Measles and Measles Vaccines - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 10 Old 06-26-2014, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Measles and Measles Vaccines

Found this to be a very interesting account of the measles vaccine history with many points hopefully people from all sides may want to discuss here:


http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/20...otten-history/
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#2 of 10 Old 06-26-2014, 10:14 PM
 
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Believe it or not, I'm going to nitpick this a little.

I take issue with two things here. First, those ubiquitous mortality charts don't consider morbidity.

I would really like to see a morbidity chart, as well. I'm less interested in the mild diarrhea or ear infections and more interested in things like encephalitis and blindness. Mortality is only one part of the picture, and it could be argued that decreased morbidity of genuinely serious conditions is a benefit of measles vaccination.

Second, I strongly suspect some measles vaccine failure is going on. Even the pharma-funded Dr. Gregory Poland is calling for a new vaccine. Here's a fascinating article on this topic. http://www.edwardjennersociety.org/wp-content/uploads/The-re-emergence-of-measles1.pdf

But . . . outbreaks in the late 80s and early 90s led public health officials to mandate a second dose. Citing vaccine failure cases prior to the two- dose regimen, as the article in the OP does, doesn't really make a good case for vaccine failure. The pro-vaxxiest of pro-vaxxers will retort that, yes, that's why we now have two doses. What you'd need is evidence of ineffectiveness for two doses, not just one. Make sense?
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#3 of 10 Old 06-27-2014, 06:06 AM
 
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I'd like to see charts comparing reactions, both from vaccines and measles virus in both the malnourished and well-nourished populations because I think that would paint a much better picture of reactivity of the virus and the vaccine. The encephalopathy is probably my number one concern with any vaccine or disease. My LO did the DTaP screaming indicative of encephalopathy at 2 and 5 mos and it was horrible and it took her weeks to recover and act "normal" after each. I will probably NEVER know if that damage is permanent or the full extend of it. MMR is now being given at 12mos...how many kids are that verbal at that age to be able to describe this sensation? I know my own child was highly verbal with over 25 words at a year - but none of those words described feelings. Pain was still just a crying episode and mommy would guess the cause. Encephalopathy can be caused by either vaccine or measles virus - but which at a higher rate? We know that VAERS may only contain the bare minimum of vax reactions so there really is no way to compare the two until we have full compliance with reaction reporting and tracking.
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Originally Posted by sassyfirechick View Post
We know that VAERS may only contain the bare minimum of vax reactions so there really is no way to compare the two until we have full compliance with reaction reporting and tracking.
We would also need full compliance with reporting of measles…or at least the knowledge that for every case we see, xyz number go unreported.

In the pre-vaccine era, only about 1/7 cases of measles were reported. (CDC Pink Book) This can make diseases look much scarier than they actually are.

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#5 of 10 Old 06-27-2014, 07:39 AM
 
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Yep! The 'deny deny deny' attitude for both just has to go.
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#6 of 10 Old 06-27-2014, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post

I would really like to see a morbidity chart, as well. I'm less interested in the mild diarrhea or ear infections and more interested in things like encephalitis and blindness. Mortality is only one part of the picture, and it could be argued that decreased morbidity of genuinely serious conditions is a benefit of measles vaccination.
I agree but I also agree with sasssyfirechick that it would have to be shown comparing nourished to malnourished.

Furthermore, I want to see an honest discussion between medical researchers etc about the benefit of having the measles. I think in a discussion of risks and benefits it is crucial to know what, if any, benefits there are to having the disease in the short and long term.

I want to see an investigation of the observations that after children have contracted the disease, they seem to make great strides developmentally.
I want to know if:

Quote:
Having measles not only results in life-long specific immunity to measles, but also in life-long non-specific immunity to degenerative diseases of bone and cartilage, sebaceous skin diseases, immunoreactive diseases and certain tumours as demonstrated by Ronne (1985). - http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/20....MJzrCYsK.dpuf
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#7 of 10 Old 06-27-2014, 09:44 AM
 
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I'm also interested in the question of whether the rate of complications dropped as the mortality rate dropped. It would make sense that fewer complications would result in less mortality.

Our official complications rates are from the 1989 outbreak, I think, when reported rates and actual rates differed significantly AND when the percentage of cases in adults and infants was much higher than in the pre-vaccine era. Both populations are more likely to have complications and higher mortality.
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#8 of 10 Old 06-27-2014, 01:41 PM
 
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Good point about the vaccine reactions, SFC. I still think that standing alone, the two arguments that I pointed out are among the weaker ones that vaccine critics use.
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#9 of 10 Old 08-11-2014, 09:30 AM
 
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My question is if a child has the mmr vaxs at the required times and then later has a measle-like illness (mli) do they then have true immunity from measles? I didn't see this answered in the article but it might have been over my head. Thanks to anyone who can shed some light on this for me.
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#10 of 10 Old 08-11-2014, 01:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pirate1624 View Post
My question is if a child has the mmr vaxs at the required times and then later has a measle-like illness (mli) do they then have true immunity from measles? I didn't see this answered in the article but it might have been over my head. Thanks to anyone who can shed some light on this for me.
Is you question IF you child does get mumps or rubella? Since it's a combo, like others also are, you can have one portion take and one not. They are not 100%!

Do you know you can do a titer test to all see what the levels are.
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