Celebrities and their stance on vaccines - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 80 Old 03-05-2015, 10:59 AM
 
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Rumor is that the reason there are so many c/secs in Hollyweird is because so many of them have herpes.

I really do not know why, no do I care, but that is what I read. This reason makes more sense than complaining about paparazzi or not wanting surprises.

RE: Posh Spice - her husband has plenty of groupies, so he may have given her the gift that keeps giving.
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#32 of 80 Old 03-05-2015, 11:00 AM
 
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I like celebrities a little less when they describe themselves as non-vaccinating. I think they're likely making a decision that will make the public health a little worse, and then compounding that decision by making it public while knowing that others may be encouraged to follow their example. I will still watch them if I like their work otherwise.

As for pro-vaccine celebrities, I don't have much feeling one way or another. Though if they do something entertaining with respect to a pro-vaccine stance (e.g., Jimmy Kimmel), that might make me like them a little more.
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#33 of 80 Old 03-05-2015, 11:02 AM
 
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Now remember guys...I didn't start this thread to see if you would be swayed on your decision to vaccinate or not if a certain celebrity has a particular viewpoint. I know none of us do that here. The point of the thread is to see if your opinion of a celebrity that you like would diminish if that said celebrity has a polar opposite viewpoint as you do when it comes to vaccinating.
I guess depends on the message. Some celebs are vocally against the 2nd but are out on movies blowing up people, i think that sends the wrong message.
But if Amanda Pete did an Oscar winning movie, I would probably watch it.
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Rumor is that the reason there are so many c/secs in Hollyweird is because so many of them have herpes.

I really do not know why, no do I care, but that is what I read. This reason makes more sense than complaining about paparazzi or not wanting surprises.

RE: Posh Spice - her husband has plenty of groupies, so he may have given her the gift that keeps giving.
We aren't talking about the Jelly of the Month club, are we, Ms Applejuice?

Good times. Definitely not the folks to follow on health care decisions!
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#35 of 80 Old 03-05-2015, 11:05 AM
 
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Now remember guys...I didn't start this thread to see if you would be swayed on your decision to vaccinate or not if a certain celebrity has a particular viewpoint. I know none of us do that here. The point of the thread is to see if your opinion of a celebrity that you like would diminish if that said celebrity has a polar opposite viewpoint as you do when it comes to vaccinating.
Hmmmm... I think it depends on what they have to say. If what is coming out of their mouth is absolute nonsensical rubbish and indicates that they are making a completely uneducated opinion, then I think poorly about them. I really don't care whether one vaccinates or not as long as they are making the best informed decision they can for what fits in their life.
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#36 of 80 Old 03-05-2015, 11:09 AM
 
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Rumor is that the reason there are so many c/secs in Hollyweird is because so many of them have herpes.

I really do not know why, no do I care, but that is what I read. This reason makes more sense than complaining about paparazzi or not wanting surprises.

[/I].
I was going to mention herpes as one possible reason people choose c section vs vaginal delivery without wanting to disclose why.

It can be extremely dangerous to have a vaginal birth while having an active herpes outbreak.

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#37 of 80 Old 03-05-2015, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I like celebrities a little less when they describe themselves as non-vaccinating.

As for pro-vaccine celebrities, I don't have much feeling one way or another. Though if they do something entertaining with respect to a pro-vaccine stance (e.g., Jimmy Kimmel), that might make me like them a little more.

Yes, that's how I feel, just vice versa. I am surprised at some of the celebs coming out against vaccines, or at least questioning them, who I had no idea. I knew of some of them but like I said don't follow celebs too closely anymore, so I had been out of the loop regarding that.
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#38 of 80 Old 03-05-2015, 11:11 AM
 
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Of course. I've never ever argued that we should hold people down and vaccinate them against their will. That doesn't happen here except in extremely rare circumstances.
But you did say you would sue them...
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But you did say you would sue them...
Freedom of choice =/= freedom from consequence.

As an example: I think a person has every right to go on a racist or homophobic rant, but their employer also has the right to fire them for that rant. Consequence.

As another example: A person has every right to not take their seizure medication, but refusing to do so can also mean they are not legally allowed to drive a car. Consequence.
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#40 of 80 Old 03-05-2015, 11:16 AM
 
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Freedom of choice =/= freedom from consequence.
Would love to see a case like that, even the CDC can't figure out patient 0 on disney's outbreak.
sorry for going OT.
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#41 of 80 Old 03-05-2015, 11:39 AM
 
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But you did say you would sue them...
Not sure why there seems to be this idea that only patient zero can be sued during an outbreak.

Not vaccinating your children greatly increases the chance that they will contract a disease if exposed and thus spread that disease, whether you are patient zero or not is irrelevant.

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#42 of 80 Old 03-05-2015, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Rumor is that the reason there are so many c/secs in Hollyweird is because so many of them have herpes.

