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#61 of 155 Old 09-01-2014, 12:19 PM
 
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Wow, Samaxtics. Some doctors really are not trustworthy.
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#62 of 155 Old 09-01-2014, 12:40 PM
 
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I'm so thankful to live today with modern medicine available if/when I need it.
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#63 of 155 Old 09-01-2014, 12:44 PM
 
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And I eat local.

And I worry about bib pharma. It's not all or nothing.
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#64 of 155 Old 09-01-2014, 12:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by samaxtics View Post
I had a parent who was on several medications when he was put in a hospital after falling down in a drug induced stupor. My sister told the hospital that he was addicted to medication and not to give him anymore. His kidneys shut down and after he passed, the doctor told her that he shouldn't have been on any of those meds. My parent was friends with the doctor who prescribed them all. We weren't talking in the years leading up to his death because as I was already taxed to the limit with my son's autism, I couldn't deal with my parent's erratic and needy behaviour. I didn't make the connection at the time to the drugs.
I have a friend who is on dialysis now because she was on an antidepressant for years; that antidepressant NOW has a black box warning about this disasterous side effect.

Honestly, if a person is depressed to the point of needing medication, why give that person a drug that will compromise their physical health? Wouldn't that make the depression worse?

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#65 of 155 Old 09-01-2014, 01:02 PM
 
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I have a BIL who has been hospitalized 3x in the past 3 yrs for becoming addicted to prescription drugs; these drugs have done him NO GOOD! One is ativan which is a known problem drug and the doctors keep giving it to him, hospitalizing him, releasing him and re-prescribing the same problem drugs. The prescribing information says that ativan is for short term use, and he has been given this drug for 3 yrs! That is NOT an advantage! That is making him very sick.

http://www.ehow.com/about_5384731_si...ts-adivan.html

His wife has demanded that the doctors at long last take him off these drugs which do no good and my BIL has only become worse in these three years; he is being weaned off them now. I warned his wife that he could have suffered liver, brain, and/or kidney damage in the meantime. The doctors have warned her about behavior he could exhibit.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#66 of 155 Old 09-01-2014, 01:15 PM
 
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Prosciencemum, I agree with you on those points!

 
 
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#67 of 155 Old 09-01-2014, 01:33 PM
 
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I'm so thankful to live today with modern medicine available if/when I need it.
I am very thankful for all the things in nature that nourish, replenish and heal our bodies. I am thankful for those people who pass on their knowledge of plants and nutrition. I am thankful for the knowledge of healers such as naturopaths that treat the body as a whole and not as a grouping of independent and separate entities or functions. And I am thankful for those that provide their skills and compassion in emergency and acute care.

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#68 of 155 Old 09-01-2014, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post
And I eat local.

And I worry about bib pharma. It's not all or nothing.
BIG - assume you mean?

Well you should have understanding how other feel if you don't trust BIG Pharma, but thread after thread I don't see that.

Post after post those who don't vaccinate or who's own children had reactions are dismissed by you, flat earther's have been in numerous posts of yours.

Why is that if you worry, the "worry" other hold appears in thread to not equal up to yours? Why all the dismissiveness all the time? The 101% of assurance (in your posts) that those who choose not to vaccinated are misguided?



I don't get it at all.

 

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#69 of 155 Old 09-01-2014, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am very thankful for all the things in nature that nourish, replenish and heal our bodies. I am thankful for those people who pass on their knowledge of plants and nutrition. I am thankful for the knowledge of healers such as naturopaths that treat the body as a whole and not as a grouping of independent and separate entities or functions. And I am thankful for those that provide their skills and compassion in emergency and acute care.

 

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#70 of 155 Old 09-01-2014, 01:41 PM
 
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I'm so thankful to live today with modern medicine available if/when I need it.
Me too.

The thing is - vaccines like chicken pox (chicken pox has a 1/100 000 fatality rate in healthy children) are not a need as far as I am concerned.

