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#1 of 22 Old 06-27-2014, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Husband trying to force vaccinations

Hi,

I'm hoping someone out there might have some resources or information to help me in my situation.

My husband is planning to divorce me, but it waiting until I start my job in August so that I can afford to move out. In the mean time, my children will need to start Kindergarten/Pre-School, also in August.

The problem is that he has changed his mind about vaccinations. He claims that he was never in agreement with no vaccinations, but that's not true. We discussed this before. We stopped vaccinating our first child after just a couple vaccines when he was born. My husband has never said anything against this before, and even gave people dirty looks when they said they were vaccinating their children. At any rate, we are both still legally married, and he wants joint custody when he divorces me.

I told him that it only made sense for him to look at the information and research on the subject. Since time went on and he didn't do any research, I personally made a large binder for him with various articles and research about the issues with vaccines. He claims to have read about 25% of it and he's lost it since. I have also spent money on purchasing a couple books on the subject and he said he would read them, and he has not read them. Now he is pushing me saying that, "School is coming up and this is required." However, we live in California and there is absolutely NO ISSUE whatsoever with obtaining an exemption. I told him that (like he doesn't know) and he said he just wasn't "willing to sign an exemption."

My last recourse is to show him a DVD with information, but he seems to think I am paranoid and believe whatever "Dr. Google" says. He has A LOT of trust in mainstream medicine/institutions, and that is difficult for me to comprehend when there is SO MUCH INFORMATION to the contrary!!! But he doesn't want to look at it!!! He seems to think it's all from paranoid snake-oil hippies!!! I'm going to try to sit down with him one last time and go over the information for each vaccine and the effects/risks of each ingredient.

I don't know what to do. Are there any legal recourses? As far as I understand, I cannot stop him from injecting my children with these poisonous substances. He is NOT OPEN to information, it seems, and he is PUSHING to do this in the next month, before school starts (which is not my choice to even send my children to school, as my plan was to homeschool, but that is being taken away from me, as well).

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
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#2 of 22 Old 06-27-2014, 02:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Lulubee08 View Post
Hi,

I'm hoping someone out there might have some resources or information to help me in my situation.

My husband is planning to divorce me, but it waiting until I start my job in August so that I can afford to move out. In the mean time, my children will need to start Kindergarten/Pre-School, also in August.

The problem is that he has changed his mind about vaccinations. He claims that he was never in agreement with no vaccinations, but that's not true. We discussed this before. We stopped vaccinating our first child after just a couple vaccines when he was born. My husband has never said anything against this before, and even gave people dirty looks when they said they were vaccinating their children. At any rate, we are both still legally married, and he wants joint custody when he divorces me.

I told him that it only made sense for him to look at the information and research on the subject. Since time went on and he didn't do any research, I personally made a large binder for him with various articles and research about the issues with vaccines. He claims to have read about 25% of it and he's lost it since. I have also spent money on purchasing a couple books on the subject and he said he would read them, and he has not read them. Now he is pushing me saying that, "School is coming up and this is required." However, we live in California and there is absolutely NO ISSUE whatsoever with obtaining an exemption. I told him that (like he doesn't know) and he said he just wasn't "willing to sign an exemption."

My last recourse is to show him a DVD with information, but he seems to think I am paranoid and believe whatever "Dr. Google" says. He has A LOT of trust in mainstream medicine/institutions, and that is difficult for me to comprehend when there is SO MUCH INFORMATION to the contrary!!! But he doesn't want to look at it!!! He seems to think it's all from paranoid snake-oil hippies!!! I'm going to try to sit down with him one last time and go over the information for each vaccine and the effects/risks of each ingredient.

I don't know what to do. Are there any legal recourses? As far as I understand, I cannot stop him from injecting my children with these poisonous substances. He is NOT OPEN to information, it seems, and he is PUSHING to do this in the next month, before school starts (which is not my choice to even send my children to school, as my plan was to homeschool, but that is being taken away from me, as well).

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
What a tough situation.

I would maybe try and work out a compromise until you guys can discuss things further. Is there a particular vaccine he is adamant about? Are there any vaccines you are open to? There are some vaccines, like rotavirus for example, that your children don't really need at their ages.

But usually, if you guys can't agree on any kind of compromise, the courts will rule on the side of vaccines, potentially even the whole schedule if that's what their father wants.

