Safety of pertussis vaccination in pregnant women in UK - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 150Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#31 of 94 Old 07-12-2014, 08:06 AM
 
samaxtics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 578
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
Where is her published peer reviewed research? Putting her name into pubmed comes up with ZERO results.

Reminds me of this meme that was going around a couple weeks ago. Basically, the same person telling you that pertussis isn't a big deal if you use vitamin C is the same person who doesn't think smallpox or polio was a big deal. So, you know, take from that what you will.

Teacozy, did you search PubMed for Suzanne Humphries yourself, or did you read somewhere else that there are ZERO results. Because that isn't true. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?...anne+Humphries


Normally I'd ask you for the original source for the photo, but no worries I took care of that.

The photo is of men lined up for the "Bracero Program" in which "Mexican citizens contracted for employment on U.S. farms as nonimmigrant guest workers".

Yes, part of being processed was that they had to be vaccinated for smallpox, but I would hardly look at it as voluntary.

Who ever created that meme was being disingenuous to infer that the reason for the lineup was for smallpox. I could show you photos of lineups of people getting the flu shot here last winter. But the reality is that the vast majority of citizens (and many healthcare workers) still don't get the flu shot. But you will get fabulous photos of lineups when there is much fear propagated in the news about this season's influenza and only supply a few locations to administer flu shots. The effect of this of course is to get more citizens irrationally panicked and increase demand for a fairly useless product.

Anyhow, for those that are interested in putting Suzanne Humphries' words about smallpox into context (although the quote on the meme is not in this article) you can read it here: http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/20...-humphries-md/


If you or anyone else would like to read about the real reason the Mexican men were lined up in that photo, you can read about it here:
http://are.berkeley.edu/~howardrr/pu...3/gallery.html
samaxtics is online now  
#32 of 94 Old 07-12-2014, 10:48 AM
 
beckybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The Shattered Paradigm
Posts: 1,950
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Thank you Samaxtics, for clearing up any confusion.
Mirzam, applejuice and samaxtics like this.

 
 
 "Medical propaganda ops are, in the long run, the most dangerous. They appear to be neutral. They wave no political banners. They claim to be science. For these reasons, they can accomplish the goals of overt fascism without arousing suspicion.” — Jon Rappoport
 
 
 
beckybird is online now  
#33 of 94 Old 07-12-2014, 10:48 AM
 
prosciencemum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,799
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Kathy - so your actually worried about education of the risks and benefits of vaccination during pregnancy rather than the vaccination itself? I'd get behind a drive to educate about vaccination beyond googling and going to NVIC. That's for sure. Maybe we just found something we can agree on!
prosciencemum is online now  
#34 of 94 Old 07-12-2014, 11:43 AM
 
Taximom5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,239
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post
Choice is a good thing. I am not aware of any laws forcing pregnant women to vaccinate..... So thank goodness for that.

.
But pregnant health care workers in the US ARE forced to vaccinate during pregnancy, or lose their jobs.

Here in the US, we are losing our ability to choose. Can't go to daycare, can't go to school, can't go to work.

How do you balance "choice is a good thing" with "the only choices are vaccination or go on welfare?" or "the only choices are vaccination or have your baby taken from you?"
Taximom5 is online now  
#35 of 94 Old 07-12-2014, 11:51 AM
 
kathymuggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,155
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 193 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post
Kathy - so your actually worried about education of the risks and benefits of vaccination during pregnancy rather than the vaccination itself? I'd get behind a drive to educate about vaccination beyond googling and going to NVIC. That's for sure. Maybe we just found something we can agree on!
Oh, I am sure there is lots we agree on.

Breast is best, summer is good, babies are precious…. chocolate (yum!) wine (also good - red, please)

As per vaccination, I am undecided on the safety of vaccination (which is enough for me to be non-vax) but I am firmly in favour of informed consent and decent information upon which to base a decision. Where others are concerned I am aboslutely more interested in informed consent and decent information than convincing anyone one way or the other.

