Corrupt system not just around vaccines - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 243 Old 01-25-2016, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Corrupt system not just around vaccines

Just started reading this book tonight. The author describes how various organizations that focus on environmental management have ended up dominated by key people from the likes of Monsanto and Dow Chemical. These people are able to influence policies and guidelines and federal funding to keep money flowing into chemical management of invasive species--which just happens to be immensely profitable for Monsanto and Dow. The same companies put mountains of money into schools of agriculture at land-grant colleges, guaranteeing a flow of research that (big surprise) confirms the necessity of using lots and lots of chemicals to "protect the environment."

The parallels with the pharma industry and the vaccine system are obvious.

The book looks excellent, by the way.

http://www.chelseagreen.com/beyond-t...vasive-species

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#2 of 243 Old 01-26-2016, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I left off the title! Beyond the War on Invasive Species: A Permaculture Approach to Ecosystem Restoration by Tao Orion.

The book continues to be fascinating and there are a lot of parallels with vaccination. For example, pesticides and herbicides include what are referred to as "adjuvants" which are supposed to make them work better. These are also sometimes called "inert" ingredients and don't have to be revealed to the purchaser in some cases.

There is also a general attitude that particular substances are either toxic or not toxic and if they aren't toxic there is nothing to worry about. Whether they are toxic when combined is mostly not known, and whether they have unexpected effects on the environment, animals or people is mostly not known.

Let's take glyphosate. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15012217

This herbicide interferes with something called the Shikimic Pathway.
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The shikimate pathway is found only in microorganisms and plants, never in animals. All enzymes of this pathway have been obtained in pure form from prokaryotic and eukaryotic sources and their respective DNAs have been characterized from several organisms.
Microorganisms...well gosh, turns out that human beings are stuffed to the gills with microorganisms, many essential to our health and well-being. And here we are, spreading millions of tons of glyphosate through the environment where it can interfere with soil microorganisms and human microorganisms and animal microorganisms in addition to messing with plants (the only intended targets).

So obvious toxicity isn't the only problem with glyphosate and with other herbicides and pesticides.

If anyone wants some of the citations from the book let me know. There is apparently plenty of good, peer-reviewed science showing problems with glyphosate. Who woulda guessed?

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#3 of 243 Old 01-26-2016, 09:39 PM
 
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Can't wait to read the book! Sounds fascinating!

Have you seen the doc Cowspiracy?
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#4 of 243 Old 01-27-2016, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Nope, I'll have a look around.
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#5 of 243 Old 01-27-2016, 07:47 AM
 
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There is apparently plenty of good, peer-reviewed science showing problems with glyphosate. Who woulda guessed?
I dunno, victims of agent orange?
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#6 of 243 Old 01-27-2016, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I dunno, victims of agent orange?
Not for the GMO defenders.

Let me find an example.

I went right to the top. Monsanto. http://www.monsanto.com/glyphosate/p...sate-safe.aspx

And here is the other side http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew...b_4810311.html

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#7 of 243 Old 01-28-2016, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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It is also very interesting to see how a scientific consensus has been constructed around the need to eradicate "invasive" species and how the need for eradication justifies heavy use of chemicals, big equipment and overwhelming force.

Quite similar, in fact, to the drive to eradicate various diseases, without looking at the bigger picture of why diseases emerge, why they cause severe complications and death (or not) and what the possible problems might be if a disease is removed from the human ecosystem. Lots of consensus in both cases, but not always a clear understanding of the context.

To give a specific example, mumps was considered a minor childhood illness and a bit of a nuisance for anyone over the age of puberty who had it. Very, very rarely it would result in complications and even more rarely in death. After the vaccine was created, the sensible option, giving the vaccine to pre-teens who had not had mumps, wasn't considered, but instead the vaccine was combined with two other live virus vaccines and rolled out for the entire population. To justify this expenditure and added risk (all vaccines come with risk), mumps was turned from a mild childhood illness into a scary disease that had to be "eradicated" or suppressed. The danger of sterility was inflated and the fact that the risk was almost nonexistent in children was blurred.

The similarity to the way in which "invasive" species of plants are demonized without looking at the context is striking. The author of the book I linked in the OP points out that it isn't just the nature of the plant that makes them invasive. It is a changing environment. Warmer? More saline? More polluted? Development pressures? Sometimes an invasive species might be helpful in a deteriorating environment because they are best able to cope with the mess. Or, human intervention might be needed to find a local species with similar qualities that might be able to fill the niche with a bit of support.

