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#151 of 167 Old 07-25-2014, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Could you? YES If I gave my son the flumist/flu shot and tested him and it showed he was in the X percent who it wasn't effective for would a pediatrician give it to him again that same year? Would a pediatrician give an additional 3rd MMR to my child? Additional polio or hib vaccines that go beyond the amount on the CDC schedule? Is there any evidence that 2 flu vaccines or additional polio vaccines provide significantly better immunity? I seriously doubt they would. They have done it. They would be opening themselves up to a huge can of liability worms if they did so and something went wrong.

I thought you were aware that the CDC is recommending a "booster" polio currently for those traveling to certain countries. - Depending on the child's age and what type they have been given and proof it would determine what is needed. For adults they are clearly saying "booster".
http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/diseases/poliomyelitits
http://www.aafp.org/news/health-of-t...virusupdt.html
http://emergency.cdc.gov/han/han00362.asp
Because of the substantial progress of the polio eradication initiative in 2012–2013, and in order to harmonize CDC recommendations with WHO recommendations, CDC now recommends an adult inactivated poliovirus (IPV) booster dose for travelers to countries with active WPV circulation.



Ah YES! They have already given a 3rd dose of MMR to children.

http://contemporarypediatrics.modern...ne-halts-mumps
An extra dose of measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine given to previously vaccinated children during an intense outbreak of mumps appears to have controlled the spread of the disease.
A third-dose strategy for mumps-containing vaccine would be an effective means of controlling future outbreaks in settings with preexisting, high-but-waning 2-dose coverage, the researchers conclude, but they also point out that the outbreak described in the study could have been peaking before the intervention began. Therefore, their findings do not support routine use of a third dose of mumps vaccine in national vaccination programs.

That does not mean it is not currently happening with the outbreaks going on now in the US, simply means we have not yet been told if they are or are not doing so this time.

http://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-a...-Outbreak.aspx
More about the 3rd does of MMR (for children, not pregnant women) http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/19/9/13-0299_intro
http://www.medscape.org/viewarticle/773705


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I don't agree that it's hypocritical.

Getting a second MMR when you likely won't need it is not comparable (for the purpose of this discussion) to the choice of not getting the MMR at all. Getting a second unnecessary dose is not putting others or the public at increased risk of disease.

I strongly disagree!

What it does DO is put the "heard" that the PRO vaccine side "claims" they care about in jeopardy.

If you do not have immunity to what ever VPD you have been vaccinated for, you are directly putting others in an even worse situation compared to a un-vaccinated child! The un-vaccinated child is more likely to be removed from a school setting, not the vaccinated child who does not have immunity.


IF you do not know the immunity status you put your child in much greater danger because symptoms of the disease are harder to diagnoses because the "assumption" is made they have been vaccinated. It puts the "heard" in danger because the child would not have immunity is around others and can opening spread the VPD. Why does the PRO side support doing this if one really says they "care" about others?

The un-vaccicated child's parents know what they child does and does not have immunity to by what they have or have not had.

Simply allowing vaccine status to mean assumed immunity is not accurate.

Again, if protection of the "heard" is what is REALLY at stake, not know immunity status effects far more. The PRO side can't claim they care when they have no idea who really is not immune.

 

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#152 of 167 Old 07-26-2014, 10:02 AM
 
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Don't have much time to respond today, but Serenbat I quoted the statement that the ACIP does not currently recommend a third MMR dose for anyone except pregnant women. And they don't. There is insufficient data.

"Data are insufficient to recommend for or against the use of a third dose of MMR vaccine for mumps outbreak control. "


http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr6204a1.htm

Kind of puts a damper on the whole idea that the CDC likes to recommend additional vaccines/doses all willy nilly to make profit, though.

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#153 of 167 Old 07-26-2014, 10:08 AM
 
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No, I don't think the additional doses are just to make a profit. I think they are an attempt to cover up the failure of the first claims made for the vaccine. Lifelong immunity and all that. They depend on people not remembering way back to 1967 when the measles vaccine (the one that didn't cause atypical measles) was rolled out amidst wild claims that measles would be eliminated in one year.

But doubling the number of doses of a vaccine certainly doesn't hurt profits. See the chickenpox vaccine for a recent example.
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#154 of 167 Old 07-26-2014, 05:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Don't have much time to respond today, but Serenbat I quoted the statement that the ACIP does not currently recommend a third MMR dose for anyone except pregnant women. And they don't. There is insufficient data. That does not mean they did not do so or plan to do so again. Did you read the link I provided that stated that they did do a 3rd dose?

