Vaccines, $$$ & "fight the virus NATURALLY"! - Page 6 - Mothering Forums

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Old 08-07-2014, 10:41 AM
 
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Here is a screen cap of news footage of the second doctor being transferred from the ambulance to the facility in Atlanta, why so lax, there is a guy without a hazmat suit?


t
 
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Old 08-07-2014, 11:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by beckybird View Post
Maybe they never even had ebola. Here are some interesting quotes from Rappoport:
---
*"The US diagnostic test for Ebola is utterly unreliable.

Using the test to claim a patient has Ebola or doesn’t have Ebola is scientific fraud.

Therefore, any pronouncements made by the Centers for Disease Control, where all the US testing is done, are worthless."

*"a recent study of 15 pharmacies and 5 hospital drug dispensaries in Sierra Leone discovered the widespread and unconscionable use of beta-lactam antibiotics.

These drugs are highly toxic. One of their effects? Excessive bleeding."
---
Whoah, what nerve he has, saying such things! Maybe you'll understand WHY if you take a quick look at his blog. If not, then maybe you fall into this category:
"You show people a germ (ebola) and you tell them what it is and what it does, and people salute. They give in. They believe. They actually know nothing. But they believe .No need to wonder. Don’t ask questions. Believe the World Health Organization and the Centers for Disease Control. They always tell the truth."
On his about page :

"Over the last 30 years, Jon’s independent research has encompassed such areas as: deep politics, conspiracies, alternative health, the potential of the human imagination, mind control, the medical cartel, symbology, and solutions to the takeover of the planet by hidden elites."



Way too hot outside to wear my tin foil hat today

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
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Old 08-07-2014, 11:02 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post
Here is a screen cap of news footage of the second doctor being transferred from the ambulance to the facility in Atlanta, why so lax, there is a guy without a hazmat suit?

She is in a hazmat suite and ebola is not airborne. What's the conspiracy?

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
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Old 08-07-2014, 11:05 AM
 
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Way too hot outside to wear my tin foil hat today
SO you didn't read his blog post on the ebola tale?
I don't see what's wrong with his about page. He didn't talk about aliens or anything else like that, and he's been studying this info longer than you've been alive.

I would rather wear a tin foil hat than the plastic bag over my head offered by the CDC and FDA. At least with my hat, I get fresh air.

 
 
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Old 08-07-2014, 11:09 AM
 
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@ Kathy

I was right, it is beyond the authority of the US or FDA to give experimental drugs to Liberians.

"For the drug to be used in Liberia, it would have to be approved by the country's Ministry of Health Ethical Committee, said Bernice Dahn, Liberia's chief medical officer.

Dr. Dahn said she wasn't aware of the committee approving any experimental Ebola treatment, though she also wasn't aware of any being disapproved. It is conceivable a treatment was approved without her knowledge, she said. Liberia's assistant health minister, Tolbert Nyenswah, didn't know of any approval. Liberia's presidency also wasn't aware, said Information Minister Lewis Brown. "

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Old 08-07-2014, 11:14 AM
 
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Originally Posted by beckybird View Post
I would rather wear a tin foil hat than the plastic bag over my head offered by the CDC and FDA. At least with my hat, I get fresh air.

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Old 08-07-2014, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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SO you didn't read his blog post on the ebola tale? Makes me wonder

I would rather wear a tin foil hat than the plastic bag over my head offered by the CDC and FDA. At least with my hat, I get fresh air.

I like breathing too!

 

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Old 08-07-2014, 06:49 PM
 
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The arrival of ebola is inevitable? This guy is in charge of our disease control.

http://news.yahoo.com/ebolas-spread-...205903838.html

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Old 08-08-2014, 06:30 AM
 
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If I get sick, I will use whatever works to get well, even if it was created by Big Pharma and some businessmen or stock holders are making a profit.

There is an ebola vaccine in the works:

http://www.latimes.com/science/scien...806-story.html

Do any of you work for a private firm that makes profits? Does that make you a crook?
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Old 08-08-2014, 06:34 AM
 
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Does everything have to be volunteer work or paid for by taxes or work done by non-profit?

Serioiusly?
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Old 08-08-2014, 06:38 AM
 
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So, does everything have to be either paid for with taxes or done by a non-profit or done by volunteers to be pure enough for you?

Is that seriously the standard you measure everything against?
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Old 08-08-2014, 06:57 AM
 
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If you want to discuss peoples views on who (or what system) should deliver pharmaceuticals, you could start a new thread. I don't think you will have much luck pigeon-holing people: there are non-vaxxers who are libertarian, socialist, etc.