Measles is not super deadly in some contexts and it is a disaster in other contexts. But you would never know that from the way it is demonized. Context doesn't matter. Measles is DANGEROUS!

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#8 of 243 Old 01-28-2016, 06:11 PM
 
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It is also very interesting to see how a scientific consensus has been constructed around the need to eradicate "invasive" species and how the need for eradication justifies heavy use of chemicals, big equipment and overwhelming force.

Quite similar, in fact, to the drive to eradicate various diseases, without looking at the bigger picture of why diseases emerge, why they cause severe complications and death (or not) and what the possible problems might be if a disease is removed from the human ecosystem. Lots of consensus in both cases, but not always a clear understanding of the context.

To give a specific example, mumps was considered a minor childhood illness and a bit of a nuisance for anyone over the age of puberty who had it. Very, very rarely it would result in complications and even more rarely in death. After the vaccine was created, the sensible option, giving the vaccine to pre-teens who had not had mumps, wasn't considered, but instead the vaccine was combined with two other live virus vaccines and rolled out for the entire population. To justify this expenditure and added risk (all vaccines come with risk), mumps was turned from a mild childhood illness into a scary disease that had to be "eradicated" or suppressed. The danger of sterility was inflated and the fact that the risk was almost nonexistent in children was blurred.

The similarity to the way in which "invasive" species of plants are demonized without looking at the context is striking. The author of the book I linked in the OP points out that it isn't just the nature of the plant that makes them invasive. It is a changing environment. Warmer? More saline? More polluted? Development pressures? Sometimes an invasive species might be helpful in a deteriorating environment because they are best able to cope with the mess. Or, human intervention might be needed to find a local species with similar qualities that might be able to fill the niche with a bit of support.

Measles is not super deadly in some contexts and it is a disaster in other contexts. But you would never know that from the way it is demonized. Context doesn't matter. Measles is DANGEROUS!

Thanks for the book suggestion! I will add it to my list. I find it interesting this idea of destroying invasive species - whatever they may be and the idea of excess force. That's sort of the tale of the United States (and probably other places as well,...). The settlers had to tame the woods and plains from wild animals (buffalo, bears, etc.), the land had to be domesticated with suburbs and agriculture, viruses & bacteria have to killed off (sanitizers), invasive plants have to be doused in chemicals, grass has to be doused in chemicals and then fertilized to maintain the illusion of vitality and health - nothing is subtle or noninvasive in this culture: medicine, media, nutrition, military, etc.

I suppose it also could be reflected in the stereotypical cultural personality people from the US have - loud, aggressive, nothing subtle or nuanced or thoughtful,....
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#9 of 243 Old 01-28-2016, 07:29 PM
 
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I greatly enjoyed reading this post and have to agree that the parallels are definitely there. When any company gets so big from buying out the competition, it seems greed steers their progress. Gotta love capitalism.

In regards to killing off weeds, just consider the milkweed getting killed off with all the other weeds. Look how much damage that has caused to the monarch butterfly. It once grew in the ditches, the voids, the spacing between rows, field trips edges and now that every nook and cranny is sprayed, its dwindling along with the monarchs.

Grass is a fickle thing to tend to. we stopped seeding and fertilizing because its such a ridiculous American standard and i refuse to spend money on lawn service. The great thing about letting the weeds grow is that theyre native, require no maintenance, look green and pretty when mowed, change with the season(cool to warm varieties), and we have plenty to pick for chicken food.

@Deborah
you'd probably enjoy the historical accounts of this very topic in the book,

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#10 of 243 Old 01-28-2016, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I greatly enjoyed reading this post and have to agree that the parallels are definitely there. When any company gets so big from buying out the competition, it seems greed steers their progress. Gotta love capitalism.

In regards to killing off weeds, just consider the milkweed getting killed off with all the other weeds. Look how much damage that has caused to the monarch butterfly. It once grew in the ditches, the voids, the spacing between rows, field trips edges and now that every nook and cranny is sprayed, its dwindling along with the monarchs.

Grass is a fickle thing to tend to. we stopped seeding and fertilizing because its such a ridiculous American standard and i refuse to spend money on lawn service. The great thing about letting the weeds grow is that theyre native, require no maintenance, look green and pretty when mowed, change with the season(cool to warm varieties), and we have plenty to pick for chicken food.

