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Old 08-26-2014, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I hate what this place has become.

You all like to argue so much, sorry debate, that when I posted about some of my concerns and fears, not one of you came to support me. I waited almost 3 days and yet you were too busy to one upping each other to notice. Screw the lot of you.

Me(33), Mama to a crazy DD (6), Wife to a wonderful mountain man(32) BF my babe for 2 years
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Old 08-26-2014, 10:25 AM
 
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Sorry you feel this way. You posted on the Sel/delay board, I am a non-vaxer. I saw your question, but in all honestly, I cannot support vaccination, and I know you have no choice, so what could I say?

I guess, my best advise would be do not vaccinate if the baby is AT ALL SICK, however mild, make sure baby is well hydrated, give vitamin C and A prior and after vaccination. Take a cool pack to the peds and put it on immediately after the injection. Fight to have one vaccine done at a time. After vaccination, look closely at the baby's face to make sure there is no asymmetry, ie one eye slightly turned in or one side of the mouth turned down - this is a sign of damage. If you notice both eyes turned in this is a big problem and could lead to breathing difficulties and ultimately SIDS.

(Note to pro-vaxers), these are my opinions based on what i have learned and are not up for debate.

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Old 08-26-2014, 10:29 AM
 
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I'm sorry too MountainMama.... I don't even look at the other vax forums, since I can't post there anyway. If you still want to post, you could try the I'm Not Vaccinating section. There are a number of selective/delayed vaxxers over there, and we are supportive there.

 
 
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Old 08-26-2014, 11:14 AM
 
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Cute. You deleted your post in S&D. Very mature.

We're not "customer service" regarding vaccines. Nobody here makes a penny off advice. If you have a question regarding science, take it to the main board, AND take it to other forums (both provax and anti) and make your decision on your own.

We're not "authorities". No matter what people tell you, you are fundamentally on your own when it comes to the consequences of vaccine decisions. (and, no matter what people tell you, it probably doesn't matter - vaccines aren't as dangerous an many anti's think, and the diseases aren't as deadly [usually] as the provaxers make it out, even when they're ped ICU nurses.] )
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Old 08-26-2014, 11:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MountainMamaGC View Post
You all like to argue so much, sorry debate, that when I posted about some of my concerns and fears, not one of you came to support me. I waited almost 3 days and yet you were too busy to one upping each other to notice. Screw the lot of you.
Aw, Sorry mama. I was out of town. I was AFK for a few days, but do admit that when I came back I went straight to the whistle-blower debate. I kind of like debate, which I am not going to apologise for, but that does not preclude that I should give support when I can. I will take a look at your post (have not seen it yet) and bravely post over on sel/del if I have anything to say.

(ETA: Ok, you deleted it. That is your call. I do understand if you hate what MDC has become on vaccine issues. Others share your opinion, I expect. MDC vaccine boards are not for everyone and may have evolved in away you do not like. Sometimes I feel the same way, although not ususally from lack of feeling support….more from polarisation and the sense that some place "winning" above the person on the other end of the keyboard. I do think NV is generally friendly and supportive, but occasionally posts get missed. If you want to pm me, you can. )

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Old 08-26-2014, 11:22 AM
 
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Kathy, she deleted her post. She was talking about vaccinating her 3 month old foster baby, asking for support/advice.

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Old 08-26-2014, 11:26 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MountainMamaGC View Post
You all like to argue so much, sorry debate, that when I posted about some of my concerns and fears, not one of you came to support me. I waited almost 3 days and yet you were too busy to one upping each other to notice. Screw the lot of you.
Oh charming.

I don't hang out at the selective/delayed board. You could have started a private message if your post wasn't getting a response.

Edited because I just read this was a concern about a sick foster child. Have no experience with the foster system but I would not vaccinate a sick child especially if they are currently or have recently been on antibiotics. And I would heed Kathymuggle's advice about not using Tylenol before or after vaccination. (Actually at anytime at all.)

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Last edited by samaxtics; 08-26-2014 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 08-26-2014, 11:40 AM
 
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Kathy, she deleted her post. She was talking about vaccinating her 3 month old foster baby, asking for support/advice.
I was wondering why she had to vaccinate. IIRC, she is Canadian - and Canada is an easy place to be non-vax.

MM - can you delay?

Are you in BC?

I found this on the BC site

"http://www.bccdc.ca/NR/rdonlyres/E7588B89-8B30-432E-888C-F4DF7CBB5C29/0/SectionIB_InformedConsent_October.pdf

I am not sure if any of this is of use to you, but it said this:

"A foster parent may not refuse a foster child’s immunization without the authorization of the child’s social worker. If you are not satisfied that the social worker has authorized a refusal, bring the matter to the attention of the child’s social worker and inform your supervisor.
If a foster parent discloses that the child is in foster care by agreement with the child’s parent, the parent may retain the authority to consent. In these circumstances, if there a question about who has authority to consent, contact the child’s social worker for clarification."

If the placement is temporary, couldn't you argue this should be the parents call once the child is re-united with the parents or placed permanently?

