Child who gets hives with every illness - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 16 Old 03-20-2014, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I've been delaying vaccines after my almost 6 year old had a bad reaction to his 2 month (5 in 1) shots. "prolonged excessive screaming" I think is what the package classified it as (it was over 2 hours of unrecognizable screaming that I couldn't stop)

I did a lot of work health wise with him, because he quickly developed digestive issues and eczema after, and now is doing really well.

The one exception is that he gets hives with every.single.illness he gets - mild or severe, he gets hives. I'm able to help the itching with high doses of vitamin C, and his throat/mouth/airway has never been affected BUT he is only ever sick with maybe one virus/bacteria at a time. 

 

I am well researched, have read every piece of literature I could since before he was born and I personally would like to continue with some vaccines at this point. So I would like to give him his MMR and continue with the IPV, then do the DT at age 7. 

My concern is, if he gets hives from one pathogen (well of course I have no way of knowing if it's just one) what will happen when I load him with 3+ at a time? MMR is the only one that can't be separated….

 

Does anyone have experience with a child/adult who gets illness related hives and how they did with vaccines? 

 

I will chat with his paediatrician about it of course, she has supported our delay and knows about the hives, but I haven't asked that specific question yet. I'm worried that loading him so much could cause a more severe allergic reaction, is that possible?

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#2 of 16 Old 03-22-2014, 06:59 PM
 
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I don't have much time so what I say may not sound the nicest, but I'm sharing the questions & my thoughts that come up when reading your post.  I don't need any of the answers for myself.  HOwever, they are questions that I think I'd be asking myself if I were in your shoes.

 

You say he's doing really well, but still has this issue.  Do you think it *is* an issue or just a nuisance?

 

I have one child who reacts to more than he doesn't (as in food - he eats about 5 things right now).  At this point, I can not see any reason to ever give him a vaccination.  Even if I am able to get his body healed in some capacity, I will go to any & all lengths to avoid giving him a vaccination.  So, considering that's my POV, I do not think you should give them to your child under these circumstances.

 

You said you've read everything.  I'm wondering what you mean.  On healing a person? On how diet effects a person's immune system? On our microbiota & what it should be? On what the government has to say about vaccinations? On what?

 

Why those vax's? & why at those ages?

 

Your child is having an inappropriate immune response when he gets an illness.  Vaccination is made to elicit an immune response.  Can you be sure that the immune response that is generated will be the one you want?  Can anyone?

 

Best wishes,

Sus


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#3 of 16 Old 03-23-2014, 12:35 AM
 
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The contrary view is that if your concerned he'll over react to the vaccines what do you think would happen if he got exposed to the disease.

However this to me sounds like a genuine concern about immune system function you should have with your child's doctor rather than on an Internet forum. She/he will know which allergic reactions counter indicate vaccination.

All the best and hopefully he'll grow out of this.
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#4 of 16 Old 03-23-2014, 05:28 AM
 
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The contrary view is that if your concerned he'll over react to the vaccines what do you think would happen if he got exposed to the disease.

Adverse reactions to vaccines are entirely different from inability to recover from disease. Why on earth would you assume they're the same thing?

You've been told over and over again that people who have had severe adverse reactions to vaccines had no problems with diseases they've been exposed to--even when those diseases were the same ones that the vaccines were supposed to protect them from.

It's not the antigens in the vaccine that cause the adverse reactions all by themselves. You know that. You've also been shown science that indicate that vaccine ingredients can cause or trigger autoimmune and inflammatory reactions, as well as allergic reactions. Vaccine adjuvants are actually meant to cause inflammatory reactions. Unfortunately, not every immune system reacts exactly the same way to vaccines. Some don't mount the expected response at all (as in, 5% don't produce antibodies, for example, with the MMR), while some clearly overreact, with vaccine-induced seizures, encephalopathy, and autoimmune activity (and the MMR doesn't even contain an adjuvant).

So please stop trying to convince us that those of us who have had adverse reactions to vaccine would do even worse with exposure to disease. You haven't provided a shred of evidence indicating that this is even a possibility, and, unlike you, those of us who have lived it know that it's total crap. We've sailed through diseases like measles, mumps, chicken pox, pertussis, influenza, and H1N1--but had severe, even life-threatening reactions to vaccines.

You need to acknowledge that.
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#5 of 16 Old 03-23-2014, 05:33 AM
 
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OP, I'm wondering if it's possible that your child might have a sub-clinical allergy (to food or to something environmental), that might be exacerbated when he's fighting an illness?
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#6 of 16 Old 03-23-2014, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you for your responses, it's many of the thoughts and questions I run through my mind daily. I've been reading every piece of literature I can since before he was born and I was comfortable with a selective and delayed course until all of this happened (both pro-vaccine and not)  Of course, the communication between the Ped and myself has been ongoing.