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#71 of 155 Old 09-01-2014, 02:35 PM
 
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The best of modern medicine is found in emergency care. When modern medicine starts pushing its wares on normal, healthy persons who get "side effects", that is not beneficial to the health, well-being and future of healthy persons. The problem with modern medicine is that their influence permeates our lives whether we want it or not and whether we benefit or not. Modern medicine moves into areas that does not benefit people, yet modern medicine will go to the legislatures and force their power and influence on people who do not want it. Do not believe me? How were midwives put out of business? Through social coercion and laws that did not allow them to be licensed and practice their craft. How were herbalists, homeopaths, naturopaths, or chiropractors put out of business? The same methods. How were vaccines forced on families or did these people rush to doctors demanding that their children be vaccinated NOW? No, the state legislatures linked school attendance with vaccinating on the CDC/AAP schedules, and lied to parents as to whether or not they had a choice.

So modern medicine is not available if and when YOU need it. Modern medicine demands that you avail yourself of their wares, whether you want to or not by social coercion and by law. For example, a parent can be accused of child neglect if they do not surrender their child to scheduled WBVs and the vaccine schedule; a woman who rejects regular mammography or other regular checkups can be scorned, laughed at, or treated as a pariah.

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#72 of 155 Old 09-01-2014, 03:00 PM
 
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Very true @applejuice ! In fact, even something as invasive as colonoscopy has been added to the "if you are smart and you know what is good for you, you had better do it" list of invasive procedures people over 50 are routinely subjected to.

I have a friend who experienced excruciating pain during a colonoscopy that was part of their health insurance "wellness plan" that required use for future benefits. She begged the doctor to stop, and he ignored her, thinking she was sedated enough. She has nightmares and panic attacks. She had nothing wrong with her colon.

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#73 of 155 Old 09-01-2014, 03:28 PM
 
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I am in my 60s and I have not had a colonoscopy. My maternal grandmother died of colon cancer at the age of 74, however she had lifelong problems (that I have never had) with her colon which lead to her problems, and other things I do not want to go into here.

My sister's MIL had regular colonoscopies because she thought it lead to good health and preventative medicine, however she suffered a rupture of the vaginal wall during one colonoscopy (is that a fistula?), so I am not so sure the procedure helped her as much as it caused other problems for her. That was caused by pure incompetence and malpractice! I understand this is one of the "possible side effects" or "complications" of a colonoscopy gone wrong since there are no guarantees. She had to undergo further, dangerous procedures to correct that problem. I do not know if she was talked into another colonoscopy.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."

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#74 of 155 Old 09-01-2014, 04:45 PM
 
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Wow, how horrible for your grandmother!

I am sure there are folks that may choose a colonoscopy because of family history or concerns..I am sure there are a whole host of testing people should be able to choose if they find a concern. I just don't see how routinely testing everyone for everything, or things like for heart disease prescribing statins in favor of nourishing foods will do anything but set up domino's of issues.

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#75 of 155 Old 09-02-2014, 07:05 AM
 
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I'm going to repost this. I continue to find it interesting that Brian Deer can be dramatically and loudly wrong about something for years and years, even get an article published in the BMJ making claims about particular children's health conditions that were utterly incorrect--and suffer no consequences whatsoever. As long as you support vaccines it doesn't matter what BS you spout, I guess.

Okay, let us consider one set of supposed facts.

Here is Brian Deer, definitively stating that the children in the case series DID NOT HAVE BOWEL DISEASE. http://briandeer.com/solved/bmj-pathology.htm

And here is the judgement issued clearing Walker-Smith of unnecessarily treating children for bowel disease. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...,d.eXY&cad=rja

Walker-Smith said this after examining the children:
Quote:
“On the issue of autism, I am completely astounded by the clinical features of these children with autism and bowel inflammation. Very often the gastrointestinal symptoms have
been ignored by a succession of the doctors and the findings on ileo-colonoscopy appear to be quite distinctive. This seems to me a whole new syndrome which is in urgent need of
clarification”.

Someone has got to be wrong. Let us leave to one side, the question of MMR and just consider whether Brian Deer was right that none of the children in this case actually had bowel disease.

And then let us consider how science can be bent.

And the fact that although Brian Deer turned out to be wrong, there have been no consequences.
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#76 of 155 Old 09-02-2014, 08:47 AM
 
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That man has no shame.

