Craig Egan's Pro-Vax World Tour - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 61 Old 08-31-2017, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Craig Egan's Pro-Vax World Tour

I'm sure all of us have heard of this by now. I've seen it mentioned in a few comments on various threads over the weeks and thought it might be a good idea to just condense the conversation in one place.

A recent piece seems to demonstrate the"World Tour" has been pretty effective. The bus has virtually moved underground and not doing hardly any public appearances anymore. They've stopped selling merchandise after Craig hinted that he was going to be looking into sales tax laws in individual states they were trying to sell their merchandise in. Etc.

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In any case, Egan is very effective, because he’s basically driven the VAXXED bus underground.

Basically, because of Egan, the locations of where the VAXXED bus will be have been kept as secret as possible, and some appearances have been moved to private homes, where Egan can’t go. In particular, I like how Egan turned the tables on the VAXXED crew in Minneapolis by calling the police on them for not having a permit to film a movie in a public park. The same sort of thing happened in Bettendorf, IA and St. Louis: No bus, or the event was moved to a private house.

Here he noted that Suzanne Humphries stopped showing up, as did Polly Tommey. I really have to wonder how fragile the message of VAXXED is if one person (or, sometimes, a handful of people) ... protesting, drives the whole crew and bus underground. I can’t help but think of similar behavior that I’ve noticed elsewhere…
Videos are on the link for those interested. In one of the videos, Craig notes that 3 out of the last 4 events that were initially public ones moved to private and says he considers the bus moving from a public location next to a pediatrician's office to a private one as a win, and notes they have now canceled tours in 10 cities. He says he can't take all the credit, but has obviously played a role in many of these developments.

I have to agree that it is a little amusing that a middle aged man (sometimes a handful of others show up too) peacefully protesting with signs has scared the Vaxx bus enough to the point of basically running them underground.


Note: Before someone inevitably brings up the blow horn incident, Craig Egan - unlike many non-vaxxers who have said or done offensive things - publically apologized saying that had he had any idea what was being discussed on the bus he wouldn't have done it and that it was a bad idea in hindsight and has not used it since.

So, for discussion, how effective do you think the tour has been?

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#2 of 61 Old 08-31-2017, 11:07 AM
 
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"Effective" as in harassing them with a loud blow horn while a grieving mother told her story about her dead child? If you consider the schoolyard bully style of mocking, belittling, stereotyping, and dehumanizing grieving parents "effective" in convincing the Vaxxed bus to find a private space, then yes, you may have a case. Given all of the amped up stalking, harassment, and intimidation, it's a small wonder that the Vaxxed bus has to resort to secrecy.

Has walking around with a sign by day and posting drunken, profane videos by night been effective in actually changing minds? That remains up for debate. I wish he would have stuck with just that, however, because his character has hit rock bottom with his latest tactics. That you condone the latter speaks volumes about the pro-compliance movement.

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#3 of 61 Old 08-31-2017, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I didn't say I condoned the blow-horn issue. I noted that he publically apologized for it. He didn't know what was being discussed in the bus at any given moment at all. He is not within ear shot distance. Plus, as he pointed out, not once did anyone ever come out and ask him to stop for any reason. How was he supposed to know? He said it was a mistake in hindsight and apologized.

Peacefully protesting and harassment are not the same thing. Not once has anyone from the Vaxxed team ever even hinted that he has been physically aggressive or threatening towards them. He stands with a sign.

Your last sentence is beyond ironic considering the things that non/anti-vaxxers condone or refuse to speak out against. Like Del comparing autistic children to chimpanzees and Dobermans, Wakefield laughing at children fainting and crying after he unethically drew their blood at a birthday party, Polly saying she won't judge parents that murder their autistic children, and- most recently- filming and putting up a video from the Vaxxed bus where the Linderman couple are interviewed laughing about the possibility of shooting vaccine advocates and doctors. https://www.facebook.com/wearevaxxed...location=group

And that is just scratching the surface.