"Data are insufficient to recommend for or against the use of a third dose of MMR vaccine for mumps outbreak control. "


http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr6204a1.htm

Kind of puts a damper on the whole idea that the CDC likes to recommend additional vaccines/doses all willy nilly to make profit, though.
We were not talking about profit but if you want to keep on insisting there is no profit and going OT. But, there happens to be proof of it - the CDC has issued guidelines for giving that 3rd dose!

You said you were unaware, I made you aware, they did do a third dose in 2009 and now as of June they have guidelines. You still think they are not doing more of the polio?

Frankly there are some right now getting vaccines, if you don't have proof of vaccination (as many adults and some children do not) you re-due it. You honestly want to say NO one is getting a third dose ever???

Do you have proof they positively not going to do it?


Here is more from June of 2014 - http://aapnews.aappublications.org/c...5/6/4.extract#

It's hard to copy but it says guidelines have been issued by the CDC for giving the third dose-so they do plan to give it to certain individuals!

never say never!


See more at: http://secure.medicalletter.org/w142....3fc31JlB.dpuf
The CDC recommends considering a third dose of MMR vaccine for control of a mumps outbreak in a highly vaccinated population in a setting with intense exposure, high attack rates, and evidence of ongoing transmission

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/sur...t09-mumps.html

During mumps outbreaks, public health authorities may administer a third dose of MMR vaccine for specifically identified target populations.

Criteria to consider prior to administering a third dose in a target population for mumps outbreak control include:

high two-dose vaccination coverage (i.e., vaccination coverage >90%);
intense exposure settings likely to facilitate transmission (e.g., schools, colleges, correctional facilities, congregate living facilities) or healthcare settings;
high attack rates (i.e., >5 cases per 1,000 population); and evidence of ongoing transmission for at least two weeks in the target population (i.e., population with the high attack rates)
Additional data on the effectiveness and impact of a third dose of MMR vaccine for mumps outbreak control are needed to guide control strategies in future outbreaks. Authorities who decide to administer a third dose as part of mumps outbreak control are encouraged to collect data to evaluate the impact of the intervention.

 

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#155 of 167 Old 01-28-2015, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Just out of curiosity I googled blood draws vs vaccines and it looks like I'm not alone in preferring a shot. Of course this isn't a scientific study or anything, but it had nearly 800 responses.

70% said they would choose a shot over a blood draw.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/survey2290.htm
I bumping this along as I'm curious to know if those views still stand in light of Disney and the fact some who were partially and fully vaccinated still contracted measles.

 

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#156 of 167 Old 01-28-2015, 02:09 PM
 
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Titers...hungry for more info!

Thank you for directing me to this thread serenbat! I hope my question is relevant to this topic.


This thread provides good info on titers testing, which is something I am very interested in.


My 12dd received her first MMR vaccination. How long before she can get tested for immunity? If she is immune, I do not want to proceed with the second MMR (which would be in 4 weeks).


At the same time, I would like her to get tested for other immunity since she has not received any vaccinations (ie. varicella). We are researching what vaccines we will move forward with.


I am in So Cal, so measles is the hot topic for sure. I appreciate all the viewpoints, and respect other people's opinions. I have learned a great deal from both sides.
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#157 of 167 Old 01-28-2015, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you for directing me to this thread serenbat! I hope my question is relevant to this topic.


This thread provides good info on titers testing, which is something I am very interested in.


My 12dd received her first MMR vaccination. How long before she can get tested for immunity? If she is immune, I do not want to proceed with the second MMR (which would be in 4 weeks).


At the same time, I would like her to get tested for other immunity since she has not received any vaccinations (ie. varicella). We are researching what vaccines we will move forward with.


I am in So Cal, so measles is the hot topic for sure. I appreciate all the viewpoints, and respect other people's opinions. I have learned a great deal from both sides.


I'm not CA - "things may be different" but my understanding is at least 4 weeks you would need to wait from the 1st vaccine to test

I don't know that your insurance would pay only because giving another vaccine/booster what ever you want to call it, 2nd dose is cheaper and they (insurance) tend to want cheap - but that should not stop you from asking or having it done privately.

IF it was me, I would test and test and test and test - but I will not vaccinate, so this is a mute point.

What studies I have seen, many have been posted in the main Disney thread - there seems to be little retention (low level immunity) if let's say you do it at 8 months - they still want you to do it again at 12 months. But they do know that even doing it 12 months isn't a guarantee - now is it safe to wait, say 2 months (being at 14 months) test at that point past the "time it should take to acquire immunity" - ? it's hard to know how much difference if any it would make.........

what if you don't have immunity, so you would do the other dose NOW vs at age 3-5?

Why rush right now and not wait until the 3-5 year time frame?

