How common are vaccination errors? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 100 Old 06-30-2014, 08:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
One of the most dangerous errors, and hardest to spot, is re-use of needles. This can easily spread disease, but connecting the illness to a vaccine needle re-use would be hard unless someone knew that something had been done incorrectly.

From the stats given in one of the posts above, it isn't uncommon, even in the US.
Medical error (in general) that we tend to know about primarily come from the hospitable setting, clinic, etc not the private office setting. I find it laughable to know what we DO know and not feel it's wide spread in the vaccine related areas. The types and amounts in just the hospitable setting is a huge concern!
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#62 of 100 Old 06-30-2014, 08:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
I truly think pro-vaxxers or selective/delayers should start a discussion on how to avoid a vaccine error.


Not only does it help promote the health and safety of those who do choose to vaccinate, but keeping errors low helps keep vaccine rates high. Trust is eroded when errors occur.
First you would have to concede there is a problem, a big one! It's hard to address it when you don't see
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#63 of 100 Old 06-30-2014, 09:42 AM
 
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First you would have to concede there is a problem, a big one! It's hard to address it when you don't see

I suspect some do see (although some are in denial).


I think they worry about opening cans of worms or Pandora's Box - so they deliberately underplay issues in the name of the vaccine program.

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#64 of 100 Old 06-30-2014, 12:28 PM
 
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So? The topic of this thread is "how common are vaccine errors" not "how common are errors with manufacturing."
Right, but the discussion seemed to have moved onto vaccine manufacturing errors and FDA monitoring in the previous posts.

I'm still not seeing any examples of these human or manufacturing errors causing severe harm or death.

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#65 of 100 Old 06-30-2014, 01:10 PM
 
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Right, but the discussion seemed to have moved onto vaccine manufacturing errors and FDA monitoring in the previous posts.

I'm still not seeing any examples of these human or manufacturing errors causing severe harm or death.
So I'm assume since you don't see harm (severe) you must think all vaccines are just the same and so what? Little extra, that must be A-OK?

I'm assuming you didn't look at the links I post in post #59 - just how many examples would you need to see? Apparently the industry (medical community) sees vaccine errors as an issue and talks about it but not you? Could be significant mustn't mean sever to you!

However, if errors happen when prescribing, dispensing, or administering vaccines, the adverse impact on disease prevention could be significant, particularly to individuals who are not fully protected or have experienced a preventable adverse vaccine event.


and here is more - (again those who actually have something to do with vaccines, see "errors" as a problem!) -

http://www.ihi.org/education/ihiopen...isclosure.aspx

https://www.pharmacytimes.org/landing/280

 

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#66 of 100 Old 06-30-2014, 01:21 PM
 
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I'm still not seeing any examples of these human or manufacturing errors causing severe harm or death.
1. post 49

2. "From September 2012 through October 2013, a total of 433 reports were submitted to the ISMP VERP. Most reports (90%) involved vaccine errors that reached patients. The remaining reports were classified as close calls (6%) (errors that happened but did not reach the patient) or hazardous conditions that warrant concern (4%)" bolding mine.

3. ""In an incident that came to light just two weeks ago<2011>, children in Colorado were exposed to reused syringes when receiving flu vaccinations in an outpatient pediatric clinic. Dozens of families received letters telling them that their child should be tested for bloodborne viruses such as Hepatitis C and HIV, Perz said." If there wasn't an medical issue relating from this - everyone got darn lucky (which is not good enough)

4. Don't you, tea, think it is dangerous to go about unvaxxed? Well, vaccine errors often equal not getting the vaccine you wanted, and thus going about unprotected. Do you not see this as an issue?

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#67 of 100 Old 06-30-2014, 04:12 PM
 
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Dtap contaminated with milk proteins:

/http://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749%2811%2900747-0/fulltext
and
http://www.aaaai.org/ask-the-expert/...k-protein.aspx

I don't have time to type a proper post (sorry!) so you can read these links and decide if you think the rise of milk allergies in US children might related to the vaccine. Of course, they assure us the reactions are RARE, as usual. I wonder what else would explain the rise in allergies ( maybe hormones, antibiotics, GMOs, etc. in cattle feed could be another good reason for the increase in allergies, in addition to the milk proteins in the dtap.)

Oh, and the reason I wanted to post these links is because pediatricians do not warn parents to avoid the dtap (or proceed with caution) if their children have milk allergies.

 
 
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#68 of 100 Old 06-30-2014, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Dtap contaminated with milk proteins:
This is a good example of manufacturing errors. We could do a separate thread on that topic. There seem to be many examples.
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#69 of 100 Old 07-01-2014, 12:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
1. post 49

2. "From September 2012 through October 2013, a total of 433 reports were submitted to the ISMP VERP. Most reports (90%) involved vaccine errors that reached patients. The remaining reports were classified as close calls (6%) (errors that happened but did not reach the patient) or hazardous conditions that warrant concern (4%)" bolding mine.

