New study: SSPE more common than previously thought. - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 130 Old 10-28-2016, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
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New study: SSPE more common than previously thought.

This is really scary, although it's something I (and some experts) have long suspected might be true. SSPE is not a reportable disease and can crop up over decades after an infection, so diagnosis can be tricky and the true incidence is likely higher.

For the lurkers, SSPE is a late complication from measles infection. A person can seem fine for 5 years or even a decade or longer and then suddenly develop symptoms. It is not survivable.

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health...-later-n674706

Quote:
A deadly measles complication that kills kids years after they seemingly recover may not be as rare as doctors thought, researchers said Friday.

The fatal and incurable complication has killed at least 16 California adults and children, the researchers in Los Angeles and San Francisco said.

They say they're afraid the condition is far more common than anyone thought, and say it strongly reinforces the need for vaccinating every single child who can be.

"This is really frightening," said Dr. James Cherry of the University of California, Los Angeles medical school.

Once thought very rare, a recent study in Germany and now the California study suggests SSPE is far more common than previously believed. Original estimates suggested it affected 1 in 100,000 kids, but in the California cases 1 in 600 people who got measles as infants developed SSPE, the researchers said.

They said 1 in 1,400 kids under 5 who got measles developed SSPE.

The team started to look at possible SSPE cases after the German cases were reported. They found 16 people in California alone killed by SSPE - all diagnosed by autopsy after they died. A 17th case is in hospice care now, they told a meeting of infectious disease specialists in New Orleans.
They go on to say that every single person that died had a history of natural measles infection without being vaccinated and that many more cases around the country may have gone unreported.

For parents they say:

Quote:
"Parents of infants who have not yet been vaccinated should avoid putting their children at risk," Cherry said. "For example, they should postpone trips overseas - including to Europe - where measles is endemic and epidemic until after their baby has been vaccinated with two doses. It's just not worth the risk."
For broad discussion, what do you think about this study?

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#2 of 130 Old 10-28-2016, 05:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Here is more information about the study itself:

http://www.aappublications.org/news/.../Measles102816

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#3 of 130 Old 10-28-2016, 05:38 PM
 
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For those lurkers and fellow MDCers, SSPE is also a well-known side effect of the measles component of the MMR vaccine. So if you want to get SSPE, you can get the wild disease OR get the vaccine. Your choice, unless you are in MS, VW, or CA, then you HAVE to get the vaccine.

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVac.../ucm094050.htm
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Biologi.../ucm123789.pdf

Quote:
Nervous System
Encephalitis; encephalopathy; measles inclusion body encephalitis (MIBE) (see CONTRAINDICATIONS);
* ->subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE); <- *
Guillain
-Barré Syndrome (GBS);
acute disseminated encephalomyelitis
(ADEM);
transverse myelitis; febrile convulsions; afebrile
convulsions or seizures; ataxia; polyneuritis; polyneuropathy; ocular palsies; paresthesia.
Encephalitis and
encephalopathy have been reported approximately once for every 3 million doses of
M-M-
R II or measles
-, mumps
-, and rubella-
containing vaccine administered since licensure of these
vaccines
.
The risk of serious neurological disorders following live measles virus
vaccine administration remains
less than the risk of encephalitis and encephalopathy following infection wit
h wild
-type measles (
1 per
1000 reported cases).
{58,59}
In severely immunocompromised individuals who have been inadvertently vaccinated with measl
es-
containing vaccine;
measles inclusion body encephalitis, pneumonitis, and fatal outcome as a direct consequence of disseminated measles vaccine virus infection have been reported (see CONTRAINDICATIONS)

Of course, if a child is so unlucky as to get measles from the MMR vaccine, the doctor will always tell the parent that,"the case is milder if the child has received the vaccine," a statement with NO study or science to back it up, yet doctors say it all of the time. So good luck if you get the vaccine, get measles, and THEN get SSPE. Federal Vaccine Court is such a wonderful experience.

Dr Robert Mendelsohn, MD, et al did say in his How To Raise A Healthy Child, ... book that he and many of his contemporaries in the late 70s and early 80s questioned the 1/1000 statistic that was repeated many times as a number for measles encephalitis.

Vitamin A, you know, retinoids, cod liver oil, are known to be able to prevent measles complications.
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#4 of 130 Old 10-28-2016, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
For those lurkers and fellow MDCers, SSPE is also a well-known side effect of the measles component of the MMR vaccine.