My argument in this thread and in general is WHY not know. Seems a no brainer to me, but reading this thread you can see it's not what most PRO vac feel should be done.

I have seen in CA they are talking in the news quite a bit about titer testing.

Being a female, IF you are going to vaccinate - I would ask to see a study to show how effective (should she not show immunity after this first MMR) to see if you really want to do one in 4 weeks or if you want to wait to 3-5 years of age. I have not see a study.

Also because she is a female, I would do so a titer test again at puberty. NOT saying she is going to get pregnant but she certainly could have a friend(s) that might. IMO you should know if you are immune or not.

Generally (again I would LOVE to see the data on this!!!) what I know (this was also posted in the Disney thread) 1/3 of pregnant females are not immune. I can't find data that shows having yet ANOTHER dose post-partum really makes one immune at that age. Many moms even on here say they tests each pregnancy and are not immune.

IMO - as I say in this thread, I feel knowing, vs guessing is the "science" - but I don't vac. Not vaccing I do know my child's immunity vs a vaccinating parent that is guessing and hoping via no titer.


to add - if she shows no immunity (low) and you do another either now or at the 3 to 5 - I would test after the 2nd dose. IF still no immunity - GET a medical exemption! Vaccing and having NO immunity is exactly the same as not vaccine - the end result is the same! NO immunity.


I do hope some PRO vaccers chime in to help you.

 

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#158 of 167 Old 01-28-2015, 03:22 PM
 
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So titers can test for immunity to: varicella, measles, and pertussis?


My dd was exposed to chicken pox several years ago. Our friends children were vaccinated for CP but still contracted it, though it was definitely a mild case. Our children played together daily, with neither of us knowing it was CP. MY dd showed show slight symptoms, so there could be a chance of natural immunity.


Since I'm going to push for the test, I might as well get everything tested that I can.


The topic of titers testing is so interesting! I can see both sides of why or why not to do it, but I'll take advantage of the test.


Has there been any debate on whether natural immunity or vaccine immunity is the same?
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#159 of 167 Old 01-28-2015, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So titers can test for immunity to: varicella, measles, and pertussis?


My dd was exposed to chicken pox several years ago. Our friends children were vaccinated for CP but still contracted it, though it was definitely a mild case. Our children played together daily, with neither of us knowing it was CP. MY dd showed show slight symptoms, so there could be a chance of natural immunity.


Since I'm going to push for the test, I might as well get everything tested that I can.


The topic of titers testing is so interesting! I can see both sides of why or why not to do it, but I'll take advantage of the test.


Has there been any debate on whether natural immunity or vaccine immunity is the same?

I'm sorry 12 YEARS or 12 months?

You can do MMR (all 3 can be tested) - Frankly if I was doing this, sorry at age 12 - I would like a full work up, titer for all! - that you might actually get paid by your insurance. Low iron at that age is also IMO good to know.

You can get CP (eve non-vaccine induced) more than once.

Ther is lots of talk on the benefits of natural vs vaccine induced in the INV (I'm not vaccine) section - I would ask there.

Here this might help you - http://www.bloodtiters.com

 

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#160 of 167 Old 01-28-2015, 03:42 PM
 
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Thank you again serenbat!
Yes, she is 12 yrs old.
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#161 of 167 Old 01-28-2015, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you again serenbat!
Yes, she is 12 yrs old.
well at 12 I would do a full blood work up just because that might work best to know and to get it paid and once and you know - your MD might even want that too

You can say while we are doing this I want it ALL - test away.

I would want to know. Still with the CP, you have no guarantee even with wild, it's rare but it can and does happen.

As I have stated my biggie is how much we do not know! We only test pregnant women as routine not the baby daddies - why, because we are sooooo sure it just can't be!

I read about another man, who was vaccinated they thing has measles - http://www.fresnobee.com/2015/01/28/...ials.html?rh=1

How many more are like this? And no one can't alway produce their medical records on the spot and years after the fact. My tiny vaccine record was record by the MD directly in my baby book. Does that mean I need an MMR - hell no! I never had one, no record of M M or R and guess what, my titers test immunity for all three!

there are sooooo many we have no clue about - actually a recently study (again I posted in in the Disney thread) stated if the mom had natural immunity to measles the vaccine is not as effective in their children - so how many that actually did have measles had their children vaccinated and are not immune - so what are we going to do - test everyone now??

 

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#162 of 167 Old 01-29-2015, 09:02 PM
 
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So titers can test for immunity to: varicella, measles, and pertussis?


My dd was exposed to chicken pox several years ago. Our friends children were vaccinated for CP but still contracted it, though it was definitely a mild case. Our children played together daily, with neither of us knowing it was CP. MY dd showed show slight symptoms, so there could be a chance of natural immunity.


