Even 'non-vax friendly' doctors intimidate... - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 29 Old 04-07-2005, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I decided to try out a new doctor. The practice I went to is supposed to be non-vax friendly. Now I will say that I wasn't heavily lectured, nor was the experience bad in comparision to some I have read about, and the doctor had the attitude that it is my decision. The experience was not bad enough that I wouldn't go back or take my other children there.

BUT... she did state that she felt tetnus was important since tetnus lives in soil. There was a discussion here a few weeks ago about that and my personal feeling is that a 35 yr old subdivision soil is low risk for carrying tetnus. She stated that if tetnus is given in an emergancy situation it is combined with a globulin which is of a blood base and poses more risk that the vaccine itself. I believe she is right about that. I asked if tetnus was available in a single vaccine for infants. She left to check, no. I knew that it wasn't available for infants. But no scare tactics were used for this one really. She did state a 1 1/2 mo old die of pertussis in WV this past year and noted that the vaccine wouldn't have helped anyway. And that a non-vaxed person probably gave the disease to the infant...

She also discussed prevnar and hib, but since dd is over 1 she really focused in on prevnar and how pnemococcal bacteria can kill in 1 day. I stated that I knew the bacteria strains for which this vax covers are for antibiotic resistant strains and I saw that was a danger. I feel telling me that the bacteria are nasty and kill in 1 day is a scare tactic. I was trying to get her to tell me where these bacteria come from, but didn't get an answer. I wasn't really direct, we got interupted several times.

Her comment on IPV was that we live in a transient community, while this is true for the area the office I went to is in, I live 50 miles away.

And lastly rubella, that my dc could infect a pregnant woman and cause that woman to have a baby with a birth defect. Like I'm not into protecting public health, I'm into protecting my own child and breaking the cycle of vaccines that do not give life long immunity.

And speaking of which, I was told breast milk immunity for pertussis is weak at best. I told her I had been vaxed and had pertussis when I was 3. She said breastmilk immunities are strongest for chicken pox and measles. I clarified that is only true if you actually have had the disease.

Her position is one of public health and yet she fails to realize that if people got common childhood illness like measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox and pertussis the diseases would not be a threat to pregnant woman and the older population. Vaccinate those who are past the age of "rare complications" and leave the rest to obtain life long immunity through a small bit of discomfort.

She did tell me that they would give Td instead of DTaP and that they carry the MMR in separate vaccines. And that they want their patients to feel comfortable with their decisions. No mention that separate vaccines increase the amount of "crap" in the vaccine (aluminum, mercury, fetal cells, etc.) going into your child.

She doesn't think antibiotics are the answer to every illness and She did recommend organic sunscreen which is a change. I told her about solarveil, she didn't know about it. When I go back I will bring a swatch in with a photo of my children in their solarveil summer jackets.

Oh, she liked my fuzzi bunz diapers!!! And thought it was interesting that my just 1 year old pops in the potty -- "how do you do that ?" was her question!

I think they are more selective and delay vax friendly and given the options around here are very limited -- I'll take this over the alternative.

And I guess I should add, that I did leave there with no vaxes. I do have a few questions to clear up just to make sure I'm still comfortable with my decisions. But that is normal for me, I double check myself from time to time.
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#2 of 29 Old 04-08-2005, 12:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Electra375
And I guess I should add, that I did leave there with no vaxes. I do have a few questions to clear up just to make sure I'm still comfortable with my decisions. But that is normal for me, I double check myself from time to time.

After all that, congratulations on not getting at least 'a few' for the road....
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#3 of 29 Old 04-08-2005, 12:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm surprised no one has even posted a "BTDT" or thumps up or something.

I have to admit, I am so glad I took time out from my at home job this evening to read up on the Prevnar vaccine, I needed confirmation that it was bad news. I never looked closely at it b/c new vaccines are just off my list of worries to begin with. But yes, this doctor messed with my head just enough to get me to come back to my trusted research sites and learn more stuff I wish I didn't have to keep up with in my brain.

In addition, I did some re-reading on tetanus and again feel confirmed in my decision that no vaccine at this point is a good vaccine.

It's high time I found a copy of Dr. Mendelsohn's book.

I hate to think that after any appt with this doctor I'm going to be rushing home to re-read documentation of why I don't vaccinate any more b/c she messed with my head again. Of course, maybe over time I will think more quickly on my feet and give my side back to her very clear and concise...

