1 in 4 not buying! - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 401Likes
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-30-2014, 09:59 PM
 
MyFillingQuiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Northern Idaho
Posts: 845
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by samaxtics View Post
What does rejecting evolution have to do with psm's link or being critical of vaccination?
My guess is it still lumps those beliefs together, as insinuated by the above comment, with those who believe the Earth is flat. In other words, if one is a non-vaxer, one is ignorant to science and thus believes things like a flat Earth and possibly even rejects the theory of evolution...not due to reaching a different conclusion of the evidence, but obviously out of ignorance and sub-par intelligence.

Blessed Christian Wife and Homeschooling Mother to 8: 17 (our 1st homeschool graduate!), 12, 11, 9, 5, 4, 2 and with blessing #9 and #10 due to arrive April 2015



MyFillingQuiver is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-31-2014, 08:12 AM
 
samaxtics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 667
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post
Just more proof that a lot of people can believe things which go against all available proof.
Like when healthy people become sick or severely disabled after a round of vaccinations and the authorities say it is just a coincidence, it's ALWAYS a coincidence?

"Practically every food you buy in a store for consumption by humans is genetically modified food"
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Astrophysicist/GMO defender
samaxtics is offline  
Old 08-31-2014, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,407
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyFillingQuiver View Post
My guess is it still lumps those beliefs together, as insinuated by the above comment, with those who believe the Earth is flat. In other words, if one is a non-vaxer, one is ignorant to science and thus believes things like a flat Earth and possibly even rejects the theory of evolution...not due to reaching a different conclusion of the evidence, but obviously out of ignorance and sub-par intelligence.
IRL - I know people who vaccinate and believe in UFO and all kind of wacky things and that doesn't ever seem to count!

 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
Old 08-31-2014, 04:09 PM
 
littlec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by samaxtics View Post
Like when healthy people become sick or severely disabled after a round of vaccinations and the authorities say it is just a coincidence, it's ALWAYS a coincidence?


How else could they claim reactions are rare? I once had a conversation with a doctor (who was not our regular doc) go like this:


Me: Express concern about possible vaccine reaction.
Dr.: That was not a vaccine reaction. It was just an unfortunate coincidence. You need to get your child caught up on vaccines.
Me: How can you be so sure? What if I get the vaccine and she has another, similar reaction?
Dr. Then it would be another coincidence.


HE LITERALLY SAID THAT.

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." ~Mark Twain

 


 
littlec is offline  
Old 08-31-2014, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,407
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post
Just more proof that a lot of people can believe things which go against all available proof.
Like MOST people believe if you are vaccinated you can't EVER get X VPD and that they ALL last FOREVER! Yes, IRL MOST do believe this stuff!

 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
Old 08-31-2014, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,407
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by contactmaya View Post
As for why people vaccinate? Their children cant go to school if they dont. Homeschooling isnt an option, or is too far off the radar for many people. As for why they vaccinate on schedule-most daycares also require up to date vaccination.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
As per the last paragraph, only two states have medical-only exemptions. A handful of others are known to be difficult, but most Americans can get exemptions fairly easily. Misconceptions about school and shots may account for the difference in belief and vaccine rates, but the reality is most non-vaxxers can put their kids in public school.
Thanks Kathy for pointing out about the exemptions.

A myth (that MANY do buy) and yet not true - imagine that! go figure why that is!

 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
Old 08-31-2014, 04:16 PM
 
samaxtics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 667
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlec View Post
How else could they claim reactions are rare? I once had a conversation with a doctor (who was not our regular doc) go like this:


Me: Express concern about possible vaccine reaction.
Dr.: That was not a vaccine reaction. It was just an unfortunate coincidence. You need to get your child caught up on vaccines.
Me: How can you be so sure? What if I get the vaccine and she has another, similar reaction?
Dr. Then it would be another coincidence.


HE LITERALLY SAID THAT.

