Tdap and the Zika virus - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by EMRguy View Post

Is there an english translation somewhere? I'm still not seeing it.

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#32 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 11:03 AM
 
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Portuguese is the official language, i am afraid if i link a blog with translation, you may have a problem.

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#33 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMRguy View Post
Portuguese is the official language, i am afraid if i link a blog with translation, you may have a problem.

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Can you take a screen shot and post a quote of the part that says it recommends three doses of the Tdap during pregnancy?

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#34 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 11:22 AM
 
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Bottom right corner " pregos without documented tdap or td vax can get 2 shots, if only 1 shot of td then pregs can get the 2 shots of tdap and td (prefer tdap)
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#35 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 11:25 AM
 
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Previamente vacinadas, com
pelo menos três doses de vacina
contendo o toxoide tetânico, tendo
recebido a última dose há mais de
cinco anos.
Uma dose de dT
ou dTpa.
Fazer dTpa no puerpério,
se não vacinada durante a
gestação.
Em gestantes que receberam
vacinação incompleta contra
tétano, tendo recebido apenas
uma dose na vida.
Aplicar uma dose
de dT e uma dose
de dTpa ou dT
com intervalo de
dois meses.
Fazer dTpa no puerpério,
se não vacinada durante a
gestação.
Em gestantes que receberam
vacinação incompleta contra
tétano, tendo recebido apenas
duas doses na vida.
Uma dose de dT
ou dTpa.
Fazer dTpa no puerpério,
se não vacinada durante a
gestação.

TRANSLATES TO:
Previously vaccinated with
at least three doses of vaccine
containing tetanus toxoid , and
receiving the last dose over
five years.
A dose of dT
or Tdap .
Do Tdap postpartum ,
if not vaccinated at
gestation.
In pregnant women who received
incomplete vaccination
tetanus, receiving only
a dose in life.
Apply a dose
Td and a dose
of Tdap or Td
range with
two months.
Do Tdap postpartum ,
if not vaccinated at
gestation.
In pregnant women who received
incomplete vaccination
tetanus, receiving only
two doses in life.
A dose of dT
or Tdap .
Do Tdap postpartum ,
if not vaccinated at
gestation.

So, yes, pregnant women did receive threes doses in many cases.

(per ERMguy's link)
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#36 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 11:26 AM
 
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which then begs the question, how many were vaccinated and had no idea yet they were pregnant?
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#37 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 11:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emmy526 View Post
which then begs the question, how many were vaccinated and had no idea yet they were pregnant?
Funny you mention this... around the last months of 2014, they had a huge campaign against Sarampo (measles) and the outbreak was in Pernanbuco. During that campaign, they SUS (gov heath officials) were doing home visits to make sure everyone got the MMR vaccine.
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#38 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Alright. I asked a Brazilian pal who speaks Portuguese to look at the link. His response re there being a recommendation of 3 doses during pregnancy from that link:


Quote:
No they don't. Postpartum by definition is not during pregnancy, and that's only if they weren't vaccinated during pregnancy. No, no and no. At most two doses are recommended for pregnant women who haven't been immunized. The information about vaccines during pregnancy and postpartum are even in separate columns. If they got three doses of DTAP previously and a booster five years ago or less, the recommendation is nothing or one dose. At most they would receive one DTaP, the other dose (or both) would be just DT.

Let me walk you through the pertinent information step by step. In the first page of that folder, there is a smaller table to the left, which I reproduce below, numbering the cells in red so that we can go over them one by one.



The column headings say: "Vaccine history", "Conduct during pregnancy" and "conduct after pregnancy". For starters, we can see beforehand that any relevant info about vaccines *during* pregnancy will be only in the middle column.
Now, translation cell by cell:
1. Previously vaccinated, with at least three doses of vaccine containing the tetanus toxoid, having received last dose less than five years ago.
2. Nothing or DTaP.
3. Administer DTap after delivery, if not vaccinated during pregnancy.
4. Previously vaccinated, with at least three doses of vaccine containing the tetanus toxoid, having received last dose more than five years ago.
5. One dose DT ot DTaP.
6. Administer DTap after delivery, if not vaccinated during pregnancy.
7. For pregnant women who received incomplete vaccination against tetanus, having had only one dose in all their lives.
8. Administer one dose of DT and one dose of DTaP or DT with a two-month interval.
9. Administer DTap after delivery, if not vaccinated during pregnancy.
10. For pregnant women who received incomplete vaccination against tetanus, having had only two doses in all their lives.
11. One dose of DTaP or DT.
12. Administer DTap after delivery, if not vaccinated during pregnancy.
13. For pregnant women with unknown vaccine history.
14. Administer one dose of DT and one dose of DTaP or DT with a two-month interval.
15. Administer DTap after delivery, if not vaccinated during pregnancy or DT six months after the last dose received during pregnancy.
Well, he's nothing if not thorough

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Last edited by teacozy; 02-05-2016 at 12:35 PM.
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#39 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Let's see if this screen shot of the graph comes out a bit bigger. If not, it's to the right on the first page from the link @EMRguy posted.

