty of Amish in your state who do not vaccinate, so yes there are exemptions.

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#5 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 12:10 AM
 
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I'm curious if "feeling chickenpox and flu vaccines aren 't worth it" (sic) would count as a strongly help religious or moral belief against vaccines. Does it?
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#6 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 12:33 AM
 
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Typically, you cannot pick and choose some vaccines with public school admission. You can get a waiver in most states, against all vaccines; or you can get the required vaccinations. I don't think any states allow waivers from only certain vaccines. 

 

Some private schools don't require vaccines. Some private schools allow no waivers. It's up to them.

 

Required vaxes also depends on the age of the child. Typically, flu isn't required, only recommended. Chicken pox is usually required over 12 months old. 


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#7 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 06:42 AM
 
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Typically, you cannot pick and choose some vaccines with public school admission. You can get a waiver in most states, against all vaccines; or you can get the required vaccinations. I don't think any states allow waivers from only certain vaccines. 

 

Some private schools don't require vaccines. Some private schools allow no waivers. It's up to them.

 

Required vaxes also depends on the age of the child. Typically, flu isn't required, only recommended. Chicken pox is usually required over 12 months old. 

I think is true, hopefully a selective/delayer will weigh in.

 

Anyone can have a change of heart and refuse vaccines going forward, so I see two routes:

 

1.  get the vaccines you want, delay the ones you don't, and have your change of heart after you get the vaccines you desire.  This is probably the easiest way to go for those who are only avoiding a few.

 

2.  File your paper work with the school board, and get whatever vaccines you want.  The school will think you don't have vaccines that you do, but, meh, so what?  The only time it could possibly be an issue is in an outbreak. I think people being asked to leave school during an outbreak due to there vaccine status is extrememly uncommon.  Make sure you opt out of vaccine registries so there is no possible sharing of info (I don't know if this happnes - but why take a chance?)

 

I found this link which has some info:

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1000612/helpwith-religious-exemption-and-selective-vaccination

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#8 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 06:43 AM
 
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I'm curious if "feeling chickenpox and flu vaccines aren 't worth it" (sic) would count as a strongly help religious or moral belief against vaccines. Does it?

Oh, I doubt it.  She needs to look up proper wording that also feels right to her and use it.  


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#9 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 07:36 AM
 
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Also each state has their own mandatory requirements. IDK personally about PA. But in my state, the "recommended" is not the same as what's actually *required*


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#10 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 08:02 AM
 
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Oh, I doubt it.  She needs to look up proper wording that also feels right to her and use it.  

 

If she doesn't have a sincerely held religious belief, she shouldn't manufacture one.  "Not worth it" is not really a deeply and sincerely held spiritual belief.


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#11 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 08:22 AM
 
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Hi, I'm a little uneducated in the whole vaccination debate. While I'm not against ALL vaccinations, I feel that the flu, and chicken pox vaccine are completely unneccesary and do not want my little one to have to get just ANOTHER shot, when she really doesn't need to. With that being said, will this hold my child back from attending public school? I live in PA if that helps.

I am also in PA and on the other side, you may wish to do a bit more letter writing to you State Senate Representative http://articles.philly.com/2013-05-10/news/39144680_1_child-abuse-neglect-first-century-gospel

You should be deeply concerned about what Paul Offit is pushing for PA residents and his deep involvement with Senate Bill 20 http://aging.pasenategop.com/files/2013/06/offit.pdf this will directly effect you and many other parents here in PA.

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If she doesn't have a sincerely held religious belief, she shouldn't manufacture one.  "Not worth it" is not really a deeply and sincerely held spiritual belief.

Since the decision is not your to make lets remember it's legal and she does have every legal right to it!

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#12 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 08:30 AM
 
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Filing an exemption to get out of having any requirement at all and then selectively vaxing can get you in a whole heap of trouble.  If you choose to do this, for sure opt out of the PA registry.  To be extra sure, you may consider crossing the border to another state to get the vaxes.  

 

Disclaimer:  We no longer vax at all.  Ds2 is totally vax-free.