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVac.../ucm094050.htm
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Biologi.../ucm123789.pdf



Dr Robert Mendelsohn, MD, et al did say in his How To Raise A Healthy Child, ... book that he and many of his contemporaries in the late 70s and early 80s questioned the 1/1000 statistic that was repeated many times as a number for measles encephalitis.

Vitamin A, you know, retinoids, cod liver oil, are known to be able to prevent measles complications.
No. MMR does not cause SSPE. Package inserts should not be confused with causality. They've listed accidental drownings, car accidents, etc. They report anything that happens to occur after a vaccination without determination as to whether the vaccine caused it or not.

From the WHO (World Health Organization):

Quote:
Available epidemiological data, in line with virus genotyping data, do not suggest that measles vaccine virus can cause SSPE. Furthermore, epidemiological data do not suggest that the administration of measles vaccine can accelerate the course of SSPE or trigger SSPE in an individual who would have developed the disease at a later time without immunization. Neither can the vaccine lead to the development of SSPE where it would not otherwise have occurred in a person who has already a benign persistent wild measles infection at the time of vaccination.
http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/co...e/Jan_2006/en/

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#5 of 130 Old 10-28-2016, 05:52 PM
 
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That is ten, nearly eleven years old. Got anything more recent?

My Merck package insert is one year old this month.

Since few parents are told about VAERS or Federal Vaccine Court and are too busy caring for a brain damaged child after MMR induced SSPE to learn their rights.

By the way, the word is NOT caused, it is ASSOCIATED with. Correlation does not equal Causation, but ASSOCIATION sure does.
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#6 of 130 Old 10-28-2016, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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In fact, your link actually says right before the list you copied (interesting you didn't add this part):

Quote:
The following adverse reactions are listed in decreasing order of severity, without regard to causality,
within each body system category and have been reported during clinical trials, with use of the marketed
vaccine, or with use of monovalent or bivalent vaccine containing measles, mumps, or rubella:
Without regard to causality. Repeating for emphasis.

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Biologi.../ucm123789.pdf

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#7 of 130 Old 10-28-2016, 06:05 PM
 
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Well, seeing as MMR is a live vaccine, it makes sense it *could* cause SSPE.

If they are not counting cases of SSPE properly (ergo "under-diangosed") then it makes sense they cannot definitively say if SSPE is found in the vaccinated.

In any event, I don't think SSPE is particularly common, and it is definitely much more common in kids who get measles under a year or 2.

While measles is quite rare (and yes, due to vaccines) the lack of maternal antibodies has left infants highly susceptible to measles if it is circulating - and thus SSPE.
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#8 of 130 Old 10-28-2016, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
Well, seeing as MMR is a live vaccine, it makes sense it *could* cause SSPE.

If they are not counting cases of SSPE properly (ergo "under-diangosed") then it makes sense they cannot definitively say if SSPE is found in the vaccinated.

In any event, I don't think SSPE is particularly common, and it is definitely much more common in kids who get measles under a year or 2.

While measles is quite rare (and yes, due to vaccines) the lack of maternal antibodies has left infants highly susceptible to measles if it is circulating - and thus SSPE.
It could in theory (which is why they've studied it), but hasn't. Just like the vaccine measles virus could theoretically shed, but doesn't. Given how many decades the measles vaccine has been out and how many billions of doses administered all over the world, if it causes SSPE at any meaningful rate we would have found something by now. As the WHO link points out, genotyping data have never found a case of SSPE caused by the vaccines measles virus. It has essentially eliminated SSPE in the population (except for in people who developed wild measles). Even the FDA link applejuice provided said reported cases (not causally established) put the rate of association at 1 case of SSPE per million doses.
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#9 of 130 Old 10-28-2016, 06:26 PM
 
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My nephew got measles his first day of school from all of the recently vaccinated children there. He passed it to his sister, who passed it to my son. They are adults today, but they got measles from live vaccine shedding. Where else did they get this disease?

If I had little children today, that "reported" and "admitted" one in a million serious vaccine reaction would not comfort me.

If a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound if no one is there to hear it?

If a child gets a serious vaccine reaction, does it matter if it is diagnosed, reported or counted?

