Another Great One Has Passed on... - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 15 Old 07-27-2014, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
 
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A

So sad to report that my pediatrician, Paul M. Fleiss died and to have a person rudely attack him is just too much...

What is wrong with people?

Is it possible to just say "I am sorry", and let it go at that? Why get your two cents worth in at every possible opportunity? I just lost a person who was helpful in my raising of healthy children and all you can do is find fault. How rude and unfeeling. Go take your controversy somewhere else.

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#2 of 15 Old 07-27-2014, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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A newborn visit with Dr. Paul M. Fleiss, MD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBNQ...ature=youtu.be

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#3 of 15 Old 07-27-2014, 12:52 PM
 
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It's a shame his life's work seems to be over-shadowed by his daughter's notoriety (at least in the media anyway).

Sounds like you and your children were lucky to have known him applejuice.
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#4 of 15 Old 07-28-2014, 09:36 AM
 
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Haven't read the obituary but the Eliza case is an extremely sad one. Even Jay Gordon conceded that he and the other pediatricians responsible for her care dropped the ball on that little girl.

Can't say I'd want a doctor who let a child die from preventable and untreated AIDS and who nearly lost his medical license after pleading guilty to tax fraud and making false statements on loan documents and to federal banks to be my child's pediatrician, but to each their own.

"While Galileo was a rebel, not all rebels are Galileo." - Norman Levitt, mathematician and critic of anti-science postmodernism
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#5 of 15 Old 07-28-2014, 10:05 AM
 
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Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
That is Doctor Jay Gordon, MD ... he is a member here.

Teacozy, no one is telling you to make him be your child's pediatrician.

There are plenty of other pediatricians for you to choose from. Your choice. Go for it. Be glad that you have a choice. Not everyone does. Be happy you have a doctor you respect and who respects you.

I chose this one. I was happy with him. He paid for his mistakes, dearly, which is more than I can say about most medical doctors in this country, especially MDs who deny vaccine damage or fire parents from their practice.
Well of course he can't be my child's pediatrician, he's passed away...

How did he pay for his mistakes in Eliza's case? He doesn't even acknowledge that HIV causes AIDS and has said "Because I've never seen her sick or with anything resembling what she supposedly died of ... I don't believe I could have done anything to change this outcome." That doesn't sound like a person apologizing, acknowledging or paying for his mistakes at all.

Dr. Jay Gordon at least said "Dr. Jay Gordon, a Santa Monica pediatrician who had treated Eliza Jane since she was a year old, said he should have demanded she be tested for the human immunodeficiency virus, HIV, when, 11 days before she died, Maggiore brought her in with an apparent ear infection.

"It's possible that the whole situation could have been changed if one of the doctors involved — one of the three doctors involved — had intervened," said Gordon, who acknowledges that HIV causes AIDS. "Do I think I'm blameless in this? No, I'm not blameless."

That's at least better than Dr. Fleiss's statements.

Further, why did you post this here and not the I'm Not Vaccinating forum if all you were looking for are responses stating what an amazing doctor he was?

I agree with some of his philosophies, but I could never personally consider a medical professional who denies that HIV causes AIDS in this day and age a "good" doctor.

"While Galileo was a rebel, not all rebels are Galileo." - Norman Levitt, mathematician and critic of anti-science postmodernism
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#6 of 15 Old 07-28-2014, 10:27 AM
 
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REPEAT, I have all ready said that NO ONE would ever force you to choose him. Can't you be happy for someone finding a doctor with whom they are comfortable. No one here AFAIK, has criticized YOUR choice of doctor, but then your pediatrician is not as public as Dr. Fleiss has been. I wonder how many doctors in this country would stand up to that close scrutiny and get a clean pass.

If this is the wrong forum, then tell the moderators to move it. Maybe this thread be should put it in the Circumcision forum. I am not usually there, so I did not post it there.

However, YOU are posting on MDC, formerly a magazine that honored Dr. Paul M Fleiss, MD as a Living Treasure and promoted his ideas and publications on circumcision.