I am so very thankful that I did not cave in. I know they were aiming for "just get 1 into that child"...
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#4 of 29 Old 04-08-2005, 12:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks Gitti.
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#5 of 29 Old 04-08-2005, 12:11 AM
 
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The same thing happened to me with a ped who was recommended to me by another MDC mama as being non-vax friendly. She didn't get into tetanus but she gave me all the other lines your ped gave you and tried to guilt trip me about public health with the rubella, etc.

We left her office with no vaxes but she gave us info sheets on all of the vaxes and tried to talk me into giving our daughter the Pediarix combo vaccine since if I am really concerned about my daughter's health and well being then I wouldn't subject her to having to have separate shots when she could get "poked" less by having the Pediarix :

She also said it was "ok with her" that we use an arm's reach co-sleeper but that she no longer recommends co-sleeping because of some study that came out recently (even though she co-slept with two of her own kids before this magical study came out saying it was a no-no!). Gee thanks, Doc, I'm so glad my family's private sleeping arrangements are "ok with you"

It was so frustrating going into a visit a whole hour drive from my house based on being told this ped was crunchy and non-vax friendly and then getting bombarded about vaxing.
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#6 of 29 Old 04-08-2005, 12:42 AM
 
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good for you for sticking to your guns!

l, <>< wife to my sweetie, proud mama to 3 cubs, 2 who clw & 1 that i i ep for . baby was evicted early by induction due to severe pre-e/hellp syndrome
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#7 of 29 Old 04-08-2005, 01:00 AM
 
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Hmmmm....I've been following your search for a doc with interest (is that scary stalkerish?? :LOL ), and I'm curious if this is the place you were recommended here? Feel free to PM me if you want.

I'm trying to organize an API meeting with the Nat'l Vacc. Info Center, here in Vienna, and they mentioned that they get a lot of inquiries about local docs. It seems to be slim pickin's, for sure! I was hoping you'd have a good experience (though we have Kaiser :blorf: and if I'm going to have to deal with vax pressure, I might as well do it close to home and for free ).
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#8 of 29 Old 04-08-2005, 01:12 AM
 
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Wow. I didn't think I would have classified our ped as 'non-vax friendly', but I got off easier than you folks. At our first visit, he talked to me about herd immunity a bit and told me to read what was on the aap and cdc sites about vaxes. At our second visit, I confused the nurse* and then when he came in he said something like "now, I seem to recall that you guys aren't vaxing" and I affirmed, and he just said "well, I can't make you, that's your choice" and on to the measuring and developmental stuff. He's pro-cosleeping and pro-bfing (used to be affiliated with LLL), too. Doesn't believe my daughter could be sensitive to dairy, though. I KNOW she is and I dealt with it myself, but I thought that was a little odd.

*Okay, so the nurse comes in and says "so, we're getting some shots today" and I said "No." "You dont' think so?" she said smirkily. "No, we're not" I said firmly. "Okay..." she said kind of puzzled. And she did the temp and weight and stuff, and then asked if we got a vax paper at the hospital. "You mean the one with the info about Hep B?" "No, a card to record them." "Well, I don't need one since we're not getting them." I think it may have finally sunk in. She left the room anyway, no more attempt at discussion about it or whatnot.
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#9 of 29 Old 04-08-2005, 02:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I've been unable to sleep recounting the activities of the day. I'm mad at myself for signing the stupid "refusal to vaccinate" form -- I should have been more prepared. I almost drew one up myself, but thought it can't be that bad of a form since several non-vaxing mothers told me they signed it.

I'm a bit upset that the "non-vax friendly" practice isn't a reality. I had worse expectations, so I came away initially feeling okay about the ordeal. At this moment, the visit served it's purpose, to get a pediatric opthomologist on our insurance since the insurance does not classify the opthomologist by specialty I was over whelmed by the prospect of calling every doctor on the list to find out. My dd has a blocked tear duct that needs to be addressed, it's been a year and it is no better, in fact it seems to be getting worse.

I'm mad at myself for letting this get to me and occupying my working time, I work from home as an accountant I've got 1st quarter reports to do on top of end of the year stuff due next week.

I'm about to turn this machine off, get a drink of water, and go stand outside for a few minutes, smell the rain more deeply and say a prayer. Then maybe I can feel some peace and go to sleep.
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#10 of 29 Old 04-08-2005, 02:11 AM
 
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Just a hug and a for sticking to your guns. I haven't even made an appointment to interview a ped yet because I just don't want to deal with the propaganda. They won't wear me down (more likely they'll piss me off and I'll say something I shouldn't.... ) but I just don't want to deal.

Good job for protecting your child.

-Angela
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#11 of 29 Old 04-08-2005, 04:33 AM
 
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Good for you for sticking to your guns!

If you got the name from me, please let me know and I can correct the info I have accordingly.

