Does this really happen? Share experiences please. - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 27 Old 07-13-2014, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Does this really happen? Share experiences please.

I've heard several times that when bad reactions to vaccines occur, sometimes parents discover that medical records have vanished or turn out to be altered.

An example would be changing the date a vaccine was received so it was AFTER the reaction occurred, or refusing to record a vaccine reaction in the child's medical file.

Has anyone had this experience? Just share as much as you are comfortable sharing, I understand that some medical details may not be good to put up on a public forum.

Thanks!
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#2 of 27 Old 07-13-2014, 08:26 PM
 
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I imagine the frequency of this is less now than in the past, if it happened in the past. I am not aware of any way to do that without record in any electronic medical system, which is becoming the norm. All alterations are recorded. But I am not an expert computer hacker.
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#3 of 27 Old 07-13-2014, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I imagine the frequency of this is less now than in the past, if it happened in the past. I am not aware of any way to do that without record in any electronic medical system, which is becoming the norm. All alterations are recorded. But I am not an expert computer hacker.
Good point. But would a parent be in a position to discover that the records had been altered? If the medical staff closed ranks I can't see where the fact that the record showed alteration would matter. Especially as it isn't possible to do a normal court case in the US with discovery and all that.

In other words, I think it would be possible to get away with messing with vaccine records easier than with other medical records. Even if they are electronic.
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#4 of 27 Old 07-13-2014, 09:09 PM
 
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I wouldn't be surprised to find that was true. I'm not sure what really constitutes a bad reaction but oldest dd did react after receiving some of her vaccinations. She had the red spot but also a rash around the injection site and ran a fever over 101 (I'm wanting to say it was 102.?) the night of receiving the shots. I called in to the on call ped and was told that it was normal and to ignore it. That is wasn't a vax reaction and just take her to the ER if she developed any other symptoms or got worse. Luckily she didn't get worse but she also never acquired any other symptoms and didn't get sick. She was not teething age either. I'm SURE it was from her vax but the doctor brushed it off and continued to want to vax to schedule. I'm positive there's no note in her medical file of my calling the incident in or her reaction. Of course it's well known that children shouldn't be vaccinated when sick because it increases the chance of a reaction and the same ped clinic tried to push me into vaxing ds at his 2 mo check up and again at 6 mo check up when he was sick/just getting over being sick from a "viral illness" that was not yet certain. Honestly I doubt they care if the kids react or even die from the vaccinations.
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#5 of 27 Old 07-14-2014, 05:24 AM
 
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A little OT, but when we requested and received a copy of my dh's hospital records from his stay, they were significantly altered, with false claims in there, medications he never took, behaviors he never exhibited were documented as fact, due to twisting of the medical personnel's words...after finding that out, how they altered his records, i have very little trust in the medical system at all. And it's not just that hospital either.. i have been going through the ringer for four years to find out what's wrong with me, at one particular teaching hospital, to have nothing figured out, became disfigured and disabled in the meantime and am now awaiting SSD. I recently was accepted back into superior care by my surgeon, who along with a neurologist, came up with one possible answer within two weeks, after going through all that crap for the last four years with no diagnosis at all. The neuro figured out i''ve had a stroke in the last six months, which is contributing to a lot of my issues - yet that hospital couldn't figure it out for four years?? I'm considering seeing an atty for malpractice resulting in my condition due to deviating from the standard of care they did not provide.
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#6 of 27 Old 07-14-2014, 06:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, crazyms. Exactly the sort of info I was looking for.

emmy526, thanks. If you know of anyone with vaccine reaction problems, let them know about this thread.
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#7 of 27 Old 07-14-2014, 11:29 AM
 
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A little OT, but when we requested and received a copy of my dh's hospital records from his stay, they were significantly altered, with false claims in there, medications he never took, behaviors he never exhibited were documented as fact, due to twisting of the medical personnel's words...after finding that out, how they altered his records, i have very little trust in the medical system at all. And it's not just that hospital either.. i have been going through the ringer for four years to find out what's wrong with me, at one particular teaching hospital, to have nothing figured out, became disfigured and disabled in the meantime and am now awaiting SSD. I recently was accepted back into superior care by my surgeon, who along with a neurologist, came up with one possible answer within two weeks, after going through all that crap for the last four years with no diagnosis at all. The neuro figured out i''ve had a stroke in the last six months, which is contributing to a lot of my issues - yet that hospital couldn't figure it out for four years?? I'm considering seeing an atty for malpractice resulting in my condition due to deviating from the standard of care they did not provide.
I had tests billed and paid for by my insurance that never occurred. IF you do find this like I did, it can be reported to the state health dept and they do take it seriously, at least they did in my state. VERY quickly it was reversed but I don't think to many people even look especially is the bill is paid they just toss it and have no idea.