Do they even hear themselves talk?

"Practically every food you buy in a store for consumption by humans is genetically modified food"
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Astrophysicist/GMO defender
samaxtics is offline  
Old 08-31-2014, 05:00 PM
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 1,588
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 437 Post(s)
There is no association between being non vax and not believing in evolution, as far as I'm aware.

As PSM explained more than once, that wasn't the point in bringing these examples up.

The OP said that 1 in 4 are "not buying" that vaccines don't cause autism and provided virtually no other information or context other than that.

She clearly thought the statistics that 1 in 4 are not "buying" it has some kind of significance, otherwise what was the point in making a thread about it?

My point was that those statistics or numbers mean nothing when determining how true any particular theory or belief is. One in three Americans don't believe in evolution. That says nothing about whether evolution is true or not. Science is not a popularity contest. It wouldn't matter if 99% of Americans thought vaccines caused autism, that would not and does not change the science or evidence on the topic.

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
teacozy is offline  
Old 08-31-2014, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,407
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
There is no association between being non vax and not believing in evolution, as far as I'm aware.

As PSM explained more than once, that wasn't the point in bringing these examples up.

The OP said that 1 in 4 are "not buying" that vaccines don't cause autism and provided virtually no other information or context other than that.

She clearly thought the statistics that 1 in 4 are not "buying" it has some kind of significance, otherwise what was the point in making a thread about it?

My point was that those statistics or numbers mean nothing when determining how true any particular theory or belief is. One in three Americans don't believe in evolution. That says nothing about whether evolution is true or not. Science is not a popularity contest. It wouldn't matter if 99% of Americans thought vaccines caused autism, that would not and does not change the science or evidence on the topic.
What you (and most PRO vaccers) fail to see it, it DOES change the "topic", you are missing the point. The topic is attitude (desire for) and that does change.

Regardless of what you put out there, be it religion or another subject, when people in general don't buy what is being sold, they do change the topic. Don't like what is being said - change the conversation!

This link I provided also did not look at the population in general, that would presumably add to the number who see a connection. The "topic" if vaccines are a factor can and does change and so do attitudes and desire. HPV anyone? A resound NO! Those numbers are not buying the "science" with that one! Flu - anyone - another not HOT seller, shall we go on????

Other medical practices (that at one point in time "science" also had evidence of support on) has changed, we are not stagnate. The desire for lobotomies has fallen out of favor, so have other procedures, tonsils removal, etc..

Desires....... not science alone change outcomes.

By they way, not everyone as you are well aware of, buys the "science" of vaccines!

 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
Old 08-31-2014, 05:29 PM
 
littlec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
There is no association between being non vax and not believing in evolution, as far as I'm aware.

As PSM explained more than once, that wasn't the point in bringing these examples up.

The OP said that 1 in 4 are "not buying" that vaccines don't cause autism and provided virtually no other information or context other than that.

She clearly thought the statistics that 1 in 4 are not "buying" it has some kind of significance, otherwise what was the point in making a thread about it?

My point was that those statistics or numbers mean nothing when determining how true any particular theory or belief is. One in three Americans don't believe in evolution. That says nothing about whether evolution is true or not. Science is not a popularity contest. It wouldn't matter if 99% of Americans thought vaccines caused autism, that would not and does not change the science or evidence on the topic.


This makes sense. Truly.
The problem lies in the "science" and "evidence" being wrought with conflicts of interest, not asking the right questions, and people who work on the science coming out saying, and I quote, "I regret that my coauthors and I omitted statistically significant information in our 2004 article published in the journal Pediatrics. The omitted data suggested that African American males who received the MMR vaccine before age 36 months were at increased risk for autism."

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." ~Mark Twain

 


 
littlec is offline  
Old 08-31-2014, 05:31 PM
 
samaxtics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 667
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
The OP said that 1 in 4 are "not buying" that vaccines don't cause autism and provided virtually no other information or context other than that.