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#4 of 61 Old 08-31-2017, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I absolutely "condone" his constitutional right to peacefully protest, just as I would for any other person.

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#5 of 61 Old 08-31-2017, 12:13 PM
 
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I didn't say I condoned the blow-horn issue. I noted that he publically apologized for it. He didn't know what was being discussed in the bus at any given moment at all. He is not within ear shot distance. Plus, as he pointed out, not once did anyone ever come out and ask him to stop for any reason. How was he supposed to know? He said it was a mistake in hindsight and apologized.
Please stop making excuses for him.

This is the Vaxxed bus. Del and Polly have made it quite clear what happens on the Vaxxed bus. What did Craig think he was interrupting with his blow horn? A game of pinochle?
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#6 of 61 Old 08-31-2017, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post
Please stop making excuses for him.

This is the Vaxxed bus. Del and Polly have made it quite clear what happens on the Vaxxed bus. What did Craig think he was interrupting with his blow horn? A game of pinochle?
See link to Linderman video above posted a few days ago. That is not a somber video. They film all sorts of things on the Vaxxed bus. Sometimes Polly just films updates. Again, no one came out and asked him to stop. Why wouldn't they do so if they felt it was upsetting the mother so much? He can not see or hear what is going on in the bus from where he stands. It was a mistake in hindsight but he did not do it maliciously to hurt that mother.
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#7 of 61 Old 08-31-2017, 01:00 PM
 
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The Vaxxed tour has been quite effective. We are still discussing it one year on.

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#8 of 61 Old 08-31-2017, 06:15 PM
 
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As an example of how awful the behavior of some vaccine supporters can be, Craig and his companions couldn't be better.

Thank you for trying to justify what has been going on @teacozy .
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#9 of 61 Old 08-31-2017, 06:37 PM
 
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No demonstrators at this stop? http://b100quadcities.com/vaxxed-bus...e-quad-cities/
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#10 of 61 Old 08-31-2017, 06:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post
"Effective" as in harassing them with a loud blow horn while a grieving mother told her story about her dead child?
Wow, oh wow, what a potty mouth he is. Why on earth is he so fanatical about this? No one is talking about taking away the right of folks who want to vaccinate to vaccinate.

According to a flyer I received in the mail, only 6% of adults in Canada are purportedly up to date with their vaccinations. Wonder if Craig is up to date.

I'm convinced that he and Brian Deer would get on like a house on fire.
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#11 of 61 Old 08-31-2017, 10:21 PM
 
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See link to Linderman video above posted a few days ago. That is not a somber video. They film all sorts of things on the Vaxxed bus. Sometimes Polly just films updates.
So exactly what was Craig thinking when he pulled out the blow horn? "Well, I'll go ahead and blow this thing and just hope that they aren't filming one of their dead-baby segments."

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Again, no one came out and asked him to stop. Why wouldn't they do so if they felt it was upsetting the mother so much?
So they were asking for it, then. Nice.

I don't know if you've ever actively listened to a friend pour out his/her heart, but the context isn't always ideal for, "Hold that thought about your dead baby. I need to go silence a UAV with a blow horn."

Look, if promoters of vaccine compliance really want to stop the spread of disease, do you seriously think that stalking the Vaxxed bus is going to do it? How many children have ended up vaccine-compliant as a result of Craig strutting in front of the Vaxxed bus? How many "heathens" has he converted with his blow horn and inebriated You Tube rants? (e.g. "I hope that bus f*cking blows up!") As soon as you can answer those questions, then we can discuss how "effective" he is.

In the meantime, Craig's junket is a waste of money, and to spend precious donation money on it is so First World. Why not consider writing a check that will actually save lives from infectious disease?
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I think it speaks volumes that Craig so lacked the confidence that anyone would pay heed to his sign to "honk for vaccines" that he felt compelled to bring an air horn so there could be a "honk".