3. ""In an incident that came to light just two weeks ago<2011>, children in Colorado were exposed to reused syringes when receiving flu vaccinations in an outpatient pediatric clinic. Dozens of families received letters telling them that their child should be tested for bloodborne viruses such as Hepatitis C and HIV, Perz said." If there wasn't an medical issue relating from this - everyone got darn lucky (which is not good enough)

4. Don't you, tea, think it is dangerous to go about unvaxxed? Well, vaccine errors often equal not getting the vaccine you wanted, and thus going about unprotected. Do you not see this as an issue?
"Warrant concern" does not equal= severe harm or death from a vaccine error.

Reusing needles is a terrible mistake, and any and all steps should be implemented to ever keep that from happening, but once again I'm not seeing any evidence that this resulted in any severe harm or death. In the US, it would be really uncommon for a child to have AIDS or Hep C. So out of 24 children who may have used a dirty needle, they would have to have been really unlucky to have been exposed to a child with one of those conditions, since the vast majority of children do not have blood borne viruses. Reusing dirty needles is not a common error here in the US at all. People know they'd be (rightfully) sued for millions.

Reiterating my point that while vaccine errors do happen, severe harm or death from vaccine errors are extraordinarily rare. The risks of disease FAR outweigh the potential risks of harm from a vaccine error.

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#70 of 100 Old 07-01-2014, 02:13 PM
 
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"Warrant concern" does not equal= severe harm or death from a vaccine error.

Reusing needles is a terrible mistake, and any and all steps should be implemented to ever keep that from happening, but once again I'm not seeing any evidence that this resulted in any severe harm or death. In the US, it would be really uncommon for a child to have AIDS or Hep C. So out of 24 children who may have used a dirty needle, they would have to have been really unlucky to have been exposed to a child with one of those conditions, since the vast majority of children do not have blood borne viruses. Reusing dirty needles is not a common error here in the US at all. People know they'd be (rightfully) sued for millions.

Reiterating my point that while vaccine errors do happen, severe harm or death from vaccine errors are extraordinarily rare. The risks of disease FAR outweigh the potential risks of harm from a vaccine error.

Again, the medical community feels there are issues regarding vaccine errors and I have found nothing that supports your "opinion" here.

Do you have a source (link) that states your assertion that - "The risks of diseases FAR outweigh the potential risks of harm from a vaccine error"? Proof please?

 

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#71 of 100 Old 07-01-2014, 02:18 PM
 
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Reusing needles is a terrible mistake, and any and all steps should be implemented to ever keep that from happening, but once again I'm not seeing any evidence that this resulted in any severe harm or death. In the US, it would be really uncommon for a child to have AIDS or Hep C. So out of 24 children who may have used a dirty needle, they would have to have been really unlucky to have been exposed to a child with one of those conditions, since the vast majority of children do not have blood borne viruses. Reusing dirty needles is not a common error here in the US at all. People know they'd be (rightfully) sued for millions.
Sounds like dismissal to me (shrug)

How about this instead:

"It is really crappy that vaccine errors like this happen. It is more than crappy - it is borderline inevitable that these type of errors will results in severe harm. Parents can do xyz to prevent these type of errors from hapenning to their children."

It is odd to me that diseases are a threat even when they are not present - "they could come back, and they are just a plane ride away" but vaccine errors, even when it involves re-using needles on your own shores - is not important.

It actually seems re-using needles and syringes is pretty common, given the above study (post 52).
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#72 of 100 Old 07-01-2014, 02:20 PM
 
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"Warrant concern" does not equal= severe harm or death from a vaccine error.

.
Oh, and it seems you forgot the most important part of the quote:

"hazardous conditions that warrant concern" (4%)
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#73 of 100 Old 07-01-2014, 02:34 PM
 
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This was a good read on safe injection practices - and the laxness that seems to exist. 2009.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...728046131.html

"Unsafe injection practices are one of the leading causes of infections in doctors' offices, outpatient clinics and long-term-care facilities, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention…..

Diseases like HIV and hepatitis can be transmitted if an infected person is given a shot and either the syringe or needle is then reused. Even microscopic backflow into the syringe from the infected person can contaminate it.…

The American Association of Nurse Anesthetists raised concerns about injection safety in 2002 after a survey found that one in every 100 health-care workers who give injections reuse the same syringe or needle on multiple patients."
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#74 of 100 Old 07-01-2014, 06:46 PM
 
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Dtap contaminated with milk proteins:

/http://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749%2811%2900747-0/fulltext
and
http://www.aaaai.org/ask-the-expert/...k-protein.aspx

I don't have time to type a proper post (sorry!) so you can read these links and decide if you think the rise of milk allergies in US children might related to the vaccine. Of course, they assure us the reactions are RARE, as usual. I wonder what else would explain the rise in allergies ( maybe hormones, antibiotics, GMOs, etc. in cattle feed could be another good reason for the increase in allergies, in addition to the milk proteins in the dtap.)

