What conditions are NOT caused by vaccines? - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 36Likes
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-02-2014, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 1,588
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 437 Post(s)
What conditions are NOT caused by vaccines?

The Down Syndrome line of discussion in another thread got me wondering: Which conditions (that are not 100% genetic) do you NOT believe are linked to vaccines? I saw this shockingly long list on an anti vax site of things they believe to be linked to vaccines. Do you agree/disagree with this list?

Abortion
ADD
ADEM
AIDS
Allergies
Allergy (peanut)
ALS (Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis)
Alzheimer's
Anaphylaxis
Anti-NMDA Receptor Encephalitis.
Antiphospholipid syndrome (APS)
Apnea
Appetite, anorexia
Aplastic anemia
Arthritis
Asthma
Autism
Autoimmune diseases
Bell's Palsy
Birth defects
Bowel disease
Brain Swelling
Brain damage (severe)
Blood Reactions
Bullous pemphigoid
BSE risk
Cancer
Cerebral Palsy
Coeliac Disease
CFIDS/ME
CIC (Klinkers)
CJD risk
Cot-Death--SIDS--Crib-Death
Convulsions
Chronic inflammatory
Criminality
Demylenating Polyneuropathy (CIDP).
Crohn's Disease
Cysts
Demyelination
Development disability
Death
Deep vein thrombosis (DVT)
Depression
Dermatomyositis
Diabetes
Down's syndrome
Dravet Syndrome
Dyslexia
Dystonia
Ear infections (Otitis Media)
Encephalitis
Encephalitis, Anti-NMDA Receptor
Encephalomyelitis
Eczema
Epilepsy
Erysipelas
Erythema multiforme
Eye damage
Fanconi's anemia
Feline sarcomas
Fever
Fibromyalgia
Foetal damage
Foot and mouth disease
Gait disturbances
Gangrene
Gastroenteritis
Glomerulonephritis Graves' disease
Guillain-Barre syndrome
Gulf War Syndrome
Hair loss
Headache
Heart
Hearing
Heller's syndrome
Hemolytic anemia
Henoch-Schoenlein Purpura
Hepatitis
Hughes syndrome and antiphospholipid syndrome (APS)
Hyperkinetic syndrome
Infections
Infertility
Inflammatory bowel disease
Immune Suppression
Intussusception
Kawasaki Syndrome
Kidney disorders
Leukemia & lymphoma
Lennox-gastaut syndrome
Leprosy
Lichen planus
Liver disorders
Lou Gehrig's disease
Lung, breathing
Lupus
Lyell's syndrome
Lyme disease
Lymphoma
Macrophagic myofasciitis (MMF)
ME
Meningitis
Meningoencephalitis
Miscarriage
Mitichondrial Disorder
Mumps
Munchausen's
MS
Myasthenia gravis
Myocarditis
Narcolepsy
Nervous system Neurological
Obesity
Optic Neuritis
Orchitis
Osteoporosis
Otitis Media
Pancreatitis
Pancytopenia
Peanut Allergy
Pericarditis
Panniculitis
Parkinsonism
Pneumonia
Polio
Renal
Respiratory
Sarcomas (feline)
Scleroderma
Seizures
Serum Sickness
Shaken Baby Syndrome
Shingles
Sinusitis
Skin disorders
Smallpox
Spanish Flu
SSPE
Sterilisation
Stevens-Johnson syndrome
Sudden death
Syphilis
TB
Tetanus
Thrombocytopenia purpura
Tonsillitis
Tourette's Syndrome
Transverse myelitis
Typhoid
Uveitis
Vaccinia
Vasculitis
Vasculomyelinopathy
Violent Behaviour
Whooping cough

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
teacozy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-04-2014, 12:53 AM
 
prosciencemum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,828
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Wow! I can understand the anger about public health messages on vaccines among people who genuinely believe all those are caused by vaccines!
prosciencemum is offline  
Old 07-04-2014, 06:28 AM
 
emmy526's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,666
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
I was going to say hand foot and mouth disease...but then i saw this
Quote:
Coxsackieviruses are part of the enterovirus family of viruses (which also includes polioviruses and hepatitis A virus) that live in the human digestive tract.
http://kidshealth.org/parent/infecti...coxsackie.html
emmy526 is online now  
Old 07-04-2014, 07:49 AM
 
kathymuggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,226
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 227 Post(s)
I started to respond to this list the first day, and then thought twice. Maybe I am cynical, but I cannot shake the idea that responses might be mocked heavily. MDC is very quiet at the moment - there are only two pro-vaxxers posting currently, and both were (IMHO) a tad snarky with someone who said they thought Down Syndrome might be connected to vaccines. I don't doubt it would have been a lot worse if more vaxxers had been playing.