She clearly thought the statistics that 1 in 4 are not "buying" it has some kind of significance, otherwise what was the point in making a thread about it?

My point was that those statistics or numbers mean nothing when determining how true any particular theory or belief is. One in three Americans don't believe in evolution. That says nothing about whether evolution is true or not. Science is not a popularity contest. It wouldn't matter if 99% of Americans thought vaccines caused autism, that would not and does not change the science or evidence on the topic.
Did you even click on the link and read it? Do you realize that the article is by PhRMA? Any guesses as to which group they represent?


Statistics and numbers don't mean anything until it is you claiming that all the experts/doctrs agree that vaccines don't cause autism. And we know all those experts/doctors don't study vaccines so really they are just parroting a popular belief.

"Practically every food you buy in a store for consumption by humans is genetically modified food"
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Astrophysicist/GMO defender
samaxtics is offline  
Old 08-31-2014, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,407
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
All the MONEY$$$$$$$$ spent promoting vaccine in the US and still we hear story after story on nothing but numbers going down because of NON- vaccers. Not to mention other counties can't advertise like we can here and still people choose not to vaccinated around the world. Tons and tons and tons of news stories saying NO LINK, yet it's not getting through is it? Posters who post almost 24-7 on every single vaccine/autism story they can find, yet it doesn't seem to be in any way working- wow!

A huge waste of money IMO that could be spent on really important things like real HEALTH care.

1 in 4 not buying it (among just this test subject group) - seems like that PRO-vaccine NO AUTIMS link message is falling flat - we (most I'm assuming here) also remember that recent news story (and thread) about how Dr's are failing to push those vaccines, HPV being one of the biggies, they too are not being bought. Can't seem to sell vaccine that are not even related to autism, distrust running a muck?

Every news story comment section I read has post from those not vaccinating, more and more each year in the medical field standing up against the flu vaccine. I have yet to read one story in the past few years where there is not comments on the connection between autism and vaccines. They seem to go hand in hand. I really wonder how well this survey was actually done. 1 in 4 seem quite low IMO based on IRL.

I DO think threads like this matter. I think it shows there is discontent among the sheep. If we look at history on other subject and see how they too have evolved over time (look just at faith/religion) we no longer fall into only a few select religious groups, we have diversity, we have those who do not believe at all (actually a growing number!).

So, yes I do feel thread like this show there is discontent and that "topic" of not buying what is being sold is quite the issue. This thread and it's link only dealt with the link between vaccines and autism, not even getting in to other vaccines. I would love to see all vaccine and reactions lumped together and see those numbers!

I see real significance in what this shows!

 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
Old 08-31-2014, 06:23 PM
 
kathymuggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,236
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 230 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
My point was that those statistics or numbers mean nothing when determining how true any particular theory or belief is. One in three Americans don't believe in evolution. That says nothing about whether evolution is true or not. Science is not a popularity contest. It wouldn't matter if 99% of Americans thought vaccines caused autism, that would not and does not change the science or evidence on the topic.
ooooohhhh…we agree!

Can we bury the "scientist consensus" thing, then?

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

kathymuggle is online now  
Old 08-31-2014, 06:43 PM
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 1,588
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 437 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
ooooohhhh…we agree!

Can we bury the "scientist consensus" thing, then?
Did her OP state that 1 in 4 epidemiologists/doctors/specialist "don't buy" that vaccines don't cause autism? No.

General American population =/= disease or vaccine specialists.

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
teacozy is offline  
Old 08-31-2014, 06:51 PM
 
kathymuggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,236
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 230 Post(s)
Appeal to authority…fallacy.
http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tm...authority.html

Doctors do not have to live with consequences of my decisions; thus they may advise but they do not have a say.

That being said, we are a bit OT.

I am surpsied you do not find it concerning that many people distrust vaccines. You may bicker over the OP's stat if you like, but a cursory google search does show that a decent number of Americans do not completely trust vaccines.