Oh, and the reason I wanted to post these links is because pediatricians do not warn parents to avoid the dtap (or proceed with caution) if their children have milk allergies.
Yikes!! We have no idea the cause of our LO's casein issues, she certainly reacted to the dairy I was eating early on while nursing and even though the ped denied dairy was an issue for her, I removed it from my diet and lo and behold her fussing and explosive pooping stopped! BUT - she did react to DTaP the 2x she was given it and we stopped vaxxing because of those reactions. Now I wonder! But there was never any mention of this risk whatsoever and her file is riddled with my concerns about her having food intolerances, dairy being the primary concern!!
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#75 of 100 Old 07-01-2014, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yikes!! We have no idea the cause of our LO's casein issues, she certainly reacted to the dairy I was eating early on while nursing and even though the ped denied dairy was an issue for her, I removed it from my diet and lo and behold her fussing and explosive pooping stopped! BUT - she did react to DTaP the 2x she was given it and we stopped vaxxing because of those reactions. Now I wonder! But there was never any mention of this risk whatsoever and her file is riddled with my concerns about her having food intolerances, dairy being the primary concern!!
That is an excellent example of a vaccine related concern being dismissed/overlooked. It does seem as though vaccines are hedged around with a sort of magical screen that keeps doctors from thinking about them as playing a role in just about any problem. Sigh.
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#76 of 100 Old 07-02-2014, 08:40 AM
 
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Sounds like dismissal to me (shrug)

How about this instead:

"It is really crappy that vaccine errors like this happen. It is more than crappy - it is borderline inevitable that these type of errors will results in severe harm. Parents can do xyz to prevent these type of errors from hapenning to their children."
No, I just think you (and humans in general) are pretty bad at interpreting risk. Your child is more likely to be harmed driving to the park than from a vaccine.

Here is a list of the top 10 most dangerous foods. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/33183857/n.../#.U7Qj4I1dXeY

"Salads and other food items containing leafy greens — iceberg lettuce, romaine lettuce, leaf lettuce, butter lettuce, baby leaf lettuce, escarole, endive, spring mix, spinach, cabbage, kale, arugula or chard — accounted for 24 percent of the outbreaks, which sickened at least 13,568 people. Another pathogen appearing frequently in leafy greens is norovirus, which was linked to 64 percent of the outbreaks in leafy greens. Salmonella was responsible for another 10 percent. Contamination may be present from production and processing or through improper handling, such as inadequate handwashing."

Oysters:

"Oysters have been linked to 132 outbreaks, with 3,409 reported cases of illness. When served raw or undercooked, those oysters can cause gastroenteritis, an inflammation of the stomach and small or large intestines. Vibrio, a type of bacterium in the same family as cholera, can cause a severe illness, particularly in those with a compromised immune system, characterized by fever and chills, septic shock and blistering skin lesions and can even be fatal."

Ice Cream

"Whether served in a cone or in a cup, America's favorite frozen treat occasionally can carry a load of dangerous bacteria. Ice cream has been linked to 74 outbreaks involving 2,594 reported cases of illness from pathogens such as salmonella and staphylcoccus since 1990. Soft ice cream can be particularly hazardous to pregnant women. Listeria can survive on metal surfaces — such as the interior of soft ice cream machines — and may contaminate batch after batch of products."

Point is, EVERYTHING in life carries risk. Even eating. Are you not going to ever let your child eat leafy greens, cheese, oysters, ice cream, sprouts, tuna, sprouts, or berries now?

And once again, the risk of harm from disease is MUCH higher than the risk of possible harm from a vaccine error.

Here's an interesting read.

"Extensive literature on risk perception has also illuminated other natural tendencies: to underestimate risks associated with activities we enjoy while overestimating risks for those we dread; to overestimate risks we are involuntarily exposed to (e.g. pesticides in food, air quality) as compared to activities we choose. For example, individuals tolerate the risk associated with skiing while objecting to the potential adverse effects of food preservatives even though the risk of injury from skiing is roughly 1000 times higher.7"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2778767/

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And once again, the risk of harm from disease is MUCH higher than the risk of possible harm from a vaccine error.
And who are YOU to make this decision for someone else? That's YOUR risk assessment, not mine. Feel free to assess away for your own offspring but you nor any doctor can make that assessment for me and my child. You don't know people's personal history, and it gets old, all this pro-vax preaching as if we're all incapable of making informed decisions unless those decisions fall in line with the mainstream view. Oh and btw, I won't be giving my kid ice cream, I don't feel like cleaning up the vomit afterwards. Just assessed that risk
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#78 of 100 Old 07-02-2014, 10:11 AM
 