Quote:
tried to guilt trip me about public health with the rubella, etc.
Regarding rubella, that is a load of hooey. That vaccine has done NO good regarding congenital rubella syndrome. Yes there are less cases of RUBELLA itself......but of congenital rubella syndrome (the part about pregnanct women/birth defects)......even after 30 years of vaxing, their was still 11 cases of CRS (congenital rubella syndrome) which is the same as in 1967 BEFORE THERE EVER WAS A VACCINE. So dont let them guilt you. You have NOTHING to feel guilty about.


Desiree

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#12 of 29 Old 04-09-2005, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
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This is a pediatric clinic in Northern Virginia with a supposed reputation for being non-vax friendly. The recommendation came from both MDC Tribal area and a local NFL group. There was one comment that what I was looking for was not available and come to find out the majority of those recommending the office are selective and delayed vaxed, not saying NO PERIOD.

I knew they had a form to sign and I was under the impression that it was no big deal. I read over it as best I could with 2 children wanting to leave after the longest appointment wait time in the history of man. I just wanted to get out of there and I was feeling weak from lack of food.

Time line: Left home at 9:50am, arrived at 10:48am
In waiting room at 10:54am, appointment time 11:00am
Nurse finally calls us back at 11:45am
Doctor finally comes in at 12:25am
Doctor leaves to take a phone call, doctor leave to ask someone a question, doctor leaves again to look for a paper, comes back with out it, doctor leaves to get me the name and no of a specialist my dd needs to see.
I'm standing at the check-out at 1:15pm -- hungry, mental overload, and 2 children who are hungry and past 1's nap time, I just didn't have it in me to fully comprehend what I had signed until I got home and re-read it after food and quiet.

Now Monday will be spend doing a damage control letter to clear my butt of liability.

I posted elsewhere about this, but I think I'm going to take my partially vaxed 2 yr old to our family doctor for his 3 yr WC visit and speak openly that he isn't going to be vaxed anymore. It is bound to come up since he doesn't have what he is suppose to have for his age. After that visit I will know whether or not I feel comfortable staying there. I will come ahead of time with my own letter, I hesitate to use my religious exemption b/c our family doctor is a decon at our church and may not feel that my religious belief is justifable and give me problems within our church community -- he told me once when I was freaking out about antibiotics "have faith".

At this point the worst he can do is tell me the practice will not service me any longer, at which point I change doctors and go back to my simple statement "I'm taking my child to the health dept for vaccinations." And when asked for the record, "I'll request a copy to be sent to you next time I go in." It has worked for years, but I thought I would try the honest approach and look where it got me...
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#13 of 29 Old 04-10-2005, 12:02 AM
 
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Just thinking out loud.

REcently there have been articles in our country about preventable medical error.

We are told that this country is "in line with international figures"

In this country your chances of dying in hospital from preventable medical error are 1 in 200.

Your chances of being damaged are 1 in 20.

In a country of four million, 2,500 people die a year, and 5,000 are injured.

I gather the figures for USA are pretty horrendous, but I'm not up to date on them.

But what I did was get all the official stats on polio deaths and disablement from 1875 - 1975.

100 years, right.

And compared them with preventable medical error.

It worked out that EVERY three months, preventable medical error kills the same number as polio did, without a vaccine in 100 years.

It only takes them a year, to disable the same number of people that polio did, without a vaccine, in 100 years.

Now, where does any doctor get off, attempting to tell you the biggest threat to your child is to be prevented at the end of a vaccine needle, when I think, if I remember rightly, the third highest cause of death in the USA was sitting there in that white coat admonishing you about vaccines.

Tell her that when they clean up their house you might be amenable to having a decent discussion of where the real risks lie to the average american person.

“I want to sell drugs to everyone. I want to sell drugs to healthy people. I want drugs to sell like chewing gum.” former Merck CEO, Henry Gadsden

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#14 of 29 Old 09-07-2005, 01:08 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hey, I am going back to this ped office tomorrow. When I took dd in for her pre-op physical, one of the docs mentioned a new test for food sensitivities that might help me pinpoint what makes my ds2 sick. So, I decided to go back to get this information. I will say this ped office is pretty up to date with new things and that is a good thing (when not speaking of vaxes).

I am taking my ds1 for a well-child check-up (oh, how I hate that terminology). He needs a physical to get him through BoyScout camp for the next 3 years. And I'm taking ds2 for a WC and to get more info on this new test, it's only been out for about 10 months or so.