I never thought that a Living Treasure would be marginalized on these forums.
The vaccine forum is a heated one, we all know that.

You not only brought up Eliza and her mother in the OP, you also brought up his infamous daughter Heidi and linked an "unflattering" obituary and then posted it in the discussion/debate section of the vaccine forum instead of the "support" forum.

I've been accused of pot-stirring on these forums for much less, I'll just put it that way.

"While Galileo was a rebel, not all rebels are Galileo." - Norman Levitt, mathematician and critic of anti-science postmodernism
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#7 of 15 Old 07-28-2014, 11:24 AM
 
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My goodness. Pardon me for being honest. Interesting editing, BTW.

I posted that in the OP because most people knew it; I just put it out there to let the naysayers know that I knew it.

I did say that he was great, and that was my opinion, and I am entitled to an opinion.

IF I DID NOT acknowledge those facts, I am sure that YOU would have come here to tell me what a horrid human being my pediatrician was with lurid details of his convictions. But you are doing that anyway. I cannot win.

I posted this thread here because HE is NOT against vaccines. If I put him on the IANV forum, that would have given the wrong POV.

FTR, I have NEVER accused YOU of stirring any kind of pot, so DO NOT put it that way.

Here is an article from 19 yrs ago about his family.

http://articles.latimes.com/print/19...1_heidi-fleiss
You are entitled to your opinion, but if you post controversial information about a controversial pediatrician on a discussion/debate forum that opens the door to other opinions as well.

If your post had nothing to do with vaccines then it makes just as much sense to post it in the vaccine support forum as it does in the vaccine discussion/debate forum.

Further, I didn't say you accused me of pot-stirring, but because I was curious I went and looked at one of the threads I had in mind when I made that comment and saw that you did "like" a post that accused me of potential pot-stirring. So there's that. A moderator even agreed that my posting the article was appropriate for the forum. This is OT, though.

If the potential that other people may have a different opinion than you do on a well known and controversial pediatrician offends you so much, don't post it in the discussion/debate section of a heated forum.

FTR, I have no doubt that he was in general a nice and good person, I just don't agree with many of his philosophies and do not think he always practiced ethical medicine.

"While Galileo was a rebel, not all rebels are Galileo." - Norman Levitt, mathematician and critic of anti-science postmodernism
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#8 of 15 Old 07-28-2014, 11:36 AM
 
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You are entitled to your opinion, but if you post controversial information about a controversial pediatrician on a discussion/debate forum that opens the door to other opinions as well.
There is a report button

Personally since Mothering magazine did do a story on him in the past I appreciate it was posted here and get the connection with VPD and see the appropriateness too.


Maybe it can be posted several places for more to see.
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#9 of 15 Old 07-28-2014, 11:51 AM
 
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There is a report button

Personally since Mothering magazine did do a story on him in the past I appreciate it was posted here and get the connection with VPD and see the appropriateness too.


Maybe it can be posted several places for more to see.
I don't feel the need to report anything.

I only take issue with the idea that we can post something on the discussion/debate forum that can't or shouldn't be...discussed.

If the moderators don't want it on this forum, that's fine. But if they are going to let it stay on the *discussion* forum then discussion and unpopular opinions shouldn't be prohibited or attacked either.

"While Galileo was a rebel, not all rebels are Galileo." - Norman Levitt, mathematician and critic of anti-science postmodernism
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#10 of 15 Old 07-28-2014, 11:53 AM
 
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Sorry for your loss, and thanks for the tribute. RIP.

You were very lucky to have a doctor you had a mutually respectful relationsip with.

Kathy
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#11 of 15 Old 07-28-2014, 12:01 PM
 
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And yes, sorry for your loss. Sounds like you had a good experience with him.

I do really like his position and advocacy for things like circumcision, breast feeding, good diet and exercise. All very good and important things!

