"Vaccines are a victim of their own success" - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 110 Old 02-25-2014, 09:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 1,515
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)

"Some antivaccine sentiment stems, ironically, from success. "In developed countries, we no longer have infectious diseases for which there are vaccines, so the risk of the vaccine is perceived to be greater than the risk of the disease. But that is true because the vaccine is being used," says Stanley Plotkin, professor emeritus at the University of Pennsylvania, science advisor to vaccine manufacturer Aventis-Pasteur, and inventor of the rubella vaccine.

Polio dramatically illustrates vaccine complacency. "In the 1950s, polio affected every neighborhood. Now natural polio is far removed from most peoples' daily lives. But when a little girl in California develops side effects from polio vaccine, that hits the newspapers," says Neil Herendeen, director of pediatrics at Strong Memorial Hospital at the University of Rochester, New York. "

 

I always thought this image was powerful.  This photo of children lining up to get their polio vaccine was taken in Austin, TX in 1962 I think demonstrates this point pretty well. 

 

 

A line of people at a hospital in New York in 1947 waiting to get their smallpox vaccine. 

 

 

 

So do you agree or disagree with this statement? 

fragolina likes this.

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson 
teacozy is offline  
#2 of 110 Old 02-25-2014, 10:00 PM
 
beckybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The Shattered Paradigm
Posts: 1,924
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)

Why should we vaccinate for polio now, today, 2014? Because there is a risk to each individual, or because people don't want polio to return? The answer: So polio won't return. Take the vaccine as a preventative for the masses, not the individual. This reasoning is more about taking personal risks to protect the herd. Taking risks--however small you think they are--for the greater good. Taking risks for others, and not necessarily because of the imminent threat of the disease to the individual. Are we supposed to wait until the entire world is rid of polio before we retire this vaccine, or are we just expected to vaccinate forever, with no end in sight? 

 

Some people do not want to take risks for the theoretical protection of the herd. In a "free" country, one should be able to choose what he/she puts into his/her  own body!


 
 
 "Medical propaganda ops are, in the long run, the most dangerous. They appear to be neutral. They wave no political banners. They claim to be science. For these reasons, they can accomplish the goals of overt fascism without arousing suspicion.” — Jon Rappoport
 
 
 
beckybird is online now  
#3 of 110 Old 02-25-2014, 10:17 PM
 
ma2two's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)

Those photos remind me of the lines for the H1N1 vaccine in 2009.

  • Image 1 of 2

  •  

Previous

http://www.thestar.com/life/health_wellness/news_research/2009/10/30/temporary_h1n1_vaccine_shortage_looms.html

ma2two is offline  
#4 of 110 Old 02-25-2014, 11:55 PM
 
prosciencemum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,776
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
I assume the polio vaccine recommendation will be changed once polio is wiped out worldwide. Right now it's rare in many locations, but technically only a plane ride away.

It's not one which avoiding makes me concerned for population immunity honestly. Just the possible consequences of the disease are so horrible I think it's worth the vaccine on an individual basis.
fragolina likes this.

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

prosciencemum is online now  
#5 of 110 Old 02-26-2014, 02:38 AM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,069
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
I'm familiar with the quote. Offit says it so often that it belongs on a Bingo card.

Where to begin? References to polio in order to make a case for vaccine compliance remind me of pro-lifers focusing ONLY on late-term abortions and pro-choicers focusing ONLY on rape and incest. In any of these situations, we're seeing an appeal to pity, to hard cases. As Barbara Low Fisher correctly stated, no case for vaccine-related fear-mongering is complete without a reference to polio.

That's why I'm a little weary of the generalizations. Offit refers to "vaccines," as in *all* vaccines, as if they were one in the same. But lining up for a polio vaccine in the 1950s, (something my family and I would have done, by the way), is not the same as lining up for a flu shot at CVS. Rotavirus never put a healthy, First World child with access to clean water into an iron lung. There's never been a neighborhood quarantine for a Hep B outbreak among children born to Hep B-negative mothers. There are exceedingly rare deaths from chicken pox, but you won't see it paralyze hoards of children.

