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#91 of 155 Old 09-02-2014, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post
I don't really follow the gluten free issue - bit I did stumble across this http://www.forbes.com/sites/rosspome...may-not-exist/

Which reports on a really rigorous sounding study in which people who claimed gluten sensitivity actually did not have any if they didn't know they were eating gluten. Interesting.

Also reports on how much money companies are making selling gluten free products these days.
When you stumbled did you actually happen to read all of it?

Like this part - Biesiekierski recognizes that gluten may very well be the stomach irritant we’ve been looking for. “There is definitely something going on,” she told RCS, “but true NCGS may only affect a very small number of people and may affect more extraintestinal symptoms than first thought. This will only be confirmed with an understanding of its mechanism.”

Currently, Biesiekierski is focused on maintaining an open mind and refining her experimental methods to determine whether or not non-celiac gluten sensitivity truly exists.

“We need to make sure that this research is as well controlled as possible and is reproducible,” Biesiekierski told RCS, subsequently adding the quintessential adage of proper science.

“Much, much more research is needed.”

 

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#92 of 155 Old 09-02-2014, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by beckybird View Post
From the study: "37 subjects took part......"

Well, there you have it. Science is settled!! 37 people are all you need to prove that people aren't really gluten sensitive!! Everyone dump your stocks, the fad is over!
Reminds me of that study that say ALL pregnant women should have the DTP! How many where in that study again? I keep for getting!

I love it! 37 is good enough but in other studies...........autism!
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#93 of 155 Old 09-02-2014, 06:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by serenbat View Post
BIG - assume you mean?
Are we now stooping so low as to correct one another's spelling errors? Because to me that takes the debate to a childish level.
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#94 of 155 Old 09-02-2014, 07:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Are we now stooping so low as to correct one another's spelling errors? Because to me that takes the debate to a childish level.
Details matter as we are told.
Perhaps you didn't see the question mark at the end---- I wanted to verify!

Thanks for adding to the topic!
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#95 of 155 Old 09-03-2014, 10:25 AM
 
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People in glass houses...

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#96 of 155 Old 09-03-2014, 11:23 AM
 
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<<Which reports on a really rigorous sounding study in which people who claimed gluten sensitivity actually did not have any if they didn't know they were eating gluten. Interesting.>>
Gluten sensitivity can manifest itself in so many ways. But as far as the above statement is concerned, this is not true of my son. Its very clear if he has ingested gluten, even when i was not aware he had.
Aah..., to be so well informed by skimming over that article of yours. Go do some real research.
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#97 of 155 Old 09-03-2014, 11:26 AM
 
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Originally Posted by TCMoulton View Post
Are we now stooping so low as to correct one another's spelling errors? Because to me that takes the debate to a childish level.

I think she was just making a clarification.

However, i do agree that correcting another's spelling does lower the level of debate. I lose respect instantly when people resort to that tactic. Correcting typos is even sillier.

However making a clarification is just a basic communication strategy.
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#98 of 155 Old 09-03-2014, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I

However making a clarification is just a basic communication strategy.
As I stated I was!

"Details matter" is often throw at anti-vaccers and with a member outside of the US, I add the ? mark!

Supporting vaccine yet have "issues" with BIG Pharma is a contraindication, IMO, so I wanted to be sure!!

Thought it was simple...
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#99 of 155 Old 09-03-2014, 12:46 PM
 
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However, i do agree that correcting another's spelling does lower the level of debate. I lose respect instantly when people resort to that tactic. Correcting typos is even sillier.
As a school teacher I have corrected others misspellings, poor punctuation, and grammar as a career choice.

We need clarity to communicate and to be precise.

Some people do not like correction since in the throes of a debate, a person misspell something and another person can use the opportunity to dig at the other person. It is a juxtaposition that cannot be won.

I always like to say that misspelling a word is a sign of vaccine damage, but that usually does not go over too well.
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#100 of 155 Old 09-03-2014, 01:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
As a school teacher I have corrected others misspellings, poor punctuation, and grammar as a career choice.

We need clarity to communicate and to be precise.

Some people do not like correction since in the throes of a debate, a person misspell something and another person can use the opportunity to dig at the other person. It is a juxtaposition that cannot be won.