Otherwise, I agree with Mirzam. Do not vaccinate a sick child. Just delay the appointment if it comes up. Avoid tylenol before and after appointments. If there is any reaction to a vaccine, document, document, document.

Congrats on the baby!

kathy

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Old 08-26-2014, 11:45 AM
 
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I'm sorry you feel ignored - it's a sucky feeling, regardless of the reason.

I read your post and didn't feel qualified to answer (I live in the US and have never been a foster parent) - if in the future I read a post like yours I will try and remember to take a moment acknowledging your dilemma, if for no other reason but to bump the post to increase the possibility that someone with an answer will see it.
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Old 08-26-2014, 04:08 PM
 
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[QUOTE=Mirzam;17954634]Sorry you feel this way. You posted on the Sel/delay board, I am a non-vaxer. I saw your question, but in all honestly, I cannot support vaccination, and I know you have no choice, so what could I say? QUOTE]

I saw it too.

So often I see things, sometimes where I could provide a link but it's in a section I can't post in.

I frankly don't know why those who are PRO ignored your post. Clearly many DID see it. Sometimes I feel many who are PRO want you (anyone) to do it as per the "schedule" and when you delay/selective you are just so "gray" - those don't appeal to the PRO's and the NON can't post, so you (or ANYONE) is stuck with very few that can and even fewer can post links to help.

Going after others and saying "arguing" when the fact is many simply can not post is not polite IMO and misguided.

 

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Old 08-26-2014, 04:58 PM
 
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I saw your post, but as a lifelong, dedicated nonvaxer, I did not feel I could give you an answer you would trust.

The moderators have drawn the lines here and I respect those boundaries.

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Old 08-26-2014, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Cute. You deleted your post in S&D. Very mature.

We're not "customer service" regarding vaccines. Nobody here makes a penny off advice. If you have a question regarding science, take it to the main board, AND take it to other forums (both provax and anti) and make your decision on your own.

We're not "authorities". No matter what people tell you, you are fundamentally on your own when it comes to the consequences of vaccine decisions. (and, no matter what people tell you, it probably doesn't matter - vaccines aren't as dangerous an many anti's think, and the diseases aren't as deadly [usually] as the provaxers make it out, even when they're ped ICU nurses.] )
It deals with my foster son so I would have deleted anyway.

Me(33), Mama to a crazy DD (6), Wife to a wonderful mountain man(32) BF my babe for 2 years
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Old 08-26-2014, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I saw your post, but as a lifelong, dedicated nonvaxer, I did not feel I could give you an answer you would trust.

The moderators have drawn the lines here and I respect those boundaries.
I wasnt asking whether or not I should. I was asking what I could to help him through it. Nothing to debate about that.

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Old 08-26-2014, 05:29 PM
 
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I'm sorry MM! Mods generally try to answer posts that don't have a response. I know some mods love doing that and we all acknowledge that it makes members feel heard. I'm terrible with that job. I didn't see your post but probably could have offered some support as a selective/delayed mama. I imagine the decision to vaccinate is especially difficult when caring for a foster child. I don't envy being the one to make that decision.

It's also true that the vax boards have been sliced so that members can post with like-minded members. A lot of the debate you're seeing may well be members who don't identify as selective/delay and didn't feel comfortable posting in that forum.

As a fellow long-time member, I know you know that the forums sort of shift and evolve. There are some that I used to love that I don't post in as much anymore and others that I'm finding really supportive. I do feel like I understand when a source of support dwindles and how frustrating that can feel.

If you decide to re-post, an option is to post in the general vaccine forum and request that debate be limited in favor of support for your question. That may work.

Take care, ICM

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Old 08-26-2014, 05:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I didnt mean to sound bitchy, i was frustrated and scared for this child. I dont like vaccines, my daughter had a bad reaction, and I have no choice when it comes to vaccinating my foster son. I had went through the last few days feeling like I poisoned him. He is doing well now, even met a new milestone today, so I feel better for now. I could have used some support at the time and I thought this was a good place to get it. He will be 5 months at his next one. I think I may give him some cod liver oil the week before and the week after, and put an cold pack on his legs, and cross my fingers.

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Old 08-26-2014, 05:47 PM
 
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He will be 5 months at his next one. I think I may give him some cod liver oil the week before and the week after, and put an cold pack on his legs, and cross my fingers.
I just browsed the selective/delay forum and feel like I could pop in there as a member from time to time. I don't personally feel the need for support for vaxing/not vaxing my kids but I do feel it's important to offer support to other mothers during this time.

I have never vaccinated a young child but both of my kids have received vaccines. Like a PP said, I was always sure they were well and in good sorts. We took it easy after and had down-time at home. We are fortunate to have never had a reaction outside of soreness/redness at the injection site.

I'm not all that familiar with the foster system but if this is temporary care I think I would reach out and try to meet the wishes of the birth parents. Maybe that could give you a greater sense of purpose for having the vaccination?

I imagine it's especially difficult for you if your child has had a reaction.

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Old 08-26-2014, 07:27 PM
 
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MountainMama, I'm sorry you are having to deal with such frightening and frustrating issues.