I will say that while I don't think vaccines contribute to Down Syndrome at this moment, that could change if solid evidence were presented. There is a lot of grey zone between absolutely contributes and absolutely does not contribute. I try not to have an overly closed or overly open mind. Note how I said contribute (italics above) as opposed to "cause." PSA for lurkers and newbies: Cause is a very difficult concept to prove. A brief overview of how cause is determined: http://meds.queensu.ca/medicine/obgy..._causation.htm

I prefer words like "may contribute" or "may trigger." Good luck picking on those words, lol. (note: this is not a challenge)

I will also say that "may contribute" is often enough for me as a parent, although I understand why it is not enough for policy makers.

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

kathymuggle is online now  
Old 07-04-2014, 08:16 AM
 
kathymuggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,226
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 227 Post(s)
I think there are two questions we need to ask ourselves when we look at the list:

1. Could vaccines contribute to the issue? How weak or strong is the evidence? There is a lot of evidence vaccines contribute to seizures, for example, and to the best of my knowledge, none they contribute to hair loss.

If yes, then:

2. What weight does vaccination have with this issue? Do I think vaccines could trigger an auto-immune flare-up? Sure. Do I think most flare-ups are caused by vaccines - not at all. In general: I think it can be very difficult to determine what part, percentage wise, vaccines play in the development of a health issue.

I will also add that there are contributing factors to health issues you can control - and those you can't. Vaccines fall under those you can.

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...


Last edited by kathymuggle; 07-04-2014 at 12:05 PM.
kathymuggle is online now  
Old 07-04-2014, 12:36 PM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 6,564
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
There is an interesting parallel to all this with the question of lead in the environment, especially in paint.

For quite a while, there was a general sense that lead was only a problem with a big dose and that it was the parent's responsibility to protect their child from eating lead paint bits.

Eventually, due entirely to a small number of brave and persistent scientists who were brutally attacked, it became clear that even a small exposure to lead was very dangerous, that exposure could happen just from breathing lead paint dust and that it is impossible to protect a baby, toddler or child who is living in an environment with loose lead paint around. The number of conditions that turned out to be influenced by exposure to lead went way up. http://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Families_...havior_45.aspx

Quote:
Even when exposed to small amounts of lead levels, children may appear inattentive, hyperactive and irritable. Children with greater lead levels may also have problems with learning and reading, delayed growth and hearing loss. At high levels, lead can cause permanent brain damage and even death.
How many children have been diagnosed with ADHD, for example, when they were really suffering from lead poisoning?

https://blogs.commons.georgetown.edu...nical-picture/

Quote:
Recent studies have shown that even low levels of lead exposure can also affect the renal system.
Quote:
Lead toxicity also affects the reproductive system in both genders.
Quote:
Recent studies also demonstrate that the cardiovascular system is just as affected by acute and chronic levels of lead as any other system in the body.
Quote:
Lead poisoning can also present clinically in adults or children in anemia.
Vaccines contain dozens of ingredients, have never been tested long-term, etc., etc. I would just state, sadly, that we have no idea at all of the possible effects of vaccinating generations of human beings.
Deborah is online now  
Old 07-04-2014, 12:39 PM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 6,564
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
To look at just one ingredient, aluminum salts, consider that this substance is included because, when injected, it causes an immune reaction. When ingested, there is no detectable immune reaction. Do we know if it is a good idea to provoke immune reactions via injecting aluminum salts? Any idea of the long-term effects?

Just ran into this article on the problem of aluminum in the environment and its use in medicines http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...70138588,d.cWc

I also agree with kathymuggle on the use of the word "cause".

Last edited by Deborah; 07-04-2014 at 12:55 PM.
Deborah is online now  
Old 07-04-2014, 01:15 PM
 
samaxtics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 666
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Asbestos also has parallels.
The time between initial exposure and lung cancer occurring is about 15 years whilst mesothelioma can be 30 years or more.

I believe the Polings were compensated for seizures that started 6 years after the vaccines.

I think it would be folly to automatically rule out conditions (especially auto-immune conditions) because they don't happen immediately after vaccination.
(I realize this hasn't been brought up by anyone.)
samaxtics is online now  
Old 07-04-2014, 02:12 PM
 
crazyms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Way down south
Posts: 1,190
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
I think there are two questions we need to ask ourselves when we look at the list:

1. Could vaccines contribute to the issue? How weak or strong is the evidence? There is a lot of evidence vaccines contribute to seizures, for example, and to the best of my knowledge, none they contribute to hair loss.

If yes, then:

2. What weight does vaccination have with this issue? Do I think vaccines could trigger an auto-immune flare-up? Sure. Do I think most flare-ups are caused by vaccines - not at all. In general: I think it can be very difficult to determine what part, percentage wise, vaccines play in the development of a health issue.

