dtap in pregnancy - let's discuss for pregnant mothers - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

Reply
 
Thread Tools
#31 of 41 Old 05-05-2014, 12:12 PM
 
ss834's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 1,047
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 569 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
 

 

I don't think the study tells us a heck of a lot.

 

The study is small and only follows people for a year - so in terms of safety, it will only catch really big issues.  Only 32 people were vaccinated during pregnancy, so if an issue rate is 1/100 (for example) it would not catch it.  It would not catch 1/50, and not necessarily even 1/32….. Follow up went to 13 months, IIRC correctly, so no long term follow up either.  It does tell us there are no massive (such as: affecting the majority)  short term issues with maternal DTaP vaccination

 

As per efficacy - I do wonder how well antigen level relate to disease protection. I have heard people say titer tests are not highly useful in terms of disease protection.   It is not an area I know much about.  

 

I don't think it tells us much either. The researchers indicate it is not conclusive. I think this study was an attempt to go from essentially zero to some evidence for safety and efficacy, but there's no one who could argue with you that this sample size is anywhere near appropriate for a comprehensive, conclusive safety study.

 

I also wonder about the issue of antigen response and titers, especially with pertussis. I know there are a few studies on that subject that I will be willing to go find, but as far as I remember they deal with relatively small case studies.

ss834 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#32 of 41 Old 05-05-2014, 12:14 PM
 
ss834's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 1,047
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 569 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
 

Here are the list of those excluded from the trial, from ss834 link.  

 

The current recommendation is for women to get a tdap every pregnancy, yet the study excludes those who have ever had a tdap.  I also wonder if doctors refuse to give influenza vaccines near tdap in their practice?  i understand why the study was set up this way (reduce cofounders) but it is not the way the real world works. 

  • Receipt of tetanus toxoid, reduced diphtheria toxoid and acellular pertussis vaccine absorbed (Tdap) immunization ever.
  • Receipt of or plans to receive influenza vaccine within the 2 weeks prior to or following antepartum injection.

 

The Tdap thing might be because the researchers indicated (in one of the links already given in this thread) that they plan to study the receipt of multiple-Tdap as a separate study.

 

I can't really speculate on the reasoning for influenza. EDIT* except that they seem to want to target only Tdap at this time. Hopefully at some point they will look into both shots being administered at the same time, since this is a possibility in an ob/gyn setting.

kathymuggle and teacozy like this.
ss834 is offline  
#33 of 41 Old 05-07-2014, 09:02 PM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 5,723
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 698 Post(s)
So here's the latest: http://consumer.healthday.com/kids-health-information-23/child-development-news-124/emb-05-03-14-3-00-pm-ct-tdap-vaccine-safe-for-mother-and-child-if-administered-during-last-trimester-of-pregnancy-i-jama-i-687490.html

These 48 women should make us feel better, right? ....................Right?

So if I have this straight. First came the universal recommendation of TDaP for all pregnant women. Then came the preliminary attempts at evidence. Spiffy. Just spiffy. This fire-ready-aim approach to medicine is getting irksome.

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines.” - Marcia Angell, M.D., former NEJM Editor
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Private Parts are Private Property!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Turquesa is offline  
#34 of 41 Old 05-07-2014, 09:06 PM
 
beckybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Somewhere in a Mandelbrot Set
Posts: 2,222
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 168 Post(s)

....with a sample size that would not be acceptable if it were the other way around.


 
 
 "This is the sickest species the world has ever known."
Dr.John Bergman, speaking about the human species.
 
 
 
beckybird is offline  
#35 of 41 Old 05-08-2014, 04:02 AM
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,269
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 647 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post



These 48 women should make us feel better, right? ....................Right?

 

Well tested!

Mirzam and applejuice like this.

ANTI-GMO too! & Proud of it!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 
 pro-transparency advocate
&

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
  PROUD member of the .3% club!
 
Want to join? Just ask me!
 
"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.
Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
 
serenbat is offline  
#36 of 41 Old 05-08-2014, 10:52 AM
 
prosciencemum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United Kingdom (have lived previously in the USA).
Posts: 2,104
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 373 Post(s)
Medical tests on pregnant women and infants are very difficult ethically as I'm sure you all know.

I'm also sure that if a larger sample size reveals any problems it will be pulled.

And I'm also sure many will never be convinced of the safety. I've heard people say we should check if there's any risks to children whose grandmothers had vaccines while pregnant with their mum or dad. Will be a while before that can be checked.

