dtap in pregnancy - let's discuss for pregnant mothers - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
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#31 of 41 Old 05-05-2014, 12:12 PM
 
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I don't think the study tells us a heck of a lot.

 

The study is small and only follows people for a year - so in terms of safety, it will only catch really big issues.  Only 32 people were vaccinated during pregnancy, so if an issue rate is 1/100 (for example) it would not catch it.  It would not catch 1/50, and not necessarily even 1/32….. Follow up went to 13 months, IIRC correctly, so no long term follow up either.  It does tell us there are no massive (such as: affecting the majority)  short term issues with maternal DTaP vaccination

 

As per efficacy - I do wonder how well antigen level relate to disease protection. I have heard people say titer tests are not highly useful in terms of disease protection.   It is not an area I know much about.  

 

I don't think it tells us much either. The researchers indicate it is not conclusive. I think this study was an attempt to go from essentially zero to some evidence for safety and efficacy, but there's no one who could argue with you that this sample size is anywhere near appropriate for a comprehensive, conclusive safety study.

 

I also wonder about the issue of antigen response and titers, especially with pertussis. I know there are a few studies on that subject that I will be willing to go find, but as far as I remember they deal with relatively small case studies.

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#32 of 41 Old 05-05-2014, 12:14 PM
 
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Here are the list of those excluded from the trial, from ss834 link.  

 

The current recommendation is for women to get a tdap every pregnancy, yet the study excludes those who have ever had a tdap.  I also wonder if doctors refuse to give influenza vaccines near tdap in their practice?  i understand why the study was set up this way (reduce cofounders) but it is not the way the real world works. 

  • Receipt of tetanus toxoid, reduced diphtheria toxoid and acellular pertussis vaccine absorbed (Tdap) immunization ever.
  • Receipt of or plans to receive influenza vaccine within the 2 weeks prior to or following antepartum injection.

 

The Tdap thing might be because the researchers indicated (in one of the links already given in this thread) that they plan to study the receipt of multiple-Tdap as a separate study.

 

I can't really speculate on the reasoning for influenza. EDIT* except that they seem to want to target only Tdap at this time. Hopefully at some point they will look into both shots being administered at the same time, since this is a possibility in an ob/gyn setting.

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#33 of 41 Old 05-07-2014, 09:02 PM
 
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So here's the latest: http://consumer.healthday.com/kids-health-information-23/child-development-news-124/emb-05-03-14-3-00-pm-ct-tdap-vaccine-safe-for-mother-and-child-if-administered-during-last-trimester-of-pregnancy-i-jama-i-687490.html

These 48 women should make us feel better, right? ....................Right?

So if I have this straight. First came the universal recommendation of TDaP for all pregnant women. Then came the preliminary attempts at evidence. Spiffy. Just spiffy. This fire-ready-aim approach to medicine is getting irksome.

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#34 of 41 Old 05-07-2014, 09:06 PM
 
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....with a sample size that would not be acceptable if it were the other way around.


               "Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed, by the masses."

                ~Captain Hammer (j/k, it was Plato)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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#35 of 41 Old 05-08-2014, 04:02 AM
 
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These 48 women should make us feel better, right? ....................Right?

 

Well tested!

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#36 of 41 Old 05-08-2014, 10:52 AM
 
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Medical tests on pregnant women and infants are very difficult ethically as I'm sure you all know.

I'm also sure that if a larger sample size reveals any problems it will be pulled.

And I'm also sure many will never be convinced of the safety. I've heard people say we should check if there's any risks to children whose grandmothers had vaccines while pregnant with their mum or dad. Will be a while before that can be checked.

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#37 of 41 Old 05-08-2014, 12:13 PM
 
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Were any of these 48 women told of their experimental status and advised accordingly?

 

Did they sign anything?

 

How much of a follow up was done with these women and their babies?


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#38 of 41 Old 05-08-2014, 12:18 PM
 
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Since it would be unethical otherwise I imagine they did. You could find the JAMA article to check.

I note the media report in the op says it's a preliminary study. And it claims 15/48 women got a placebo vaccine. I wonder about the ethics of that.....

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#39 of 41 Old 05-08-2014, 12:26 PM
 
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You imagine they did? 

 

Did you ever read the book, Our Little Miracle, Louise?  

Mrs. Brown was NEVER told that of the experimental nature of the hormones and surgical procedures she endured.  

She was never informed that she was the first successful in vitro pregnancy until the end of the pregnancy.

In the book, Mrs. Brown said that she just figured that women walked around with a baby conceived this way and never said anything.

Mrs. Brown was shocked and afraid when she was told that HERS was the first successful pregnancy.

 

You do know that the results of the Dieckmann study was ignored and the Wonder Drug was used for another generation - 20 years - and never recalled.

 

Bottom Line:  Modern Medicine has a bad reputation and history with informed consent and experiments. 

 

I wonder what the placebo could have been - it is usually another vaccine or the excipients.

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#40 of 41 Old 07-06-2014, 12:38 PM
 
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We all had DTaP, we all had the boosters, and we all ****l got whooping cough." the mother told KTVU from her home. She wanted to keep the family's identity secret. "They had a low grade fever and this just seemed like another cold," she said. After repeated visits to the doctor's office, she asked for a pertussis test. "I said just swab them so we can eliminate it." The test came back positive.



I can only imagine how many persons this entire family exposed on each of their "repeated" visits to the doctor's office: in the office, enroute to the office, and on the way home, and on any errand they ran to pick up meds for the wrong diagnoses. FABULOUS!
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#41 of 41 Old 07-06-2014, 12:56 PM
 
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The children probably continued to go to school.
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