As per NVIC: I think it is a decent place to get your toes wet on the non-vax perspective and they cite their sources - but they are clearly non-vax and *I* do not think it is possible for any biased site to get around cherry picking articles and studies that promote their viewpoint. I do not advocate only reading them at all.

As per google - it is a search engine - that is all. It is what you do with it that counts.

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...


Last edited by kathymuggle; 07-12-2014 at 06:54 PM.
kathymuggle is online now  
#36 of 94 Old 07-12-2014, 12:25 PM
 
prosciencemum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,799
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
You're quite right. The reason I'm here is I probably agree with most of your views on parenting. And chocolate is definitely yummy.

I also agree on Google - just a search engine!

And I totally agree on informed consent. I just think the risk benefit on vaccination is so obvious and unequivocal that it's hard for me to understand how people come to a different opinion.
prosciencemum is online now  
#37 of 94 Old 07-12-2014, 12:36 PM
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,395
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 106 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

And I totally agree on informed consent. I just think the risk benefit on vaccination is so obvious and unequivocal that it's hard for me to understand how people come to a different opinion.
IMO- on ANY issue when one is so unequivocal that clouds judgment and does not allow there to be understanding (and compassion, empathy, etc) of the other's point of view
applejuice likes this.

 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
#38 of 94 Old 07-12-2014, 01:25 PM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,073
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post
I'd get behind a drive to educate about vaccination beyond googling and going to NVIC.
What specifically do you find objectionable about what NVIC says about pertussis vaccination during pregnancy?

http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-New...e-.aspx#_edn19

Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
They currently recommend pregnant women get tdap during pregnancy. Recommending is different from offering. Recommending without studies to back up what they are recommending is wrong. At a minimum, they need to let women know that no long term human studies have been done, and few short term studies. I doubt that routinely happens.
This. "Pro-science" people need to be demanding some science. BEFORE medical recommendations are issued.
applejuice and samaxtics like this.

In God we trust; all others must show data. selectivevax.gifsurf.gifteapot2.GIFintactivist.gif
Turquesa is offline  
#39 of 94 Old 07-12-2014, 01:40 PM
 
Taximom5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,239
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post
. I just think the risk benefit on vaccination is so obvious and unequivocal that it's hard for me to understand how people come to a different opinion.
Apparently, it's hard for you to understand that the risk benefit on vaccination is much more poorly understood than you think it is, and that adverse reactions are often unrecognized and unreported--which means that we don't KNOW the risk benefit.

It's funny, but if you ask someone who has had an adverse reaction if they think it was worth the risk, they will not only tell you that it wasn't, but they feel very strongly that if they had known that they were at risk for such a reaction, they would not have agreed to vaccination in the first place.

Yet the people whose children have not had adverse reactions continue to insist that it's worth it, it's very little risk, etc., which is quite a slap in the face to those who have seen such reactions.
Taximom5 is online now  
#40 of 94 Old 07-12-2014, 02:57 PM
 
samaxtics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 578
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post
You're quite right. The reason I'm here is I probably agree with most of your views on parenting. And chocolate is definitely yummy.

I also agree on Google - just a search engine!

And I totally agree on informed consent. I just think the risk benefit on vaccination is so obvious and unequivocal that it's hard for me to understand how people come to a different opinion.
Well I for one am quite thankful for Google, especially Google Images in this particular thread. Great resource for separating fact from propaganda.

And I'd be pretty sure that your risk/benefit analysis does not take into consideration my family (or anyone else's) history with disease or vaccination. Or our socio-economic status. Or our access to all provisions of healthcare.
samaxtics is online now  
#41 of 94 Old 07-12-2014, 05:04 PM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 6,665
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
Has anyone else actually read Suzanne Humphries book, Dissolving Illusions (co-author Roman Bystrianyk)?

I bought it and read it. There is a lot of interesting information and all of it is well documented. Comparing the quality of the references with the quality of the references I've found on a number of pro-vaccine sites, Suzanne Humphries goes directly to the original literature, not secondary sources; where I've followed up on the references they are actually applicable to the point, and the history she unearths is startling.
Mirzam, applejuice and beckybird like this.
Deborah is online now  
#42 of 94 Old 07-12-2014, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 1,530
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 394 Post(s)
Don't have much time to reply today....