Who cares. It is one in a million. Move on.
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#10 of 130 Old 10-28-2016, 06:30 PM
 
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So you have just an eleven year old WHO report?

Quote:
In fact, your link actually says right before the list you copied (interesting you didn't add this part):

Quote:
The following adverse reactions are listed in decreasing order of severity, without regard to causality,
within each body system category and have been reported during clinical trials, with use of the marketed
vaccine, or with use of monovalent or bivalent vaccine containing measles, mumps, or rubella:

Without regard to causality. Repeating for emphasis.

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Biologi.../ucm123789.pdf
"Without regard to causality" - no vaccine manufacturer will ever admit to any causality. Please. The job of the parents is to prove casuality in Federal Vaccine Court.

Again, the correct scientific word is "associated with", not "cause".
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#11 of 130 Old 10-28-2016, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Actually Applejuice, you're the one who said the vaccine measles virus caused SSPE so the burden is on *you* to prove that it does. A vaccine insert that says right before the listed adverse events that these are without regard to causality does not cut it.

But for a more recent link, this one is from 2013 and says:

Quote:
SSPE is caused by the intracerebral spread of measles virus leading to a destruction of neurons. In all cases where brain tissue has been examined by molecular methods, wild type measles virus strains have been identified, never vaccine strains [1], [4].
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3706451/

Again, the overall incidence of SSPE has plummeted since the introduction of the vaccine and genotyping data has never found a case of vaccine measles virus causing SSPE.

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#12 of 130 Old 10-28-2016, 07:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
Again, the overall incidence of SSPE has plummeted since the introduction of the vaccine and genotyping data has never found a case of vaccine measles virus causing SSPE.
Confused. You just said that a study discovered that SSPE is more common than was previously thought and now you are saying that the incidence has plummeted.
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#13 of 130 Old 10-28-2016, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Confused. You just said that a study discovered that SSPE is more common than was previously thought and now you are saying that the incidence has plummeted.
Right. Basically, the rate at which it occurs is more common than previously thought, but we have significantly fewer measles cases a year (usually between 50-100ish) vs 4 million a year pre-vaccine so the overall number of SSPE cases has plummeted because of the vaccine.

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#14 of 130 Old 10-28-2016, 07:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
Right. Basically, the rate at which it occurs is more common than previously thought, but we have significantly fewer measles cases a year (usually between 50-100ish) vs 4 million a year pre-vaccine so the overall number of SSPE cases has plummeted because of the vaccine.
I see some problems with that.

It sounds to me as though there are no solid numbers on the rate of SSPE prior to the vaccination program, so whether the rate has actually gone up from the pre-vaccine period is truly not known.

All we might know is that there is more SSPE now than was counted a few years ago. Was it being missed? Or is some other factor in play?
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#15 of 130 Old 10-28-2016, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
No.

I do not have a vaccine injured child, so I do not have to prove anything to you or anyone else.

However, nice how you cut your quote so short...

You quote -



You left out what followed -


So if no one knows the exact pathogenesis, how can anyone know whether the vaccine leads to it or not? Apparently there is a lot we do not know about SSPE despite 50 years of this vaccine. The fact is, scientists know very little about the cause, course, and resolution of infectious disease.

I could rudely draw emphasis to the fact that you left off the rest of the quote, but that would be rude, wouldn't it?
That is not saying that they don't know whether the measles virus is the cause of SSPE or not. It irrefutably is. They don't know yet for certain whether certain strains are more likely to lead to SSPE or not, or how the exact mechanism of how it specifically develops, etc. That is not the same thing as saying they don't know that wild measles causes SSPE.

The quote has nothing to do with what I was pointing out which is that ONLY wild measles strains have ever been found in SSPE cases - *never* vaccine strains which is what I said above that you were asking evidence for. Apparently, the same statement from the WHO wasn't convincing enough. So again, there is zero evidence that the vaccine causes SSPE. No epidemiological evidence or genotype evidence supports that theory.

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#16 of 130 Old 10-28-2016, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I see some problems with that.

It sounds to me as though there are no solid numbers on the rate of SSPE prior to the vaccination program, so whether the rate has actually gone up from the pre-vaccine period is truly not known.

All we might know is that there is more SSPE now than was counted a few years ago. Was it being missed? Or is some other factor in play?

