Coincidence strikes again - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 16 Old 09-23-2017, 09:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Coincidence strikes again

It seems coincidence has struck again: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/453049...hrough-tragedy

Noticed this:
Quote:
Retired hospital receptionist Mrs Way said the babies' single mum had taken them for a check-up on Friday at the local clinic.
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#2 of 16 Old 09-24-2017, 08:02 AM
 
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Yes, and the UK introduced the Infantrix Hexa in August, but NHS have been giving it for a few months now and we know from other countries (India, Netherlands, Italy) it is a killer. What happens at infant check-ups, aka well-baby visits? They are scheduled around the vaccine scheduled, and the Infantrix Hexa is given at 8, 12 and 16 weeks. These babies were premies so it is highly likely they were administered the third dose a little late.

Unfortunately, the UK coroner will not say that the vaccines were the cause of death, so it will be another coincidental SIDS death. Very sad.
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#3 of 16 Old 09-24-2017, 05:57 PM
 
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The medical vaccine pushers are in a terrible bind.

If a baby gets very sick or dies shortly after receiving vaccines there are no good ways to respond.

If they say up front: "it is not the vaccines" everyone will immediately start thinking that it might have been the vaccines and the doctor is just denying responsibility. Especially if the doctor doesn't even bother to look up which vaccines were given and what sort of problems have been reported following vaccination.

If the medical people say: "we have no idea what happened, let's do an autopsy" then people who know that the baby just got vaccines will wonder why they aren't mentioned. If the baby had just been given a new drug, it would certainly have been on the table for consideration, right?

Tough situation for people who are under pressure to defend vaccines at all cost.

Especially tough if the parents say: "my baby got a load of vaccines yesterday and is terribly ill today." Doctors get no training on how to respond to truly negative stuff following vaccines except for allergic reactions, so the chances are high that they'll say something which is either dumb or tactless.
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#4 of 16 Old 09-25-2017, 10:05 AM
 
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No condolences for this poor mother? Sad.

It's hard to imagine something more horrific than losing two children on the same day.

Just out of curiosity, where does it even say they were vaccinated? These were premature triplets. Presumably, they have more check-ups than a term singleton would. A check-up does not mean they received a vaccine.

Unfortunately, these triplets had a lot of risk factors for SIDS. They were all boys, and boys are more likely to die from SIDS than girls. They were premature, which also increases their risk of SIDS. Multiples are more than twice as likely to die from SIDS than singletons. In fact, if one twin dies of SIDS, the other is at a 6 to 12-fold increased risk of also dying from SIDS, suggesting a possible genetic or congenital component. Of course, these were triplets which are rare and not as easy to study as twins, but it follows that triplets would also have many of these increased risk factors.


http://www.marchofdimes.org/baby/sud...-syndrome.aspx

https://newswise.com/articles/increa...-risk-in-twins

It could also turn out that they tragically suffocated in their sleep from a blanket or pillow. Or maybe they were sharing a crib. Who knows? The autopsy and investigation are not over yet. Maybe wait for those to be completed before using these two babies for your anti-vaccine fodder?

The last time a bunch of non-vaxxers on facebook jumped on a story of a baby suddenly dying and hounding the mother about vaccines causing it, it backfired terribly. The mother came forward and said she found a baby blanket wrapped our her baby's head and that he had suffocated and it had nothing to do with vaccines. This was just a couple months ago. The story was all over the news and People.

Quote:
A Washington mother whose 7-month-old son died in a tragic accident on Monday has shared her grief on Facebook as a warning to others who let their young children go to sleep with blankets. Jordan DeRosier, whose youngest son Sloan was discovered with his blanket around his head, said she was moved to share her heartbreak after commenters began blaming vaccines for her baby’s death.

“Initially I had not wanted to explain the detailed circumstances of his death because of my guilt and the fear of condemnation from others,” DeRosier posted, in part, on July 4. “But I will not allow anyone to try and place blame where it does not belong.”

DeRosier explained that she had put Sloan to bed with a blanket made by his great-grandmother and another grey one that he was attached to since birth.

“They took the grey one he had been found with his head in,” she posted. “He had pulled it through the crib rails somehow and gotten himself stuck in it. You never think it will happen to you. You never think it will be your baby. Please do not put your babies to bed with a blanket. Please. He was 7 months old, I thought because he was crawling, standing on his own, and climbing, that he would be fine with a blanket.”
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2017/0...rn-others.html

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#5 of 16 Old 09-25-2017, 12:27 PM
 
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Indeed, pictures on the mother's facebook page show the triplets together in one crib, and the triplets sleeping together on a soft sofa with pillows. Those things are not advised. There are warnings against letting babies share cribs because it increases the risk of SIDS, overheating, and suffocation.

It is way too early to be suggesting vaccines had anything to do with this.

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#6 of 16 Old 09-25-2017, 08:19 PM
 
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This whole thing is distasteful.

Let's wait for the postmortem.

The article says it was carbon monoxide poisoning. Anyone know if that is a verifiable death?

I would not assume pictures of babies together in a crib or on a sofa were anything more than photo-ops. It does not mean they regularly slept together.

2/3 of the babies succumbing to SIDS on the same day seems unlikely. 5 months is also a tad old for SIDS (although hardly unheard of sadly).
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#7 of 16 Old 09-25-2017, 08:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
This whole thing is distasteful.

Let's wait for the postmortem.

The article says it was carbon monoxide poisoning. Anyone know if that is a verifiable death?