I would be really curious to see data on how many exempting parents decline the polio vaccine. My guess is that at least in the U.S., compliance is pretty high on it, maybe with the exception of all-or-nothing states in which you either have to refuse or accept all vaccines for school admission. My understanding is that IPV isn't a very reactive vaccine, and I personally have no problem getting it for my children. But I am sick of the disease being used as THE tool to emotionally manipulate parents into full-scale vaccine compliance.

In God we trust; all others must show data. selectivevax.gifsurf.gifteapot2.GIFintactivist.gif
Turquesa is offline  
#6 of 110 Old 02-26-2014, 05:09 AM
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,369
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

I assume the polio vaccine recommendation will be changed once polio is wiped out worldwide. Right now it's rare in many locations, but technically only a plane ride away.

It's not one which avoiding makes me concerned for population immunity honestly. Just the possible consequences of the disease are so horrible I think it's worth the vaccine on an individual basis.

back so soon? 

 

enterovirus 68 vaccine soon too?

applejuice likes this.

 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
#7 of 110 Old 02-26-2014, 05:18 AM
 
kathymuggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,121
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)

In so far as the statement is true (lots of grey zone there)….isn't that how it should be?

 

The vaccine (a pharmaceutical) was created to address a need - if the need is no longer there, the pharmaceutical is no longer used.  

 

I will say that I do not find arguments around why we should still use vaccines for diseases that we are incredibly unlikely to get compelling.  If I get on a plane to an area where diphtheria is prevalent, I will get the vaccine or not get on the plane (this does not hold true for all diseases, I would not think twice about going  to an area where rubella was endemic, for example). I do not worry about diseases coming here either.  If there really does seem to be a upward non-blip type spike in certain diseases, I may re-assess.  

 

The goal should be disease reduction…not "take your vaccine"


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

kathymuggle is online now  
#8 of 110 Old 02-26-2014, 05:47 AM
 
rachelsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 1,583
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)

I would say that vaccines aren't "victims" of anything.  The vaccine manufacturers probably feel a little like "victims of their own success", but I have a hard time feeling sorry for the loss of revenue they see from the minority who choose not to vaccinate, because I really don't consider their revenues to be as important as the the right to make individualised healthcare decisions.  And, as previous posters have addressed, the attitude that everybody should get all the vaccines is my biggest issue with the quote.  Using the polio situation from the 1950s to try to convince people to get their chickenpox vaccine now is doing a lot more to alienate consumers than the "success" of the vaccines is.

rachelsmama is offline  
#9 of 110 Old 02-26-2014, 06:31 AM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,069
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Good point, Kathymuggle. The gray area is another reason that Offit's generalization is unfair. I'd hardly call the current vaccines for pertussis, mumps, shingles, or influenza a "success."

In God we trust; all others must show data. selectivevax.gifsurf.gifteapot2.GIFintactivist.gif
Turquesa is offline  
#10 of 110 Old 02-26-2014, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 1,515
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
 

In so far as the statement is true (lots of grey zone there)….isn't that how it should be?

 

The vaccine (a pharmaceutical) was created to address a need - if the need is no longer there, the pharmaceutical is no longer used.  

 

Right. Which is why we don't vaccinate for smallpox or typhoid fever or cholera etc in the US. 

 

I will say that I do not find arguments around why we should still use vaccines for diseases that we are incredibly unlikely to get compelling.  If I get on a plane to an area where diphtheria is prevalent, I will get the vaccine or not get on the plane (this does not hold true for all diseases, I would not think twice about going  to an area where rubella was endemic, for example). I do not worry about diseases coming here either.  If there really does seem to be a upward non-blip type spike in certain diseases, I may re-assess.  

 

But diseases are just a plane ride away.  You can get to virtually any country in the world within 24 hours. Many diseases are contagious for days and days before there are any symptoms.  See the fairly recent example of the unvaccinated woman in Australia who died from diphtheria after contacting it from her friend who had just traveled overseas.  Her friend had no idea she had it. If most people around her had not been immune it could have spread like wildfire.   Another recent example is the unvaccinated Berkley student who exposed thousands of people to measles before showing any symptoms after traveling abroad.   Again, herd immunity kept it from spreading like wildfire. 

 

The goal should be disease reduction…not "take your vaccine"

 

Vaccines are the best way to reduce the incidence of VPDs. 

fragolina likes this.

