Quality of Science on HPV vaccines presented in Japan - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 20 Old 10-10-2015, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quality of Science on HPV vaccines presented in Japan

http://sanevax.org/japan-hpv-vaccine-controversy/

This article includes a timeline and a list of the science presented to the Japanese government which was used to develop the decision to continue the suspension of the recommendation for the HPV vaccines.

I'd like people's thoughts on the science presented and whether it is good or not. Please, no attacks on the scientists, let's just discuss what they actually presented. Does it hold together?
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#2 of 20 Old 10-10-2015, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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14 June 2013 – Japan suspended their recommendation for both HPV vaccines after discovering the adverse events reported after Gardasil and Cervarix were between 1.7 and 3.6 times higher than the other two vaccines which had just been added to the recommended schedule. The government wanted time to obtain a more complete picture of HPV vaccine side effects. This meant that medical consumers in Japan could still obtain HPV vaccines should they so desire, but prior to administration the provider had to inform the patient that the vaccine was NOT recommended by the government.
The vaccine was made available in March. Very quick collection of adverse events and a rapid response to concerns.
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#3 of 20 Old 10-10-2015, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Above all – every country in the world needs to encourage open and honest scientific debate regarding HPV vaccines. Just think about it, If HPV vaccines are half as good as they claim to be – public debate should be no problem.
Contrast this with the condemnation of this researcher for discussing concerns about the safety and usefulness of the vaccines. http://www.vancouversun.com/health/c...266/story.html

Quote:
Experts say Rail’s public attacks are seriously misinformed and risk undermining an important public-health program — and they question why the Canadian Institute for Health Research (CIHR) would fund her work.
Obviously, in Canada, public debate is seen as a problem. Do they really think that a discussion of the HPV vaccines is that dangerous?
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#4 of 20 Old 10-10-2015, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
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The work of the scientists is at the bottom of the article. There are four scientists and each of them described particular problems.

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#5 of 20 Old 10-10-2015, 02:52 PM
 
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Thanks for posting this @Deborah . Very interesting to see the actual timeline and how soon they discovered something was amiss with the vaccine and decided to remove the recommendation to the public, allowing the public to make their own decision regarding the vaccine.

I found this particularly interesting, submitted by Dr. Tomljenovic:

Quote:
Conclusions: The presence of foreign antigenic material in the central nervous system can trigger adverse inflammatory and immune-mediated manifestations. Normally, vaccine antigens are not expected to cross the blood-brain barrier. The finding of HPV-16L1 intra and perivascular immuno-positive cells in the brains of these two cases suffering unexpected and sudden death following Gardasil vaccination is thus of concern.
We haven't discussed the use of polysorbate 80. Polysorbate 80 is used in pharmaceuticals, frequently used in CNS drug formulations, to enhance the delivery of chemicals from the blood into the brain across the blood brain barrier (BBB). Being that the BBB is imperable to many things, polysorbate 80 is one they found that can actually be used to cross that barrier to treat brain maladies, severe brain infections, tumors, etc. Is the use of polysorbate 80 in vaccines allowing other vaccine adjuvants , antigens, etc., to cross and disrupt the BBB, causing toxicity and inflammation into the brain of children (and even sudden death as found by the researcher above) and permanently altering the brain's activity? If polysorbate 80 is one avenue used to cross the BBB, and if this is present in vaccines, where is evidence that it's not bringing along with it to cross the barrier all of the other ingredients in vaccines and causing damage to the brain?

I don't want to get off track but wanted to mention this because these are, in my opinion, good questions formed by a doctor who is not convinced polysorbate 80 is exempt from creating problems in vaccines. Can anyone answer these questions?

Quote:
Since vaccines contain polysorbate 80, we can ask the following questions;
1) What vaccine materials get across the BBB, with the help of polysorbate 80, into the brain of children? and
2) What effect do they have once they get into the brain? Do they contribute to inflammation, toxicity, encephalitis?