 

Our next step is allergy testing for sure. We've had comprehensive stool analysis done and his gut is pretty good shape, there wasn't much I needed to do there (meaning all the work I had done on his gut as an infant/toddler showed it worked well, microbiota was in good balance, SCFA etc etc.) We are still gluten/dairy free anyway, whole foods, organic etc. etc. I have a background in holistic health, so I'm well versed on digestion, how diet affects health, proper balance of nutrients, detoxification etc etc.

 

The reasons for the IPV and DT (at age 7, which is when you can get it here) are because they are the only ones I can get removed from a combo so I don't have to give him so much at once. Plus even thought he likely won't encounter polio here, we will be traveling many places in the world as a family in the future (meaning possible 3rd world destinations). Diptheria again for travel reasons, Tetanus is a thought for me because we are on a farm regularly and he is not responsible with wound care, I often find cuts etc. that he's had an not told me about. The MMR I waiver on my reasons, so it can certainly wait. 

 

He has had chicken pox, and he was covered from head to toe, but the hives from the virus were worse than the pox. I'm not sure that giving him the vaccine would have been the better choice, along with the immune reaction & hives, there would be the other chemicals in the vaccine that his body would have had to deal with. Of course, I will never know since now I don't need to give it to him.

He doesn't get sick often, his immune system is pretty good other than the hives. He recovers within a couple of days of catching something and doesn't catch everything going around. He seems to have typical fever or non-fever reactions to typical illnesses, just the hives. 

 

I appreciate there will be passionate responses on either side - my decision will not be based on a internet forum, but I like to generate a discussion in case there is something I haven't thought about or in case someone has come across this situation before. 

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#7 of 16 Old 03-23-2014, 08:03 AM
 
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I would be very cautious about further vaccines, especially tetanus (DT). There is some information in the scientific literature (see below)  of delayed urticaria (hives) following the tetanus toxoid. Before choosing to vaccinate, I would recommend you read the manufacturer's product inserts for the particular vaccines to see contraindications and if urticaria have been reported. Your DS clearly has some immune dysfunction going on. http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/package_inserts.htm. Just looking at the DT insert, the manufacturer notes:

 

Quote:
A history of systemic allergic or neurologic reactions following a previous dose of DT is an absolute contraindication for further use.2 

and

 

Quote:
ADVERSE REACTIONS 
BODY SYSTEM AS A WHOLE 
Adverse reactions may be local and include redness, warmth, edema, induration, with or without tenderness, as well as 
urticaria, and rash.

 

 

Dittmann, S. Atypische Verlàufe nach Schutzimpfungen. Johan Ambrosius Barth Leipzig, 1981; 156 

Edsall. G.; Specific prophylaxis of tetanus. JAMA, 1959; 171 :417-27

Stalikamp, B.; Hating, A.; lung, L.C.; Dtsch med Wschr, 1974; 99:2579

Steigleder, G.-K,; Chronische Urticaria nach aktlver Schutzimpfung gegen Tetanus. Berufsdermatosen, 1958; 6/137

Hollander and Wortmann In: Herrlich; Handbuch der Schutzimpfungen, Springer 1965:425

Fabry Jr., H.; Berufsgebundenes urtlcarielles Exanthem nach Aluminiumhydroxyd-Formol-Adsorbat-lmpfstoff (Tetanol). Berufsdermatosen, 1955; 3/226

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#8 of 16 Old 03-23-2014, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
 
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good idea - I need to read the inserts again. Thanks for the reminder.

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#9 of 16 Old 03-24-2014, 09:53 AM
 
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I second the look into allergies, but not only allergies, sensitivities as well and it's my understanding that those don't show up on standard allergy testing and you might be better suited to seek out a Naturopath for that. DD was vaxxed through 5mos (we delayed the 4mo round bc of a cold) and had pretty severe reactions - the screaming (constant for several days and continued intermittently for upwards of 2wks each round), and almost immediately following her first vaccines she began her battle with hives and gradual foot sensitivities/allergies along with other bowel issues.  Her original ped denied the allergy connection thus I took her to an ND - at 9 mos Dairy sensitivity and oat allergy (slow to start up, about 5 hrs from ingestion, but progressive full body hives and swelling).  Re-tested at 22mos, both dairy and oats still an issue, also added gluten and soy.  So we essentially follow a paleo diet because that's the easiest way for me to prepare food without the offending groups.  She's on a probiotic and I know I need to do more to heal her gut, but I unfortunately have a FIL who watches her for us and doesn't seem to care about her restrictions much and that's when I notice her rash flare up, but now that you mention coinciding with illness, we've all just gotten over a round of what seemed to be bronchitis and she's pretty heavily "hived" on her back and chest right now, and some spots on her shoulders as well and I attributed it to FIL feeding her things that he shouldn't but I'll have to watch and see if the next time a cold comes around if the hives flare up more at that time.  I don't vax her at this point, don't plan to in the future because her reactions were just too much that I wouldn't want to risk damaging all the healing that we have done.  I've found great support from our ND and she even said that vaxxing would be a risk but if I chose that route she would support us with detoxing and such between jabs, but that's not even a thought for me.  Other than the rash battle, she's the healthiest one in the house always kicking colds long before DH or I.