Since I'm going to push for the test, I might as well get everything tested that I can.


The topic of titers testing is so interesting! I can see both sides of why or why not to do it, but I'll take advantage of the test.


Has there been any debate on whether natural immunity or vaccine immunity is the same?
I guess I'm just a run of the mill pro-vaxxer and I'd go ahead and get the booster in 4 weeks, but your plan to do titers sounds like a good idea, too. Your predicament seems to be a consequence of having a number of great options. That's a good thing.

I would plan to get the booster at some point down the road, even with good titers now, to cover the possibility of waning immunity especially for the mumps and rubella portion.
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#163 of 167 Old 01-30-2015, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Don't have much time to respond today, but Serenbat I quoted the statement that the ACIP does not currently recommend a third MMR dose for anyone except pregnant women. And they don't. There is insufficient data.

"Data are insufficient to recommend for or against the use of a third dose of MMR vaccine for mumps outbreak control. "


http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr6204a1.htm

Kind of puts a damper on the whole idea that the CDC likes to recommend additional vaccines/doses all willy nilly to make profit, though.
UP-date - http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/...omments-module Call it a booster or a 3rd or look at giving it to those under 12 months (that one won't count) but still must do 2 more - so yes, you are getting 3


I posted in the Disney thread about the study on pregnant women and the recommendation for them to have a 3rd dose if low immunity.
It's recommended for travel to certain areas.
Giving to children under 12 months
and some adults

and this-now with Disney
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/jan/24/measles-faq/
Q: Do adults need an MMR booster shot?

A: Some might. Anyone born before 1957 likely has immunity because the virus was in wide circulation until the first vaccine was introduced in 1963. However, a second booster shot was not added to the childhood vaccination schedule until 1989. So adults born after 1957 but before 1985 may have received only one MMR shot and may benefit from a booster.

Also, the CDC recommends two MMR doses for anyone who received an inactivated or “killed” measles vaccine, or one of unknown origin, from 1963 to 1967. That’s because more recent versions of the vaccine are more effective.

2+1 =3

MORE - http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health...nother-n290786

http://www.kdlt.com/news/local-news/...-work/30987596

some are titering some are just going for that extra dose - http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/...coln/22562765/



@alpine I hope it does not come to a witch hunt! I was a reminded by a friend of the hysteria around AIDS in the early 80's many of the comments today are cookie-cutter with now measles / vaccines as the buzz words. Hysteria makes some act........crazy!

 

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#164 of 167 Old Today, 11:33 AM
 
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If it's of any interest, I can tell you how my two older sons' appointments go in regards to either having their titers checked, or if our doctor just suggests a 3rd dose of MMR (or anything else).

I am going to fight for the titer testing of all their vaccinations (besides pox, as those two received it naturally) as my youngest's titer testing when he got sick showed he had no immunity to almost every vaccine he had. My main concern is measles at the moment, but there's also TB, etc., that I'd like assurance that "took" with them.

I believe his titers tested most immunities, but it was testing his TB that was done differently and took 3 different tries and two different methods to get results for.

I'm floored at how many vaccines never took with my youngest. He cannot receive any live vaccines now, so as a family, we're doing our best to be sure our vaccinations are in order for him.

I do not know why titer testing isn't part of a vaccine schedule. Was my youngest so rare of a case that they feel it's not important to assure vaccines do their jobs?

As for my husband and myself, we do not have our vaccine records and assume we only received one MMR shot, so we both went ahead with what we believed would be our 2nd dose. I would like our titers checked too. I'm assuming our insurance will not approve such things, unless we can play our "our youngest is vulnerable and very immunosuppressed" card somehow.
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#165 of 167 Old Today, 11:47 AM
 
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The BCG shot is not given in this country.

“Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed by the masses.”
― Plato
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#166 of 167 Old Today, 01:46 PM
 
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The BCG shot is not given in this country.
I have it! scar and all, I think that is why I have psychological issues.

“neither a man nor a crowd nor a nation can be trusted to act humanely or to think sanely under the influence of a great fear.” Bertrand Russell.
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#167 of 167 Unread Today, 02:51 PM
 
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EMR guy, did you get it here in the US?

The smallpox vax leaves a scar too.

Can you get the Mantoux skin test? I understand that this test causes a false + because of the disease being present in the body from the vaccine.

Interesting. The disease tuberculosis was conquered in other countries and the vaccine got the credit while the rate of TB has dropped in this country without a vaccine, just earlier detection and treatment, and, dare I say it, BETTER LIVING CONDITIONS.

“Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed by the masses.”
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