One of the drawback to the capatalist paradigm, IMHO, is that it does not do such a good job of taking care of the poor. This is certainly true with regard to pharmaceuticals. This is true across the board - on a personal level, many Americans struggle to afford their prescribed drugs; on an international level, diseases that affect the poorest nations are highly under-represented in the drug market .

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Old 08-08-2014, 08:21 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
If you want to discuss peoples views on who (or what system) should deliver pharmaceuticals, you could start a new thread.
The very OP of this thread is about who should deliver pharmaceuticals with sarcasm about profits.
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Old 08-08-2014, 09:09 AM
 
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The very OP of this thread is about who should deliver pharmaceuticals with sarcasm about profits.
You seemed to be wanting to talk in general (shrug).

It is a fact pharmaceutical companies have largely failed to develop drugs and vaccines for tropical and neglected diseases because they will not make money on them. Do you dispute this?

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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Old 08-08-2014, 09:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
You seemed to be wanting to talk in general (shrug).

It is a fact pharmaceutical companies have largely failed to develop drugs and vaccines for tropical and neglected diseases because they will not make money on them. Do you dispute this?
No.

Do you avoid vaccines to protest this? Me neither.
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Old 08-08-2014, 10:07 AM
 
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I love it how the OP took time off from complaining about vaccines to complain about the the lack of vaccines!
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Old 08-08-2014, 10:38 AM
 
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No.

Do you avoid vaccines to protest this? Me neither.
I don't think this matters. An organisation, product, etc, is not free from limitations or criticisms just because you choose to use it.

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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Old 08-08-2014, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I love it how the OP took time off from complaining about vaccines to complain about the the lack of vaccines!
Well you got that all wrong.
First I certainty didn't take time off!

I find it hypocritical to feel you can vax your way out of a disease ....only if there is profit to be made!!

I do not support a vaccine for Ebola or other diseases.

You seem to be confused about how profit factors in here- Kathy put it very well -IMO.
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Old 08-08-2014, 01:40 PM
 
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I find it hypocritical to feel you can vax your way out of a disease ....only if there is profit to be made!!
.
Who here said that - show me one post where someone here said that the only vax that is worth it is one that makes the company a profit.

Although if there is a finite amount of money available for research and development of vaccines it would make most sense to focus on those diseases that affect the largest number of people, and Ebola simply doesn't affect the numbers annually like other diseases do. Wouldn't surprise me if there is work going on now in light of recent events but I doubt that anything will make a difference in Liberia at this point.
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Old 08-08-2014, 01:59 PM
 
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I do not support a vaccine for Ebola or other diseases.
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Old 08-08-2014, 02:02 PM
 
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This thread takes the cake!

Last edited by tadamsmar; 08-09-2014 at 03:17 AM.
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Old 08-08-2014, 02:14 PM
 
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I believe you mean, "thread".

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Old 08-08-2014, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Who here said that - show me one post where someone here said that the only vax that is worth it is one that makes the company a profit.
If you read what I wrote, NO place did I say "someone" on here directly said that.
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Old 08-08-2014, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The very OP of this thread is about who should deliver pharmaceuticals with sarcasm about profits.
NO it was not, it was to show the views of many who do vaccinate and the pure irony many of us who don't see with those views regarding diseases.

 

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Old 08-08-2014, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Besides the links I provided that explain several different ways the same thing as to why there can't be a vaccine all mention "profit" as major component in the equation.

Those who are on here and also happen to vac also mention "profit" as a reasoning.

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Originally Posted by MeepyCat View Post
On money:

I've said there are practical AS WELL AS economic reasons why there isn't an established vaccine or specific treatment for ebola. Money is part of it.

But now, please, step back and think of money a little more broadly.

Imagine you are a researcher who wants to make a positive difference in people's lives. You know that a variety of diseases cause untold suffering in low-income nations. Do you work in your lab on ebola - an odd little hemorrhagic fever that has a small outbreak every few decades - or do you go to work on Lassa fever, a hemorrhagic illness which infects 100, 000 to 300, 000 people per year? Or on malaria or dengue, which affect millions? Is market size just about money, or is it also measure of how much good you can do?
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As per the profit line of questioning, I thought this statement made by someone named Todd W summed it up nicely.

"I really don't understand why you (non vaxxers) villify someone getting paid for the work that they have done. I assume that none of you get paychecks and just altruistically donate your time to your employers. That's the only explanation I can think of. "

The above was in response to a comment about Paul Offit, but the same idea applies to vaccine manufacturers. They are a company that has to make money. Trials cost millions and take years.

Ebola is scary and gets a lot of media attention when there is an outbreak, but malaria kills more people in a single day than ebola has in close to 30 years. 3,000 children die A DAY from malaria, or one child every 30 seconds.

Years can go by without a single Ebola death. When there are outbreaks it's usually between 50-200 deaths. To again put these numbers in perspective, it is estimated that between 6,000-24,000 people die a year from getting struck by lightning.