See for example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...770/#fmu050-B1

Quote:
Measles is a disease preventable by vaccination; it primarily affects children in developing countries. SSPE is now a rare entity in the developed part of the world owing to successful routine measles immunization. In countries where effective measles control has been achieved through vaccination, a decline in new cases of SSPE is reported several years after the decline in measles; however, when epidemics occur after the good control, SSPE is reported after a delay of several years. Thus, vaccination against measles, intensive surveillance and establishment of SSPE registers have clearly reduced the incidence of SSPE through protection against measles with a reduction of 82–96% in countries where the direct comparisons between the two can be done [1]. However, for countries that are still observing high numbers of SSPE cases, low vaccine coverage, continued measles outbreaks and cold chain problems have been identified as the underlying reasons [1].
And:

Quote:
BACKGROUND:
When measles vaccines were widely introduced in the 1970s, there were concerns that they might cause subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE): a very rare, late-onset, neurological complication of natural measles infection. Therefore, SSPE registries and routine measles immunization were established in many countries concurrently. We conducted a comprehensive review of the impact of measles immunization on the epidemiology of SSPE and examined epidemiological evidence on whether there was any vaccine-associated risk.

RESULTS:
Epidemiological data showed that successful measles immunization programmes protect against SSPE and, consistent with virological data, that measles vaccine virus does not cause SSPE. Measles vaccine does not: accelerate the course of SSPE; trigger SSPE or cause SSPE in those with an established benign persistent wild measles infection.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18037676
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#17 of 130 Old 10-28-2016, 07:59 PM
 
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You and the first quote say "never", then the rest of the quote states that "the exact pathogenesis of SSPE is still unclear. " That is a contradiction. If they do not know, they do not know and should not rule anything out, including their own brew of measles vaccine as the cause or the association.

The fact of the matter is if a patient gets measles after getting the vaccine, no doctor will diagnose the fever/rash/Koplik'sSpots/photophobia as measles; I have seen it with my own eyes and heard it with my own ears; "Your child has a virus - the rash and fever are from the virus."

Of course, there is no WHO or PubMed study to prove that and why would they bother? Young doctors simply do not know how to diagnose measles, and will not look for it if a person is immunized. SOP.

But move on, nothing to see here. You have convinced yourself of the absolute safety of the measles component of the MMR. Good for you.

The measles vaccine used in Canada in 1987 caused meningitis - it was called Trivirix sold by Smith/Klein/Beecham. The vaccine was turned around and sold in the UK under another name - Pluserix - the olde name game; it was pulled from the market four years later, 1992 because it still caused meningitis. The vaccine should have been destroyed, but it was sold in developing countries as Brazil, instead. Since I lived through that era, I remember it well. The new and improved MMR is more reactive than that vaccine and causes more side effects being three or four live viruses delivered in one dose, but if no one writes down the reactions, they never happen.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1759507
http://www.vaccinationnews.org/Daily...abeVaccine.htm

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#18 of 130 Old 10-28-2016, 09:12 PM
 
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You and the first quote say "never", then the rest of the quote states that "the exact pathogenesis of SSPE is still unclear. " That is a contradiction. If they do not know, they do not know and should not rule anything out, including their own brew of measles vaccine as the cause or the association.

The fact of the matter is if a patient gets measles after getting the vaccine, no doctor will diagnose the fever/rash/Koplik'sSpots/photophobia as measles; I have seen it with my own eyes and heard it with my own ears; "Your child has a virus - the rash and fever are from the virus."

Of course, there is no WHO or PubMed study to prove that and why would they bother? Young doctors simply do not know how to diagnose measles, and will not look for it if a person is immunized. SOP.

But move on, nothing to see here. You have convinced yourself of the absolute safety of the measles component of the MMR. Good for you.

The measles vaccine used in the US in the late 1980s caused meningitis; the vaccine was turned around and sold overseas under another name - the olde name game. Since I lived through that era, I remember it, well. The new and improved MMR is more reactive than that vaccine and causes more side effects being three or four live viruses delivered in one dose, but if no one writes down the reactions, they never happen.
"Cold chain problems"

Meaning, well, in our hurry to get this stuff out, we cut a few corners on basic safety issues, but still, we are AWESOME.
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#19 of 130 Old 10-29-2016, 04:56 AM
 
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New study: SSPE more common than previously thought.

