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Vaccinations > CDC whistleblower - CDC knew MMR autism risk in African American boys 4 times higher
teacozy's Avatar teacozy 07:02 PM 08-31-2014
Honest is actually listed as a synonym of reasonable.

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/reasonable

Along with : Fair, impartial, objective etc.

serenbat's Avatar serenbat 07:06 PM 08-31-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
@ Kathy

I do not see how any scientist can be simultaneously dishonest and fraudulent while also being considered "reasonable." That doesn't make logical sense.

I'll repeat, professional disagreement is not fraud.
Let's remember he didn't say that they had a professional disagreement, you are saying it and that doesn't count!

Beside PRO vaccer math being different, PRO vaccers must use different meaning too!

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/fraud
kathymuggle's Avatar kathymuggle 07:07 PM 08-31-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
@ Kathy

I do not see how any scientist can be simultaneously dishonest and fraudulent while also being considered "reasonable." That doesn't make logical sense.

I'll repeat, professional disagreement is not fraud.
There are numerous studies showing scientists regularly alter results to suit their hypothesis. Are they all unreasonable? Want me to find a link?

I urge everyone to read the letter from Bill Thompson.

It is here:

http://www.rescuepost.com/.a/6a00d83...05e4614970c-pi

Professional disagreement can indeed be fraud when one individual/ group wants to cover up significant details of harm because it does suit their purposes, while another group or individual does not think they should cover that up.

As Samantix said (IIRC) Thompson hired a whistle-blower lawyer. This is no minor disagreement.
kathymuggle's Avatar kathymuggle 07:13 PM 08-31-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post
Let's remember he didn't say that they had a professional disagreement, you are saying it and that doesn't count!

Beside PRO vaccer math being different, PRO vaccers must use different meaning too!

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/fraud
True.

In the above letter, he said "we omitted data"

In another paragraph he said reasonable scientists can and do disagree on the interpretation of information. He even used the present tense in this carefully crafted paragraph. It was not an explantion of what happened - where as the "we omitted data" was.
Deborah's Avatar Deborah 07:18 PM 08-31-2014
Any smart scientist who is criticizing vaccines says some variation on the following:

Vaccines are wonderful and have saved countless lives and everyone should get every single vaccine recommended as often as recommended.

It doesn't actually mean anything. It is a form of ass covering.
applejuice's Avatar applejuice 07:18 PM 08-31-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post
The snopes link originally had a "probably false" rating on it when I posted last week. Interesting!
Mirzam's Avatar Mirzam 07:24 PM 08-31-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
The snopes link originally had a "probably false" rating on it when I posted last week. Interesting!

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1166217

Popular Myth-Busting Website Coerced by Special Interests?
kathymuggle's Avatar kathymuggle 07:27 PM 08-31-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
The snopes link originally had a "probably false" rating on it when I posted last week. Interesting!
I remember that!
serenbat's Avatar serenbat 07:43 PM 08-31-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
Only have time to respond to this one post.

What exactly is there to report? An alleged "whistleblower" who allegedly worked for the CDC who is conveniently remaining anonymous supposedly talked to a well known anti vaxer who is a board member of Focus Autism "an organization which believes in the ongoing cover-up of the vaccine/autism link" on the phone?

??

Where is the story? Where is the evidence?
"
Also from last week...... My, things change!
serenbat's Avatar serenbat 07:44 PM 08-31-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
True.

In the above letter, he said "we omitted data"

In another paragraph he said reasonable scientists can and do disagree on the interpretation of information. He even used the present tense in this carefully crafted paragraph. It was not an explantion of what happened - where as the "we omitted data" was.
I'm sure that lawyer glanced at it
Mirzam's Avatar Mirzam 07:57 PM 08-31-2014
If anyone watched Dr Hooker's presentation on Friday (I posted the live link at the time), you would have heard more revelations! Not to worry it is on youtube, here.

Here is a screen cap from the presentation of note written by Dr Thompson that Dr Hooker has in his possession.


Taximom5's Avatar Taximom5 07:18 AM 09-01-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post
Somewhere way up thread I worried that the right statistical significance may not have been used by Hooker since he tested multiple hypotheses with the same data (eventually you might "prove one" by chance).