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson 
teacozy is offline  
#11 of 110 Old 02-26-2014, 10:22 AM
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,369
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
But diseases are just a plane ride away.

 

so is ebola, what are you doing about it?


 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
#12 of 110 Old 02-26-2014, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 1,515
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post
 

 

so is ebola, what are you doing about it?

 

Ebola outbreaks occur primarily in remote villages in Central and West Africa.  People that live in remote villages are not likely to get on airplanes and travel to New York for work or vacation. 

 

The same cannot be said for places where measles, mumps, polio, rubella, and diphtheria still occur. 

fragolina likes this.

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson 
teacozy is offline  
#13 of 110 Old 02-26-2014, 11:13 AM
 
ma2two's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 

 

Ebola outbreaks occur primarily in remote villages in Central and West Africa.  People that live in remote villages are not likely to get on airplanes and travel to New York for work or vacation. 

 

What about aid workers and missionaries?

serenbat and BeckyBird like this.
ma2two is offline  
#14 of 110 Old 02-26-2014, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 1,515
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ma2two View Post
 

 

What about aid workers and missionaries?

 

Ebola outbreaks are extremely rare and sporadic  and mostly occur in remote villages.  The symptoms are pretty hard to miss.  A person found to have ebola in the US would be immediately quarantined as would people they came into contact with.  It is spread through bodily fluids, so not as easily transmissible as other VPDs. 

 

"Transmission

  • Ebola haemorrhagic fever is spread person-to-person through direct contact with the bodily fluids (e.g., blood, secretions, semen, or vaginal fluid) of an infected person.
  • It can also be transmitted from animals to humans by handling infected chimpanzees, gorillas, monkey, forest antelope, pigs, porcupines, duikers or fruit bats (alive or dead)." 

http://travel.gc.ca/travelling/health-safety/diseases/ebola-haemorrhagic-fever


“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson 
teacozy is offline  
#15 of 110 Old 02-26-2014, 11:31 AM
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,369
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 

 

Ebola outbreaks occur primarily in remote villages in Central and West Africa.  People that live in remote villages are not likely to get on airplanes and travel to New York for work or vacation. 

 

The same cannot be said for places where measles, mumps, polio, rubella, and diphtheria still occur. WRONG!

nono.gif no, you missed the point but ma2two didn't!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ma2two View Post
 

 

What about aid workers and missionaries?

 

 

aid workers and missionaries are primarily from 1st world nations, and a plane ride away as well, not to mention there are people that do travel from remote villages in Africa to right here in the US and I know one who comes to my city as well

BeckyBird likes this.

 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
#16 of 110 Old 02-26-2014, 11:34 AM
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,369
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 

 

Ebola outbreaks are extremely sparse rare and sprradic  and mostly occur in remote villages.  The symptoms are pretty hard to miss.  A person found to have ebola in the US would be immediately quarantined as would people they came into contact with.  It is spread through bodily fluids, so not as easily transmissible as other VPDs. 

 

"Transmission

  • Ebola haemorrhagic fever is spread person-to-person through direct contact with the bodily fluids (e.g., blood, secretions, semen, or vaginal fluid) of an infected person.
  • It can also be transmitted from animals to humans by handling infected chimpanzees, gorillas, monkey, forest antelope, pigs, porcupines, duikers or fruit bats (alive or dead)." 

http://travel.gc.ca/travelling/health-safety/diseases/ebola-haemorrhagic-fever

really, you want to go into each VPD that is also spread via body fluids?

 

 let's not forget VPD and others that have NO vaccine can be spread with body fluids  

BeckyBird likes this.

 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
#17 of 110 Old 02-26-2014, 11:39 AM
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,369
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
But diseases are just a plane ride away.

 

 

it's been pointed out numerous times that vaccines are not 100%, you can die from non-VPD and no matter how much you want the heard vaccinated you still have VPD that spread

 

shoot up, shoot your child up and bubble up but don't expect everyone everyplace to have to do the same and expect even if they did it would work 100% of the time

BeckyBird likes this.

 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
#18 of 110 Old 02-26-2014, 11:42 AM
 
ma2two's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 

A person found to have ebola in the US would be immediately quarantined as would people they came into contact with.  It is spread through bodily fluids, so not as easily transmissible as other VPDs.