Since polysorbate 80 works as an emulsifier, and will also enhance the delivery of vaccine materials into the rest of the cells of the body,
3) What vaccine materials enter the cells of our bodies?
4) Do they remain in the cells once they get in there?
5) Do they impair any parts of the cells, i.e, mitochondrial DNA, nuclear DNA, or other cellular apparatuses - endoplasmic reticulum, golgi apparatus?
6) Do they become part of the DNA of the cells since there are whole DNA strands from live viruses in the vaccines, along with foreign animal DNA and bacterial/viral/yeast protein antigens?
7) If they do become part of the DNA, how does this change the function and/or regulatory systems in the cells?
8) Do the materials from vaccines (e.g. aluminum, mercury, formaldehyde) entering through the cell membranes at the hands of polysorbate 80 do anything to impair the electrical charge of the cell membrane, or impair/alter the way materials enter or exit the cell through the cell membrane (nutrients, cellular wastes, manufactured proteins, or enzymes?

Since babies have a poorly developed BBB, which may not solidify for at least the first 6 months, or maybe longer if they have a brewing inflammatory condition yet to be determined that has delayed the full development of the BBB, then questions 3-8 apply to their brains as well.

We don't know the answers to most/all of these questions because studies have never been done to evaluate them.
http://www.drpalevsky.com/articles_p...n_Vaccines.asp
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#6 of 20 Old 10-10-2015, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Good points, thank you!

I was very impressed, too, by the quick response of the Japanese authorities to the "signal" of adverse reactions.

I wonder if someone has an explanation of why this vaccine produces weird delusions of illness in girls, or, alternately, why the rate of coincidence disorder is so high following these vaccines.
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#7 of 20 Old 10-10-2015, 05:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
Contrast this with the condemnation of this researcher for discussing concerns about the safety and usefulness of the vaccines. http://www.vancouversun.com/health/c...266/story.html



Obviously, in Canada, public debate is seen as a problem. Do they really think that a discussion of the HPV vaccines is that dangerous?
Of course public debate about this vaccine will be seen as a problem anywhere when you have pharma ties (as does the doctor quoted in the article) :

Quote:
Marc Steben, quadrivalent vaccine investigator: “Dr. Steben, consulting fees, advisory board fees, and lecture fees from Digene, Merck Frosst, GlaxoSmithKline, and Roche Diagnostics and grant support from Merck Frosst and GlaxoSmithKline.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21491420
http://www.nogracias.eu/wp-content/u..._201212101.pdf

But it may be an even bigger problem in Quebec, which is the only province to compensate for vaccine injury.
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#8 of 20 Old 10-10-2015, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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No wonder that doctor sounded so outraged! The prof is biting the hand that feeds him!
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#9 of 20 Old 10-18-2015, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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boosting this again in case anyone wants to discuss the science.
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#10 of 20 Old 10-18-2015, 06:26 PM
 
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I don't specifically want to discuss the science, but the HPV vaccine makes me uncomfortable. They pushed it through too quickly and I really do not support making it compulsory for minors in any way. It makes no sense to. This isn't like the flu that can be spread through the air and create an epidemic with people who had no direct contact with an infected person. There is no reason to make this mandatory.

You can protect yourself from HPV through safe sex practices, and the "HPV vaccine" doesn't even protect against all strains of HPV! It's still entirely possible to get HPV and cervical cancer, and I'm definitely concerned about the risk a false sense of security can bring.

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#11 of 20 Old 10-18-2015, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by sillysapling View Post
I don't specifically want to discuss the science, but the HPV vaccine makes me uncomfortable. They pushed it through too quickly and I really do not support making it compulsory for minors in any way. It makes no sense to. This isn't like the flu that can be spread through the air and create an epidemic with people who had no direct contact with an infected person. There is no reason to make this mandatory.

You can protect yourself from HPV through safe sex practices, and the "HPV vaccine" doesn't even protect against all strains of HPV! It's still entirely possible to get HPV and cervical cancer, and I'm definitely concerned about the risk a false sense of security can bring.
That seems to be a common set of concerns around these vaccines. Even people who mostly vaccinate often are uncomfortable about the way these vaccines have been tested and promoted.