@Deborah
you'd probably enjoy the historical accounts of this very topic in the book,

Toxic Sludge is Good for You
Thanks for the recommendation and the interesting commentary!
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#11 of 243 Old 01-29-2016, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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For those who aren't interested so much in GMOs and invasive plants, here is an example from pharma central. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/heal...iew-finds.html

Quote:
The review - the biggest oif its kind into the effects of the drugs - was carried out by the Nordic Cochrane Centre and analysed by University College London (UCL) who today endorse the findings in an editorial in the British Medical Journal (BMJ).
After comparing clinical trial information to actual patient reports the scientists found pharmaceutical companies had regularly misclassified deaths and suicidal events in people taking anti-depressants to "favour their products".
Experts said the review's findings were "startling" and said it was "deeply worrying" that clinical trials appear to have been misreported.
And we know that vaccine clinical trials haven't been misrepresented? How?
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#12 of 243 Old 01-29-2016, 09:42 PM
 
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I greatly enjoyed reading this post and have to agree that the parallels are definitely there. When any company gets so big from buying out the competition, it seems greed steers their progress. Gotta love capitalism.

In regards to killing off weeds, just consider the milkweed getting killed off with all the other weeds. Look how much damage that has caused to the monarch butterfly. It once grew in the ditches, the voids, the spacing between rows, field trips edges and now that every nook and cranny is sprayed, its dwindling along with the monarchs.

Grass is a fickle thing to tend to. we stopped seeding and fertilizing because its such a ridiculous American standard and i refuse to spend money on lawn service. The great thing about letting the weeds grow is that theyre native, require no maintenance, look green and pretty when mowed, change with the season(cool to warm varieties), and we have plenty to pick for chicken food.

@Deborah
you'd probably enjoy the historical accounts of this very topic in the book,

Toxic Sludge is Good for You
I was thinking of milkweed too. And where I live we are having a drought and everyone has grass that has to CONSTANTLY be cared for like an infant. It's just really strange to me.

Thanks for the book suggestion too.
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#13 of 243 Old 02-04-2016, 10:32 AM
 
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History seems to repeat itself a lot. Last year I read The Fluoride Deception and felt the same sense that there were lots of similarities to what is happening in the vaccine industry. I highly recommend it. I'm sure there are also a lot of parallels in the history of the tobacco industry in the 20th century. The older I get, the more I realize how important history is.
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#14 of 243 Old 02-04-2016, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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History seems to repeat itself a lot. Last year I read The Fluoride Deception and felt the same sense that there were lots of similarities to what is happening in the vaccine industry. I highly recommend it. I'm sure there are also a lot of parallels in the history of the tobacco industry in the 20th century. The older I get, the more I realize how important history is.
I wonder if there are college courses on how industry can get away with dirty dealing, or if people have to learn these techniques on the job?
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#15 of 243 Old 02-04-2016, 09:02 PM
 
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I wonder if there are college courses on how industry can get away with dirty dealing, or if people have to learn these techniques on the job?
There at least seems to be "dirty dealing" college courses:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/03/bu...=Facebook&_r=0
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#16 of 243 Old 02-06-2016, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm almost done with the invasive species book.

Just got done with the part on the idea of "wilderness" which is a big part of the American belief system. Basically, it is based on the idea that nature left to itself was beautiful and varied and thriving and that all the problems we now have are due to human interventions--what is really needed is sheltered spaces where nature is allowed to do its own thing.

Sounds good, but it isn't actually based on reality. The Americas were heavily managed by the Native American population, but their approach to managing lands was so different from the European model that it was invisible to the incoming groups. This invisibility was made more so by the huge drop in population due to diseases brought from Europe. Much of the lovely "wild" landscape was a few generations away from a managed landscape with many of the species that the locals had carefully supported beginning to be overwhelmed by other species that they had carefully kept in check. It is an interesting picture, and quite different from the European imagination of primitive people living in ignorance and squalor in the midst of an untouched wilderness.

This is a good article about the original methods of "farming" and shows how it sustained long-term fertility of the soil. Probably kept people fairly healthy, too! http://whyfiles.org/2012/farming-native-american-style/

I think we need to reconsider how we "manage" our bodies, too. Waiting until they get sick and then drugging them doesn't work super well. Equally, trying to prevent illnesses in childhood without understanding the role of these illnesses in healthy development might be a gigantic mistake.