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#13 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 08:30 AM
 
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If she doesn't have a sincerely held religious belief, she shouldn't manufacture one.  "Not worth it" is not really a deeply and sincerely held spiritual belief.

Oh, I think *she* can decide for herself what to do based on her moral code.


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#14 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 08:41 AM
 
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Quote:
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If she doesn't have a sincerely held religious belief, she shouldn't manufacture one.  "Not worth it" is not really a deeply and sincerely held spiritual belief.

Oh, I think *she* can decide for herself what to do based on her moral code.

 

This. We are not the moral police here.

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#15 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 08:41 AM
 
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Interesting.  In the doctor thread, vaccine critics were arguing that even though it was legal, it was not ethical for a doctor to refuse to see non-vaccinating families.  Now vaccine critics are sticking to the letter of the law and ignoring possible ethical grey areas.  I actually don't believe it should be legal to lie about a deeply held religious belief.


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#16 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 08:45 AM
 
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Interesting.  In the doctor thread, vaccine critics were arguing that even though it was legal, it was not ethical for a doctor to refuse to see non-vaccinating families.  Now vaccine critics are sticking to the letter of the law and ignoring possible ethical grey areas.  I actually don't believe it should be legal to lie about a deeply held religious belief.

How would you do it? I know of no "religious" person that has their beliefs set in stone, even the Pope seems to be evolving.

 

Are you morally above the rest of us that you could device a way to do this?

 

How would someone go about dissecting your moral beliefs?

 

According to what you have written, you also don't follow the letter of the law, you delay that in it self can alter in certain states their criteria.

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#17 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 08:49 AM
 
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I do follow the letter of the law:  all delays were either before school age or vaccines that were not required for school.


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#18 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 08:50 AM
 
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And the OP has stated that she doesn't feel the vaccines are "worth it".  That's not religion.  I guess there's no way for the law to know for sure, but it doesn't paint vaccine critics in the best light to suggest that she lie on an official document.

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#19 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 08:51 AM
 
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I do follow the letter of the law:  all delays were either before school age or vaccines that were not required for school.

And what happens if the law is unjust? There are plenty of ridiculous laws on the the books, are we so mindless that we should follow authority regardless?

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#20 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 08:53 AM
 
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Interesting.  In the doctor thread, vaccine critics were arguing that even though it was legal, it was not ethical for a doctor to refuse to see non-vaccinating families.  Now vaccine critics are sticking to the letter of the law and ignoring possible ethical grey areas.  I actually don't believe it should be legal to lie about a deeply held religious belief.

and?

 

At best you can say that people play the ethics card when it is their side and don't when it is not.  Even that is stretching it a bit, but whatever. 

 

Personally, I would be more comfortable if we started a thread on religious exemptions (oh, how I could wax over what is a religous exemption and the ethics of having to choose between homeschooling, vaccination or lying on a form (I think *few* people out and out lie…that is another waxing point)) rather than co-opt this thread where a mother is looking for advice.  I wish she had posted this on sel/delayed. 

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#21 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 08:54 AM
 
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And the OP has stated that she doesn't feel the vaccines are "worth it".  That's not religion.  I guess there's no way for the law to know for sure, but it doesn't paint vaccine critics in the best light to suggest that she lie on an official document.

 

 

funny, many vaccine "supports" on here mention how they delay - if you really believe in them, you should not be delaying them, those in the know (CDC,etc) don't support do that yet we read it here ALL the time about it being done

 

over and over we hear how if you "delay" you are putting your child and other at risk - doesn't paint vaccine supporter in the best light!  :lol 

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funny, many vaccine "supports" on here mention how they delay - if you really believe in them, you should not be delaying them, those in the know (CDC,etc) don't support do that yet we read it here ALL the time about it being done

 

over and over we hear how if you "delay" you are putting your child and other at risk - doesn't paint vaccine supports in the best light!  :lol 

Reminds me of a few stories on voicesforvaccines - where they delayed but are advocating others don't. 

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and?

 

At best you can say that people play the ethics card when it is their side and don't when it is not.  Even that is stretching it a bit, but whatever. 