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#3 of 22 Old 06-27-2014, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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What a tough situation.

I would maybe try and work out a compromise until you guys can discuss things further. Is there a particular vaccine he is adamant about? Are there any vaccines you are open to? There are some vaccines, like rotavirus for example, that your children don't really need at their ages.

But usually, if you guys can't agree on any kind of compromise, the courts will rule on the side of vaccines, potentially even the whole schedule if that's what their father wants.
Unfortunately, this is a 100% no compromise area... I will not compromise on my children's health and well-being and he's just "whatever-ing" me. I feel like he thinks this is some kind of "power play" or something, but this is nothing to play with: it's our CHILDREN! And since we are still married, there is no time to go through the court system with issues on parental rights/custody/etc. before school (and my job) starts. With the job I will be taking, I will not have the luxury to take off time to focus on this, but he will. I trust God is in control, but I'm seeking all the information I can in the meantime.
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#4 of 22 Old 06-27-2014, 02:44 PM
 
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Unfortunately, this is a 100% no compromise area... I will not compromise on my children's health and well-being and he's just "whatever-ing" me. I feel like he thinks this is some kind of "power play" or something, but this is nothing to play with: it's our CHILDREN! And since we are still married, there is no time to go through the court system with issues on parental rights/custody/etc. before school (and my job) starts. With the job I will be taking, I will not have the luxury to take off time to focus on this, but he will. I trust God is in control, but I'm seeking all the information I can in the meantime.
Again, this is a really tough situation.


I believe the only time I have ever heard of a court case going in the favor of the non vaccinating parent was when it was in the divorce papers that they would either not vaccinate or agree on all medical interventions. Sounds like he is probably going to make sure thats not going to be in them.

So unless your children have a medical exemption to vaccines, there really isn't much you can do I don't think. Courts will almost always rule in the favor of the vaccinating parent in these cases.

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#5 of 22 Old 06-27-2014, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Again, this is a really tough situation.


I believe the only time I have ever heard of a court case going in the favor of the non vaccinating parent was when it was in the divorce papers that they would either not vaccinate or agree on all medical interventions. Sounds like he is probably going to make sure thats not going to be in them.

So unless your children have a medical exemption to vaccines, there really isn't much you can do I don't think. Courts will almost always rule in the favor of the vaccinating parent in these cases.
Thank you for taking the time to reply. This is an upside-down world we live in. :-(
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#6 of 22 Old 06-27-2014, 02:48 PM
 
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I had to ask for sole custody to make medical decisions without xdh.

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#7 of 22 Old 06-27-2014, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I had to ask for sole custody to make medical decisions without xdh.
I will probably have to do that, but I know he will fight it. He's a good dad... just misguided and doesn't take the time to find things out for himself.
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#8 of 22 Old 06-27-2014, 05:33 PM
 
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So unless your children have a medical exemption to vaccines, there really isn't much you can do I don't think. Courts will almost always rule in the favor of the vaccinating parent in these cases.
Really? Let's push the fear a little more. You have every right to a decision in your children's medical care. For starters draft up a letter or affidavit stating you do not consent to any vaccinations of your children and will press charges against anyone who does so without your permission and have it notarized. Put this on file at the pediatricians office. They won't get into the middle of a legal battle - doctors are not exempt from the law the way vaccine manufacturers are. Not all judges are going to side with the vaxxing parent, and really it shouldn't even be in the top ten radar in all fairness. You, however, should be looking for a lawyer who is non-vax savvy. Don't allow him to to control you with fear. You've done your reading, you know what you are doing, and if he didn't care to educate himself, then that's his loss because you can make educated statements.

Also, if you are adamant about the non-vaxxing or would consider a select/delayed route - head on over to one of the sub forums with this and cross post and hopefully you get more constructive answers than someone telling you to just accept that you won't win this.

There was an older thread if you search the archives, someone going through similar, not sure if she made it back to update but you might see some answers on there as well. Hopefully you get someone with experience to help out!
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#9 of 22 Old 06-27-2014, 05:37 PM
 
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I'm guessing your doc is supportive of not vaccinating? Will your husband talk to them? I'm guessing (hoping) that no dr is going to force years worth of vaccines on a couple of children in a matter of weeks. Just wondering if your doc may be an untapped source on this.