It seems like the mindset of provaxxers like Craig, teacozy et al, is to prop their position up by drowning out the voices of injuries rather than show any empathy towards or intellectual curiosity about why these children whose stories are being told on the VaXXed bus by their parents are so ill or dead following vaccinations.

Nothing amusing about it.
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#13 of 61 Old 09-01-2017, 06:18 AM
 
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See link to Linderman video above posted a few days ago. That is not a somber video. They film all sorts of things on the Vaxxed bus. Sometimes Polly just films updates. Again, no one came out and asked him to stop. Why wouldn't they do so if they felt it was upsetting the mother so much? He can not see or hear what is going on in the bus from where he stands. It was a mistake in hindsight but he did not do it maliciously to hurt that mother.

Craig knows they film parents' stories of their children being injured by vaccines which includes death on the VaXXed bus.

Craig sees parents walk onto the VaXXed bus.

Craig continually blows air horn for the duration of the parents' visit.

teacozy defends Craig by saying he didn't know and should have been told.
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I think it speaks volumes that Craig so lacked the confidence that anyone would pay heed to his sign to "honk for vaccines" that he felt compelled to bring an air horn so there could be a "honk".
In the UK honk is slang for vomit.
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/honk
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#15 of 61 Old 09-01-2017, 05:19 PM
 
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According to Nancy H.'s piece at AOA:

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Someone even attempted to shut down the VaxXed event by calling park police, though event organizers had a permit.
my bold

which is not what teacozy's linked piece claims:

Quote:
In particular, I like how Egan turned the tables on the VAXXED crew in Minneapolis by calling the police on them for not having a permit to film a movie in a public park.

I wonder if the people in teacozy's piece actually asked the VaXXed team if they had a permit first before wasting police time and taxpayer's money?

Craig was accompanied by Karen Ernst and Patsy Stinchfield described in the following quotes:

Quote:
Another empathy-challenged intruder was Karen Ernst of the faux consumer group Voices for Vaccines, who showed up to lurk and smirk. Though the VaxXed bus is a travelling monument recognizing health damage and deaths caused by vaccines, photos taken that day indicate she found the gathering amusing. Her disturbingly inappropriate affect is profoundly disrespectful at an event commemorating the sick and dead, their caregivers, and their mourners.
and

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Rather than listen to victims’ health realities or suggest medical treatments, Nurse Stinchfield patronized them by proposing what amounted to irrelevant “alternate facts.” “Stinchfield actually tried to suggest alternative diagnoses for them — without knowing anything about their medical history, which vaccines were received, or what their health status was at the time of the vaccine injury,” Carroll said.
Sounds like the type of people enthusiastic vaxxers want to align themselves with!
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#16 of 61 Old 09-01-2017, 07:15 PM
 
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I'm actually seeing MORE news coverage of Vaxxed, so I think that Craig is having the opposite effect of what you claim.
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Videos are on the link for those interested. In one of the videos, Craig notes that 3 out of the last 4 events that were initially public ones moved to private and says he considers the bus moving from a public location next to a pediatrician's office to a private one as a win, and notes they have now canceled tours in 10 cities. He says he can't take all the credit, but has obviously played a role in many of these developments.

I have to agree that it is a little amusing that a middle aged man (sometimes a handful of others show up too) peacefully protesting with signs has scared the Vaxx bus enough to the point of basically running them underground.
Okay. @teacozy this is what puzzles me. The vaccine program is, in your eyes and in Craig's eyes an overwhelming public good, deserving of financial and social support. Does it also deserve to shut down the voices of those people who believe that they or their children experienced vaccine injuries? On what basis is blocking or trying to block the voices of these people supportive of the goodness of vaccines?
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#17 of 61 Old 09-01-2017, 07:17 PM
 
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One example of Vaxxed publicity. http://wdtn.com/2017/08/31/react-bus...nation-debate/

Mentions Craig, but not with great admiration. I'm not going to bother quoting the article quoting Craig. Not very interesting.