I'm not the only one that worries. This blog post (skip the first couple of paragraphs if you're non-vax and sensitive) explains this better than me and calculates if the correlations noted by Hooker are actually statistically significant (spoiler: it's a no).

http://allendowney.blogspot.co.uk/20...sease-and.html
That's funny, because THOMPSON is the one who thought this was (and still is) statistically significant.

So you think the provax blogger understands it better than the provax expert who actually participated in both the research and the coverup?

Sounds desperate to me.
Deborah's Avatar Deborah 08:19 AM 09-01-2014
Next explanation:

Thompson is mentally ill...sudden onset...he was fine but now he is crazy.
serenbat's Avatar serenbat 08:48 AM 09-01-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
Next explanation:

Thompson is mentally ill...sudden onset...he was fine but now he is crazy.
Is his tin-foil wrapped to tightly? Could it be an aluminum reaction?
Mirzam's Avatar Mirzam 08:56 AM 09-01-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
Next explanation:

Thompson is mentally ill...sudden onset...he was fine but now he is crazy.
Did you watch the youtube video "Secret bunker video from CDC captures moments after MMR vaccine confession"? It appears they have considered that angle......

"Maybe we can show Thompson is unbalance and...."

"Unbalanced! That means we hired a scientist who was unbalanced!"

"It can't work. If we paint him as crazy..... then we have to admit to a crazy man was doing our research!"

"It's bad enough we hired Poul Thorson!"

"He stole millions in research money, and now we have to keep telling the world, okay he's a thief, but his research is just great!"


Deborah's Avatar Deborah 09:04 AM 09-01-2014
Yes, I did see that video. That was why I added the part about sudden onset.

The CDC is certainly in an awkward position, which is one reason why they are hiding behind a screen of bloggers and snope and so forth. Anything the CDC actually says will be held against them, but they aren't "responsible" for the noisemaking screen.
prosciencemum's Avatar prosciencemum 12:34 PM 09-01-2014
The CDC did make a statement - even before Dr Thomas. It's linked up thread I think....
serenbat's Avatar serenbat 01:23 PM 09-01-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post
The CDC did make a statement - even before Dr Thomas. It's linked up thread I think....
You mean that statement where they didn't deny the risk is higher in African American males?n Or deny or contradict that he and his fellow researched had information omitted? The statement that does not even name names. That one?

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Con...ediatrics.html
kathymuggle's Avatar kathymuggle 01:44 PM 09-01-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post
You mean that statement where they didn't deny the risk is higher in African American males?n Or deny or contradict that he and his fellow researched had information omitted? The statement that does not even name names. That one?

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Con...ediatrics.html
As statements go, it was very LAME.
Deborah's Avatar Deborah 03:05 PM 09-01-2014
It was a statement.

But the people who are trying to defend the CDC are not using the CDC statement as ammunition. They are doing several things:

1) quoting pro-vaccine bloggers who are attacking Hooker
2) partially quoting Thompson's press release and emphasizing where he says vaccines are good and skipping the part where he says that yeah, we messed with the data
3) doing the usual dumping and nastiness on anyone who dares to question vaccines

It is quite the dance.
prosciencemum's Avatar prosciencemum 04:06 PM 09-01-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
I offered up the Fombonne study for discussion.

You and teacozy both turned me down flat. I'm just going to keep bringing it up. And no, I won't start a new thread. You had your opportunity.

Too bad, too sad.
That's not really how debate works….
Deborah's Avatar Deborah 05:11 PM 09-01-2014
Ah, but it is how debate works. When it comes to vaccines.

I've tried several times in different settings to get a pro-vaccine person to actually discuss this study. Several actually said they would.

Then they looked at the study and disappeared.

So I've decided, unilaterally, that I will keep bringing up this study as the poster child for the quality of pro-vaccine science. After all it is on the AAP list. And was published by Pediatrics, which is infamous among vaccine critics for having published a number of really awful pro-vaccine pieces.

Cheers.
Taximom5's Avatar Taximom5 06:18 PM 09-01-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
It was a statement.

But the people who are trying to defend the CDC are not using the CDC statement as ammunition. They are doing several things:

1) quoting pro-vaccine bloggers who are attacking Hooker
2) partially quoting Thompson's press release and emphasizing where he says vaccines are good and skipping the part where he says that yeah, we messed with the data
3) doing the usual dumping and nastiness on anyone who dares to question vaccines

It is quite the dance.
Yes, it is.