I will also add that there are contributing factors to health issues you can control - and those you can't. Vaccines fall under those you can.
This! I can see that vaccines could be contributing to many issues but the question is often how much. I think it depends on the particular condition. Some I think could be caused mostly by vaccines while others I think the vaccine may have been a factor but not necessarily a large one if that makes sense. Things like diabetes: I was concerned about vaccines and their link to increasing diabetes but this was a major concern for me especially with ds because dh's family has a large history of autoimmune diabetes. DS also got two enteroviruses in the first 6 mos that I found could increase his chances of getting autoimmune diabetes. Adding in vaccines would just be another factor to increase his chances so it was a major concern. If it wasn't for the first two issues though I'm not sure how much the vaccines would have concerned me (over the diabetes aspect at least). There are other issues such as autism that I do believe the vaccines are likely a major contributor to though. I really think it just depends.
crazyms is offline  
Old 07-04-2014, 08:54 PM
 
Taximom5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,314
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
It seems awfully arrogant to assume that vaccines couldn't possibly play a causal role in every single condition on that list, when there is some evidence that vaccines do cause many on that list. Just to give a few examples,narcolepsy is recognized as being caused by the flu vaccine used in Europe and Australia, ADEM and arthritis are admitted by Merck to be caused by the MMR vaccine, and Guillain-Barre syndrome is a recognized adverse effect of the flu shot. There are many more examples I can give, but I find myself wondering why teacozy would post this list in a way that seems to invite controversy, and seems to imply that suspecting vaccines of a long list of adverse effects is mock-worthy.
Taximom5 is online now  
Old 07-13-2014, 07:29 AM
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 383
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Hangnail. I just googled "vaccines cause hangnail" in quotes and I got no hits.

That is the only condition I can find where someone is not claiming it's caused by vaccines.

Google "vaccines cause X" (in quotes) and you will typically find plenty of sites claiming that vaccines cause X no matter what you substitute for X.

Hangnail in the only medical condition I can find that fails this google test. Can anyone find another?
tadamsmar is offline  
Old 07-13-2014, 07:46 AM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 6,564
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Well, I'm so relieved. Vaccines are not linked to hangnails. Whew!
Deborah is online now  
Old 07-13-2014, 07:48 AM
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 383
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Ingrown toenails and ingrown hair. There are a few hits on ingrown hair, but they don't seem to lead to any actual claims.

Nobody has claimed that vaccines cause Peyronie's disease on a site indexed by Google so far.
tadamsmar is offline  
Old 07-13-2014, 10:14 AM
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 383
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
The situation with heart attacks is interesting. There are sites that say vaccines cause heart attacks. There are sites that say flu vaccine prevents heart attacks. And there are sites that say there will soon be a vaccine for heart attack prevention. And, Mercola has a web page saying the notion of a heart attack vaccine is nonsense and ridiculous.

tadamsmar is offline  
Old 07-13-2014, 03:48 PM
 
Taximom5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,314
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Tadamsmar, "hangnail" wasn't on the OP's list. Neither was "heart attacks." Did you want to actually discuss the possibility that vaccines might contribute to several unwanted medical conditions, or do you just want to mock those who are concerned about vaccine safety?
Taximom5 is online now  
Old 07-14-2014, 01:46 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 383
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post
Tadamsmar, "hangnail" wasn't on the OP's list. Neither was "heart attacks." Did you want to actually discuss the possibility that vaccines might contribute to several unwanted medical conditions, or do you just want to mock those who are concerned about vaccine safety?
The title of the OP is the question "What conditions are NOT caused by vaccines?"

So, Taximom5, in response to an OP, am I NOT suppose to discuss answers to the question posed in the title of an OP?

The list does include "Heart". They claim vaccines cause heart

I am pointing out the absurdities that can arise from DIY research with Google.

I am not mocking anyone, I am deadly serious when I say it is hard to find a condition that is not caused by vaccines according to some website indexed by Google.

Last edited by tadamsmar; 07-14-2014 at 02:11 PM.
tadamsmar is offline  
Old 07-14-2014, 09:27 PM
 
Taximom5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,314
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Tadamsmar, the question posed in the OP was:
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
Do you agree/disagree with this list?
Rather than answer the question, it would seem that you are just making fun of those who question vaccine safety. There are many conditions on that list that are acknowledged by mainstream science to be adverse reactions to vaccines, but you chose to ignore them and make snide references to hangnails instead.

Perhaps you should be asking teacozy what she meant by "heart," since she posted the list, with no citation or link to another site. There are some instances of vaccine-induced cardiac complications associated with vaccination, perhaps you're planning on mocking the doctors who reported them?
Taximom5 is online now  
Old 07-15-2014, 06:36 AM
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 383
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post
Tadamsmar, the question posed in the OP was:


Rather than answer the question, it would seem that you are just making fun of those who question vaccine safety. There are many conditions on that list that are acknowledged by mainstream science to be adverse reactions to vaccines, but you chose to ignore them and make snide references to hangnails instead.

Perhaps you should be asking teacozy what she meant by "heart," since she posted the list, with no citation or link to another site. There are some instances of vaccine-induced cardiac complications associated with vaccination, perhaps you're planning on mocking the doctors who reported them?
The OP contained more than one question. I answered one of the other questions, rather than answer the question that you are pointing out. I am not ignoring the list, you were ignoring the fact that the list contained heart conditions.

I have no plans whatsoever to mock anyone.

The CDC reports an association between small pox vaccine and heart attack in some. I guess you think I am mocking the CDC. I am not mocking the CDC.
tadamsmar is offline  
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off