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

kathymuggle is online now  
Old 08-31-2014, 09:03 PM
 
MyFillingQuiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Northern Idaho
Posts: 845
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post
IRL - I know people who vaccinate and believe in UFO and all kind of wacky things and that doesn't ever seem to count!

Blessed Christian Wife and Homeschooling Mother to 8: 17 (our 1st homeschool graduate!), 12, 11, 9, 5, 4, 2 and with blessing #9 and #10 due to arrive April 2015



MyFillingQuiver is offline  
Old 08-31-2014, 09:50 PM
 
beckybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The Shattered Paradigm
Posts: 2,037
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
Did her OP state that 1 in 4 epidemiologists/doctors/specialist "don't buy" that vaccines don't cause autism?
What if they do, but don't want to speak up? Or, what if they are basing their opinions on studies with missing (omitted) data?

 
 
 "Medical propaganda ops are, in the long run, the most dangerous. They appear to be neutral. They wave no political banners. They claim to be science. For these reasons, they can accomplish the goals of overt fascism without arousing suspicion.” — Jon Rappoport
 
 
 
beckybird is online now  
Old 09-01-2014, 01:25 AM
 
prosciencemum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,828
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
It really worries me a lot that so many people mistrust vaccines. I guess we agree on that too.
prosciencemum is offline  
Old 09-01-2014, 04:36 AM - Thread Starter
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,407
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post
It really worries me a lot that so many people mistrust vaccines. I guess we agree on that too.
I know this has been pointed out prior but I feel many miss it - people mistrust pharmaceuticals. They lump vaccines into pharmaceuticals and many have seen severe reactions and deaths, so yea, I do get it.

When you have a drug that causes a reaction or a death people see the connection and they are not condemned at crazy!


When you have the same with a vaccine and the PRO spout it can't be, that breeds mistrust and lots of anger. Double standard!

 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
Old 09-01-2014, 04:44 AM - Thread Starter
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,407
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
Did her OP state that 1 in 4 epidemiologists/doctors/specialist "don't buy" that vaccines don't cause autism? No.

General American population =/= disease or vaccine specialists.
Since you claim no medical experience I don't feel you speak for the medical community as to what they do or don't think.
Kind of like a lawyer who promotes vaccines and no one buys that either.

Would you like this instead? I'm sorry I can't find one directly on autism but this does show----doctors are just like the rest of us - human!



http://www.timesofisrael.com/health-...on-call-study/

Health workers in the study were significantly more likely than other Israelis to adopt medically grounded views on vaccinating against a bird flu outbreak overseas — but not in Israel, where opposition to vaccination appeared to increase. Their reasoning when their own country was involved tended to be based on emotion and personal experience, not on science, the small study found.


Another factor may be “optimism bias,” the well-documented psychological tendency of people to believe that they are at less risk of experiencing a negative event than others, they say.



NOT on "science"!

 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
Old 09-01-2014, 07:47 AM
 
kathymuggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,236
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 230 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post
It really worries me a lot that so many people mistrust vaccines. I guess we agree on that too.
Hmmm…it does not worry me, per se. I expect pro-vaxxers to worry about it - so Tea arguing that 1/4 is not relevent seemed a bit odd:

"She clearly thought the statistics that 1 in 4 are not "buying" it has some kind of significance, otherwise what was the point in making a thread about it? " Teacozy.


I find the discrepency between those who say they worry about vaccines (a pretty high rate) and the high rate of vaccination interesting.

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...


Last edited by kathymuggle; 09-01-2014 at 08:06 AM.
kathymuggle is online now  
Old 09-01-2014, 07:56 AM
 
kathymuggle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,236
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 230 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post
I know this has been pointed out prior but I feel many miss it - people mistrust pharmaceuticals. They lump vaccines into pharmaceuticals and many have seen severe reactions and deaths, so yea, I do get it.
Bingo.