Click image for larger version

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#40 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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In any case, this is moot as I have already explained that there is no biological plausibility for a vaccine administered well after the brain is fully developed to cause brain malformation.
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#41 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 12:42 PM
 
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you should have your Brazilian friend log in here.

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#42 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 12:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMRguy View Post
you should have your Brazilian friend log in here.

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The link is not working for me? Don't know if it's me or a problem with the post?
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#43 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 12:59 PM
 
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some of these links have been disappearing. the one from INV butantan its gone too.

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#44 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 01:07 PM
 
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Anyhoo, still hoping for a response from anyone (but pulled @ kathymuggle's quote #11 ) regarding the recent development of the latest (first and only) deaths related to Zika virus listing Guillan Barre as the cause of death.

My linking ability is messing up as well but I am trying to link today's Democracy Nows' headlines:
http://www.democracynow.org/2016/2/5...lated_syndrome
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#45 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by EMRguy View Post
you should have your Brazilian friend log in here.

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He isn't interested.

So are you going to correct your statement that Brazil recommends 3 doses of Tdap during pregnancy?

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#46 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 01:30 PM
 
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i didn't use Google, i am native Brazilian.

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#47 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by EMRguy View Post
i didn't use Google, i am native Brazilian.

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I didn't say you used google?...

I asked if you were going to take back your statement that Brazil recommends three doses of the Tdap vaccine during pregnancy. If not, I'd appreciate you demonstrating exactly which part is incorrect on the graph I posted from your link that my Brazilian acquaintance translated?

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Last edited by teacozy; 02-05-2016 at 01:44 PM.
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#48 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 01:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by EMRguy View Post
some of these links have been disappearing. the one from INV butantan its gone too.

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i noticed that too
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#49 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 01:57 PM
 
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here's why it looks like three, but it's two, and then ANOTHER one postpartum, IF not done AT gestation, making the total, 3.....per the translation link
In pregnant women who received
incomplete vaccination
tetanus, receiving only
a dose in life.
Apply a dose
Td
and a dose
of Tdap or Td
range with
two months.

Do Tdap postpartum ,
if not vaccinated at
gestation.


so, yes, looks like it's possible to get THREE tdap's while preggo..
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#50 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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here's why it looks like three, but it's two, and then ANOTHER one postpartum, IF not done AT gestation, making the total, 3.....per the translation link
In pregnant women who received
incomplete vaccination
tetanus, receiving only
a dose in life.
Apply a dose
Td
and a dose
of Tdap or Td
range with
two months.

Do Tdap postpartum ,
if not vaccinated at
gestation.


so, yes, looks like it's possible to get THREE tdap's while preggo..
Omg, no. POSTpartum means AFTER pregnancy. And even then, that is ONLY if you didn't receive a vaccine while pregnant.

The most Tdaps you can receive during pregnancy is one. If you are not up to date or are unvaccinated, you can receive one DT (not the same thing as Tdap) and then a second dose of either Tdap or another DT. There is no scenario where a pregnant woman is getting three doses of Tdap during pregnancy per @EMRguy 's link.

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#51 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 02:00 PM
 
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So we're all agreed, recommending three doses of the Tdap vaccine during pregnancy would be totally insane!!!!!

My opinion is that recommending any doses of Tdap during pregnancy is insane.

FOR THE THIRD TIME!!!

The cause of death for the FIRST AND ONLY TWO victims of Zika virus WAS GUILLIAN BARRE!!!!!!!!

What say you brilliant folks? Am i totally down the rabbit hole?
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#52 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 02:09 PM
 
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Omg, no. POSTpartum means AFTER pregnancy. And even then, that is ONLY if you didn't receive a vaccine while pregnant.

The most Tdaps you can receive during pregnancy is one. If you have are not up to date or are unvaccinated, you can receive one DT (not the same thing as Tdap) and then a second dose of either Tdap or another DT.
In pregnant women who received
incomplete vaccination
tetanus, receiving only
a dose in life.
Apply a dose <------FIRST DOSE
Td and a dose
of Tdap or Td <--------SECOND DOSE WHILE PREGNANT
range with
two months.

That looks like two while pregnant to me...and, how do we know these women did not receive ANY dtap during the first 4weeks of pregnancy, before they knew they were pregnant?...and then got two more due to insufficient record keeping.