Just doing some math here. So, there were about 3,632,000 children born in 1950 in the US. So, since about every child got measles, in any given year, about the many or so children had measles. If 1 in 600 acquire and die from SSPE than about 6,050 children were dying every year from this.

For comparison, 3000 children were dying every year from polio in the early 1950s and people were very aware of this. You're saying twice that number were dying from SSPE and hardly anyone noticed?

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#20 of 130 Old 10-29-2016, 05:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Xerxella View Post
Just doing some math here. So, there were about 3,632,000 children born in 1950 in the US. So, since about every child got measles, in any given year, about the many or so children had measles. If 1 in 600 acquire and die from SSPE than about 6,050 children were dying every year from this.

The historical data doesn't seem to support this.
Just to clarify, the risk is 1/600 for infants.....but I agree the data does not support it, even after adjusting for figures.
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#21 of 130 Old 10-29-2016, 06:02 AM
 
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SSPE is weird. Until fairly recently, no one new it existed. I am not saying it did not exist - just that its number were so low it did not warrant studying.

Numbers for it's occurrence are all over the board. The CDC, per above link, has it at 5-10 per million cases.

Some of the stories surrounding SSPe just make no sense.

Take this bizarres story: 3 too young to be vaccinated children went to the same medical clinic on the same day as person with measles came in, and subsequently developed SSPE, and died. http://justthevax.blogspot.ca/2009/0...-children.html

The math on 3 people getting measles and thus developing SSPE from the same visit to a medical centre is mind bogglingly low. I am not saying it did not happen - I am saying maybe there are other features (strain of measles, underlying susceptibility in that German town for one reason or anther?) worth exploring in who gets SSPE.
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#22 of 130 Old 10-29-2016, 06:34 AM
 
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SSPE is incredibly rare, on a population scale. It occurs very rarely among those who get measles before age two, and not at all or close to at all among those who develop measles after age two.

No one gets a measles shot until aged 12-18 months. A vaxxing family gets to worry about SSPE for one year, a non vax for two. And SSPE is very rare.

In the pre-vaccine era, maternal antibodies did a good but imperfect job of keeping very young babies from getting measles, in our current era, low measles rate does a good job of keeping everyone from getting measles. I don't think it is as good a purported, but that is neither here nor there.

It is the parents job, as much as possible, to keep very young children healthy and safe. Communicable diseases are everywhere - and your child is much more likely to die of one of them (most of which do not have vaccines, or have vaccine with poor efficacy, such as flu and pertussis). Stay away from very crowded public places. Schedule well-child visits first thing in the morning. Don't allow the kids to gnaw on the germy toys. Hang out with baby in a sling 6 feet away from people until your name is called, etc. etc. For my part, I will stay home when sick, practice good hand and cough hygiene, and alert hcp if I am coming in with a communicable disease so they may take appropriate measures.

I get some people are afraid of SSPE, despite it rareness. If you are one of them, then keep your baby as safe as possible till they receive their vaccine. That is all you can do. It is not my job to vaccinate my kids with a vaccine I have some serious reservations about because you are fearful.

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#23 of 130 Old 10-29-2016, 07:16 AM
 
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It is not my job to vaccinate my kids with a vaccine I have some serious reservations about because you are fearful.
Re-read the OP again.

Quote:
This is really scary
Quote:
Truly frightening
Fearful or promoting fear?
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#24 of 130 Old 10-29-2016, 11:16 AM
 
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If the measles vaccine is so darn wonderful and free of side effects, why is SSPE still a problem at all?

Why are doctors NOW, after 50 yrs, learning that SSPE really is still a health problem, despite the vaccine and SSPE is more common that previously thought? What is SSPE being confused with in the diagnosis process?

Many doctors do not know how to properly diagnose SSPE since they wrongly assume that the vaccine does the job.

Is there an SSPE vaccine in the works?

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#25 of 130 Old 10-29-2016, 12:22 PM
 
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If the measles vaccine is so darn wonderful and free of side effects, why is SSPE still a problem at all?

Why are doctors NOW, after 50 yrs, learning that SSPE really is still a health problem, despite the vaccine and SSPE is more common that previously thought? What is SSPE being confused with in the diagnosis process?

Many doctors do not know how to properly diagnose SSPE since they wrongly assume that the vaccine does the job.