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#12 of 20 Old 10-18-2015, 06:55 PM
 
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We do mostly vax, and this one is just not cool with me. I wouldn't be averse to the option (provided it was adequately tested and legit), but in some places it's mandatory.

It's also sexist. Some states have only required girls to get it, it's being pushed on girls. But boys can carry the virus- they're usually the ones that infect girls, after all. Boys also can get penile and anal cancer from HPV (not sure which strains). So why all the focus on girls?
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#13 of 20 Old 10-18-2015, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think the first tests were done on girls and the license was for girls. Now the vaccines are licensed for both and are being pushed on both boys and girls.
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#14 of 20 Old 10-19-2015, 04:53 AM
 
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It's still being pushed on girls more, and it's still really messed up that they only tested/licensed it for girls when it effects everyone. Imagine if they released a swine flu vaccine that wasn't licensed for men- there'd be outrage!

I'm sure they have an excuse, but it's still sexist and disturbing to push a questionably safe vaccine on pre-teen girls (they suggest getting it at 11) like this.
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#15 of 20 Old 10-19-2015, 05:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Totally agree @sillysapling ! Almost enough to make me question the honesty and probity of the drug companies and the regulatory agencies. <sarcasm>
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#16 of 20 Old 10-22-2015, 07:27 PM
 
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Damn, dinners and incentives aren't working (Deb feel free to move this to where ever!)

http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content...-0326.abstract

Quote:
Results: A sizeable minority of physicians reported that they do not strongly endorse HPV vaccine (27%) or deliver timely recommendations for girls (26%) or boys (39%). Many physicians (59%) used a risk-based approach to recommending HPV vaccine, and only half (51%) usually recommended same-day vaccination. Overall recommendation quality was lower among physicians who were uncomfortable talking about HPV vaccine or who believed parents did not value it. Quality was higher among physicians who began discussions by saying the child was due for HPV vaccine versus giving information or eliciting questions.
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2015...communication/

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-s...he-hpv-vaccine

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Amazing the number of marketing studies that have been generated about this vaccine.

Equally amazing the limited number of cases studies of reactions published about this vaccine. How in the world are they going to figure out:

1) the background rates of the various illnesses that are appearing coincidentally following vaccinations if they don't do any case studies? You can't do diagnoses based on newspaper stories, really!

2) how to do big studies to explain away reactions if they don't know what sort of reactions to explain away?
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#18 of 20 Old 10-22-2015, 07:42 PM
 
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Amazing the number of marketing studies that have been generated about this vaccine.

Equally amazing the limited number of cases studies of reactions published about this vaccine. How in the world are they going to figure out:

1) the background rates of the various illnesses that are appearing coincidentally following vaccinations if they don't do any case studies? You can't do diagnoses based on newspaper stories, really!

2) how to do big studies to explain away reactions if they don't know what sort of reactions to explain away?
Yea, aren't these Dr buying all the "studies"???? really makes one wonder! When you can't get Dr.s to push it.......................ouch!

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#19 of 20 Old 10-22-2015, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yea, aren't these Dr buying all the "studies"???? really makes one wonder! When you can't get Dr.s to push it.......................ouch!
It looks like the doctors don't want to talk about sex.

But...they are pushing the vaccines for kids who they think might be sexually active or on the verge of becoming sexually active.

I get the feeling that doctors have mixed feelings about this vaccine.

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#20 of 20 Old 10-22-2015, 08:01 PM
 
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It looks like the doctors don't want to talk about sex.

But...they are pushing the vaccines for kids who they think might be sexually active or on the verge of becoming sexually active.

I get the feeling that doctors have mixed feelings about this vaccine.
Not for the "greater" good????

Somehow these Dr.s are not seeing the risk they are putting their patients lives in jeopardy of!? They aren't getting with the program!

Or they are holding out for more incentives!!!!!!

My takes is, (like it or not PRO vaccers) MANY Dr. aren't in favor of ALL vaccines like the PRO Agenda leads up to believe!

IF they trusted and thought this was sooooooooo important they would learn to push it and it ain't happen!!!!!! Oh and those same Dr are the first ones that get to see those who "are no longer themselves" after the vaccine too..................everything happens for a reason!

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