I would not assume pictures of babies together in a crib or on a sofa were anything more than photo-ops. It does not mean they regularly slept together.

2/3 of the babies succumbing to SIDS on the same seems unlikely. 5 months is also a tad old for SIDS (although hardly unheard of sadly).
later articles say that it wasn't carbon monoxide poisoning.
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#8 of 16 Old 09-25-2017, 08:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post



The article says it was carbon monoxide poisoning. Anyone know if that is a verifiable death?



).


It definitely is. Whoever does the pm will need to take blood and request carbon monoxide levels but, if it is suspected then I imagine that would be the first thing they'd do.


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#9 of 16 Old 09-26-2017, 05:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
This whole thing is distasteful.

Let's wait for the postmortem.

The article says it was carbon monoxide poisoning. Anyone know if that is a verifiable death?

I would not assume pictures of babies together in a crib or on a sofa were anything more than photo-ops. It does not mean they regularly slept together.

2/3 of the babies succumbing to SIDS on the same seems unlikely. 5 months is also a tad old for SIDS (although hardly unheard of sadly).
Carbon monoxide poisoning has been ruled out, they are calling it a tragic "accident" (my emphasis). The odds of two babies dying of SIDS is incredibly long, but then it happened recently with twin girls dying shortly after vaccines, death was ruled SIDS.

http://yournewswire.com/baby-twins-die-vaccinations/

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#10 of 16 Old 09-26-2017, 05:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
later articles say that it wasn't carbon monoxide poisoning.
Did a little digging. Here is an article ruling out carbon monoxide:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/453423...led-out-wales/

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#11 of 16 Old 09-26-2017, 05:52 AM
 
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Carbon monoxide poisoning has been ruled out, they are calling it a tragic "accident" (my emphasis). The odds of two babies dying of SIDS is incredibly long, but then it happened recently with twin girls dying shortly after vaccines, death was ruled SIDS.

http://yournewswire.com/baby-twins-die-vaccinations/
I am disinclined to believe twins or 2 of 3 triplets died from SIDS on the same day. Even with the risk factors Tea laid out, the math on this happening seems astronomically low.
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#12 of 16 Old 09-26-2017, 06:32 AM
 
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@kathymuggle , I would also say the ruling from the post-mortem from the babies will not be very enlightening, the UK coroner is not allowed to rule death by vaccines, even if it was.
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#13 of 16 Old 09-26-2017, 06:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
No condolences for this poor mother? Sad.

l[/url]
Where are the condolences in your post?
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#14 of 16 Old 09-26-2017, 07:15 AM
 
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@kathymuggle , I would also say the ruling from the post-mortem from the babies will not be very enlightening, the UK coroner is not allowed to rule death by vaccines, even if it was.
You are probably correct.

This will probably be written off as SIDS, which is a complete disservice to the family.

The fact that two babies from the same family died of SIDS on the same day should have the coroner turning over every angle (including what may have been given to the babies at their well baby check up) to see if something is up, instead of just slapping an umbrella term on it and moving on.

I am cynical, though. Maybe we will be wrong. According to one news report, the coroners report should be out in a week or so.

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#15 of 16 Old 09-26-2017, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
I am disinclined to believe twins or 2 of 3 triplets died from SIDS on the same day. Even with the risk factors Tea laid out, the math on this happening seems astronomically low.
From @teacozy 's 2nd link
Quote:
Of the 66,276 fraternal and identical twins in Malloy's study, 183 were identified as dying of SIDS, including three pairs of twins. Cases of both twins dying were rare.
and

Quote:
Malloy's study may also dispel a myth that twins die of SIDS on the same day. At least in 1987, none of the three pairs of twins dying of SIDS died on the same day.
Wouldn't that data be useful for comparison for later years i.e. after the increase in the vaccination schedule/other considerations?

I have been meaning to find the thread @Deborah recently posted about the SIDS case that was won in vaccine injury court and give it a bump. There's some interesting testimony there. The little guy that passed, was a healthy premie.

The term "anti vaccine fodder,' was used in a previous post.

If I were the parent of a premie or possibly multiples, I think I would want to know, the current thinking on SIDS and mild infections coupled with a brain abnormality/immature developement. As I was reading the injury case, I couldn't help but think about "mild illness," not being a contraindication to vaccinating and then the testimony about the cytokine profile resembling an influenza patient, in vaccinated (SIDS?... have to reread) infants.

If there are circumstances that lean more toward "an accident," I don't believe anyone here, would want to implicate vaccines.

I have such respect and sympathy for the mother that @teacozy posted about, who had the courage to share her son's tragic story about the blanket.

From what I have read, it does look like the home was checked for carbon monoxide and ruled out.

I couldn't find any pictures on facebook where the 3 infants were all sleeping in the same crib or the other pictures that were described, but I didn't find her personal page, only media accounts.
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#16 of 16 Old 09-26-2017, 09:19 AM
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Clarification of post above
Quote:
If I were the parent of a premie or possibly multiples, I think I would want to know, the current thinking on SIDS and mild infections coupled with a brain abnormality/immature developement. As I was reading the injury case, I couldn't help but think about "mild illness," not being a contraindication to vaccinating and then the testimony about the cytokine profile resembling an influenza patient, in vaccinated (SIDS?... have to reread) infants.
I was referring to
Kashiwagi page 20
last paragraph
https://ecf.cofc.uscourts.gov/cgi-bi...013vv0611-73-0

Not SIDS. Febrile and non febrile vaccinated, compared to "normal."


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SIDS case in the vaccine court

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