"People with natural immunity are carriers." - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 14 Old 08-20-2017, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
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"People with natural immunity are carriers."

That's why 2 nurses told me this week that 12 yo DD needs the pertussis vax even though she's had pertussis. I said, "Isn't there evidence that people who've had the vax can also infect other people, but without symptoms?" and HCP skipped a beat but went on to tell me that that wasn't true, because that's the reason "we" tell people to get the shot.

(At which point I realized that I know more about this issue than she does, and shut up to wait for her to be done with her lecture, and then I also observed that she is one of those people who talk more when they get nervous, so I ended up having to pointedly look at my watch twice before she stopped talking.)

Please discuss.
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#2 of 14 Old 08-20-2017, 09:30 AM
 
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Unless I am understanding your post incorrectly...the nurses are wrong.

I don't think anyone is a "carrier" of pertussis when in a healthy state- people either have pertussis or they don't. By and large, those who have had the pertussis shot are more likely to give someone pertussis unknowingly, as they often don't exhibit symptoms.

While stats are murky, I think it is unlikely your daughter will get pertussis again. There are few people an infant is safer around than one who is unvaccinated and known to have had pertussis.
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#3 of 14 Old 08-20-2017, 09:34 AM
 
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If I were a mom of an infant worried about pertussis - who would I prefer to have around my infant? Someone I knew for certain had pertussis or someone who has never knowingly had pertussis but is vaxxed on schedule? The person who has had pertussis - without question.
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#4 of 14 Old 08-20-2017, 02:59 PM
 
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Those nurses were wrong. If you're child has had pertussis then it's very likely she has immunity and so a vaccine would be useless.
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#5 of 14 Old 08-20-2017, 03:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by richella View Post
2 nurses told me this week that 12 yo DD needs the pertussis vax even though she's had pertussis.
I trust that you didn't let them give her a shot.
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#6 of 14 Old 08-20-2017, 05:25 PM
 
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A shot isn't needed for someone who had pertussis. I vaguely remember someone sharing a volume of detailed info about vaccines that strongly recommended against the shot for someone who had gone through the illness. That was 5 or 6 years ago, so I doubt I can remember the name of the book. It was mainstream data, though. Nope. Can't find it.

Sad that people who administer vaccines are misinformed about basic stuff.
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#7 of 14 Old 08-20-2017, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, everyone. I needed some reassurance that I'm not totally mixed up about this. I had read the CDC page recently enough to know that there's no expectation of herd immunity, and that 30% of people have no immunity 5 years after the last shot. (Do MDs tell every adult they run into to get a booster every 5 years? I didn't want to give them any ideas.) But the "carrier" thing caught me off guard.

Oh forgot, she also went into this thing about how the vax has whatever strains, and if DD got a different one, she doesn't have protection from the vax ones, and also being unvaxed could give the strains she hasn't had more opportunity to mutate, which happens quickly and now that I'm typing it I think she was grabbing random thoughts out of her head.

I didn't let her have the shot, and honestly I don't think that this office would do it, think they send everyone to the county health dept. So I'm not sure what this lady was expecting. She was subbing for the PA on vacation, and her ID tag said she was an "Advanced Nurse," whatever that means, but she did seem a little nervous and less than well-informed. Whatevs. Thanks again, everyone.
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#8 of 14 Old 08-21-2017, 05:25 AM
 
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This presentation from Dr Suzanne Humphries explains it all. As others have said, the nurse was wrong. It is the vaccinated who can harbor the pertussis bacteria and pass it on without displaying any symptoms. See the NIH baboon study (I think she probably gives the PMID# in the video).

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#9 of 14 Old 08-21-2017, 11:14 AM
 
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Originally Posted by richella View Post
Thanks, everyone. I needed some reassurance that I'm not totally mixed up about this. I had read the CDC page recently enough to know that there's no expectation of herd immunity, and that 30% of people have no immunity 5 years after the last shot. (Do MDs tell every adult they run into to get a booster every 5 years? I didn't want to give them any ideas.) But the "carrier" thing caught me off guard.
Oh, it may be worse than that....