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And once again, the risk of harm from disease is MUCH higher than the risk of possible harm from a vaccine error.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2778767/

again, it's simply an opinion and you have not provided any link to back this claim up or facts either

That new study - http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?re...=13164&page=R1 puts it so well, IMO. “Inadequate to accept or reject” means just that—inadequate.

yet somehow you seem to assert something a committee that looked at several studies does not - how odd?!
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#79 of 100 Old 07-02-2014, 10:15 AM
 
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No, I just think you (and humans in general) are pretty bad at interpreting risk. Your child is more likely to be harmed driving to the park than from a vaccine.
I am pretty sure I am as good as you are at assessing risk.
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#80 of 100 Old 07-02-2014, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hey, calm down ladies! Don't get grumpy just because someone quoted someone about risk perception.
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#81 of 100 Old 07-18-2014, 08:42 PM
 
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http://foxct.com/2014/07/18/hartford-hospital-vaccines

Thought I'd update with a recent error (close to home for me!). Most shocking is that it goes back for a period of almost 2 years! On my phone so can't quote but they've kindly offered to revax for free - in the comfort of your home if need be! Wonder if they plan to stick around and watch for VAX reactions.....
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#82 of 100 Old 07-18-2014, 09:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Super common I think. And I wonder how often it occurs. Small medical offices may not monitor their refrigerators all that well in the first place and who would ever notice that the vaccines had not been kept at a steady temp?
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#83 of 100 Old 07-19-2014, 04:43 AM
 
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http://foxct.com/2014/07/18/hartford-hospital-vaccines

Thought I'd update with a recent error (close to home for me!). Most shocking is that it goes back for a period of almost 2 years! On my phone so can't quote but they've kindly offered to revax for free - in the comfort of your home if need be! Wonder if they plan to stick around and watch for VAX reactions.....
doubt it...they couldn't care less if the first batch caused any, why would the second doses be of any concern of theirs? Point and shoot, folks...but don't expect us to come back to your house if your'e having a reaction, you'll be told to go to the ER, where the denial will set in about a vaccine reaction.
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#84 of 100 Old 07-20-2014, 12:00 PM
 
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In our state the offices get vaccines from the state and are required to keep a log of daily temps which is then turned in to the state. It would surprise me that people would record an out of range temp and not acknowledge it, then have no one at the dept of public health do anything about it, nor our pharmcist (the hospital owns the local practices so they send a pharm tech to check temps, expiration dares, etc) but all are humans, so human error is possible... My DD has received injections (for RSV, so not a vaccine) at home, and I've gotten them at non-office locations, and the standard is to wait/ be observed for 15min after which is the requirement in offices too, it's pretty standard.
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Definitely not the standard here - when DD did get vaxxed it was at the end of the visit and we were rushed out the door, they even take your co=pay and sched next visit before you even see the doc.

This is our largest hospital/hospital network, the locations listed are some of the busiest offices they have. Doesn't give me much faith for smaller, lesser known operations
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#86 of 100 Old 07-20-2014, 07:03 PM
 
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http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr6002a1.htm

Buried sort of far down, under managing adverse reactions. They recommend waiting 15 min. Maybe the problems aren't with the vaccines, but that you all seem to be seeing doctors who don't follow the standard of care? That has been standard every where I have gone/worked.
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#87 of 100 Old 07-20-2014, 11:13 PM
 
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Waiting afterwards always standard in my experience too.

When mine were babies I took the chance to breast feed and calm both them and myself down after the injection.

More recently it was a book and a cuddle.
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#88 of 100 Old 07-21-2014, 07:16 AM
 
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Ratchet, PSM, did you ever consider the fact that since you are a nurse or scientist, that is, you are a colleague, that you may receive more careful, precise care than the rest of us peasants?
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#89 of 100 Old 07-21-2014, 10:49 AM
 
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There was a sign posted that everyone should wait following vaccination in case of rare adverse reactions. Perhaps I'm unusual in that I read it.....
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#90 of 100 Old 07-21-2014, 02:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post
There was a sign posted that everyone should wait following vaccination in case of rare adverse reactions. Perhaps I'm unusual in that I read it.....
Correct me if I am wrong here - You don't do vaccines in the same types of setting like most here in the US do? You do a special clinics don't you? Not in a regular well/office visit?

Since most of our medial facilities are multi use perhaps that is the reason. As it's been discussed prior, each state makes their own rules here. With that, the type of "consent" is also different, from verbal to handing out papers and signing, thus the reason I have never seen any sign any place for vaccines.

I would love to see an Ad Council billboard for one! I don't even see washing hands!

 

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