I'm sure I'll hear it about vaxes -- it's their job. The boys have some, but I'm not bring that information. Their previous doc's records elude to that fact. I've scrutinized those charts and taken out what isn't relavent (like the home health care nurse who was sent to my home after ds1 was born to 'inspect the living environment' and to 'assess mother for depression'. about 5 pages worth of nurses notes on my house and my mental status!!! I don't know if they do this for all new mothers or if I red flagged them while doped up on Morphine after 36hours of labor and 2 1/2 hours of pushing to end up w a c/s -- I don't remember much.)

Talk about a freakin' headache... I called the previous docs office 2 wks ago and left a message that I needed records, no one called me back. I called this morning, spoke to a person, explained I needed the entire record, she said it would be available after 3pm. I go to the office to pick this up, the woman hand me an envelop, I open it to find 1 pg that I brought to them from the health dept 2 yrs ago -- just the vax record. "oh, I thought you just needed the immunization record for school" -- Ah, no, I need the entire record. I could have gone to the health dept for that, beside what you have there isn't even current. : A lot of good it did to call ahead!!! SO, I had to wait for a hour with 3 children while they got it all ready...

Anyway, I'm researching alternatives to the "refusal to vax form". I'm not sure I should give them my religious exemption forms -- still debating the pros and cons of that one. I don't want them to think my decision is thoughtless and a blind committment to a faith, but I don't want the to think my thought process is wrong either. It is hard to put into a document that I believe the components of vax are unholy, unclean, etc. And that our bodies were made in a perfect image and should not be tampered with. And bottom line, I shouldn't have to.

Maybe my boys are old enough that the vax issue won't be as huge as it was for my dd back in April. The oldest has most of his vaxes, but I have no intention of giving them documentation on that -- I think it causes more questions than I'm prepared to answer. Ds2 is were I really started to hold back.

... time to get back to the thinking and researching... I know I'll be back tomorrow night to re-assure myself.
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#15 of 29 Old 09-07-2005, 05:41 AM
 
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One thing I want to comment on that really, really annoys me is the your unvaxed child is a danger to pregnant women. Well my youngest daughter got rubella when she was 8 months old. A slight worry was raised about the woman who was pg who came to playgroup at my middle daughter's kindy but they worked out she was there at different times to me & dd#3. Then I got a phone call a few days later & it seemed that one of the kids in dd#2's kindy had recently got her mmr vax, which is live & sheds. So who is the danger here?!

I had a non-vax friendly ped for dd#2 & I found her way more incidious than the pro-vax ones.
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#16 of 29 Old 09-07-2005, 08:34 AM
 
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I've been unable to sleep recounting the activities of the day. I'm mad at myself for signing the stupid "refusal to vaccinate" form -- I should have been more prepared.
I'm glad you're feeling better about this. It's easy to be caught of guard, and sometimes it feels like they're just waiting for you to blink. I'm still kicking myself for signing a vax consent 'with reservation' instead just 'NO!'- the nurse caught me postpartum and confused and I believe took advantage.

Every doc seems to say 'herd protection' blah blah blah, 'I've seen a child die from (insert disease here)'....and 'your child can infect a pg woman'.

My own GP while visiting me and my newborn dd in hospital told me a story about friends she had who were very 'crunchy' and had a baby born prematurely, the punchline was that after all the baby had been through and how med science had saved here they were actually still not going to vaccinate! No pressure tactics there, considering my dd was a prem as well!

You're doing great! Research is reassuring, as are the ladies here.
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#17 of 29 Old 09-07-2005, 10:17 PM
 
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BTDT... my Ped's lectures were tolerable. And I stupidly signed that form too. But the nurses and medical asst. were

I want to go back only so I can rip up that form.

Hang in there.
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#18 of 29 Old 09-07-2005, 11:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This appt with my boys was not with the ped I saw before. This ped actually didn't talk to me one bit about vaxes. She said that it was apparent that I had made my decision and she wan't going to push it. They had those AAP RTV forms ready, I guess b/c I had don't it w my dd. She did however stand next to me to have me sign the form. I told her that the language of the form was almost insulting, she didn't have a solution to that, but also didn't play it up as a guilt trip thing. I ended up signing the form one for each son.
I decided right then and there it wasn't worth being a bwitch about the sentax of the language used. This woman really listened to me about my children and spent a hour with us. And she didn't blink an eye about the vaxes. She actually cared about finding out why my ds2 has diarhhea when he eats processed foods and complains of stomach pain and that this has been on going since birth. The big eye opener was the lab report done for some parasite that gave way to her thinking it might be Coeliac disease. Not that I want my ds2 diagnosed with this disease, but at least she didn't blow me off like I have been at 2 other practices!!!