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences). Vaccines save lives.
prosciencemum is offline  
#37 of 41 Old 05-08-2014, 12:13 PM
 
applejuice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: hunting the wild aebelskiever
Posts: 19,509
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)

Were any of these 48 women told of their experimental status and advised accordingly?

 

Did they sign anything?

 

How much of a follow up was done with these women and their babies?


“Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth, for being correct, for being you. NEVER apologize for being correct, or for being years ahead of your time. If you are right and you know it, speak your mind. Even if you are a minority of one, the Truth is still the Truth.”

~ Gandhi ~
applejuice is offline  
#38 of 41 Old 05-08-2014, 12:18 PM
 
prosciencemum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United Kingdom (have lived previously in the USA).
Posts: 2,104
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 373 Post(s)
Since it would be unethical otherwise I imagine they did. You could find the JAMA article to check.

I note the media report in the op says it's a preliminary study. And it claims 15/48 women got a placebo vaccine. I wonder about the ethics of that.....

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences). Vaccines save lives.
prosciencemum is offline  
#39 of 41 Old 05-08-2014, 12:26 PM
 
applejuice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: hunting the wild aebelskiever
Posts: 19,509
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)

You imagine they did? 

 

Did you ever read the book, Our Little Miracle, Louise?  

Mrs. Brown was NEVER told that of the experimental nature of the hormones and surgical procedures she endured.  

She was never informed that she was the first successful in vitro pregnancy until the end of the pregnancy.

In the book, Mrs. Brown said that she just figured that women walked around with a baby conceived this way and never said anything.

Mrs. Brown was shocked and afraid when she was told that HERS was the first successful pregnancy.

 

You do know that the results of the Dieckmann study was ignored and the Wonder Drug was used for another generation - 20 years - and never recalled.

 

Bottom Line:  Modern Medicine has a bad reputation and history with informed consent and experiments. 

 

I wonder what the placebo could have been - it is usually another vaccine or the excipients.

serenbat likes this.

“Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth, for being correct, for being you. NEVER apologize for being correct, or for being years ahead of your time. If you are right and you know it, speak your mind. Even if you are a minority of one, the Truth is still the Truth.”

~ Gandhi ~
applejuice is offline  
#40 of 41 Old 07-06-2014, 12:38 PM
 
applejuice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: hunting the wild aebelskiever
Posts: 19,509
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Quote:
We all had DTaP, we all had the boosters, and we all ****l got whooping cough." the mother told KTVU from her home. She wanted to keep the family's identity secret. "They had a low grade fever and this just seemed like another cold," she said. After repeated visits to the doctor's office, she asked for a pertussis test. "I said just swab them so we can eliminate it." The test came back positive.



I can only imagine how many persons this entire family exposed on each of their "repeated" visits to the doctor's office: in the office, enroute to the office, and on the way home, and on any errand they ran to pick up meds for the wrong diagnoses. FABULOUS!
applejuice is offline  
#41 of 41 Old 07-06-2014, 12:56 PM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 8,938
Mentioned: 90 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 965 Post(s)
The children probably continued to go to school.
applejuice likes this.
Deborah is offline  
Reply


User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Online Users: 10,187

77 members and 10,110 guests
94txaggie , Ajbaby , andreyanna , badwolf092087 , blissful_maia , bluefaery , bluesapphire , bren94 , bubbagirl , Cheeky-One , chickabiddy , daniellebluetoo , Dawn's mom , forkids100 , Fox-fern , frugalmama , girlspn , heyxxmcfly , ian'smommaya , japonica , jtkurt , kanaha , lbeyl , Lifted , lilmissgiggles , LiLStar , Linda on the move , LittleLlama , LTurtle , mamashanti , Milk8shake , moodymomma , moominmamma , MountainMamaGC , Mummoth , neemoomommy , oaksie68 , pers , persephassa , philomom , primalmom , pulcetti , Reyhan , Roma ismail , rubelin , sageowl , SandiMae , sarafl , Serafina33 , shantimama , shoeg8rl , Smokering , sofreshsoclean , Soseraphina , SplashingPuddle , spruce , ssun5 , thinkingmom , Tigerle , TourmalineMama , TrishWSU , txkimwalt , typebug , Wild Rose , winterpromise31 , Xerxella , zannster , zebra15 , ZurieFleur
Most users ever online was 449,755, 06-25-2014 at 12:21 PM.