In the documentary "Selective Hearing" BD incredibly declares "that's not bowel disease, that's diarrhea" when shown a photograph of a child with a colostomy bag. He couldn't have looked more stupid if he tried; and yet he has quite the fan club. Apparently without any medical education, he knew better than one of the world's leading paediatric gastroenterologists, Professor John Walker Smith, as to whether those children deserved to have their bowels investigated.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/selec...r-and-the-gmc/

The fan club never wants to discuss the fact that BD made the complaints to the GMC and then profited by "reporting" the hearings, something most would consider a conflict of interest. They also don't seem interested in how it was he could sit through the length of those hearings without any known source of income during that period.

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#77 of 155 Old 09-02-2014, 09:20 AM
 
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Nice try at a diversion but you are OT---- way off.

I know it must be hard all the effort & money for that PRO vaccine NO connection message...but still doesn't connect! Discouraged? Going OT is just that-diversion when one has nothing.
The topic was not vaccines in link quoted in the OP, the topic was the widespread belief in health myths like vaccines cause autism, here some more from the article on the actual topic of the article giving other examples of health myths:

Quote:
And when it comes to health myths, PhRMA’s survey found that confusion exists beyond just vaccines. For example, less than half of Americans (46 percent) know that older men have a greater risk of fathering a child with a genetic disorder than younger men, a health fact that has been verified by a number of scientific studies. Other data from the survey provide insight into current misinterpretations based on recent trends. Take, for example, the meteoric growth of gluten-free food options. Gluten-free meals are ideal for people with celiac disease, but it’s estimated that only about 1 percent of Americans have the disease. Yet, according to the survey, 65 percent of Americans believe most people are sensitive to gluten and have difficulty digesting wheat products, even if they don’t have celiac disease. On this issue, the jury is still out. Some people who don’t have celiac disease may be sensitive to gluten, and may feel better on a gluten-free diet, but the science remains to be seen. Regardless, there’s little data to support the belief. - See more at: http://www.phrma.org/catalyst/back-t....TU9zoMuZ.dpuf
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#78 of 155 Old 09-02-2014, 09:59 AM
 
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"On this issue, the jury is still out. Some people who don’t have celiac disease may be sensitive to gluten, and may feel better on a gluten-free diet, but the science remains to be seen. Regardless, there’s little data to support the belief."

Health myth? It's only a myth because there is not enough data to support it, is that it? Maybe when the "jury" gives us permission, then we can stop calling it a myth?

While you are waiting for the data, many people are finding relief by going gluten free. Again, why is there this need to have everything cleared by a research team before going forward? If you want to know if going gluten free will be beneficial, then TRY IT OUT. No need to wait for someone to conduct a study and wait around for years until the results are out!
In some cases of gluten sensitivity, there are no positive test results, yet people still feel better going off of gluten. I guess if the tests don't show sensitivity, then there is no sensitivity? Wrong.
Calling that a myth is just irritating.

 
 
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#79 of 155 Old 09-02-2014, 01:12 PM
 
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Some people who don’t have celiac disease may be sensitive to gluten, and may feel better on a gluten-free diet, but the science remains to be seen. Regardless, there’s little data to support the belief
That message brought to you by Big AG/Big Food.

There's little data to support that people feel better when they change their diet? Oh, I know, it's just a coincidence disorder. If someone said they don't eat lima beans because they feel ill when they do, who would say "there's little data to support that you would feel better not eating lima beans"? Wt?

This is so funny because my husband and I have been wheat/gluten-free for a few months. We have seen so many positive differences. Why are some people so threatened by what others exclude from their diets?

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#80 of 155 Old 09-02-2014, 01:27 PM
 
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Samaxtics wrote:
Quote:
Why are some people so threatened by what others exclude from their diets?
Probably the same reason some people are so threatened when others refuse to sign up for blood pressure medicines or Lipitor, or....vaccines...
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#81 of 155 Old 09-02-2014, 01:45 PM
 
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Samaxtics wrote:

Probably the same reason some people are so threatened when others refuse to sign up for blood pressure medicines or Lipitor, or....vaccines...
Ah yes, but then again..when we don't vaccinate our children we "put the whole community at risk."