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#10 of 16 Old 04-18-2014, 12:46 PM
 
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This is a longshot, but are the hives connected to a fever? Or, perhaps, getting warm under blankets as he rests when he doesnt feel well?

My dh got bit by a bunch of either fire ants or chiggers (he was in training, was very uncomfortable anyway, and didn't notice being bitten. He had at least 500 bites on one leg. More actually, we just stopped counting there.) For several years afterwards, anytime he got sweaty, he would break out in hives all over. It hasn't happened for 5 years now, so, apparently, his body finally finished working through it.

Ftr...he also had a bazillion vaccines in that time, so I guess that could be what caused the hives. But, we felt they were from the bites because at first he would only get them on his leg, and then the reactions worsened each time until they were full body. It got kind of scary, but we never managed to have him examined because by the time we got to the doctor, they were always gone. Full duration was usually 2-3 hours per episode.
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#11 of 16 Old 04-18-2014, 12:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

The contrary view is that if your concerned he'll over react to the vaccines what do you think would happen if he got exposed to the disease.

 

But it is very unlikely he will be - chickenpox and flu aside.  CDC says so.

 

How old is he?  There is little harm in waiting and seeing how this allergy plays out, except for the remote chance he will get one of the VADs.

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#12 of 16 Old 04-18-2014, 01:56 PM
 
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Definitely talk to your doctor about it. My child who got hives from 1 vaccination did totally fine with every other one he's had. He also didn't have any problem at all, no hives, no fever, no anything after any of the live vaxes. Seems to be something specific in one particular vaccine he reacted to. If you have a good pediatrician and allergist, they should be able to help you figure out what's best to do. 

 

There are lots of things that can cause hives for those prone to them--pressure, chemicals like chlorine, illness, heat, cold, sun; in addition to allergic reactions. http://www.acaai.org/allergist/allergies/Types/skin-allergies/hives/Pages/default.aspx

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#13 of 16 Old 04-19-2014, 11:23 AM
 
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Definitely talk to your doctor about it. My child who got hives from 1 vaccination did totally fine with every other one he's had. He also didn't have any problem at all, no hives, no fever, no anything after any of the live vaxes. Seems to be something specific in one particular vaccine he reacted to. If you have a good pediatrician and allergist, they should be able to help you figure out what's best to do. 

There are lots of things that can cause hives for those prone to them--pressure, chemicals like chlorine, illness, heat, cold, sun; in addition to allergic reactions. http://www.acaai.org/allergist/allergies/Types/skin-allergies/hives/Pages/default.aspx

Yes, there are lots of things that can cause hives & an allergic reaction. Unlike many that you listed, you can not try a vax & then remove it to see if it was the culprit.

Sus
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#14 of 16 Old 04-19-2014, 11:56 AM
 
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Does anyone have experience with a child/adult who gets illness related hives and how they did with vaccines? 

 

To answer your question....

My husband gets/got illness related hives. When he was younger it was much, much worse (the hives+swelling were worse than the illness). Now that he's older, he still gets some swelling/hives when he's sick or under a lot of stress.
The only vaccine he had problems with was the Hep B vaccine in grade 7, from what him and my MIL told me. He ended up only getting 1 of the 3 boosters. 

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#15 of 16 Old 04-19-2014, 06:49 PM
 
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Yes, there are lots of things that can cause hives & an allergic reaction. Unlike many that you listed, you can not try a vax & then remove it to see if it was the culprit.

Sus

 

Er, yes of course there are lots of things that can cause hives. I was saying that I think a good allergist and pediatrician are the most useful in determining what an allergic reaction is caused by. And someone said their child seemed to get hives with every fever, which may be a reaction to illness, but I thought I'd suggest might also be heat/sweat-related hives, which many people both vaxed and not vaxed get.  

 

The original post asked about experiences with children who get illness-related hives and how they did with vaccines. I have a child who gets illness-related hives, and he did completely fine with live vaccines, had some very mild reactions to other non-live vaccines, but got hives from HepB. Our allergist and pediatrician say no more HepB for him at least until teenager-hood, and then they say we may want to reconsider. Personally, I think the most important thing is to find doctors you trust, and we've switched doctors a few times to find one that I do trust, whose beliefs are in line with, or at least respectful of, your own. That's my advice whether you vax on schedule, selectively, delayed, or not at all.

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#16 of 16 Old 04-19-2014, 07:13 PM
 
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Litmom, did you child ever receive more than one vaccine at a time?

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