Most people do not know about records unless you change offices and someone happens to mention something-IMO

 

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#8 of 27 Old 07-20-2014, 12:14 PM
 
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Deborah- you cited the example of changing the date or time of administration. That would show up very clearly in an electronic medical record. If you requested a copy of your medical records it would be visible, not a matter of having to do something with the computer.

Crazyms- fevers and local redness are a known and common reaction to vaccines. It's why people used to be told to give Tylenol before vaxxes (although that is no longer recommended). It's not considered a reason to avoid a future vax. A viral illness is also not typically considered a reason to delay a vax, as most are considered mild (such as your typical cold or stomach bug). This is the standard, CDC recommended protocol. If you think your pedi practice doesn't care if your kids die, I hope you have found another practice. That sounds like a rather sadistic group- people who spent years in training to give your kids substances without regard for killing them? Yikes.
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#9 of 27 Old 07-20-2014, 12:57 PM
 
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Deborah- you cited the example of changing the date or time of administration. That would show up very clearly in an electronic medical record. If you requested a copy of your medical records it would be visible, not a matter of having to do something with the computer.

Crazyms- fevers and local redness are a known and common reaction to vaccines. It's why people used to be told to give Tylenol before vaxxes (although that is no longer recommended). It's not considered a reason to avoid a future vax. A viral illness is also not typically considered a reason to delay a vax, as most are considered mild (such as your typical cold or stomach bug). This is the standard, CDC recommended protocol. If you think your pedi practice doesn't care if your kids die, I hope you have found another practice. That sounds like a rather sadistic group- people who spent years in training to give your kids substances without regard for killing them? Yikes.
You must have amazing supportive doctors. Unfortunately we don't all have peds that take the parent's concerns under consideration. Some viral illnesses may be considered mild but when a 7 week old gets a fever going from 104-106 it is NOT mild. He spent 3 days in a children's NICU because of it. Even if it was a mild viral illness there was still no need to give the shot RIGHT NOW. It could have waited. The doctor should have understand that when the child was barely out of the NICU and regardless he should not have had a problem letting him come back after a few days or a week or so to make sure he was recovered. The fact that he didn't and instead wanted to push the vax right that very minute was lack of concern for me and my child.

Fevers and local redness may be considered a common reaction to vaccines but there are limits to what is considered normal.
March of Dimes sick baby care http://www.marchofdimes.com/baby/whe...-provider.aspx
Parents.com When to call if baby has a fever http://www.parents.com/baby/health/f...ild-has-fever/

And more specific: Seattle Children's Hospital Immunization Reactions http://www.seattlechildrens.org/medi...ion-reactions/
"Call Your Doctor Now (night or day) If
Your child looks or acts very sick
Age under 12 weeks with fever above 100.4° F (38.0° C) rectally (Caution: Do NOT give your baby any fever medicine before being seen.)
Fever over 104° F (40° C) and not improved 2 hours after fever medicine
High-pitched, unusual crying present over 1 hour
Crying continuously for over 3 hours
Redness or red streaking around the injection site begins over 48 hours (2 days) after the shot
Redness or red streak around the injection site becomes larger than 1 inch (2.5 cm)"

She had both of the symptoms that I bolded above. Either one is a concern normally and is also listed as a specific concern after vaccinations. Those two are both listed under "Call Now" instead of the within 24hrs or during office hours lists so I had reason to be concerned. According to that list she did apparently have a valid reaction to vaccination which her doctor chose to ignore.

I think most parents would have been concerned and I was certainly right to. No doctor should disregard a parent's concerns for their child.