Honestly, as much as I care about others, and the health and well-being of others, I do not have the right to pry the fast-food-as-a-staple out of the hands of our unhealthy culture..(which would be a forced omission, not a forced injection of foreign chemicals) ..so no one has the right to use lies and manipulation and omitted truths in studies to force chemicals into the bloodstream of my flesh and blood babies.

It makes people very uncomfortable...

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#82 of 155 Old 09-02-2014, 01:49 PM
 
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There are a lot of people who think that a choice between vaccination and pariah status is the way to go. No schooling. No access to parks or public libraries. No right to shop. Perhaps special ghettos for those who turn down vaccines? Badges with a needle with a line through it? How far would they like to go, anyway?
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#83 of 155 Old 09-02-2014, 01:53 PM
 
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That message brought to you by Big AG/Big Food.
Has it ever occurred to you to pay attention to the truth of a message, rather than who brought it to you?
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#84 of 155 Old 09-02-2014, 01:56 PM
 
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That message brought to you by Big AG/Big Food.

There's little data to support that people feel better when they change their diet? Oh, I know, it's just a coincidence disorder. If someone said they don't eat lima beans because they feel ill when they do, who would say "there's little data to support that you would feel better not eating lima beans"? Wt?

This is so funny because my husband and I have been wheat/gluten-free for a few months. We have seen so many positive differences. Why are some people so threatened by what others exclude from their diets?
Thanks for the data from your single subject, non-blinded, non-controlled trial.

You seem unaware that people who have interest in the real non-placebo effects pay attention to blind controlled studies.
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#85 of 155 Old 09-02-2014, 02:19 PM
 
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Thanks Kathy for pointing out about the exemptions.

A myth (that MANY do buy) and yet not true - imagine that! go figure why that is!
Thanks for pointing that out. Unfortunately i am in one of those states. Getting an exemption is near impossible where i am.
I am happy for the people in the rest of the states that have it easier. Excellent point as to why they are not aware of how easy it would be to avoid vaccinations....
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#86 of 155 Old 09-02-2014, 02:56 PM
 
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I don't really follow the gluten free issue - bit I did stumble across this http://www.forbes.com/sites/rosspome...may-not-exist/

Which reports on a really rigorous sounding study in which people who claimed gluten sensitivity actually did not have any if they didn't know they were eating gluten. Interesting.

Also reports on how much money companies are making selling gluten free products these days.
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Thanks for the data from your single subject, non-blinded, non-controlled trial.

You seem unaware that people who have interest in the real non-placebo effects pay attention to blind controlled studies.
By interest, you mean a business agenda?

Because in the current model of allopathic medicine there is no gain to be had for pharma in acknowledging the benefits of a gluten-free diet in non-celiacs.

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#88 of 155 Old 09-02-2014, 03:43 PM
 
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http://www.forbes.com/sites/rosspome...may-not-exist/

Which reports on a really rigorous sounding study in which people who claimed gluten sensitivity actually did not have any if they didn't know they were eating gluten. Interesting.
From the study: "37 subjects took part......"

Well, there you have it. Science is settled!! 37 people are all you need to prove that people aren't really gluten sensitive!! Everyone dump your stocks, the fad is over!

 
 
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#89 of 155 Old 09-02-2014, 03:57 PM
 
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Also reports on how much money companies are making selling gluten free products these days.
Approx. $17B dollars in sales for Kosher foods (Wow, even Coke gets in on the act by putting yellow tops on their bottles to recognize Passover and indicate those bottles of Coke are made with real sugar)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larissaf...ig-food-trend/

How about sales of peanut-free products? Dairy-free products? Low sodium products? Formula? Baby cereals and jarred foods?

In the end, processed food is processed food. People can eat gluten-free without buying a whole bunch of processed foods.

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#90 of 155 Old 09-02-2014, 04:56 PM
 
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There are a lot of people who think that a choice between vaccination and pariah status is the way to go. No schooling. No access to parks or public libraries. No right to shop. Perhaps special ghettos for those who turn down vaccines? Badges with a needle with a line through it? How far would they like to go, anyway?
I have been told to go live on my own island somewhere in a cave.

Vaccine promoters are such kind, caring people!

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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