CDC whistleblower - CDC knew MMR autism risk in African American boys 4 times higher - Page 12 - Mothering Forums

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Old 08-28-2014, 05:49 PM
 
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@Kathy
I'm still not seeing any evidence of a cover up. All the data was released with the study when it was published 10 years ago. "
Is it true that all the data was released to the public 10 years ago?

I still can't access the original study, other than an abstract. Can you? Even the write up of the study would not have included all the piles and piles of data.

Does anyone have access to the full text of this study? (still not all the data, but more than the snippet on PubMed) I don't have medical or research memberships that would let me see it without a fee.

Pediatrics. 2004 Feb;113(2):259-66.
Age at first measles-mumps-rubella vaccination in children with autism and school-matched control subjects: a population-based study in metropolitan atlanta.
DeStefano F1, Bhasin TK, Thompson WW, Yeargin-Allsopp M, Boyle C.
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Old 08-28-2014, 08:20 PM
 
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I'm assuming the taxpayer funded that study. Pretty infuriating that the taxpayer cannot access the full study.

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Old 08-28-2014, 09:04 PM
 
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You can get full-text studies from your local public library via interlibrary loan. Talk to a reference librarian and ask for the procedure to get full-text journal articles. It shouldn't take more than a week.
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Old 08-29-2014, 05:19 AM
 
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Yes, share this with state and federal representatives.
share SHARE away!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They do work for you! We are not talking about "studies" really, we are talking about a government agency and how they use and promote with all the $$$ throw in happens to be a tax payer issue!

 

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Old 08-29-2014, 05:19 AM
 
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I'm assuming the taxpayer funded that study. Pretty infuriating that the taxpayer cannot access the full study.
Call & email - things get done that way!

 

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Old 08-29-2014, 05:32 AM
 
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hey everyone, I'm late to the party because I wanted to actually read Dr. Hooker's analysis myself. I do not have access to the original study, other than the abstract.

I am concerned that there is misinformation in this post (#193 CDC whistleblower - CDC knew MMR autism risk in African American boys 4 times higher) from earlier in the thread and I have yet to see a clear correction on some of the more glaring pieces.

Again, a complete misinterpretation of the study results.[/COLOR]
All of us don't know ALL the detail, thus why when we are dealing with someone who alludes to other's knowing and "whistle blows" and is connected to a govt agency - we need a Congressional over site/hearing into this matter.

NONE of us know what else has been omitted and this use of data and if you look at it so many times you get a result you desire, the PRO vaccine has done this too. Many "so-called" studies clamming there is no link did just that, looked over old data to draw that conclusion. Making statements that this is being done at the CDC means it should be taken to who can actually do something (it's all we have folks!) Congress! Like it or not.

I'm really shocked in one way that those who just want to say over and over how there is no link never stop and deal with the enormous cost autism has on our society and vaccine and autism are $$$$$$$$$$ money!

No matter how you look at things the long term cost to the society is going to effects all aspects. One in 68 is the current number, out of four feel this is due to vaccines. http://www.fromhopetocures.org/1-in-...oung-children/
As the numbers with autism increase (and they have been, but yet many can't believe this) someone pays this cost - someone is actually everyone, even those who deny the connection. One can deny the numbers all they want, what we CLEARLY have seen is those families that deal with autism feel there is a connection, more get the label more are likely to feel vaccines are connected.

 

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Old 08-29-2014, 06:46 AM
 
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NONE of us know what else has been omitted and this use of data and if you look at it so many times you get a result you desire, the PRO vaccine has done this too. Many "so-called" studies clamming there is no link did just that, looked over old data to draw that conclusion.
Yeah, they're using this against excuse, claiming anybody (Hooker) can look at the data to prove what they want. This is only wrong if the data points to something negative about vaccines. It's another example of the infamous double standard.

 
 
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Old 08-29-2014, 07:13 AM
 
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Is it true that all the data was released to the public 10 years ago?

I still can't access the original study, other than an abstract. Can you? Even the write up of the study would not have included all the piles and piles of data.

Does anyone have access to the full text of this study? (still not all the data, but more than the snippet on PubMed) I don't have medical or research memberships that would let me see it without a fee.

Pediatrics. 2004 Feb;113(2):259-66.
Age at first measles-mumps-rubella vaccination in children with autism and school-matched control subjects: a population-based study in metropolitan atlanta.
DeStefano F1, Bhasin TK, Thompson WW, Yeargin-Allsopp M, Boyle C.
Sorry, don't have much time to reply today. Yes, I can see more than just the abstract.

http://www.bowdiges.org/documents/fi...ison_study.pdf

That has been available online for a while.