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#10 of 27 Old 07-20-2014, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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It is interesting to read old medical journal articles about vaccines and reactions. Doctors in the 40s and 50s were a lot more concerned about vaccine reactions than doctors are now. I think a lot of stuff has been "normalized", not because it isn't problematic, but perhaps because it has gotten so common. If you get 5, 6, 7 or 8 vaccines at one time to a two month old, it is likely that the baby will show some signs of problems. Common equals normal.
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#11 of 27 Old 07-20-2014, 07:14 PM
 
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I'm not saying you shouldn't have have called, I'm saying it is considered a common/expected reaction. Which may have not been documented because it was not considered abnormal, and maybe on-call pedis don't document much. Or maybe it was- the pedi would have felt no need to "cover up anything" so if they document all on-call stuff it would be there. Have you checked? The recommendations about when to call are not because those symptoms are themselves an issue, but depending on the bigger picture, could be an issue. They are still not considered officially reasons to not vax. If YOU choose not to vax after as a result, that's your choice and you should be supported in that. Not listening to your preferences about delaying that vax is a poor move on the pedi'a part, but medically not incorrect. I vax, and I believe the CDC guidelines, but I also believe we have the tight to make our own medical decisions, and find providers who support us. I don't think your doctors did anything medically wrong (based on the standard of care that a pedi should follow) but they were not being good care providers to you if they made you feel like you didn't have the right to choose to consent to or decline something
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#12 of 27 Old 07-20-2014, 07:17 PM
 
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The issue they are probably looking for is cellulitis/skin infection with the fever and spreading redness. Your baby didn't have that and so it was just the standard side effects listed in the vaccine handouts. The phone call is to help differentiate. IMO.
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#13 of 27 Old 07-20-2014, 07:31 PM
 
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I haven't heard of this happening, but fwiw, the last time I took DS to the pediatrician, they had on their records that he had gotten a vaccine at 2 days old in the hospital. Really odd considering A) he wasnt born in a hospital, he was born at a free-standing birth center B) we were definitely at home that day and didnt see a doctor at all!
I told the nurse that when she told me the incorrect information, but I'm not actually sure if she fixed it on their records.
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#14 of 27 Old 07-20-2014, 07:41 PM
 
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I think that kind of error is a lot more common. Maybe more now with the "check boxes" of computer records. I think it's good to routinely get copies of your records (for lots of reasons) every once in a while.
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#15 of 27 Old 07-21-2014, 05:44 AM - Thread Starter
 
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There are a number of reasons I'm concerned about vaccine errors and one of the biggest is that if you call vaccine reactions "normal" they are not likely to be recorded. A baby can have fairly severe reactions (fever, swelling, prolonged crying) after every round of vaccines and if these reactions are reported by the parent but not recorded, there is no medical record that the baby has any problems coping with vaccinations. Given that medical providers and parents are currently under pressure to do the entire CDC recommended schedule, on time, the possibility that for a particular baby spacing out the vaccines or even skipping some of the non-required vaccines might be a really good idea could be overlooked.

I reviewed a presentation to providers of a new state database for recording vaccinations and it had NO field for entering reactions. Zero. Zilch. None.
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#16 of 27 Old 07-21-2014, 07:10 AM
 
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There are a number of reasons I'm concerned about vaccine errors and one of the biggest is that if you call vaccine reactions "normal" they are not likely to be recorded. A baby can have fairly severe reactions (fever, swelling, prolonged crying) after every round of vaccines and if these reactions are reported by the parent but not recorded, there is no medical record that the baby has any problems coping with vaccinations. Given that medical providers and parents are currently under pressure to do the entire CDC recommended schedule, on time, the possibility that for a particular baby spacing out the vaccines or even skipping some of the non-required vaccines might be a really good idea could be overlooked.

I reviewed a presentation to providers of a new state database for recording vaccinations and it had NO field for entering reactions. Zero. Zilch. None.
Very few of those (any?) who have the power to influence things are willing/able to look at individuals which is why it's not important (among others) to record individual reactions. If we looked at each individual the whole system would fall apart because its about the masses, not those that make up the masses.

I'm sure you know this though 😉.

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#17 of 27 Old 07-21-2014, 09:06 AM
 
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I'll join in! My DD's records were severely skewed from what I originally thought they would read. We were with the practice until she was 13mos before the harassing by office staff, and blatant brush off behaviors from the pediatrician became too much for me and we sought alternative care with an ND (couldn't be happier btw!!).