I really do not know why, no do I care, but that is what I read. This reason makes more sense than complaining about paparazzi or not wanting surprises.

RE: Posh Spice - her husband has plenty of groupies, so he may have given her the gift that keeps giving.

I had to look up herpes and celebrities. I had no idea, and yes, a lot of them apparently have herpes. Aren't they a harm to the herd with their herpes? Why aren't they ostracized like those who don't vaccinate? Herpes is not normally a life-threatening virus but neither is measles nor chickenpox.

ETA: Wait, a vaccine may be on the way!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...n_6791538.html
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#43 of 80 Old 03-05-2015, 11:43 AM
 
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I'm sure people ARE ostracized for having herpes.
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#44 of 80 Old 03-05-2015, 11:45 AM
 
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I had to look up herpes and celebrities. I had no idea, and yes, a lot of them apparently have herpes. Aren't they a harm to the herd with their herpes? Why aren't they ostracized like those who don't vaccinate? Herpes is not normally a life-threatening virus but neither is measles nor chickenpox.

ETA: Wait, a vaccine may be on the way!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...n_6791538.html
Herpes is common in general, 1 out of every 6 people aged 14-49 in the US has herpes. http://www.cdc.gov/std/herpes/stdfact-herpes.htm

It's not spread through casual contact like most VPDs are, though. You're not going to get herpes by being in the same grocery store as someone with herpes in other words.

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Not sure why there seems to be this idea that only patient zero can be sued during an outbreak.

Not vaccinating your children greatly increases the chance that they will contract a disease if exposed and spread that disease, whether you are patient zero or not is irrelevant.
Because the 3 year old you are suing could also sue the person they got the infection from, and on and on, sounds silly doesn't it?
Unless you believe the unvax sprouts diseases, which you would have to prove... I know, more silliness.
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I'm okay with freedom of choice and consequences if it flows both ways.

Drug companies, doctors, nurses, clinics, everyone from top to bottom who delivers a vaccine to anyone at any time can be sued if there is a bad outcome.

One side having the protection and the other side having all the consequences seems just a trifle unbalanced. Especially if you add in vaccine mandates for jobs and schools and vaccines being profitable.

I've said it before. I would be okay with two out of three.

No mandates. Liability protection. Vaccine profits.

Mandates. No liability protection. Vaccine profits.

Mandates. Liability protection. No profits.

But ya know, I don't think any company would manufacture vaccines for the US market unless they mostly had all three.

Merck was super disappointed that they weren't able to get Gardasil mandated. This has seriously hurt their bottom line, and despite multiple marketing studies the vaccine continues to be a hard sell. People don't seem to believe Merck when they say the vaccine is safe.
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#47 of 80 Old 03-05-2015, 11:50 AM
 
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Because the 3 year old you are suing could also sue the person they got the infection from, and on and on, sounds silly doesn't it?
Unless you believe the unvax sprouts diseases, which you would have to prove... I know, more silliness.
Not if the child was unvaccinated by parental choice, since the parents knew the risks when making that choice.

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#48 of 80 Old 03-05-2015, 11:53 AM
 
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Drug companies, doctors, nurses, clinics, everyone from top to bottom who delivers a vaccine to anyone at any time can be sued if there is a bad outcome.
Sure, if you could show they did something illegal or negligent when administering or storing the vaccine.

If they followed proper protocol and had legal consent from the parents, you can't sue.

Anymore than you could sue a doctor who properly prescribed an antibiotic that a child just happened to have an allergic reaction to.

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Not if the child was unvaccinated by parental choice, since the parents knew the risks.
Ah, so in your opinion, one can only sue if you got the disease from a person that was unvaccinated by choice? nothing to do with immunity or purged medical records?
So if I gave you measles and say: i was vaxed in another country and dont have my records, I would not be liable?
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#50 of 80 Old 03-05-2015, 11:57 AM
 
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Ah, so in your opinion, one can only sue if you got the disease from a person that was unvaccinated by choice?
Correct. If a child was too young to be vaccinated or had a medical exemption there would not be a case or basis for a lawsuit.

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#51 of 80 Old 03-05-2015, 12:03 PM
 
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Correct. If a child was too young to be vaccinated or had a medical exemption there would not be a case or basis for a lawsuit.
Looks like you missed the second part of my question.
"nothing to do with immunity or purged medical records?
So if I gave you measles and say: i was vaxed in another country and dont have my records, I would not be liable?
"

So only children would be sued? no adults that didnt vaccinate?
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Well, I see a huge opportunity for suing the US government for the latest measles outbreak and also all the medical organizations that endorsed the single dose measles schedule. Because, there are all these adults who got a single dose of the measles vaccine and are coming down with measles.

I don't think saying "we meant well" or "we thought we knew what we were doing" gets them off the hook.

Plus, there have been a lot of years to chase down all those people who only got single doses, or who got vaccines that weren't effective for one reason or another and it doesn't look as though the CDC or anyone else has made a serious effort to get the gap sorted out.