And yes, the full data set has been available for any researcher/scientist/etc to look at for 10+ years.

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Old 08-29-2014, 07:16 AM
 
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TIME has covered the story too.

http://time.com/3208886/whistleblowe...e-autism-link/

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
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Old 08-29-2014, 08:48 AM
 
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TIME isn't allowing comments on the opinion piece as it currently is running - "telling" IMO, so "telling"......... let's remember people, this TIME "story" is an opinion piece!

Call and email - make your voice heard! accountability does matter!

 

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Old 08-29-2014, 09:12 AM
 
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“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
I do find this amusing. My undergraduate degree is in history and my master's is in Library and Information studies.

History shows us that one eras fact is another eras superstition. And the main thing that has developed in modern times is that the turn over is extremely rapid.

When my daughter was in 8th grade, back in the 1970s, she was going to a rural school in a poor state. They were using outdated textbooks for the science class. The science teacher would work from the textbook, but constantly say: "this isn't right, new research has overturned this, don't trust this bit" on and on and on. She did go on to get a science related degree in college, but now understands that science doesn't consist of fixed facts, it consists of the latest research which is subject to being overturned at any moment.

Science, treated as "facts", isn't science, it is dogmatic scientism.
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Old 08-29-2014, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Science, treated as "facts", isn't science, it is dogmatic scientism.

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Old 08-29-2014, 09:31 AM
 
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@serenbat

If you scroll down, you'll see that none of the articles have comments. So what exactly is so telling about that?
@Deb

Obviously the whole quote will not fit as a signature, so here it is in context.

"Host Stephen Colbert asked Tyson, who was promoting his new Fox documentary series, “Cosmos,” why he believed that opposing viewpoints were not necessary in every scientific debate.

“That would be a waste of everyone’s time,” Tyson said. “Once science has been established, once a scientific truth emerges from a consensus of experiments and observations, it is the way of the world. What I’m saying is, when different experiments give you the same result, it is no longer subject to your opinion. That’s the good thing about science: It’s true whether or not you believe in it. That’s why it works.”

Tyson, making his show-record 10th appearance on the program, told Colbert that Americans could make any arguments they wished, but he said no one has the right to be taken seriously.

“You get to say the world is flat because we live in a country that guarantees free speech, but it’s not a country that guarantees that anything you say is correct,” Tyson said.

Superstitions/thinking the world was once flat/not thinking washing hands prevented infection etc were not "facts" based on careful observations and experiments through the scientific method.

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Old 08-29-2014, 09:42 AM
 
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@serenbat

If you scroll down, you'll see that none of the articles have comments. So what exactly is so telling
It's not news, it's JUST opinion and you don't want others to say a word-stifling!

 

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Old 08-29-2014, 09:44 AM
 
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Science, treated as "facts", isn't science, it is dogmatic scientism.



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Old 08-29-2014, 09:49 AM
 
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Thanks for adding the context, Teacozy.

Nevertheless, a number of "scientific beliefs" that were considered totally solid have fallen away as new research was carried out.

Generally, as soon as I run into someone saying: "oh, these people are just like the flat-earth society" alarm bells go off. If there is no argument, there is no need to mock your opponents. Just point calmly to the latest solid research and ask them to read it.

The vaccine "science" actually rests on studies like the Fombonne one that no pro-vaxer ever wants to discuss, where Fombonne took his MMR uptake numbers from the Quebec area and used them to discuss the incidence of autism in Montreal. And that was only the most glaring of a number of problems with a study which has not been retracted from Pediatrics and which is still on the AAP list of studies that show no link between vaccines and autism.

Medical science isn't comparable to physics. It isn't comparable to astronomy. And anyone who tries to say that it is...has something to cover up. IMO
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Old 08-29-2014, 09:50 AM
 
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So Time hasn't covered the story. They have put out an OPINION piece on the story.

Clarity and accuracy are good.
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Old 08-29-2014, 09:53 AM
 
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I'm reposting this bit, just to emphasize that there was no response or discussion on this point:

From the link Mirzam supplied in post 328

Quote:
Nowhere to my knowledge, except in this discussion, has population based epidemiology been used to answer toxicological questions. Always, the more ‘hard’ science of laboratory work and animal studies would be top priority.
This is the sort of discussion I would really like to have with pro-vaxers. But in my experience, this is exactly the sort of stuff they DO NOT WANT TO DISCUSS.
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Old 08-29-2014, 09:54 AM
 
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Is vaccine science good science?