A short excerpt:
Quote:
CENTERVILLE, OH (WDTN) – For many years the CDC has denied any link between childhood vaccinations and autism.
Despite those findings, some in the Miami Valley are debating the validity of the governments claims.
A bus is traveling across the country making stops and talking with parents about their experiences with vaccinations.
Thursday, the Vaxxed bus stopped in Centerville where a group of about 30 people anxiously waited to share their story.
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Oh, one reason for keeping bus location secret, especially if there are associated programs, is the pro-vaccine strategy of demanding that a properly rented site kick out the program because it is critical of vaccines.

In the last few years there have been two vax related programs in Vermont and in both cases the pro-vaccine tried to pull the venue out from under the program. Nice system. If you do publicize the program, people try using unfair strategies to shut it down. If you don't publicize the program, then no one knows about it and it might end up cancelled due to lack of participation.

What are the vaccine supporters so scared about?
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Oh, one reason for keeping bus location secret, especially if there are associated programs, is the pro-vaccine strategy of demanding that a properly rented site kick out the program because it is critical of vaccines.
But, but . . . . I thought that:

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I absolutely "condone" his constitutional right to peacefully protest, just as I would for any other person.
Unless people are peacefully protesting the vaccine program. Then it's OK to use any means possible to silence them.

And---just sayin'-- a blow horn may not be violent, but it's not "peaceful." In many municipalities, it would constitute disturbing the peace, a misdemeanor. But don't worry. Calling the police to shut Craig down wouldn't be censorship because people could still listen to his blow horn in other venues. Like You Tube.
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#20 of 61 Old 09-01-2017, 09:34 PM
 
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But, but . . . . I thought that:



Unless people are peacefully protesting the vaccine program. Then it's OK to use any means possible to silence them.

And---just sayin'-- a blow horn may not be violent, but it's not "peaceful." In many municipalities, it would constitute disturbing the peace, a misdemeanor. But don't worry. Calling the police to shut Craig down wouldn't be censorship because people could still listen to his blow horn in other venues. Like You Tube.
We just need to understand that pretty much any behavior that supports vaccines is okay. Even admirable.

And...any behavior that undermines the vaccine program in any way is bad and should be censored and attacked. See the attacks on the parents in Ireland for describing what happened to their daughters. http://www.thejournal.ie/hpv-vaccine-8-3572223-Aug2017/

In real life I find it very hard to admire the pro-vaccine behavior I've seen over the last 18 years.

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We just need to understand that pretty much any behavior that supports vaccines is okay. Even admirable.

And...any behavior that undermines the vaccine program in any way is bad and should be censored and attacked. See the attacks on the parents in Ireland for describing what happened to their daughters. http://www.thejournal.ie/hpv-vaccine-8-3572223-Aug2017/

In real life I find it very hard to admire the pro-vaccine behavior I've seen over the last 18 years.
There is recurrent behaviour in the pro-vaccine movement that people with a modicum of humanity I think should find disturbing. Their words and actions do not line up with their message of trying to protect children or the masses. I can't think of one pro-vaxx spokesperson that comes across as genuinely empathetic or compassionate. The people who push the product are as untrustworthy as the product IMO.
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I would still like to know how "effective" is being defined here.

Detach yourself for a moment and pretend that the issue isn't even about vaccines. From a standpoint of presentation and perception, which do you think will resonate more powerfully with the public: A mother opening up about her child's tragedy, or a white, middle-age, childless Uber driver from Tacoma holding a sign and filming himself cursing and mocking others?
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#23 of 61 Old 09-02-2017, 06:47 PM
 
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I would still like to know how "effective" is being defined here.

Detach yourself for a moment and pretend that the issue isn't even about vaccines. From a standpoint of presentation and perception, which do you think will resonate more powerfully with the public: A mother opening up about her child's tragedy, or a white, middle-age, childless Uber driver from Tacoma holding a sign and filming himself cursing and mocking others?
There were two claims that teacozy quoted. One was that some of the planned stops had been eliminated and the other is that public locations had been curtailed. The problem is one of correlation and causation. Craig states that he isn't sure if either of the phenomena is the result of his actions, but he thinks they might be, maybe, partially.