 

But people with ebola hemorrhage. So it's quite likely those sitting next to them on a plane would get blood on them. I think that's reason enough to require an ebola vaccine for all U.S. school children, if one were made.

BeckyBird likes this.
ma2two is offline  
#19 of 110 Old 02-26-2014, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 1,515
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ma2two View Post
 

 

But people with ebola hemmohrage. So it's quite likely those sitting next to them on a plane would get blood on them. I think that's reason enough to require an ebola vaccine for all U.S. school children, if one were made.

 

First post that's made me laugh out loud in a while, thanks :) 

 

A person who is at that stage of ebola can be literally bleeding out of their nose, ears, eyes, mouth and rectum.  Do you really think that person would be sitting on a plane?!   

fragolina likes this.

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson 
teacozy is offline  
#20 of 110 Old 02-26-2014, 12:02 PM
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,369
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 

 

First post that's made me laugh out loud in a while, thanks :) 

 

 

it's make me laugh out loud that you think that VPD really only apply to the US :laugh

 

There are many things here we simply do not vac for, some are vacced in other countries, some not,  and they too are only a plane ride away (according to you), so what are you doing about that?

 

TB, strains of meningitis, etc and all those non-VPD nasties!

BeckyBird likes this.

 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
#21 of 110 Old 02-26-2014, 12:50 PM
 
kathymuggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,121
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)

Getting back to polio….
 
I am not afraid of getting Polio based on the prevalence rates of Polio….and that isn't about to change unless the rates significantly change.
 
For kicks, I looked up the stats on Polio.  Assuming all things are equal  (which they most assuredly are not)  there 406 cases of polio reported in the world last year.  I will take my chances that I am not one of the 406, given our world population of approximately 7 200 000 000.
 
 
There is a reasonable argument for continuing to vaccinate for Polio, IMHO (around herd immunity and goals of eradication*) but "plane ride away" isn't it.  It is a fear-mongering term that is often not grounded in statistics.
 
 
________
 
As an aside, the countries that have not eliminated polio are countries that are quite volatile. We will always have volatile countries.   Is eradication a reasonable goal?  And how many kids have to continue to undergo vaccine risks and for how much longer for this goal?

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

kathymuggle is online now  
#22 of 110 Old 02-26-2014, 12:52 PM
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,369
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
But diseases are just a plane ride away.

 

you and the US State Department are not even on the same page!

 

http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/destinations/traveler/none/united-states

 

There are no vaccination requirements for visitors to the United States.

 

 

 

What about that plane ride, or a bus ride with that newly/freshly vacced US military personal who just had their Anthrax or (something else) vac and has to take emergency leave to go to their parents funeral - afraid of them too, that is IF YOU KNOW about it? Who has had what and is sitting next to you? http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/03/17/father-military-smallpox-vaccination-sends-toddler-to-hospital/

and sex too - http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/06/health/research/06risk.html?_r=3&ref=science&

BeckyBird likes this.

 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
#23 of 110 Old 02-26-2014, 01:38 PM
 
Taximom5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,197
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

I assume the polio vaccine recommendation will be changed once polio is wiped out worldwide. Right now it's rare in many locations, but technically only a plane ride away.

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
But diseases are just a plane ride away.

 

 

This mantra is repeated so often, by so many, that I think a lot of people don't stop to wonder if it's actually accurate.

 

It's not.


Because of plane rides, and, as Serenbat pointed out, anybody carrying any germs from anywhere could have just gotten off a plane from anywhere, used the public restrooms, sat on buses, taxis, and trains, gone to the grocery store, or the zoo, a hotel, a swimming pool, Disneyland, ANYWHERE.

 

http://www.commerce.gov/blog/2013/06/13/international-travelers-united-states-post-record-numbers-visits-and-spending

"...in 2012, a record 67.0 million international visitors came to the United States, an increase of 4.3 million from the year before."

 

For heaven's sake, do the math.  67 million people, of unknown vaccination status, visiting the US, spreading germs everywhere they go.