I'm guessing that you didn't know that some of us have been told by CM that we are not permitted to post in the Sel/Del forum, because we have strongly expressed distrust and/or disapproval of vaccines. It's not a question of our not feeling comfortable, but of not wanting to get kicked off MDC.
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Old 08-26-2014, 07:40 PM
 
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Those of us who advocate following the schedule are not welcome to post in the selective/delayed either.

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Old 08-26-2014, 07:54 PM
 
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I'm not following. Are you upset that you posted and didn't get a response, or at least a satisfactory one? The S/D sub-forum probably gets the least traffic in the Vaccinations section. I try to respond to posts whenever I can. But I'm one woman, and frankly, I've been on a much-needed vacation from MDC.

I have to disagree with you, though. Although interactions in that sub-forum are minimal, they've been incredibly helpful for me. If you're not getting a response, just a gentle bumping up of your thread, ("Anybody? I'm still wondering what to do."), will suffice.

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Old 08-26-2014, 08:25 PM
 
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Those of us who advocate following the schedule are not welcome to post in the selective/delayed either.
???? Since when? It says those who vaccinate on schedule "can" post there, I have seen those who post on VOS also post there. It only means those who "do not" are not to post.

This is clearly marked when you look at the three sections, in the non bold under the title.

 

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Old 08-26-2014, 09:33 PM
 
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I thought the split between vaccinating and vaccinating delayed/selective was a mistake - but if it's about support for vaccinating feel free to either (or cross post) in s&d and vaccinating on schedule boards. I was told not to post in s&d so I don't typically read those.
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Old 08-27-2014, 05:34 AM
 
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I was told not to post in s&d so I don't typically read those.
this is odd, maybe you and the others should contact CM

it clearly states those who do vac can post, why state it if it's not true?

maybe those like this OP should also complain, that leaves few to reply

 

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Old 08-27-2014, 07:01 AM
 
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I'm okay with posting in Selective and Delayed, but as a grandmother who hasn't had to personally deal with vaccines in many years (I don't get any for myself, of course), I don't really have any useful advice on a question of how to minimize reactions if you do vaccinate.

My thinking on the split of the forums, is that the pro-vaccine forces in the US and some other countries are becoming very hard-line and treating anyone who deviates from the schedule as "anti-vaccine". This is absurd, of course, but it does mean that anyone who wants some choice about which vaccines and when, has to side with the pro-choice organizations. There really is no place for people with questions in organizations like Voices for Vaccines.

The push against the philosophical exemption reinforces this situation by making it harder for people to pick and choose and still have their children attend school.
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Old 08-27-2014, 01:54 PM
 
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???? Since when? It says those who vaccinate on schedule "can" post there, I have seen those who post on VOS also post there. It only means those who "do not" are not to post.

This is clearly marked when you look at the three sections, in the non bold under the title.
And there are also many posts from members who are anti-vax. Doesn't mean that it technically is allowed.
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Old 08-27-2014, 02:05 PM
 
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And there are also many posts from members who are anti-vax. Doesn't mean that it technically is allowed.
That is what the flag is for!

It is marked that you can post there and many of us can't.
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Old 08-27-2014, 02:14 PM
 
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That is what the flag is for!

It is marked that you can post there and many of us can't.
I'm well aware of what the flag is for - what's your point.

Mods are busy. If someone flagged every.single.post that doesn't belong somewhere they would never keep up. Flagging only the most offensive or big violations seems the most reasonable response.
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Old 08-27-2014, 02:28 PM
 
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I'm well aware of what the flag is for - what's your
My point why are you knit-picking apart my posts?

If PRO vaccers really wanted to help they would, since THEY can.

And PM CM who actually has control over what is only a PRO vaccer concern. If she doesn't want you to post that should be made clear- right now it states you can.

This really has nothing to do with anti vaccers as it's clear we are not to post there.
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Old 08-27-2014, 02:54 PM
 
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And PM CM who actually has control over what is only a PRO vaccer concern. If she doesn't want you to post that should be made clear- right now it states you can.
What exactly are you trying to say here - I'm aware that, as a selective/delayed mom, that I may post in that forum. Why would I need to ask permission.

Like I stated upthread, I read the original post and didn't reply because I didn't feel qualified. I'm not a foster mom but through friends that are I know that there are rules about what you can and cannot do with a foster child. Since my advice may have gotten the OP in trouble I didn't reply.
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Old 08-27-2014, 03:18 PM
 
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What exactly are you trying to say here - I'm aware that, as a selective/delayed mom, that I may post in that forum. Why would I need to ask permission.

Like I stated upthread, I read the original post and didn't reply because I didn't feel qualified. I'm not a foster mom but through friends that are I know that there are rules about what you can and cannot do with a foster child. Since my advice may have gotten the OP in trouble I didn't reply.
Perhaps you didn't see, I also replied to PSM that it states for those who vaccinate, not only for those who delay.
I feel it's quite clear.
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Old 08-27-2014, 03:21 PM
 
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Those of us who advocate following the schedule are not welcome to post in the selective/delayed either.
This post along with PSM's is what I had replied to.
Thought it was clear.

Bottom line - if those who DO vaccinate want to help out another mama, it says you can.
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