 

Personally, I would be more comfortable if we started a thread on religious exemptions (oh, how I could wax over what is a religous exemption and the ethics of having to choose between homeschooling, vaccination or lying on a form (I think *few* people out and out lie…that is another waxing point)) rather than co-opt this thread where a mother is looking for advice.  I wish she had posted this on sel/delayed. 

yes and let's pick who's religion is BEST while we are at it!

 

one can say that certain religions trump other! ah, what a can of worms to open!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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#24 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 08:59 AM
 
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Reminds me of a few stories on voicesforvaccines - where they delayed but are advocating others don't. 

Even our local rep for V4V admitting delaying vaccines, of course now she sees the error of her ways (nevermind her child did not contract any of the life-threatening diseases they are suppose to prevent). But of course with her next baby she will do them ALL on schedule like a good mommy.

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#25 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 09:03 AM
 
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 (nevermind her child did not contract any of the life-threatening diseases they are suppose to prevent).

OH, boy!  It is that herd immunity thing at work! NOT!

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#26 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 09:12 AM
 
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And OP, flu shots are not required for school attendance in Pennsylvania, so your only concern is the chickenpox.  You could have titers drawn to see if your child is already immune.

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/028/chapter23/s23.83.html


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#27 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 09:18 AM
 
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Interesting.  In the doctor thread, vaccine critics were arguing that even though it was legal, it was not ethical for a doctor to refuse to see non-vaccinating families.  Now vaccine critics are sticking to the letter of the law and ignoring possible ethical grey areas.  I actually don't believe it should be legal to lie about a deeply held religious belief.


From the link posted by applejuice: 


Pennsylvania

 

State Vaccine Requirements

 

Posted Date: November 27, 2012


Quick Fact: Children need not be immunized if the parent, guardian or emancipated child objects in writing to the immunization on religious grounds or on the basis of a strong moral or ethical conviction similar to a religious belief.

 

If the OP feels that the possible benefits of flu and chickenpox vaccines are not worth the risk they'd pose to her child, isn't that a strong moral or ethical conviction similar to a religious belief?  How on earth would that be considered a lie?

 

What are the ethical ramifications of a for-profit industry recommending an invasive medical procedure that some people feel are not worth the risk?

As long as you are bringing up the issue of lying, at what point might you consider it acceptable to lie to avoid having your child harmed by an invasive medical procedure whose mandate was brought about by lies?

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#28 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 09:23 AM
 
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I'm curious if "feeling chickenpox and flu vaccines aren 't worth it" (sic) would count as a strongly help religious or moral belief against vaccines. Does it?

 

(Posted by someone who did not receive flu shots while pregnant, and whose children did not receive chicken pox vaccine, hep B, or flu vaccines at the ages currently recommended by the CDC.)

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#29 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 10:07 AM
 
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(Posted by someone who did not receive flu shots while pregnant, and whose children did not receive chicken pox vaccine, hep B, or flu vaccines at the ages currently recommended by the CDC.)

and it should be noted for the OP - this poster that Taximom5 quoted ( prosciencemum) is in the UK, not here and dealing with these US issues

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#30 of 56 Old 02-16-2014, 10:08 AM
 
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Chickabiddy, are you seriously and with a straight face accusing the OP of contemplating lying about a religious exemption?? duh.gif

She may not have worded it to your satisfaction. But this is an MDC thread, not the exemption form itself. PA law is pretty clear that she doesn't have to belong to a particular
organized group or even believe in God to file the exemption so long as her conviction is strong. And by the time somebody is researching how to file an exemption, they're pretty damn strong and sincere in their beliefs.

I'm pretty confident that she can be the judge of her own sincerity.

By the way, no God I believe in would have me submit to the ridiculousness of routine early childhood varicella vaccination. smile.gifduck.gif

"A child who is protected from all controversial ideas is as vulnerable as a child who is protected from every germ. The infection, when it comes- and it will come- may overwhelm the system, be it the immune system or the belief system." — Jane Smiley

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines.” - Marcia Angell, M.D., former NEJM Editor

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