Is there an SSPE vaccine in the works?
Very interesting.

From the OP link:

Quote:
The team started to look at possible SSPE cases after the German cases were reported. They found 16 people in California alone killed by SSPE - all diagnosed by autopsy after they died.
my bold

Did these people just expire without any symptoms? If doctors aren't diagnosing SSPE in people with a measles history whilst the patient is alive, why would we think they would diagnose SSPE in previously vaccinated people?

Patient: "Doc, I'm experiencing (insert SSPE symptoms here)".
Doc: "Have you ever had the measles?"
Patient: "No. I was vaccinated with the measles vaccine".
Doc: "Well can't be SSPE then".

Quote:
Incidence of subacute sclerosing panencephalitis following measles and measles vaccination in Japan.
Okuno Y1, Nakao T, Ishida N, Konno T, Mizutani H, Fukuyama Y, Sato T, Isomura S, Ueda S, Kitamura I, et al.

The Japanese Committee for the National Registry of Subacute Sclerosing Panencephalitis (SSPE) confirmed that 215 cases of SSPE occurred in the 20 years from 1966 to 1985, as discovered in the 10-year surveillance from April 1976 through March 1986. The annual incidence in recent years has been between 10 and 23 cases. Among cases with a certain history of measles illness or measles vaccination, 184 (90.2%) had a history of measles illness without receiving measles vaccine. There were 11 probable measles vaccine-associated cases (5.4%), three (1.5%) being vaccinated with a combined use of killed and live vaccine and eight (3.9%) with further attenuated live vaccine. There were nine cases (4.4%) without a history of either measles illness or measles vaccination.
So probable measles vaccine associated cases in Japan. And nine cases of no history of either measles illness or vaccination. What else causes/is associated with SSPE then?

Here's another case of SSPE following vaccination:

Quote:
Measles, mumps, rubella vaccine induced subacute sclerosing panencephalitis.
Belgamwar RB1, Prasad S, Appaya P.

The risk of SSPE after measles vaccination has been estimated at 0.7/million doses. This paper reports the case of a 15-year-old girl from India who developed SSPE presumably as a result of a delayed effect of measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine. She presented with a 2-month history of behavioral disturbances, a deterioration in school performance, forgetfulness, silly smiling, handwriting changes, social withdrawal, and ataxia. The girl had received MMR vaccine at 9 months of age and had no past history of measles. Her measles antibody titre was 1:625 in both serum and cerebrospinal fluid.
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#26 of 130 Old 10-29-2016, 10:34 PM
 
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Did these people just expire without any symptoms? If doctors aren't diagnosing SSPE in people with a measles history whilst the patient is alive, why would we think they would diagnose SSPE in previously vaccinated people?
Yes, I wonder what these people were diagnosed and treated for before they died. Looks like malpractice to me.
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#27 of 130 Old 10-30-2016, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Sorry don't have time to respond to everyone.

Yes, the 1 in 600 number was only for infants, not the entire population. And kathy, I would have to look later, but I do remember reading once that they do think some strains might be more likely to cause SSPE than others (in regards to the strain that was in Germany years back).

@Semaxtics, you do know that people can have a subclinical measles infection, right? In other words, they develop measles and show very little or no symptoms. Unfortunately, a subclinical infection does not prevent them from developing SSPE. There have been numerous cases of people who developed SSPE without a history of clinical measles who were found to have indeed had wild measles. See:

"Genetic studies have supported epidemiologic evidence that measles vaccine virus does not cause SSPE [6, 14, 15]. In cases of SSPE that developed in children or adults who had no history of measles but who did have a history of vaccination against measles virus, analysis of measles virus sequences derived from the patients confirmed the presence of the wild-type genome, indicating that the individuals had an undiagnosed measles virus infection [6, 7, 9]"

https://www.google.com/url?hl=en&q=h...Vwz_G2lCIM95sQ

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Last edited by teacozy; 10-30-2016 at 10:01 AM.
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#28 of 130 Old 10-30-2016, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Also, can you please provide a link to the studies and quotes you are using? I don't see a source. Thanks.