So at 2mos she reacted pretty severely to the multiple injections I was basically cornered into giving her (Pentacel, PCV, Hep B, Rotateq oral). She became extremely lethargic, didn't nurse for almost 6 hours following her vaxxes (UNHEARD of for a baby who nursed every 45 mins to 2 hours) and when she woke from what seemed like a comatose sleep she began screaming.....a scream that I will never forget and never want to hear again. It was eery, high pitched, unearthly....just horrible and nothing I did made it stop completely. She would whine, lip quivering while she nursed, and only slept for 20-40 mins at a time and was back up to scream. This went on for over 2 weeks. During that time she also vomited profusely and had major blowouts which lasted a few days. I later read these were side effects of the Rotateq...funny, the same side effects of rotavirus itself. She began to break out in a rash, very random across her body, but a large portion concentrated on her cheeks. I do not have a single picture of her between 2mos and a year where she doesn't have bright red bumpy cheeks - but she was born with perfectly smooth skin. She was a bit disoriented and not quite herself for 2-3 weeks following, but slowly her normal behaviors resumed and other than the rash, the other issues subsided with time.

All of these were reported to her pediatrician and during our visits she seemed to be typing up a storm as she asked about the reactions and even verbally agreed that they were pretty bad and that we could proceed slowly in the future (aka delayed as I had wished to in the first place).

At 4mos she was getting over a cold and we opted to so a "shot visit" at 5mos and at that point it was just the pentacel - I refused the others. Same reactions, same seemingly concerned response from the ped.

All along I expressed concern about what I felt were food intolerance to dairy in my diet while nursing. I was told that it's virtually unheard of for babies to be allergic to dairy, and that when they are they all outgrow it by 3 but there was no reason to change my diet because *she* did not suspect dairy issues in my child and refused to send her for testing. I cut out dairy on my own at 12 weeks, lo and behold that diaper blowouts were a thing of the past and the fussing after nursing was no longer an issue. When telling this to the ped, she claimed it was just coincidence.

At 6mos DD had a physical reaction to eating oats - bright red ring around her lips. I was so angered by the dismissive nature in the past that I didn't bring it up at her well visit. At 10 mos she ate some apple crisp the night before a long road trip to see family. I noticed she looked a bit puffy at bedtime but we also had grandparents over and she was tired. At 3am when we woke up to embark on out trip and change her diaper, she was covered head to toe in hives, both eyes swollen and red and she was visibly puffy all over. I called the 24 hour on-call number and described in great detail her reaction and her previous reaction to oats. I didn't even ask for her "medical opinion" or "expertise" on allergic reactions or for any diagnosis - I simply wanted to know if there was a dosage for benadryl that would be safe to give an under 2yo based on her current weight. The response? "Oh this is a non-specific viral infection and it will pass in 7 days, and if it continues beyond that make an appointment with your regular doctor". ??? I was appalled that my child was borderline anaphylactic and BECAUSE I mentioned food, a not so common food for allergies at that, they were completely dismissive of me. Perhaps it was the lack of fear in my voice (DH is an EMT, I went through the EMT training as well) or the fact that I sounded like I knew what I was talking about and she didn't like that....but wow. It's a damn good thing we are medically trained and that I am aware of holistic alternatives and happened to have Rescue Remedy on me and was able to bring down the reaction on my own. I told the ped about it when we got back from vacation and she had no comment.

As for her records...Well I said we left the practice at 13mos. They asked whether or not I wanted her paperwork sent to a new practice or sent to me and of course I requested that it be sent to me because I was curious as to what it would say.

1. Her severe vax reactions were briefly mentioned in the context of "normal" crying and redness at injection site and zero mention of the true severity or the conversation I'd had with the ped and her acknowledgement of it being vax related. No where does it actually state "vaccine reaction".

2. Only mention of dairy issues was all in the context of "mom feels baby is reacting to dairy" and "mom eliminated dairy from her diet and feels it is working". NO mention of the actual change in behavior following the dietary change, no mention of the change in bowel movements. Nothing.

3. As for her oat allergy and the phone call I made? NOWHERE. No mention of it at all. It was as if it never even happened.

4. All over her paperwork it is littered with "DELINQUENT" (in all caps!) next to vaccination status. No comments on her reactions or the conversation we had to delay and the peds approval to delay.

I have no idea if it was altered in any way following my request for paperwork or is she was so rude as to leave it all out on purpose in the first place. I do know that my DD's medical records are completely false and NOT in any way a true picture of her health. Thankfully her records with the ND are MUCH more in depth. Seriously, the original ped spent more time typing about my marital status and the fact that we have animals in the house than she did about any pertinent medical info.