"Suzanne Humphries vaccine" is how I searched pubmed and that search comes up with zero results. This is the vaccine forum and the topic was vaccines, I thought that was implied that I meant she has done zero research on vaccines. I wonder why she hasn't done a single study on the topic....?

In contrast, putting in "Paul Offit vaccine" comes up with two pages of results.

Did you not read the meme? It gave FOUR additional links to pictures of people lining up to get the smallpox vaccine. The picture they used is of Mexican men lined up for the smallpox vaccine, which is what it said the picture was of. Suzanne Humphries is 100% wrong on that point.

This is the video for anyone interested. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efto1LpWkKw

The quote in question is at around 2:25.

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson 
teacozy is offline  
#43 of 94 Old 07-12-2014, 07:08 PM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 6,665
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
That isn't how you search pubmed.
applejuice likes this.
Deborah is online now  
#44 of 94 Old 07-12-2014, 07:36 PM
 
samaxtics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 578
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
Don't have much time to reply today....

"Suzanne Humphries vaccine" is how I searched pubmed and that search comes up with zero results. This is the vaccine forum and the topic was vaccines, I thought that was implied that I meant she has done zero research on vaccines. I wonder why she hasn't done a single study on the topic....?

Has Dorit, Seth, or Emily (to name a few in a long list of people writing about vaccination from the pro-stance) done a single study on the topic? Doesn't stop them from writing about the issues and Dorit and Seth don't have medical backgrounds from what I recall. Not sure about Emily.

In contrast, putting in "Paul Offit vaccine" comes up with two pages of results.

Wouldn't you expect that from someone who is a professor of vaccinology? However, I keyed in "PO and psychology and psychiatry", and nothing came up. Doesn't stop him from un/diagnosing people in public though.

Did you not read the meme? It gave FOUR additional links to pictures of people lining up to get the smallpox vaccine. The picture they used is of Mexican men lined up for the smallpox vaccine, which is what it said the picture was of. Suzanne Humphries is 100% wrong on that point.

How is she wrong in regards to the photo of the Mexican men? Once again the Mexican men were there for a job; smallpox vaccination was a condition of getting it. They weren't there because they saw people dropping dead of smallpox. All that proves is when people need the income (whether they are migrant farm workers or healthcare workers) or need mosquito nets, many will submit to conditions attached to it.
I can't post my comment because it is too short (as I wrote within the quote) so this is filler.
Mirzam, Deborah, serenbat and 2 others like this.
samaxtics is online now  
#45 of 94 Old 07-12-2014, 07:46 PM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 6,665
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
I would be happy to discuss any of Paul Offit's articles which are available free full-text. I think science needs to be read and discussed.
Deborah is online now  
#46 of 94 Old 07-13-2014, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 1,530
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 394 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
That isn't how you search pubmed.

Ummm what? It's a completely legitimate way to search pubmed...

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/bsd/viewlet/s...d_subject.html

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson 
teacozy is offline  
#47 of 94 Old 07-13-2014, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 1,530
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 394 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by samaxtics View Post
I can't post my comment because it is too short (as I wrote within the quote) so this is filler.
I can't copy and paste because of the way you replied, so this may not read well.

They aren't experts either, and they make that very clear.

If a person thinks the consensus that cigarettes are bad for your health and increase your chance of getting cancer is wrong, well they better provide some darn good evidence for that claim.

As for the meme, I disagree. She tried (and failed) to make the point that since people didn't line up in droves to get the smallpox vaccine that meant that A) Smallpox wasn't as big of a deal as people make it out to be and B) People didn't think the vaccine "saved" people or was effective.