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#29 of 130 Old 10-30-2016, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
 
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As for what the patients who died never knowing what was wrong with them, I do not know for certain what they were diagnosed with. Interestingly enough, and yes I know this is a television show, the very first episode of House MD was about a teenager who is ultimately diagnosed with SSPE (spoiler alert, sorry). Initially, they thought it could be conditions like Leukoencephalopathy, Neurosyphilis, MS or even possibly some form of degenerative brain disease (although the younger a person is the less likely that would be considered). Just looking at the symptoms of those things, a lot of the symptoms do indeed fit the symptoms of SSPE.

Here is a "medical guide" to House MD where this episode is discussed by a 4th-year medical student, for those interested. The first comment is from a parent whose daughter has SSPE. How tragic. http://www.housemd-guide.com/house-m...paternity.html

The comment:

Quote:
My daughter(18) has SSPE. She started life as a healthy infant, although 6 weeks premature. At 13 months she contracted bacterial meningitis, which when treated went away. Unfortunately during her time in the hospital she contracted measles and had a case of measles virus. I remember being relieved it was only the measles, not a recurrence of the meningitis. Fast forward a few years, and she is 5 1/2 years old and doing well in kindergarten. In late winter of her kindergarten year she started to have trouble at school. She also started to need more sleep. We did not think too much of it. One evening she complained to my wife that her legs felt 'funny'. My wife thought that odd. The next day she was vomiting, and had a seizure. The doctors did a CT scan immediately as they worried of a brain tumor. No tumor. Again we were relieved. Over the next few days her condition worsened, and her pediatrician noticed elevated pressure in her brain(looking thru her eyes). Over the next few months she deteriorated rapidly, losing the ability to speak and communicate in any way, and losing all motor skills. Within 4 months she needed total care. The doctors felt the SSPE was progressing so rapidly she would live less than 1 year. However she stabilized after experimental ribavirin treatment into her brain, via a reverse shunt. That was 12 years ago and she is still with us. The doctors say she still has SSPE, although it appears that pnemonia is her biggest enemy today. She is still completely dependant on us as she can not communicate in any way or move voluntarily.

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#30 of 130 Old 10-30-2016, 11:40 AM
 
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@Semaxtics, you do know that people can have a subclinical measles infection, right? In other words, they develop measles and show very little or no symptoms. Unfortunately, a subclinical infection does not prevent them from developing SSPE. There have been numerous cases of people who developed SSPE without a history of clinical measles who were found to have indeed had wild measles.

https://www.google.com/url?hl=en&q=h...Vwz_G2lCIM95sQ
And you do know that vaccinated people can acquire subclinical measles infections even though they were vaccinated?


Quote:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9670353
Acute and long-term changes in T-lymphocyte subsets in response to clinical and subclinical measles. A community study from rural Senegal.

Lisse I, Samb B, Whittle H, Jensen H, Soumare M, Simondon F, Aaby P.

Subclinical measles was common among vaccinated children exposed to measles (45%).

Quote:
J Med Virol 1998 Sep;56(1):85-90
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9700638
Serological evidence indicates that measles virus (MV) could circulate in seropositive, fully protected populations. Among individuals fully protected against disease, those prone to asymptomatic secondary immune response are the most likely to support subclinical MV transmission...
A second vaccination did not seem to lower this incidence. Even when estimates of symptomatic secondary immune response (e.g., secondary vaccine failure) were taken into account, susceptibility to subclinical secondary immune response was still 5-8 times higher after vaccination than after natural infection.
my bold

Quote:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8758397
[Study on the subclinical infection of the recipients of measles vaccine]
Wu T, Wang SL, Xiang YZ.
Through observation to subclinical infection of the 71 children who had been inoculated against measles 12 years ago and then exposed to natural measles from three classes at a primary school, we have noticed: (1) Subclinical infection did exist among the crowd who were inoculation against measles; The rate of subclinical infection of the three classes was between 18.5%-75.0%, with an average of 45.1%. (2) The level of the HI Ab titer was between 1:2-1:16. The peak level was between 1:2 and/or 1:4. So the rate of subclinical infection who had been inoculation against measles but later exposed to natural measles would depend on the proportion of those whose titer of HI Ab was 1:2-1:4 in the crowd. (3) The epidemiological significance of subclinical measles infection lies in that it can actively keep and consolidate the level of immunity to certain extent in a crowd who had been inoculation against measles.
Here are the other two links: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9567594

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2807674

In a pinch, you can always copy and paste the title of the study into the search bar.
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