This sounds really tough. I'm sorry you're going through this. (((hugs)))

Best wishes,
Sus
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#10 of 22 Old 06-28-2014, 12:56 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Really? Let's push the fear a little more. You have every right to a decision in your children's medical care. For starters draft up a letter or affidavit stating you do not consent to any vaccinations of your children and will press charges against anyone who does so without your permission and have it notarized. Put this on file at the pediatricians office. They won't get into the middle of a legal battle - doctors are not exempt from the law the way vaccine manufacturers are. Not all judges are going to side with the vaxxing parent, and really it shouldn't even be in the top ten radar in all fairness. You, however, should be looking for a lawyer who is non-vax savvy. Don't allow him to to control you with fear. You've done your reading, you know what you are doing, and if he didn't care to educate himself, then that's his loss because you can make educated statements.

Also, if you are adamant about the non-vaxxing or would consider a select/delayed route - head on over to one of the sub forums with this and cross post and hopefully you get more constructive answers than someone telling you to just accept that you won't win this.

There was an older thread if you search the archives, someone going through similar, not sure if she made it back to update but you might see some answers on there as well. Hopefully you get someone with experience to help out!
Yeah... I'm totally anti-vax. Well, from what I have read so far, the problem is that we are still married.... especially, since he's trying to push for this so quickly. I tend to get impassionate about issues like this, so I'm going to try to be calm and collected (he's got some issues where he shuts me out if he thinks I'm trying to "control" him). That's the first thing to try to avoid legal confrontation.... I will definitely look into some kind of statement that can be drafted up... that is a good idea, thank you!
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#11 of 22 Old 06-28-2014, 01:03 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm guessing your doc is supportive of not vaccinating? Will your husband talk to them? I'm guessing (hoping) that no dr is going to force years worth of vaccines on a couple of children in a matter of weeks. Just wondering if your doc may be an untapped source on this.

This sounds really tough. I'm sorry you're going through this. (((hugs)))

Best wishes,
Sus
Aww, thanks. My pediatrician is totally supportive (praise God!). What he generally recommends is the delayed schedule, along with supplements to take before and after to help mitigate the toxic effects. I might just call his office to ask what they do in cases like these, actually—at least, to know. I guess my concern is that my husband might be so stubborn, he might just pick up and get a new pediatrician, just to get his way. Thank you for your input!
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#12 of 22 Old 06-28-2014, 01:05 AM - Thread Starter
 
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THANK YOU, ALL, FOR TAKING THE TIME TO GIVE YOUR INPUT AND INSIGHT. It's a little bit (a lot) lonely to go against the grain with vaccines, and I'm sort of in a tough spot. Thank you for your support.
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#13 of 22 Old 06-28-2014, 07:51 AM
 
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You don't have to move out to start the divorce proceedings. I think it's worth contacting a lawyer and getting temporary order that goes into custody, child, and spousal support in place until you can get to court to work this out. If you haven't already you should check out be single parents forum. I think you should also be careful about being the one to move out, especially if the house is owned.
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#14 of 22 Old 06-28-2014, 03:49 PM
 
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Since you are still legally married, does California require signatures from both parents? I submitted an exemption for my kids, and my husband never signed anything. Maybe you could just submit the exemption to school with your signature for now.
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#15 of 22 Old 06-28-2014, 10:02 PM
 
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Since you are still legally married, does California require signatures from both parents? I submitted an exemption for my kids, and my husband never signed anything. Maybe you could just submit the exemption to school with your signature for now.
The California exemption form requires only one parent's signature.
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#16 of 22 Old 06-29-2014, 08:06 AM
 
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For starters draft up a letter or affidavit stating you do not consent to any vaccinations of your children and will press charges against anyone who does so without your permission and have it notarized. Put this on file at the pediatricians office. They won't get into the middle of a legal battle
I feel like you should be warned that the way your pediatricians are most likely to keep themselves out of that legal battle is by telling you that you have to find a new pediatrician. (Also, what is notarizing this document supposed to do? I was a notary for a long time, and if you brought me this to notarize, I would collect your fee and stamp your letter, but I would also have to advise you that all I was doing was saying that you proved your identity to me and signed this of your own free will. That doesn't make your document legally enforceable. It just puts a pretty stamp on it.)