I am cautious in my use of pharmaceuticals - and this applies to vaccines.

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

kathymuggle is online now  
Old 09-01-2014, 08:02 AM
 
MyFillingQuiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Northern Idaho
Posts: 845
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
Bingo.

I am cautious in my use of pharmaceuticals - and this applies to vaccines.
Yes, exactly. Since the only time in my entire life that I've been at deaths door..and remained there for over a year, was when I had surrendered my well-being to doctors and their medications, I am quite skeptical.

It was only after I had come out of that situation that I became healthy again. I was only 20 at the time, but I have learned that I will never again simply go along with doctors and their pharmaceuticals without being the one in the drivers seat. It is a deadly game for many, and nearly cost me my life.

I think it's wise to not blindly follow anything. If a person researches the entire history and purpose of physician's in this nation alone, one will see clearly that their role and authority has drastically changed, and not in a good way. Physicians now play the role of "wellness coach", but they do it without any health tools. They come armed with backing from BigPharma and a prescription pad in hand. Both are counter to overall wellness.

Blessed Christian Wife and Homeschooling Mother to 8: 17 (our 1st homeschool graduate!), 12, 11, 9, 5, 4, 2 and with blessing #9 and #10 due to arrive April 2015



MyFillingQuiver is offline  
Old 09-01-2014, 08:24 AM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 6,580
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 208 Post(s)
Again, what I think is going on is that parents are not totally rejecting vaccines by any means, but they are moving towards a certain amount of delaying of vaccines and in some cases towards selecting vaccines. There is only a small group going for total rejection and I suspect that the majority of that group consist of parents whose children had really bad reactions. Although there are some who fall into the "study first, inject never" approach to vaccines, thank goodness.

The CDC sees delaying vaccines as the first step on a dangerous road into vaccine rejection, alternative medicine and who knows...eating local...

Sort of like the first puff of mary jane being a direct route to heroin addiction
Deborah is online now  
Old 09-01-2014, 08:36 AM
 
MyFillingQuiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Northern Idaho
Posts: 845
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
Again, what I think is going on is that parents are not totally rejecting vaccines by any means, but they are moving towards a certain amount of delaying of vaccines and in some cases towards selecting vaccines. There is only a small group going for total rejection and I suspect that the majority of that group consist of parents whose children had really bad reactions. Although there are some who fall into the "study first, inject never" approach to vaccines, thank goodness.

The CDC sees delaying vaccines as the first step on a dangerous road into vaccine rejection, alternative medicine and who knows...eating local...

Sort of like the first puff of mary jane being a direct route to heroin addiction
I agree with your take on what is going on, completely.

Interestingly, when we had our first child, I had this nagging thought in the back of my mind, "Why does his perfect little system need shots of chemicals?" This was when I had pulled myself out of the military doctor mess that nearly killed me, and I began seeing a naturopath to become healthy again. I selectively and delayed vaccinations in my first couple of children. I didn't even know why I wasn't interested in vaccinating, or why I didn't buy the scare tactics that they would be harmed without them..I just knew.

Then, I began researching vaccines. My last 4 children have never had a shot, and have never been to a doctor for any reason. My older ones never suffered a reaction, I just never felt good about playing with their immune system. Once I realized why I didn't feel good (because vaccines injure the immune system and other body systems, as well) I could put the pieces together.

I wish I wouldn't have given my first children any vaccines, even selective, at all, but I'm thankful I stopped years ago when they were small. No one had a reaction, and I still chose being against them for our family.

I think it's interesting how other parents arrive at their no-vax stance. Unfortunately, I've heard too many sad stories. People seem to research car seats, daycares, feeding choices, etc (which is good) while pregnant, but vaccines? They just do it..because honestly.."caring parents do".