After reading quite a pile of it, generally, my answer is no.
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Old 08-29-2014, 10:05 AM
 
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And just a reminder that Cochrane had reviewed the DeStefano et al paper back in 2005 and had this to say:

Quote:
■ Even though the authors concluded there was “no significant difference” between cases and controls in the age at first vaccination up to 18 months and 24 months, more cases received MMR before 36 months, making the two group different in an important sense.

■ This conclusion “showed bias in the enrollment of cases which may not be representative of the rest of the autistic population of the city of Atlanta, USA where the study was set.”

■ This study offered “inadequate explanations” for missing data.

This study had the highest rate of excluded cases – more than one-third of the total – among all studies reviewed by Cochrane.

■ Reporting on vaccine coverage and the “structure of comparisons” in this study were unclear, “raising the possibility of bias.”

■ This study suffered from a “moderate” risk of bias.
Pro-vaxers don't seem to want to discuss that review either.

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Old 08-29-2014, 10:35 AM
 
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Tending on twitter is a youtube video called The CDC Learns that Thompson has been speaking with Brian Hooker.
Warning-may or may not tickle your funny bone.

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Old 08-29-2014, 10:35 AM
 
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"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

The truth is the truth whether you believe it to be true or not. It exists outside you, I or anyone else.

My problem with this quote is that it implies some people think they have a cornerstone on the truth, and they do not.

Some people may be more knowledgeable on a subject than others, but that is really it.

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Old 08-29-2014, 10:49 AM
 
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Read the Times piece.

This part jumped out at me:

" Skepticism is healthy, and the sign of curious minds, but not when it flies in the face of evidence. Especially gold standard, rigorous scientific evidence that has been accumulating for decades and shows that vaccines are not linked with an increased risk of the developmental disorder."

First off - duh. Skepticism is often the cornerstone of positive change. Even when skeptics are wrong, the act of being skeptical can serve a positive purpose: to prevent complacency. One should never be complacent when dealing with childrens health.

The bolded is so wrong that I would create an account at Time and comment if I could.

The gold standard in most medical research is double -blind, placebo controlled studies. The vast majority of vaccine studies are not double blind, nor are they true placebo controlled. Most vaccine apologists say there cannot be double blind, placebo studies as it is unethical to leave children without vaccination.

The author could have said "most studies show…" but , NO, she went for "gold standard, rigorous scientific evidence" to make the vaccine case seem stronger. Either that or she is ignorant on vaccine studies. Take your pick.

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Old 08-29-2014, 11:42 AM
 
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This is a long thread, and I cannot remember if it has been covered or not (it might deserve its own thread) but Thompson is also concerned about thimerosal in flu vaccines given to pregnant women. He is not a fan, and I very much agree with him. Even if there is any hint that thimerosal is bad for people (and there is more than hint) why are you still putting it in vaccines - and for pregnant women!!!

Watch the video here, it is very short.

http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/cdc...causes-autism/

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Old 08-29-2014, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Tending on twitter is a youtube video called The CDC Learns that Thompson has been speaking with Brian Hooker.
Warning-may or may not tickle your funny bone.

That was hilarious.

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Old 08-29-2014, 12:08 PM
 
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This is a long thread, and I cannot remember if it has been covered or not (it might deserve its own thread) but Thompson is also concerned about thimerosal in flu vaccines given to pregnant women. He is not a fan, and I very much agree with him. Even if there is any hint that thimerosal is bad for people (and there is more than hint) why are you still putting it in vaccines - and for pregnant women!!!

Watch the video here, it is very short.

http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/cdc...causes-autism/
I think that does deserve its own thread kathymuggle!

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Old 08-29-2014, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think that does deserve its own thread kathymuggle!
I posted the link somewhere in the middle of this tread, but I agree it deserves its own. I know there is a current discussion on this site on flu vaccine in pregnancy and those that have to make a decision should have the information.

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Old 08-29-2014, 12:36 PM
 
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That was hilarious.
I am going to be laughing about this all day.

Quote:
Maybe we can show Thompson is unbalanced and …
Quote:
Unbalanced! That means we hired a scientist who was unbalanced!
It can’t work. If we paint him as crazy then we have to admit a crazy man was doing our research. It’s bad enough we hired Poul Thorsen! He stole millions in research money, and now we have to keep telling the world that, okay he’s a thief, but his research is just great! No lies there! No sir! He’s on the up and up when it comes to da*n research! He’s only a crook part of the time!

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Old 08-29-2014, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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^^^^^ Me too.

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Old 08-29-2014, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Dr Hooker live online now @ Autismone/Thriiive seminar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfyGFvXWACU

(12.30 to 1.30 PST)

t
 
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