Family courts generally want both parents to have a say in medical decisions, and they'll encourage parents to come to mutual decisions. If that appears to be impossible, they may give medical custody to one parent or another, and make that parent the only one who can consent to medical treatment. That would make it possible for you to make sure your kids don't get vaccinated (if a judge awarded you sole medical custody, and not your husband), but it means that if your child was ill or injured while in your husband's care, he couldn't take them to the doctor on his own, and the ER could only treat your children if their conditions were immediately life-threatening, if you weren't there. Courts are generally very reluctant to give parents sole medical custody for this reason.

If your husband has changed his mind on vaccines, I'm of the opinion that the power play here is him talking about it. If he's that set on it, he could call up the pediatrician, and bring the kids in. Instead, he's arguing with you. I think the point of the discussion for him is not the vaccines, but the argument. If you call his bluff on that, he's a little more likely to stop bluffing, so I wouldn't necessarily call his bluff... but I'd look at how the argument usually goes, and see if there's a way to cut him off from whatever he's getting out of it.

Edited to add: He's waiting until August to divorce you so that YOU can afford to move out? Talk to a lawyer now, and discuss whether it makes more sense for him to leave the family home. This does reinforce my power play theory.

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#17 of 22 Old 06-29-2014, 01:48 PM
 
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What a tough situation.


But usually, if you guys can't agree on any kind of compromise,[B] the courts will rule on the side of vaccines, potentially even the whole schedule if that's what their father wants.
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Again, this is a really tough situation.


I believe the only time I have ever heard of a court case going in the favor of the non vaccinating parent was when it was in the divorce papers that they would either not vaccinate or agree on all medical interventions. Sounds like he is probably going to make sure thats not going to be in them.

So unless your children have a medical exemption to vaccines, there really isn't much you can do I don't think. Courts will almost always rule in the favor of the vaccinating parent in these cases.

No they don't! Not always and this isn't the 1950's - it's not an just what the Daddy wants it so be it - both parents are equal!

Teacozy you must have forgotten about this post you made - $441 - Why are we so worried about vax vs non-vax? The California judge ruled the children did not have to be vaccinated - both "parents" are equal and you get the agreement prior to the divorce, if one partner wants a quick divorce they usually don't get what they want in the settlement. You shoot for the moon and settle for earth.

......and good news for the OP that story just happens to be in California too! See her lawyer can use the case to help her's!

The OP isn't even divorced yet, a few things have to happen, it's called negations and it's not always one sided! It's a give and take. Given the fact these children have not been up to date on their vaccinated and now, suddenly Dad wants it doesn't make it a go. Unless this Dad is saying the divorce is on the ground these kids are not vaccinated does not mean it's an automatic either. The OP also has a doctor that can support her. You say lots of things but after you see the writing on the wall and your lawyer really has a talk with you on your chances, right now the DH is just blowing a lot of hot air. Even after a divorce it's NEVER over if you have kids, a smart lawyer will inform both parties of this. You have to deal for the sake of the kids. It's not suddenly what just one wants unless there is some reason for the OP to loose total custody here, she certainly has rights, 50% and if she get more, even better!

OP get a good lawyer, there is NO rush to get a divorce and get what you want in your agreement! Best of luck to you!
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#18 of 22 Old 06-29-2014, 04:47 PM
 
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I don't know enough to be able to give you good advice about medical-decisions-for-your-children/divorce issues.

But what I CAN say is that everything about every post you've made totally sets off my creep detector regarding your husband.

He's been untruthful with you about his past agreement to not vaccinate the children, he is asking YOU to move out, he is waiting until you have the stress and limiting factors of a new job to start a divorce, and he's very consciously using the vaccination issue as a power ploy.

I'm so sorry for what you are going through. If you were my friend or my sister, I'd be telling you to get the best lawyer you can afford, NOW, and tell her everything that you've told us (and all the things you haven't told us) so that your lawyer can offer you the best help and protection possible.

I recently heard a radio advertisement for a lawyer specifically for divorcing MEN, who (poor things) need to protect themselves against judges who find for the women. And I have to admit, some of the things that they said hold true for anyone of any gender facing divorce.