Blessed Christian Wife and Homeschooling Mother to 8: 17 (our 1st homeschool graduate!), 12, 11, 9, 5, 4, 2 and with blessing #9 and #10 due to arrive April 2015



MyFillingQuiver is offline  
Old 09-01-2014, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,407
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
Bingo.

I am cautious in my use of pharmaceuticals - and this applies to vaccines.
I don't get that PROvaccers don't get it!

Same companies make both meds & vaccines (yes there are those that ONLY make vaccines - I know this!)
Both carry "risk"
Both can have reactions
Both are for your "health"
yet.........
one you can sue when something goes wrong
one you get acknowledgement if you have a reaction

BUT - one you are a crazy tin-foil wearing nut case and WRONG!

so fair???

 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
Old 09-01-2014, 09:13 AM
 
samaxtics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 667
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Quote:
Again, what I think is going on is that parents are not totally rejecting vaccines by any means, but they are moving towards a certain amount of delaying of vaccines and in some cases towards selecting vaccines. There is only a small group going for total rejection and I suspect that the majority of that group consist of parents whose children had really bad reactions. Although there are some who fall into the "study first, inject never" approach to vaccines, thank goodness.
I agree.

Unfortunately for the majority it is an issue of having to be there and buy the t-shirt to really question and turn away from the practice. Our son's injury brought us to research. The ingredients, the malfeasance and conflicts of interest, the lack of good studies, the denials of injuries, and the irrational nastiness of the defenders all contributed to solidifying our positions as non-vaccinators.

It's funny because in The Greater Good documentary, Offit with a straight face acknowledges the issues (fraud etc) with pharmaceutical drugs but then claims he hasn't seen that on the vaccine side of business. Unfortunately for people who may be new to the issue, Offit doesn't declare his interests in the vaccine side of the business. I get that it is human nature to tend to compartmentalize issues, but that is taking the cake.

Quote:
The CDC sees delaying vaccines as the first step on a dangerous road into vaccine rejection, alternative medicine and who knows...eating local...


Quote:
Sort of like the first puff of mary jane being a direct route to heroin addiction
Like prescribing oxycontin for pain and it leading to an addiction to pain meds and then on to the more affordable heroin...wait...what?

"Practically every food you buy in a store for consumption by humans is genetically modified food"
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Astrophysicist/GMO defender
samaxtics is offline  
Old 09-01-2014, 09:23 AM
 
Deborah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: the Seacoast of Bohemia
Posts: 6,580
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 208 Post(s)
In my experience, wandering into a doctor's office and accepting a prescription is often the first step on a path to serious ill-health. Happened to my sister. She is chronically ill to this day.

Happened to my aunt, but she managed to mostly recover with years of hard work and alternative medical care.
Deborah is online now  
Old 09-01-2014, 09:30 AM
 
Mirzam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Resistance Free Earth
Posts: 7,617
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
In my experience, wandering into a doctor's office and accepting a prescription is often the first step on a path to serious ill-health. Happened to my sister. She is chronically ill to this day.

Happened to my aunt, but she managed to mostly recover with years of hard work and alternative medical care.
I couldn't agree with you more. My DH is dealing with this now.

t
 
"There are only two mistakes you can make in the search for the Truth. Not starting, and not going all the way." ~ Mark Passio
Mirzam is online now  
Old 09-01-2014, 10:32 AM
 
samaxtics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 667
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
I had a parent who was on several medications when he was put in a hospital after falling down in a drug induced stupor. My sister told the hospital that he was addicted to medication and not to give him anymore. His kidneys shut down and after he passed, the doctor told her that he shouldn't have been on any of those meds. My parent was friends with the doctor who prescribed them all. We weren't talking in the years leading up to his death because as I was already taxed to the limit with my son's autism, I couldn't deal with my parent's erratic and needy behaviour. I didn't make the connection at the time to the drugs.

"Practically every food you buy in a store for consumption by humans is genetically modified food"
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Astrophysicist/GMO defender
samaxtics is offline  
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off