Grasslands were maintained in the Americas by periodic and careful burning. I wonder if the process of childhood requires the occasional fever for proper development? Suppression of fevers doesn't seem to result in super health, anyway.

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#17 of 243 Old 02-09-2016, 06:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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All done. A truly fascinating book. The author's approach is so far out of the mainstream that I don't think many people will be able to hear what she is saying, unfortunately.

I do see a lot of parallels between the "invasive species" view of the world and the "invasive diseases" view of the world. In neither case is the obvious question asked: "Why is this problem arising at this point in time?"

The usual way of seeing the problems is through the lens of helplessness. These dangerous beings, plants, viruses or bacteria are so dangerous and destructive and out of control that only super powerful technological solutions can protect us. Herbicides, pesticides, drugs and vaccines.

The reality? Invasive species are usually invading and spreading because there is a problem in the landscape or wetscape. Toxic waste, overgrazing, overplowing, monoculture with accompanying chemicals, etc.

And the viruses and bacteria? That comes from two poles. One is environmental destruction which exposes humans and animals to new bugs where we don't have immunity, the other is interior factors in the hosts that makes them vulnerable to catching, spreading and dying from a particular bug. Malnutrition, overcrowding, air pollution, exposure to toxins, etc.

The odd thing is that vaccines are generally not a "quick" solution to all this stuff. It takes time to develop and deploy a vaccine. It is probably quicker to supply food and upgrade housing in a lot of situations! And even quicker to stop spraying people with pesticides.

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#18 of 243 Old 02-09-2016, 09:55 PM
 
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There is nothing more tragic in today's world then allowing the pharmaceutical and chemical industries to exploit the horrors of climate change.

Not only are we going to take away the air you breath, and the water you drink, we're going to make a buck off of you while we do it.

No one cares if pregnant Brazilian women have an informed choice. No one cares about the real reasons their daughters have shrunken brains.
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#19 of 243 Old 02-15-2016, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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To return to the point made at the beginning of this thread, the book linked in the OP explains how manufacturers of pesticides and herbicides have manipulated the regulations and guidelines so that they sell more product. This is justified by demonizing various plants and a few animals as "invasive" and therefore needing to be eradicated, no matter the environmental damage resulting from the chemical barrage.

The parallels with the vaccination guidelines and the demonization of diseases are obvious.
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#20 of 243 Old 03-05-2016, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I wanted to add another book to this thread:

Concussion by Jeanne Marie Laskas

Here is an interview with Dr. Omalu http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...-bennet-omalu/

After he published his first paper on brain damage following a football career:
Quote:
He said, "The NFL doctors have sent a letter accusing you of fraud, that your paper should be retracted."...
It sounds as though the movie makes the whole story a lot crazier than the real life version.

Anyway, the NFL did a very good job of delaying and fighting back against any connection between playing football and brain injury. They weren't able to shut things down altogether, but by manipulating the science and attacking their critics very vigorously, they prevented football players from even knowing why they were going crazy, much less getting compensated for their injuries for quite a long time. The NFL doesn't have nearly has much money as the pharmaceutical companies.

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#21 of 243 Old 03-06-2016, 09:12 AM
 
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Wanted to share this here:

http://chronicle.com/article/The-Wat...fessor/235136/

I think the whole article is really good hard for me to highlight just one thing.
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#22 of 243 Old 03-06-2016, 09:15 AM
 
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To return to the point made at the beginning of this thread, the book linked in the OP explains how manufacturers of pesticides and herbicides have manipulated the regulations and guidelines so that they sell more product. This is justified by demonizing various plants and a few animals as "invasive" and therefore needing to be eradicated, no matter the environmental damage resulting from the chemical barrage.

The parallels with the vaccination guidelines and the demonization of diseases are obvious.
To say nothing of what Exxon Mobile is going through right now regarding fossil fuel emissions and climate science. Multiple stories abound regarding this topic but would be happy to link something if anyone requires.
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#23 of 243 Old 03-06-2016, 12:15 PM
 
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This thread also makes me recount my history with kudzu. When my oldest was born we moved moved to Knoxville for three years and the sentiment down there seemed to be "anti-kudzu". It's everywhere and hard to eliminate.