"Accounting for nondifferential misclassification bias of vaccination status, vaccine effectiveness increased from 80%–85% to 95% or greater within 3 years since last vaccination. However, vaccine effectiveness was 63% after 4–7 years and declined to 22% (95% CI −70% to 73%) after 8 or more years (Table 2, Appendix 2). Excluding infants with an incomplete primary series, vaccine effectiveness increased within 1 year from last vaccination from 80% to 87%. Individuals tested in 2012–2013 were the main drivers of the waning immunity observed (Table 2).


We observed high effectiveness of the pertussis vaccine within 3 years of vaccination, but with clear evidence of waning of immunity beyond 4 years and little-to-no protection beyond 7 years from last vaccination...."


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5088088/

and this:

On the basis of 1207 pertussis cases, Tdap VE during the first year after vaccination was 68.8% (95% confidence interval [CI] 59.7% to 75.9%), decreasing to 8.9% (95% CI –30.6% to 36.4%) by ≥4 years after vaccination. Adolescents who were more remote from Tdap were significantly more likely to test positive for pertussis than were those vaccinated more recently (HR per year 1.35, 95% CI 1.22 to 1.50).
CONCLUSIONS: Routine Tdap did not prevent pertussis outbreaks. Among adolescents who have only received DTaP vaccines in childhood, Tdap provided moderate protection against pertussis during the first year and then waned rapidly so that litle protection remained 2-3 years after vaccination.
http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...53326.full.pdf
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#10 of 14 Old 08-21-2017, 01:43 PM
 
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Am I the only one here who see the irony that this thread presents?

We've had it pounded into our little girlie noggins that we're not supposed to trust the Big Bad Wolf called the Internet and instead turn to health care providers for advice on vaccines. Because they always know what they're talking about . . .

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines.” - Marcia Angell, M.D., former NEJM Editor
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#11 of 14 Old 08-21-2017, 05:54 PM
 
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Am I the only one here who see the irony that this thread presents?

We've had it pounded into our little girlie noggins that we're not supposed to trust the Big Bad Wolf called the Internet and instead turn to health care providers for advice on vaccines. Because they always know what they're talking about . . .
There are some old threads in the archives piled high with incorrect info from doctors, some of it ignorance, some outright untruths told with malice and aforethought.

But this is an amusing thread. In a sad sort of way.

That nurse has been reading the newspapers and the Internet instead of the CDC and the published science.
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#12 of 14 Old 08-23-2017, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That nurse has been reading the newspapers and the Internet instead of the CDC and the published science.
IKR! Thank heaven she's not our regular provider. I just took dd to her that day because we needed a sports physical asap, but I would never go back to her.
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#13 of 14 Old 08-23-2017, 07:24 PM
 
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IKR! Thank heaven she's not our regular provider. I just took dd to her that day because we needed a sports physical asap, but I would never go back to her.
Glad to hear that. What an experience. Educational, I guess. For you. Not for her, probably.
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#14 of 14 Old 08-24-2017, 11:57 AM
 
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Excellent thread. Reminds me of the doctor who could not diagnose a case of measles staring her in the face.

An excellent example of why it is not always a good idea to discuss these issues with your healthcare provider.

With all that I have faced and been accused of in my life, I would report this nurse to her licensing board for re-education. One knows this would happen if she spoke against vaccines, so why not when she gives out bad information.

Although, I know, the excuse will be that -

"YOU did not understand her, and we are sorry that she was not able to communicate the correct information to you." This is why people video and audio tape their encounters.

"Vaccines are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get - acute hemorrhagic edema of infancy, allergies, diabetes, eczema, petit/gran mal seizures, ADEM, AFP, ASIA, CFS, GBS, JPA, JRA, LGS, LKS, MS, POF, POTS, RA, SJS, SLE, SPD, TPI, Henoch-Schonlein purpua, fibromyalgia, Retts Syndrome, encephalitis, Hughes Syndrome, neurological damage, coma, or death."

~paraphrased from "Forrest Gump"~
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