"While Galileo was a rebel, not all rebels are Galileo." - Norman Levitt, mathematician and critic of anti-science postmodernism
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#12 of 15 Old 07-30-2014, 05:45 AM
 
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May Dr Paul Fleiss rest in peace. The fact that he was an open and vocal opponent of RIC was good enough for me. That he offered alternative methods to the conventional "just chop it off" treatment for foreskin problems made him a hero in my eyes.
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#13 of 15 Old 08-13-2014, 10:01 AM
 
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... at least in my opinion.

My children's pediatrician, Dr. Paul M. Fleiss, MD, passed on last Saturday. He was 80.

He was an osteopath and pharmacist by training from Detroit MI, but came to California in 1962, took a test, and got his MD. He made housecalls for the rich and famous around Hollywood and Los Feliz and made quite a respectable name for himself. He was pediatrician to Leonardo DiCaprio, the children of Madonna, and the children of Annie Potts, judging from the wall of pictures I saw the last time I was there.

He was married and divorced and had six children, one of them the notorious Heidi.

He was honored in the last pages of Mothering Magazine as a Living Treasure.

Even as a Jew, he opposed routine and religious circumcision. He promoted alternative treatments, nutrition, breastfeeding, the family bed, vegetarianism, aerobic exercise, marathon running, and in his last days, homeopathy. Dr. Fleiss was the Los Angeles area medical advisor for LLLI for many years, and a good friend of Dr. Robert Mendelsohn, MD. He was the author or co-author of three books: Sweet Dreams (2001), Your Premature Baby Comes Home with Juliette M. Alsobrooks (2006), and What Your Doctor May Not Tell You about Circumcision with Frederick M. Hodges (2003).

He said he could be convinced either way with regards to HIV causing AIDS, and this belief made legal trouble for him when his patient, Eliza Jane Scovill and later the mother, Christine Maggiore died of AIDS.

He was my children's pediatrician. I am grateful that I was lead to him by my midwife, that I was able to know him in this life and I am grateful for his wonderful advice he provided for me when my children were growing up. I would never have gone to any pediatrician if I was not guided to him.

Thank you, Dr. Fleiss. May you be rewarded in the afterlife for your work with healthy children.

Here is a not so flattering obituary in the LA Times:
http://www.latimes.com/local/obituar...720-story.html

Memorial Service held: http://drjaygordon.com/in-the-news/p...ul-fleiss.html
My heart hurts right now.
I am so sad. I just learned of this THIS morning. My heart breaks for those that loved this man Like I did. He was the BEST ped I have ever encountered and I have seen many drs and specialist in my almost 19 years mothering.
Dr fleiss calmed me down and helped me focus when I was s hysterical mother of a undiagnosed special needs vax damaged possibly having a syndrome child. I was paying thousands ans visiting every specialist I knew trying to figure out her issues. He saw me for a hour. We sat in his office and he pulled out medical books, Ive never seen a dr do that. He reviewed everything that had been tested and explained so calmly how to best proceed. I left his office a new mother- a new outlook and a sense of peace. My dd may never have a diagnosis, he said. Thats ok. They dont know right now, the tests I had been performing for the past 3 years were good starts. It ok, everything is ok. And it was. He explained I need to look at her strengths and continue to treat her the best I could to help her reach her goals regardless of the "Label". He recommended diet changes for her hyperactivity that worked wonders! He was a doctor- he also didn't know everything- who does? But he knew how to make a mother and father feel at ease and give you the confidence to follow your instincts and be the best parent you could be. He will truly be missed. I called this morning and they still do not have a replacement... I hope they find someone who has a kind gentle heart like Dr Fleiss.
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#14 of 15 Old 08-13-2014, 10:16 AM
 
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Im so so sad.
I dont know what to do right now. I feel lost
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBNQ...ature=youtu.be
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#15 of 15 Old 08-13-2014, 10:18 AM
 
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Thank you so much for sharing your story! It is lovely for people to remember the good things that someone did after they die.
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