Well the opposite can be applied to that logic as well. Do you really think people in those pictures (including the Mexican men) would have lined up willingly to get a vaccine for a disease they thought was no big deal if they heard of and saw people having horrific reactions and dying from it? Of course not. I mean, we have people today quitting their nursing jobs and salaries of 60k+ a year because they don't want the flu vaccine, which is an incredibly safe vaccine. The smallpox vaccine is objectively more dangerous than any vaccine currently on the market. For example, for most vaccines we use today the risk of a serious allergic reaction is around 1 in a million. For the smallpox vaccine that risk is 1000 per million. 14-52 per million will get encephalitis from the smallpox vaccine and 14-52 per million will get vaccinia necrosum, or "ongoing infection of skin with tissue destruction frequently leading to death." http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/smallpox...acc-public.asp

People wouldn't be lining up in droves to get that vaccine if they didn't think it worked or thought smallpox was a harmless virus.

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson 
teacozy is offline  
#48 of 94 Old 07-13-2014, 10:59 AM
 
Mirzam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: On The Path Of The Truth Seeker
Posts: 7,513
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
People wouldn't be lining up in droves to get that vaccine if they didn't think it worked or thought smallpox was a harmless virus.
Lemmings?


No but it might make them victims of perception management.

Edward Bernays
applejuice, serenbat and beckybird like this.

Rainbow.giftstillheart.gifsmile.gif

 

"If you find from your own experience that something is a fact and it contradicts what some authority has written down, then you must abandon the authority and base your reasoning on your own findings"~ Leonardo da Vinci


Last edited by Mirzam; 07-13-2014 at 11:20 AM. Reason: Added link to Edward Bernays, the father of PR and perception management.
Mirzam is online now  
#49 of 94 Old 07-13-2014, 11:05 AM
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,395
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 106 Post(s)
I think there must be some GREAT reasons why health care workers are leaving 60K jobs & why health care workers are not lining up in droves either!



ETA- those of higher education and income!

Last edited by serenbat; 07-13-2014 at 01:09 PM.
serenbat is offline  
#50 of 94 Old 07-13-2014, 11:21 AM
 
samaxtics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 578
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Quote:
If a person thinks the consensus that cigarettes are bad for your health and increase your chance of getting cancer is wrong, well they better provide some darn good evidence for that claim.
And when a doctor claims infants could withstand 10,000-100,000 vaccines at one time......he gets a big fat pass by the pro-vax community.
samaxtics is online now  
#51 of 94 Old 07-13-2014, 01:35 PM
 
prosciencemum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,799
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
That must be the most misquoted claim in this debate!

The comment was that infants naturally face 10,000-100,000 different triggers for their immune system with no problem. So we shouldn't worry about the weakened viruses in vaccines "overloading" their systems.
prosciencemum is online now  
#52 of 94 Old 07-13-2014, 01:51 PM
 
Mirzam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: On The Path Of The Truth Seeker
Posts: 7,513
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
As co-author of "Addressing Parents’ Concerns: Do Multiple Vaccines Overwhelm or Weaken the Infant’s Immune System?” in the Journal of American Academy of Pediatricians, Paul Offit stated, that each infant would have the theoretical capacity to respond to about 10,000 vaccines at any one time.

The interesting thing is this statement showed up in the Feburay 2012 National Health Information Leaflet “MMR THE FACTS”: “A baby could respond safely and effectively to around 10,000 vaccines at any one time. So the baby’s immune system can and does easily cope with the MMR vaccine.”

You can read what happened when journalist Sandy Lunoe emailed the UK Dept of Health asking that the statement be deleted as it is not documented, it is incorrect and misleading.

http://vactruth.com/2012/04/16/10000-crazy-vaccines/

Rainbow.giftstillheart.gifsmile.gif

 

"If you find from your own experience that something is a fact and it contradicts what some authority has written down, then you must abandon the authority and base your reasoning on your own findings"~ Leonardo da Vinci

Mirzam is online now  
#53 of 94 Old 07-13-2014, 04:13 PM
 
samaxtics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 578
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post
That must be the most misquoted claim in this debate!