Even if vaccination resulted in herd immunity (which it doesn't, as evidenced by the pertussis vaccine failure), you're not going to see herd immunity with 67 million people who didn't have those vaccines.

serenbat and BeckyBird like this.
Taximom5 is online now  
#24 of 110 Old 02-26-2014, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 1,515
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post
 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
But diseases are just a plane ride away.

 

 

This mantra is repeated so often, by so many, that I think a lot of people don't stop to wonder if it's actually accurate.

 

It's not.

 

Interesting.  The data does not support that conclusion.  

 

For instance:  "During January 1–August 24, 2013, a total of 159 cases were reported to CDC from 16 states and New York City (Figure 2). Among the 159 cases, 157 (99%) were import-associated, and two had an unknown source. Forty-two (26%) importations (23 returning U.S residents and 19 visitors to the United States) from 18 countries were reported, and 21 (50%) of the importations were from the WHO European Region. "  http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6236a2.htm

 

Within just a few months in 2011 "Take for instance the recent measles outbreaks we have witnessed in the past few months in places like Massachusetts, New Mexico, Minnesota and Utah, to name just a few.  In Boston, one case began in February with an unvaccinated French consulate worker.  And this week, Boston saw five new cases.  In New Mexico, an unvaccinated resident  returning from a trip to Europe, exposed thousands of other travelers in VA, MD, Colorado, DC and New Mexico.   In Minnesota, there have been 23 confirmed cases of measles, twenty of which were linked to a case that was acquired by an unvaccinated child who had traveled to Kenya.  Five cases in Utah were linked to a family’s travels to Poland. " 

 

Of course we are going to see this happen a lot more often with measles than with polio, due to how much more prevalent it is.  

 

So yes, diseases and disease outbreaks are "just a plane ride away."

 

If you guys want to continue to discuss the phrase "just a plane ride away" maybe start a different thread?  This is OT. 


“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson 
teacozy is offline  
#25 of 110 Old 02-26-2014, 04:38 PM
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,369
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
So yes, diseases and disease outbreaks are "just a plane ride away." - there you go AGAIN! :laugh
 
 
If you guys want to continue to discuss the phrase "just a plane ride away" maybe start a different thread?  This is OT.  You are the one that brought it up in an attempt to make something out of it, you are repeating it too, clearly the US State Dept doesn't agree. :laugh

  

:bgbounce you and the US State Department are not even on the same page!

 

http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/destinations/traveler/none/united-states

 

There are no vaccination requirements for visitors to the United States. 

applejuice likes this.

 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
#26 of 110 Old 02-26-2014, 05:13 PM
 
Taximom5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,197
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 

 

For heaven's sake, teacozy, they didn't actually prove the sources of infection!  They just found possible sources that correlated with the time of likely exposure.

Please try to remember:  correlation does not necessarily mean causation....

applejuice likes this.
Taximom5 is online now  
#27 of 110 Old 02-26-2014, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 1,515
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post
 

 

For heaven's sake, teacozy, they didn't actually prove the sources of infection!  They just found possible sources that correlated with the time of likely exposure.

Please try to remember:  correlation does not necessarily mean causation....

 

Wrong.  Only two had an unknown source. 


“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson 
teacozy is offline  
#28 of 110 Old 02-26-2014, 05:33 PM
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,369
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 

 

 Only two had an unknown source. 

and those two - are you now saying  correlation  mean causation:lol still doesn't mean much since the US State Dept doesn't require vaccines to enter! 


 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
#29 of 110 Old 02-26-2014, 08:29 PM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,069
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
The course that this thread is taking reminds me of a really interesting one that I got going some years ago.

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1223730/if-polio-is-only-a-plane-ride-away

And totally off-topic, but I can't believe how long I've been on MDC and "known" some of you. We're going to grow old and wrinkled together behind our monitors.

In God we trust; all others must show data. selectivevax.gifsurf.gifteapot2.GIFintactivist.gif
Turquesa is offline  
#30 of 110 Old 02-26-2014, 08:55 PM
 
ma2two's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)

How can vaccines be "victims?" People can be victims, but not vaccines. Shouldn't we be concerned about what's best for people? Are more people suffering because fewer people are vaccinating? I don't see evidence of that. It's come to the point that vaccines are all that matter, simply because they are, the all important VACCINES.

ma2two is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off