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The point that has been made is that while they are not being overly generous, they do not make a significant profit from old vaccines such as measles and tetanus and such. There is more money in new vaccines and they are looking at vaccines as cancer treatment and such, but still that potential proffit is a drop in the bucket compared to their big money makers such as cholesterol or blood pressure treatment or viagra - things that people take regularly for years.

Ebola vaccine development costs millions and millions and how are they going to make the money back? Most vaccine research for ebola has been funded by the department of defense based on a concern that ebola could someday be an actual risk to us if used in a bio terrorism attack where they figured out a method to infect a lot of people quickly.

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Originally Posted by TCMoulton View Post
Although if there is a finite amount of money available for research and development of vaccines it would make most sense to focus on those diseases that affect the largest number of people, and Ebola simply doesn't affect the numbers annually like other diseases do. Wouldn't surprise me if there is work going on now in light of recent events but I doubt that anything will make a difference in Liberia at this point.
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This tread takes the cake!
DO you mean - "let them eat cake"?

IF one "claim" contagious diseases are to be eradicated thus one must be showing they have compassion?? That is how I think most view things, at least that is how it comes off-IMO

IF one's view point is disease are to be eradicated via vaccines, why should cost (profit) factor in it at all?

The "irony" many see is a double standard by those who support vaccines because they "claim" they do so for the benefits but when a disease such as Ebola comes into play so does money! Money, only meaning PROFT seem to trump over all. I have not heard anyone say the defense dept doesn't have the cash for the research, clearly they do.

It comes off IMO obliviousness as to the condition of the people effected because the bottom line is PROFT.

That makes many of us on the other side really wonder in general about the "reasoning" for these so-called necessary vaccines, are they really for the good or is it the PROFIT?

 

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Old 08-08-2014, 06:38 PM
 
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DO you mean - "let them eat cake"?


Good one, lol

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Old 08-09-2014, 02:18 PM
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Let's drop the personally pointed posting and negative sarcasm. Keep your posts respectful, please.

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Old 08-09-2014, 08:17 PM
 
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Besides the links I provided that explain several different ways the same thing as to why there can't be a vaccine all mention "profit" as major component in the equation.

Those who are on here and also happen to vac also mention "profit" as a reasoning.











DO you mean - "let them eat cake"?

IF one "claim" contagious diseases are to be eradicated thus one must be showing they have compassion?? That is how I think most view things, at least that is how it comes off-IMO

IF one's view point is disease are to be eradicated via vaccines, why should cost (profit) factor in it at all?

The "irony" many see is a double standard by those who support vaccines because they "claim" they do so for the benefits but when a disease such as Ebola comes into play so does money! Money, only meaning PROFT seem to trump over all. I have not heard anyone say the defense dept doesn't have the cash for the research, clearly they do.

It comes off IMO obliviousness as to the condition of the people effected because the bottom line is PROFT.

That makes many of us on the other side really wonder in general about the "reasoning" for these so-called necessary vaccines, are they really for the good or is it the PROFIT?
Nowhere in the post you quoted of mine did I say that profit was a reason. I would appreciate it if you wouldn't accuse me of something I never said.

In my post I stated that it made sense to focus research dollars on diseases that affect the largest number of people - a vaccine that could save thousands seems more logical as a priority than one which takes, on average, less than 100 lives each year. In *MY* opinion the focus should be on diseases that are most prevalent regardless of profit potential.
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Old 08-09-2014, 08:27 PM
 
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Actually, one of my major concerns about the way vaccines are pushed is that I suspect sometimes they are used instead of public health measures that might have better results.

For example, the evidence is pretty good that increasing breastfeeding rates improves all sorts of outcomes across the board. But for various reasons, using public health resources to push breastfeeding doesn't happen very much. On the other hand, a vaccine that "might" save a relatively small number of lives per year, or that "might" eventually decrease mortality of a fairly rare illness, is pushed--this vaccine MUST be added to the schedule.

I think vaccines, especially in the current atmosphere, are being over-promoted and over-used.
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Old 08-09-2014, 09:48 PM
 
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Exactly, Deborah.

I remember a doctor telling me that the missionaries and doctors who go into villages in the third world provide potable water, wash the people, their food, clothes, eating utensils, burn and replace their bedding, teach hygiene, boost the nutrition of these poor people,

AND then, at long last, line these poor people up and give them vaccines.

AND the vaccines get all of the credit.

In the very last smallpox epidemic in Yugoslavia in 1972, vaccinations were given, BUT quarantine was strictly observed. So which public health measure was most effective?

Vaccination never works alone. Vaccination relies on other variables to be successful, but vaccination alone always gets the credit, because doctors invented it.

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