The comment was that infants naturally face 10,000-100,000 different triggers for their immune system with no problem. So we shouldn't worry about the weakened viruses in vaccines "overloading" their systems.
I believe in the original paper "antigens" is used but he is quoted in several interviews as saying "vaccines".

http://web.archive.org/web/200809050...Infants/Health

Ginger Taylor of Adventures in Autism even emailed Offit to get validation of the 100,000 vaccines quote and he came back saying 100,000 is probably conservative.
http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.c...g-updated.html


Will you concede that Offit himself is the origin of the 10,000-100,000 VACCINE claim prosciencemum?
applejuice, serenbat and beckybird like this.
samaxtics is online now  
#54 of 94 Old 07-13-2014, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 1,530
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 394 Post(s)
So I just saw that Skeptical Raptor covered this same study today on his blog.

I haven't had a chance to really look at the numbers yet but he pointed out that the risk of stillbirth was actually 30% LOWER in women who got the pertussis vaccine.

"In fact, there was a reduced risk (approximately 31% less) of still birth in mothers who were vaccinated, but statistically, that would be stretching the interpretation of the results way beyond reasonableness. Moreover, I cannot see a plausible mechanism where the vaccine would have a protective effect against stillbirth. But still, in such a large cohort, it’s comforting to know the risk is potentially lower."

He makes the great point that if the numbers were statistically weak but showed the opposite, that mothers who received the vaccine were 30% more likely to have a stillbirth, non vaxxers would be "trumpeting" the numbers to their advantage

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson 
teacozy is offline  
#55 of 94 Old 07-13-2014, 04:48 PM
 
kathymuggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,155
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 193 Post(s)
"In total, 17 560 (87%) vaccinated pregnant women had ≥28 days’ follow-up data after their vaccination record. Five had a recorded stillbirth within two weeks of vaccination. From the ONS data on the rate of live births and stillbirths by gestational age, and using the distribution of gestational age at vaccination estimated from the CPRD, we would expect 7.2 stillbirths in this time frame."

5 stillbirth out of an expected 7. It could very well be coincidence. Those numbers are small.

I would also be curious to know if the vaccinated women women were more likely to have regular maternity care. Regular maternity care recue stillbirth (say if IUGR was noted). That is just speculation though.
applejuice and beckybird like this.

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

kathymuggle is online now  
#56 of 94 Old 07-13-2014, 04:50 PM
 
kathymuggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,155
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 193 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post

He makes the great point that if the numbers were statistically weak but showed the opposite, that mothers who received the vaccine were 30% more likely to have a stillbirth, non vaxxers would be "trumpeting" the numbers to their advantage
As he is doing, at least to some degree
beckybird likes this.

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

kathymuggle is online now  
#57 of 94 Old 07-13-2014, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 1,530
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 394 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
As he is doing, at least to some degree

I wouldn't call his statement that trying to interpret it that way would be "stretching the interpretation of the results way beyond reasonableness" along with saying that he sees no plausible mechanism for which the vaccine would protect against stillbirth as him "trumpeting" the numbers to his advantage.

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson 
teacozy is offline  
#58 of 94 Old 07-13-2014, 07:09 PM
 
kathymuggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,155
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 193 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
So I just saw that Skeptical Raptor covered this same study today on his blog….

"But still, in such a large cohort, it’s comforting to know the risk is potentially lower."

He makes the great point that if the numbers were statistically weak but showed the opposite, that mothers who received the vaccine were 30% more likely to have a stillbirth, non vaxxers would be "trumpeting" the numbers to their advantage
Hmm. Bolding is mine. I would the say the bolded is somewhat trumpetting. He devoted a piece to it, no?

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...


Last edited by kathymuggle; 07-13-2014 at 07:50 PM.
kathymuggle is online now  
#59 of 94 Old 07-13-2014, 07:15 PM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 6,665
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
I thought that was teacozy bolding?
Deborah is online now  
#60 of 94 Old 07-13-2014, 07:50 PM
 
kathymuggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,155
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 193 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
I thought that was teacozy bolding?
No. I will edit my post to clarify
Deborah likes this.

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

kathymuggle is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off