I always like to say that misspelling a word is a sign of vaccine damage, but that usually does not go over too well.
Does this mean you feel that every spelling error should be pointed out and corrected?
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#101 of 155 Old 09-03-2014, 01:12 PM
 
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I always like to say that misspelling a word is a sign of vaccine damage, but that usually does not go over too well.
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#102 of 155 Old 09-03-2014, 01:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post
I'm so thankful to live today with modern medicine available if/when I need it.
I would be skeptical if I was you, but I am not sure how reliable this link and author is.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/01/op...-mistakes.html

That is why I like the Science channel motto:
"Science, question everything! " besides vaccines of course.
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#103 of 155 Old 09-03-2014, 02:08 PM
 
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Rogm - I enjoyed that article. Thanks for sharing.
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#104 of 155 Old 09-03-2014, 04:36 PM
 
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Are we now stooping so low as to correct one another's spelling errors? Because to me that takes the debate to a childish level.
What is the difference between correcting another's spelling errors and pointing out another's "childish level" of debate?

Either way, it's disparaging.
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#105 of 155 Old 09-03-2014, 04:45 PM
 
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What is the difference between correcting another's spelling errors and pointing out another's "childish level" of debate?

Either way, it's disparaging.
I wasn't debating - just stating my opinion (that several have agreed with) that pointing out simple spelling errors seems to bring the level of conversation down to that of an argument between school girls. Was the correction really necessary?

Do you really honestly believe that she didn't know the poster meant to type "big"?
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#106 of 155 Old 09-03-2014, 05:37 PM
 
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The query did not come across as nasty, frankly, but I think this thread is being derailed so I'm going to drop out.
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#107 of 155 Old 09-04-2014, 12:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
As a school teacher I have corrected others misspellings, poor punctuation, and grammar as a career choice.

We need clarity to communicate and to be precise.

Some people do not like correction since in the throes of a debate, a person misspell something and another person can use the opportunity to dig at the other person. It is a juxtaposition that cannot be won.

I always like to say that misspelling a word is a sign of vaccine damage, but that usually does not go over too well.

I think correcting another's error, if done tactfully is fine. I dont mind being corrected. I make plenty of typos, and sometimes misspell (that may have been mispelled, or misspelt), but someone picking misspellings as a means to demean one's opponent in an argument is another matter. It happened to me once, and found it really annoying, and that is why i have strong feelings about it.

However, this never happened here. And yes, this discussion has been completely derailed.
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#108 of 155 Old 09-04-2014, 12:33 PM
 
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Sorry. I did not mean to continue the derailment. I have been corrected in the past and it has helped me even if it was done with a mean spirit. I will be careful not to derail anymore.
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#109 of 155 Old 09-04-2014, 01:09 PM
 
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From the study: "37 subjects took part......"

Well, there you have it. Science is settled!! 37 people are all you need to prove that people aren't really gluten sensitive!! Everyone dump your stocks, the fad is over!
None of the 37 could detect whether they were eating gluten or not. That's a big enough study to confirm the likelihood that 95% or so are experiencing a nocebo effect. Could still be a small percentage in the sampled population who are not fooling themselves.

I guess you have never studied statistics? This is pretty simple.

Or do you think math is some kind of plot against believers?
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#110 of 155 Old 09-04-2014, 02:34 PM
 
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Or do you think math is some kind of plot against believers?
You are so suspicious. Maybe it is you who is the conspiracy theorist in this case.

Enjoy your study! Read it, and profess the truth to others. Gluten sensitivity is just an illusion, because 37 people proved it.

 
 
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#111 of 155 Old 09-04-2014, 03:41 PM
 
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And still...crickets...when it comes to addressing a CDC scientist admitting to manipulating/ hiding important data.

"Practically every food you buy in a store for consumption by humans is genetically modified food"
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#112 of 155 Old 09-04-2014, 06:52 PM
 
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None of the 37 could detect whether they were eating gluten or not. That's a big enough study to confirm the likelihood that 95% or so are experiencing a nocebo effect. Could still be a small percentage in the sampled population who are not fooling themselves.

I guess you have never studied statistics? This is pretty simple.

Or do you think math is some kind of plot against believers?
Apparently, that study was done by someone who knows nothing about intestinal issues related to gluten.

Did you read the study? The study participants were put on a "FODMAP" diet, which is NOT gluten-free (it can contain oats and spelt), nor is it dairy-free (though it is lactose-free). They were then given either a diet high in gluten, or a diet high in whey protein, BOTH OF WHICH are likely to cause intestinal problems for people with either celiac or gluten intolerance. Yes, lactose can be a problem for many people, but so can casein--and the FODMAPS diet is not casein-free, and can include cheese and yogurt.

It's not at all surprising that there was not a significant difference between the two groups, or even that a third group, who was given the FODMAP diet for both weeks, also complained of increased symptoms. If they had been on a gluten-free diet before the trials, and then were on a gluten-containing FODMAP diet, of course they'd have increased symptoms.