I have no problem sharing this because it's completely unacceptable for doctors to write people off this way and completely unfair for people to think that this NEVER happens and that all doctors offices are filled with sunshine and fairies and will have you shitting rainbows. I want people to know that there is a dark side so they can be aware of it and hopefully avoid what we went through.
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#18 of 27 Old 07-21-2014, 10:55 AM
 
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If you take your car in to the mechanics, you leave with a report.

I think this should be the case with going to see the doctor. In this day and age, it shouldn't be hard to leave with a copy of the info the doctor took down and the action s/he indicated. This way the patient/guardian would be able to have the office make corrections immediately.
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#19 of 27 Old 07-21-2014, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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If you take your car in to the mechanics, you leave with a report.

I think this should be the case with going to see the doctor. In this day and age, it shouldn't be hard to leave with a copy of the info the doctor took down and the action s/he indicated. This way the patient/guardian would be able to have the office make corrections immediately.
That is a great idea! Knowing that the parent or patient is going to be able to see the notes will definitely improve the standard of recordkeeping.
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#20 of 27 Old 07-21-2014, 02:46 PM
 
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If you take your car in to the mechanics, you leave with a report...I think this should be the case with going to see the doctor.
We do get reports every time we go to the doctor. Not sure if it is exactly what goes into their records or not, but it is printed off and also we can access it via a secure website if we want. A few times I have seen something on there that made me think he just checked off some box, cause I am like I don't think we discussed this, but it is always some developmental thing with a well baby check, not any illness or medicine issue.
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#21 of 27 Old 07-21-2014, 02:49 PM
 
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That is a great idea! Knowing that the parent or patient is going to be able to see the notes will definitely improve the standard of recordkeeping.
That would mean (IMO) an overall standard that we do not have here in the US.. IF "consent" is not standard how can follow up be? We don't have nationwide much of anything, we have states that sort of kind of do some of the same.

I have posted before most don't know there is an error except to find it by accident. Move from one state to another, see how different so much can be! Times that is a real nightmare.

 

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#22 of 27 Old 07-22-2014, 07:49 AM
 
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The report you get at the end of a visit and what they record in their system is very different because we got the in-office "reports" as well and I've done it with my animals when switching vets and getting all of their files handed over to me. The in-office is more a basic run down of what went on - shots given, meds dispensed, tests done, weight, height. The actual report in their system give much more detail about what the doc feels about the exam, what they notice and might want to watch out for, things that you tell them, stuff like that. I get the same from the ND although it's much longer than what we got from the ped so I'm thankfull for that!
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#23 of 27 Old 07-22-2014, 05:27 PM
 
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The California State Assembly has SB492 which would allow optometrists to give vaccines.

If pharmacists, physicians' assistants, nurses, nurse practitioners, and now optometrists give vaccines, will they all make sure that the patient rests for 15" and is observed properly and anything that happens is recorded and handled properly?
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#24 of 27 Old 07-22-2014, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The California State Assembly has SB492 which would allow optometrists to give vaccines.

If pharmacists, physicians' assistants, nurses, nurse practitioners, and now optometrists give vaccines, will they all make sure that the patient rests for 15" and is observed properly and anything that happens is recorded and handled properly?
I do like my optometrist! Very careful and thorough.
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#25 of 27 Old 07-24-2014, 08:36 AM
 
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I went to my doctor with fluctuating hearing loss in one ear. The nurse came in, listened to what I had to say, wrote in the chart, and asked if I had pain in that ear. I said, "no, no pain whatsoever,"and then she left. The doctor came in, examined the WRONG ear, and asked how long I'd had pain in that ear. When I said, "I already told the nurse that it's the OTHER ear, and that there was no pain," he actually argued with me. Because the chart said otherwise.

When I took my son in for a recurrent rash, I was asked if there was any fever. The answer was no. The nurse came in, took his temp, and there was no fever, which she wrote in the chart. The doctor came in and asked how long my son had had the fever.


I could post several more, but too time-consuming.
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#26 of 27 Old 07-24-2014, 05:40 PM
 
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Taximom5, I believe you. Dr Mendelsohn used to tell people to lie about their age, and if the doctor argued with you, ask the doctor who knows best how old you are?

You should have told the doctor who knows which ear is not working and who is the best judge of that, the paperwork or you?
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#27 of 27 Old 07-24-2014, 05:41 PM
 
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Deborah, here is the law ... http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...201320140SB492
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