Especially this: assume that EVERYTHING you put in writing, be it email, snail mail, or a quick hand-written note, and every voice mail you leave, will be shown or played to the judge as proof of things being your fault. Not that anything really is your fault--but there are a lot of lawyers who make their money by painting their clients' soon-to-be-exes as being at fault. That includes conversations with your pediatrician, and it includes any information on vaccines that you give to your husband.

As you said, your children's health and well-being are at stake. Play it carefully, and get the best possible legal help, because it sounds like he has already gotten himself either a lawyer or a male cheering squad who encourage him to "win" at all costs.

Best of luck to you, and please do keep us posted. Sadly, I'm sure there are many moms going through this...
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#19 of 22 Old 07-01-2014, 12:48 PM
 
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No they don't! Not always and this isn't the 1950's - it's not an just what the Daddy wants it so be it - both parents are equal!

Teacozy you must have forgotten about this post you made - $441 - Why are we so worried about vax vs non-vax? The California judge ruled the children did not have to be vaccinated - both "parents" are equal and you get the agreement prior to the divorce, if one partner wants a quick divorce they usually don't get what they want in the settlement. You shoot for the moon and settle for earth.

......and good news for the OP that story just happens to be in California too! See her lawyer can use the case to help her's!

The OP isn't even divorced yet, a few things have to happen, it's called negations and it's not always one sided! It's a give and take. Given the fact these children have not been up to date on their vaccinated and now, suddenly Dad wants it doesn't make it a go. Unless this Dad is saying the divorce is on the ground these kids are not vaccinated does not mean it's an automatic either. The OP also has a doctor that can support her. You say lots of things but after you see the writing on the wall and your lawyer really has a talk with you on your chances, right now the DH is just blowing a lot of hot air. Even after a divorce it's NEVER over if you have kids, a smart lawyer will inform both parties of this. You have to deal for the sake of the kids. It's not suddenly what just one wants unless there is some reason for the OP to loose total custody here, she certainly has rights, 50% and if she get more, even better!

OP get a good lawyer, there is NO rush to get a divorce and get what you want in your agreement! Best of luck to you!
Guess you missed the part of my post (that you quoted even) that clearly stated "usually" and "almost always". To clarify, that means "most of the time, but not 100% of the time".

I don't think that's a point that even non vaxxers dispute.

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#20 of 22 Old 07-01-2014, 02:05 PM
 
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Guess you missed the part of my post (that you quoted even) that clearly stated "usually" and "almost always". To clarify, that means "most of the time, but not 100% of the time".

I don't think that's a point that even non vaxxers dispute.


I know of no non-vacers that assert false sexist remarks regarding one parents rights over that of another. AND we certainly understand medical definitions, like the use of significant!

 

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#21 of 22 Old 07-07-2014, 01:27 PM
 
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Guess you missed the part of my post (that you quoted even) that clearly stated "usually" and "almost always". To clarify, that means "most of the time, but not 100% of the time".

I don't think that's a point that even non vaxxers dispute.
Be careful! My ex took my daughter after we split up (BEFORE we had a formal custody agreement), to a health department (not her usual pediatrician) and got her multiple doses at once- she was like a zombie afterwards. She went from being extremely brilliant to just being bright. Also her exczema got worse.

It's definitely a power and control issue. I hope you will be able to work things out, so that you both feel respected and heard.
When we got our custody agreement settled, the judge gave me 100% educational, medical and religious decisionmaking, so I guess I was lucky. Don't be afraid to ask for full decisionmaking, but be reasonable in all requests.
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#22 of 22 Old 07-07-2014, 02:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sereneimago View Post
Be careful! My ex took my daughter after we split up (BEFORE we had a formal custody agreement), to a health department (not her usual pediatrician) and got her multiple doses at once- she was like a zombie afterwards. She went from being extremely brilliant to just being bright. Also her exczema got worse.

It's definitely a power and control issue. I hope you will be able to work things out, so that you both feel respected and heard.
When we got our custody agreement settled, the judge gave me 100% educational, medical and religious decisionmaking, so I guess I was lucky. Don't be afraid to ask for full decisionmaking, but be reasonable in all requests.

Making medical decisions even when still married solo can be a big deal and carry problems.
Doing so and later hoping to get custody are not usually advised, judges tend to not favor the parent that went behind the other ones back.

PP that sounds so awful for your dd! But we constantly hear about it being soooooo rare as if it doesn't happen.

 

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