And you think it's scientific to conclude that this proves that gluten sensitivity doesn't exist?
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#113 of 155 Old 09-04-2014, 07:38 PM
 
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The description of that study reminds me of the one that was done many years ago to prove that food colorings do not provoke ADHD. Some doctor had theorized that something in food was causing the behavioral problems. He put kids on a no food colorings diet and had great success. Then someone did a study to debunk it and the approach went underground for many years, which was very profitable to the pharmaceutical approach to treating ADHD.

The study involved completely messing with the doctor's approach and allowing children to have exposures to food coloring as often as every 72 hours. There was no improvement in behavior.

Quite recently some Brits discovered that food colorings do indeed cause behavior problems in some kids. Whoops.

I should dig up more info on this instead of just going with my memory but it is late.
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#114 of 155 Old 09-04-2014, 08:02 PM
 
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That was Dr. Benjamin Feingold, MD. Why Your Child Is Hyperactive. It is from the early 1970s.

Amazon Amazon

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It was Red Dye mostly and Yellow Dye that were the culprits. From that book, I learned that even if you get a white cake, there is coloring still in it because a drop or two of say, blue coloring, will make the white whiter!
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#115 of 155 Old 09-04-2014, 08:04 PM
 
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Thanks Applejuice. I'm glad someone still has a functioning memory.

Pretty said for the millions of children who could have functioned okay without Ritalin if his work hadn't been trashed by a very bad study.
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#116 of 155 Old 09-04-2014, 08:19 PM
 
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Yes. I know.

It helps that I am in another time zone too!

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#117 of 155 Old 09-05-2014, 04:24 AM
 
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And still...crickets...when it comes to addressing a CDC scientist admitting to manipulating/ hiding important data.
They're all hoping this will go away...you can bet, they're scrambling to announce something huge that will send people scurrying for vaccines, something big enough to make people forget all about one little researcher. It's too quiet out there. Even Dorit has been unnaturally silent the last few days. I'm betting we'll hear about an Ebola outbreak in the US.
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#118 of 155 Old 09-05-2014, 05:49 AM
 
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Flu season is about to start and that is usually very good for some fearmongering. I monitor the flu propaganda down in NZ and Oz, and there are noises about it being a very bad year.
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#119 of 155 Old 09-05-2014, 07:25 AM
 
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Flu season is about to start and that is usually very good for some fearmongering. I monitor the flu propaganda down in NZ and Oz, and there are noises about it being a very bad year.
Yes, I already got an email in my inbox from a pharmacy chain where I picked up a prescription years ago, reminding me to "get my flu shot BEFORE the bad flu season begins"

It warned me that young children, elderly and pregnant women are at the "biggest risk" of contracting the flu, and that I need at least 2 weeks to respond to the shot before I get exposed to the flu...so act now.

I wanted to email back and let them know I am acting now..we all upped our vitamin D with the end of Summer coming in, are taking our 10 day round of echinacea I tinctured from my yard, and the kids have been reminded to wash their hands. I also have hearty cooler weather meals from scratch we will be nourishing with, and the kids have an added 1/2 hour of sleep to their routines. There's our "shot" of medicine.
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#120 of 155 Old 09-05-2014, 08:59 AM
 
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Apparently, that study was done by someone who knows nothing about intestinal issues related to gluten.

Did you read the study? The study participants were put on a "FODMAP" diet, which is NOT gluten-free (it can contain oats and spelt), nor is it dairy-free (though it is lactose-free). They were then given either a diet high in gluten, or a diet high in whey protein, BOTH OF WHICH are likely to cause intestinal problems for people with either celiac or gluten intolerance. Yes, lactose can be a problem for many people, but so can casein--and the FODMAPS diet is not casein-free, and can include cheese and yogurt.

It's not at all surprising that there was not a significant difference between the two groups, or even that a third group, who was given the FODMAP diet for both weeks, also complained of increased symptoms. If they had been on a gluten-free diet before the trials, and then were on a gluten-containing FODMAP diet, of course they'd have increased symptoms.

And you think it's scientific to conclude that this proves that gluten sensitivity doesn't exist?
Are you talking about this link?:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rosspome...may-not-exist/

You are conflating two different studies. One study was completely FODMAP and dairy free. It had 2 phases: baseline and treatment. Both the baseline and all treatment diets were completely FODMAP and dairy free. One of the treatment diets was a control: just a repetition of the baseline. But the subjects even reacted to the control diet, that's the kicker, it was a nocebo.

There was a separate study mentioned that showed that FODMAP causes upset stomachs, which is old news by the way.
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