Looks to me like just another load of silliness to blame everything on vaccine critical parents while relieving the truly responsible parties who majorly screwed up from any blame at all.

Anyone understand why I don't trust the vaccine enthusiasts? You can drive a Mack Truck through some of their arguments, but don't expect anyone to ever admit to being wrong about anything.
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#53 of 80 Old 03-05-2015, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Sure, if you could show they did something illegal or negligent when administering or storing the vaccine.

.

Well, that's a start.

Many years ago, two families in Japan did that very same thing, sued the government, and they won, regarding the MMR:

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/200.../#.VPjEqMLVCos

"The government and a research center affiliated with Osaka University were handed a court order Thursday to pay a total of 155 million yen to the families of two children who died or suffered side effects after receiving the MMR vaccine.

The Osaka District Court stated that the institute produced the vaccine via a method different from that submitted to the health ministry and was the likely reason for the ensuing problems.

He added that the government neglected its responsibility over the supervision of vaccine manufacturers and for ensuring that they follow the Pharmaceutical Affairs Law."

Is there a lawsuit regarding all of those Syrian children dying from the contaminated measles vaccine during the measles vaccine campaign late last year? That was negligent as well.

If we dig, I know there are many more cases of negligence, improper storage, etc.

Government Study Finds that Some Vaccines for Kids Are Stored Improperly

Careless practices? Yes, very much so:

http://healthland.time.com/2012/06/0...ed-improperly/

"In addition to inconsistent temperatures, they also found that expired vaccines were stored alongside unexpired vaccines in some clinics, which could lead to a nurse inadvertently grabbing the wrong inoculation. “We were surprised we found what we did,” says Dwayne Grant, the regional inspector general who oversaw the report."

So, they conclude that improper storage, which seems to be fairly common, is not affecting potency of vaccines just because there have not been any major outbreaks? There does not appear to be any data backing that up. It's speculation.

Should people be able to sue if they are vaccinated with an improperly-stored vaccine (confirmed) and come down with the disease they were vaccinated against due to the ineffectiveness of the vaccine?
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#54 of 80 Old 03-05-2015, 01:48 PM
 
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Japan does not give the MMR. It gives the mumps separately from the MR. Japan also delays vaccines, has used the aP since 1971, does not recommend Gardasil, and has been consistently higher on the world IMR chart since these decisions were made.

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#55 of 80 Old 03-05-2015, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Japan does not give the MMR. It gives the mumps separately from the MR. .

Yes, MMR banned in 1993 in Japan due to all of the adverse reactions, meningitis, death, and others. Parents who refused were fined.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...R-vaccine.html
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Now remember guys...I didn't start this thread to see if you would be swayed on your decision to vaccinate or not if a certain celebrity has a particular viewpoint. I know none of us do that here. The point of the thread is to see if your opinion of a celebrity that you like would diminish if that said celebrity has a polar opposite viewpoint as you do when it comes to vaccinating.
When I see a celebrity come out as pro-vaccine, i often woder if it is a bit of a publicity gimmick. Oh - look how caring they are - they are trying to protect babies! They could very well be sincerely pro-vax, but I do think it is sometimes a bit of a gimmick.

That being said, I do not care if a celbrity is pro-vax, as long as they are also pro-vaccine choice. If they want to take away parental choice or engage in shaming/ad hominem attacks against non-vaxxers, then I have little respect for them.

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#57 of 80 Old 03-05-2015, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That being said, I do not care if a celbrity is pro-vax, as long as they are also pro-vaccine choice. If they want to take away parental choice or engage in shaming/ad hominem attacks against non-vaxxers, then I have little respect for them.

So, I assume Amanda Peet is not high up on your list either
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Correct. If a child was too young to be vaccinated or had a medical exemption there would not be a case or basis for a lawsuit.
Why not? People who cannot be vaccinated can carry and spread disease just as easy as those unvaccinated by choice. If you deliberately bring your unvaxxed baby or immune compromised child out knowing they could get and spread disease, I say you can be sued.

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Sue em' baby! It makes the world go round'!

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More celebrity satire on vaccines, Conan O'Brien, who I always thought was pretty funny and used to enjoy his show (haven't watched in ages), joined Kimmel with a clip of his own, a daycare with vaccinated children and unvaccinated children, where unvaccinated children are in a bubble, while the vaccinated run free. I think what that shows besides isolation is that those who are vaccinated do not feel confident that the vaccines will protect them, or else why would unvaccinated children be such a threat; they certainly shouldn't need to be "bubbled," right?

And we know Dr. Oz supports vaccines himself but he has been clear that his wife doesn't vaccinate (not sure if that's completely or she selectively vaccinates) and is the decision-maker in the family. I guess he wasn't able to talk her into getting them, being a doctor and all. Not sure anything has changed with that since then.
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