After all, with the faulty memory thing, they probably don't remember getting any vaccines. So they gave the go ahead for more.
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#53 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emmy526 View Post
In pregnant women who received
incomplete vaccination
tetanus, receiving only
a dose in life.
Apply a dose <------FIRST DOSE
Td and a dose
of Tdap or Td <--------SECOND DOSE WHILE PREGNANT
range with
two months.

That looks like two while pregnant to me...and, how do we know these women did not receive ANY dtap during the first 4weeks of pregnancy, before they knew they were pregnant?...and then got two more due to insufficient record keeping.

After all, with the faulty memory thing, they probably don't remember getting any vaccines. So they gave the go ahead for more.
Sigh. The quote says:

"In pregnant women who received incomplete vaccination tetanus, receiving only a dose in life. Apply a dose Td and a dose of Tdap or Td range with two months. Do Tdap postpartum , if not vaccinated at gestation."

Again, Td is not the same thing as Tdap. It says to give a woman Td and then as a second dose either a second Td OR Tdap. Again, the most Tdap's a woman can receive during pregnancy is 1 according to this link that EMRguy posted and described as being "as official as it gets".

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#54 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 02:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Anne Jividen View Post
So we're all agreed, recommending three doses of the Tdap vaccine during pregnancy would be totally insane!!!!!

My opinion is that recommending any doses of Tdap during pregnancy is insane.

FOR THE THIRD TIME!!!

The cause of death for the FIRST AND ONLY TWO victims of Zika virus WAS GUILLIAN BARRE!!!!!!!!

What say you brilliant folks? Am i totally down the rabbit hole?
I don't know about a rabbit hole but I am confused as to what your question is that you are multiple explanation point capital lettering about it being the third time here?

No one is saying that zika virus is a massive killer. It actually appears quite the opposite, it isn't a serious disease, unless you are pregnant because pregnant women who contract zika have an increased risk of having a baby with microcephaly.

I am not surprised that the cause of death of the only two fatal victims of zika was guillian barre. Guillan barre frequently follows an infection. If the flu, or staph infection or other infections can trigger guillan barre it is not all that surprising that ZIKA can as well. But this is getting pretty off topic.

I also think TDAP during pregnancy is irrelevant to the fact that Zika infection is causing microcephaly as a birth defect in warm climates as a mosquito born illness.
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#55 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 02:56 PM
 
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I don't know about a rabbit hole but I am confused as to what your question is that you are multiple explanation point capital lettering about it being the third time here?

No one is saying that zika virus is a massive killer. It actually appears quite the opposite, it isn't a serious disease, unless you are pregnant because pregnant women who contract zika have an increased risk of having a baby with microcephaly.

I am not surprised that the cause of death of the only two fatal victims of zika was guillian barre. Guillan barre frequently follows an infection. If the flu, or staph infection or other infections can trigger guillan barre it is not all that surprising that ZIKA can as well. But this is getting pretty off topic.

I also think TDAP during pregnancy is irrelevant to the fact that Zika infection is causing microcephaly as a birth defect in warm climates as a mosquito born illness.
I can see.
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#56 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 02:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Dakotacakes View Post
I don't know about a rabbit hole but I am confused as to what your question is that you are multiple explanation point capital lettering about it being the third time here?

No one is saying that zika virus is a massive killer. It actually appears quite the opposite, it isn't a serious disease, unless you are pregnant because pregnant women who contract zika have an increased risk of having a baby with microcephaly.

I am not surprised that the cause of death of the only two fatal victims of zika was guillian barre. Guillan barre frequently follows an infection. If the flu, or staph infection or other infections can trigger guillan barre it is not all that surprising that ZIKA can as well. But this is getting pretty off topic.

I also think TDAP during pregnancy is irrelevant to the fact that Zika infection is causing microcephaly as a birth defect in warm climates as a mosquito born illness.
and perhaps maybe not, as tetanus vaccines can also lead to GB.
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#57 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 02:59 PM
 
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as the cause of death for the babies that died of zika virus was GB
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#58 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 03:05 PM
 
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as the cause of death for the babies that died of zika virus was GB
Where exactly has it been reported that any infants have died as a result of being infected with Zika.
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#59 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 03:16 PM
 
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you can go to the INV forum and read the quote translated 3 shots issue, unfortunately that link is now dead.

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#60 of 166 Old 02-05-2016, 03:32 PM
 
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and perhaps maybe not, as tetanus vaccines can also lead to GB.
Microcephaly is a congenital birth defect that originates in the first trimester. It can be identified by ultrasound in the second trimester. It can lead to stillbirths and infant deaths, as well as physical and developmental disabilities. It has absolutely nothing to do with Guillian-Barre or with vaccines given in the third trimester. By the time the vaccine(s) are administered, the damage is already done.
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