I loved it, thought it was pretty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kudzu_..._United_States
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#24 of 243 Old 03-06-2016, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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But when you reach out to them, as I did with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and they do not return your phone calls, they do not share data, they do not respond to FOIA [open-records requests], y’know. … In each case I just started asking questions and turning over rocks, and I resolved to myself, The second something slimy doesn’t come out, I’m gonna go home. But every single rock you turn over, something slimy comes out.
Link in Post #21 from Anne Jiveden.

but the CDC will only behave like this when it comes to lead in the water of Flint, Michigan. On every other topic they are honest and open and trustworthy. And if you believe that...
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#25 of 243 Old 03-06-2016, 05:13 PM
 
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I have to say i had never heard of marc edwards before and i don't have any idea what his vaccine position is. Just that there seems to be a question of what is now considered "science".

Thx @Deborah ! You are brilliant and you are very kind!
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#26 of 243 Old 03-06-2016, 05:15 PM
 
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Link in Post #21 from Anne Jiveden.

but the CDC will only behave like this when it comes to lead in the water of Flint, Michigan. On every other topic they are honest and open and trustworthy. And if you believe that...
i have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell ya....
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#27 of 243 Old 03-06-2016, 05:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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i have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell ya....
I want the one originally in London and now in Arizona. http://www.arizona-leisure.com/london-bridge.html
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#28 of 243 Old 03-06-2016, 05:49 PM
 
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I want the one originally in London and now in Arizona. http://www.arizona-leisure.com/london-bridge.html
WoW! Beautiful!!! Yep, that's the one i would want too!

thank You!
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Last edited by Anne Jividen; 03-11-2016 at 07:01 PM.
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#29 of 243 Old 03-11-2016, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Another example of disaster and denial. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/a-toxic-cover-up/

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"It appeared to me they thought we were getting too close to issuing serious violations to the mining company," says Spadaro. The new head of MSHA, a Bush appointee named Dave Lauriski, was a former mining industry mining executive, and so were his top deputies.

Spadaro says Lauriski came into his office one day, and insisted he sign a watered down version of the report -- a version that virtually let the coal company and MSHA off the hook.
the company knew that they had a huge potential disaster on their hands. They didn't do anything to prevent the disaster. After it happened, the administration took action to stop the investigation and let the coal company off the hook. This mess will be poisoning people for many years. But they are poor and unimportant people...
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#30 of 243 Old 03-11-2016, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The story of how DuPont polluted the entire country. http://www.salon.com/2016/01/04/tefl...egacy_partner/

Quote:
The trouble was that the compound – which has since been linked to a variety of health risks including cancer, liver disease, developmental problems, and thyroid disease – escapes into the air easily. In fact, C8 was often shipped to factories pre-mixed with water to keep the dust from worker’s lungs.
Because it’s an extremely stable chemical, C8 does not biodegrade. Instead, it bioaccumulates, building up in people’s blood over time if they continue to drink water or breathe air laced with the substance. Due to its ubiquitous use, the chemical can now be found in trace amounts in the bloodstream of more than 98 percent of Americans, and even in umbilical cord blood and breast milk, according to the Centers for Disease Control. It’s also been found in the blood of seals, eagles, and dolphins around the world, including in animals living in a remote wildlife refuge in the middle of the North Pacific. The chemical is expected to stay in the environment for thousands of years.
Quote:
“Concerns about the potential toxicity of C8 had been raised internally within DuPont by at least 1954, leading DuPont’s own researchers to conclude by at least 1961 that C8 was toxic and, according to DuPont’s own Toxicology Section Chief, should be ‘handled with extreme care,’” Bartlett’s February 2013 suit against DuPont alleged.
But it wasn’t until the 1970s that DuPont’s researchers began to understand that C8 was building up in the bloodstreams of workers, and soon after, they began to see troubling signs that the chemical could pose serious health risks. The stakes were high: The Washington Works plant where Teflon is manufactured was one of the biggest employers in the region. The plant currently employs more than 2,000 people – 3,000 if you include sub-contractors – in a sparsely populated Appalachian community alongside the Ohio River separating West Virginia from Ohio.
In 1981, the company ordered all female employees out of the Teflon division after two out of seven pregnant workers gave birth to children with birth defects. One of those children, Bucky Bailey, was born with just one nostril and other facial deformities that required many painful surgeries to fix.
So, hey, it was very profitable...
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