And I'm starting to feel that the people who STILL believe in the CDC at this point in the game are joining in the dance. If they choose to go along with the evil, even if they convince themselves that it isn't really evil, then they are joining in the evil.

Children's lives, and their families' lives, have been RUINED.

Sticking your head in the sand and ignoring this because you don't want to believe that vaccines don't do eveyrthing that "science" told us they could do? Yeah, I can understand doing that in the beginning, before, say, a CDC researcher publicly admits to cooking the books. But after? Then you are enabling the evil to continue, and by doing so, you choose to become part of it.

i'm having a very hard time forgiving the CDC-defenders for this. I know they mean well, but...it's very hard to forgive them, knowing people whose lives have been shattered by vaccine reactions that they were told "don't happen."
serenbat's Avatar serenbat 06:35 PM 09-01-2014
Newsday has a different take on it, not like Time

http://www.newsday.com/news/health/w...tism-1.9189436 and Suzy Cohen is a pharmacist


Finally, there is no current discussion or data regarding the impact of giving the MMR vaccine after age 3.

We need to be more proactive and think big picture. There's been a suspicion of harm for years when perfectly healthy children become disabled after a shot, or series of shots. As a population, we've followed the herd, sweeping all the disturbing stories from autism-touched families under the rug. "It won't happen to my child." Now there's going to be a hostile group of parents who demand answers. The CDC isn't ready and I promise you this is one of many medical debacles to come.

Deborah's Avatar Deborah 06:53 PM 09-01-2014
Note the intensive comments on that piece in Newsday.

Over and over again the commenters cite various blog articles attacking Hooker. Why can't the CDC speak up about the science for themselves? Why are they sheltering behind bloggers?
kathymuggle's Avatar kathymuggle 07:43 PM 09-01-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post
Newsday has a different take on it, not like Time

http://www.newsday.com/news/health/w...tism-1.9189436 and Suzy Cohen is a pharmacist

Nice find!

I didn't know what type of newspaper Newsday was, so I turned to wiki and found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsday

Newsday is an American daily newspaper that primarily serves Nassau and Suffolk counties and the New York City borough of Queens on Long Island, although it is sold throughout the New York metropolitan area. As of 2009, its weekday circulation of 377,500 was the 11th-highest in the United States, and the highest among suburban newspapers.[2] In 2012, Newsday expanded to include Rockland and Westchester county news on its website. As of January 2014, Newsday's total average circulation was 437,000 on weekdays, 434,000 on Saturdays and 495,000 on Sundays.[1]


Despite having a tabloid format, Newsday is not known for being sensationalistic, as are other local daily tabloids, such as the New York Daily News and the New York Post.[15][16]
cynthia mosher's Avatar cynthia mosher 12:11 PM 09-02-2014
teacozy, I have removed your post referring to members as wearing tin foil hats. Please be respectful of others in your posts and not refer to their opinions with negative characterizations.
Mirzam's Avatar Mirzam 12:42 PM 09-02-2014
Text messages from William Thompson to Andy Wakefield and his wife released:

“I apologize again for the price you paid for my dishonesty…”

"I do believe your husbands career was unjustly damaged and this study would have supported his scientific opinion. Hopefully I can help repair it."

http://truthbarrier.com/2014/09/02/b...tific-opinion/
serenbat's Avatar serenbat 01:09 PM 09-02-2014
bit OT but in reply to a recent CNN story - for those who choose to "hear"..........http://www.examiner.com/article/cdc-...-they-be-heard
samaxtics's Avatar samaxtics 01:32 PM 09-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post
Text messages from William Thompson to Andy Wakefield and his wife released:

“I apologize again for the price you paid for my dishonesty…”

"I do believe your husbands career was unjustly damaged and this study would have supported his scientific opinion. Hopefully I can help repair it."

http://truthbarrier.com/2014/09/02/b...tific-opinion/
Wow! After the pro-vaxxers have been trying to infer there was a problem between Andy and Bill (yah, I'm on a first name basis now ), I think I'd need another confirmation that this is Andy's phone.

How apropos then that the journalist who blogged that story, Celia Farber
Quote:
won the Semmelweis International Society’s Clean Hands Award For Investigative Journalism.

Tags: cdc , fraud , Mmr
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