Yeah, and with high enough vaccination rates using the current vaccine we can eliminate whooping cough...
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#24 of 61 Old 09-02-2017, 09:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by samaxtics View Post
I can't think of one pro-vaxx spokesperson that comes across as genuinely empathetic or compassionate. The people who push the product are as untrustworthy as the product IMO.
It seems that they are no better than snake oil salesmen:
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#25 of 61 Old 09-04-2017, 04:23 PM
 
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It seems that they are no better than snake oil salesmen:
JD Rockefeller's father was a snake oil saleman. He went from town to town selling his quack remedy which was usually a laxative of some kind. Odd that a man who invested his millions heavily in the allopathic medical mindset would be the son of a salesman who made his livelihood in quackery - but then called anything outside of the allopathic realm quackery.

Men who had invested heavily in modern medicine went to all of the state legislatures to outlaw midwives, herbalists, naturopaths, and later chiropractic, homeopaths, and made it impossible for anyone other than "regular doctors" to practice.
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"Vaccines are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get - acute hemorrhagic edema of infancy, allergies, diabetes, eczema, petit/gran mal seizures, ADEM, AFP, ASIA, CFS, GBS, JPA, JRA, LGS, LKS, MS, POF, POTS, RA, SJS, SLE, SPD, TPI, Henoch-Schonlein purpua, fibromyalgia, Retts Syndrome, encephalitis, Hughes Syndrome, neurological damage, coma, or death."

~paraphrased from "Forrest Gump"~
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#26 of 61 Old 09-04-2017, 04:43 PM
 
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JD Rockefeller's father was a snake oil saleman. He went from town to town selling his quack remedy which was usually a laxative of some kind. Odd that a man who invested his millions heavily in the allopathic medical mindset would be the son of a salesman who made his livelihood in quackery - but then called anything outside of the allopathic realm quackery.

Men who had invested heavily in modern medicine went to all of the state legislatures to outlaw midwives, herbalists, naturopaths, and later chiropractic, homeopaths, and made it impossible for anyone other than "regular doctors" to practice.
This is an interesting article regarding the original meaning of 'quack'. http://orthomolecular.org/library/jo...n04-p187.shtml
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#27 of 61 Old 09-05-2017, 07:11 AM
 
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Craig Egan's Pro-Vax World Tour
Has Craig been outside of the US? Or is his "world" tour the same as the baseball championship where only one team outside of the US participates but nevertheless it's called the "World Series"?
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#28 of 61 Old 09-05-2017, 05:56 PM
 
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Has Craig been outside of the US? Or is his "world" tour the same as the baseball championship where only one team outside of the US participates but nevertheless it's called the "World Series"?
I don't think we should compare Craig's activities to a baseball championship...
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#29 of 61 Old 09-05-2017, 07:10 PM
 
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Craig gets some positive press https://www.statnews.com/2017/09/05/...sts-road-trip/

Quote:
Take Minneapolis. Egan knew the bus was heading there, but wasn’t sure where it would set up.
So he got creative: He had his girlfriend, Sharon Schroeder, send an email to the Vaxxed team posing under a fake name as a vaccine-injured woman. Schroeder described her experience of getting the HPV vaccine, which is recommended for preteen boys and girls, and then going through the normal signs of puberty, such as enlargement of the breasts. Could she come share her story in Minneapolis?
The response: Absolutely. The tour manager sent her a time slot and address — but urged her to “PLEASE keep this confidential as we want to avoid the troll, Craig, who is following us around.”
The email continued: “It would be a smoother event if he could never find us.”
When the big bus pulled up, Egan was there waiting for them.
Gosh, if a vaccine critic pulled something like that...
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#30 of 61 Old 09-09-2017, 07:39 PM
 
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Kissy kissy with Offit. How sweet.

http://www.philly.com/philly/health/...-20170908.html
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