I've been thinking wheat allergy, but skin testing came back a no for that. He has had a diary issue since birth and I cut all dairy out of my diet nursing him. I know there is something not right and at least now it looks like I have a partner willing to get to the bottom of this. It's very unsettling to me to change my ds2 diapers before he was potty trained and find the mucus lining of his intestines being ripped out of his body -- I knew this wasn't good and the freakin' ped here in our town didn't say a thing about a gluten intolerance. So, I was left on my own to just avoid foods that I thought were causing this -- it makes me a bit angry that my ds2 had suffered for 3 1/2 yrs. He suffered today, we ate lunch and his stomach hurt This wasn't the first time he has eaten and had stomach pain. It happens often.
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#19 of 29 Old 09-08-2005, 12:11 AM
 
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his woman really listened to me about my children and spent a hour with us.
It sounds like you should request this doctor for all future appointments!
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#20 of 29 Old 09-08-2005, 12:23 AM
 
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Wow, I just wanted to say I'm really sorry about what your little one is going through, it sounds awful. Have you heard of NAET? Might be something to try?
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#21 of 29 Old 09-08-2005, 01:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Have you heard of NAET? Might be something to try?
No what is it, do they have a link?
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#22 of 29 Old 09-08-2005, 10:39 AM
 
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Had DS 2 mos. check-up yesterday and told them we weren't vaxing. So, they call us back and the nurse starts getting out her vax equipment and I say that "he's not getting shots today" and she says "what?" I repeat. She says "why not." in a sarcastic voice. I say because he's not getting any. She says "what is the reason." I feel like this is getting ridiculous and I say "because my husband and I decided not to get any shots the first year." (I actually didn't realize I had said "the first year" until she had a COMPLETE attitude change and got all soft and understanding and says..."oh, okay so your not getting shots the first year.") sigh. why did I say that? It just came out. Anyway, she leaves I guess to tell the Dr. or whatever and comes back in all cheery and chatty, like a different person talking about her five babies who are almost grown, etc. Then, after she is done with wt. and all, she says as leaving "so your just not getting vaccinations for the first year, right?... At this point I'm thinking to myself just let her think what she wants to get her off my back.
But, I say...
well, the only one I was concerned about was Pertussis and by the time he had any degree of immunity from the vax, (and we say this at the same time!) "he would be past the age of real concern". She almost echoes my exact words,and so, she even agrees with me on that issue and still is pressing for vaxing that hard!!!!!!! UGH!
So, then the Dr. sees him and doesn't say a word about it until the end of the visit and says "are we getting vaccinations today?" and I say "no". And she says "well, we're all done then! See you at 4 mos."

Good for you for sticking to your guns...it can be a pain in the a$$ for sure.
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#23 of 29 Old 09-08-2005, 01:22 PM
 
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I went for the 6 month "well baby check" and said to the nurse "i don't want any vaccines" she didn't comment. The doctor came in and I said the same - waiting for the lectures, etc. She said"okay". The end. That was it. maybe they'll try and get me next time :LOL
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#24 of 29 Old 09-08-2005, 01:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by joy11
Then, after she is done with wt. and all, she says as leaving "so your just not getting vaccinations for the first year, right?...

So, then the Dr. sees him and doesn't say a word about it until the end of the visit and says "are we getting vaccinations today?" and I say "no". And she says "well, we're all done then! See you at 4 mos."
You informed the doc at the beginning of the appointment you weren't vaxing and it was mutually agreed upon and then she asks you at the end of the appointment, "Are we getting vaccinations today?"
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#25 of 29 Old 09-08-2005, 02:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electra375
No what is it, do they have a link?
http://www.naet.com/subscribers/index.html


I'll admit, I was skeptical at first. I wanted to have a relationship with a naturopath dr in general, and I saw she did NAET. I have allergies, so I did it for myself- and it actually worked. I was sooo allergic to cats (as well as other things) but I did the NAET for cats. I've been a friends house who has 4 cats and no allergies. Usually I didn't even need to see the cat, just being in the house would be enough for the ichy eyes ect. I did it for some food and other environmental, and tested dd for some basic things as well.
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#26 of 29 Old 09-08-2005, 02:55 PM
 
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I guess I should answer your question
It's allergy testing- non-invasive on the basis of kinesiology. You hold a small vial of the allergen, and the dr tests your response to it, then does muscle testing and treating (tapping on your spin). It's completely non-invasive, no needles, bloodwork or anything. Then you have to avoid the allergen for 25 hours- can't touch, eat or go near it.
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#27 of 29 Old 09-08-2005, 05:16 PM
 
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Electra,

Regarding " food allergies" you might want to consider that his intestinal flora are out of whack, causing the mucus (a classic sign) and the inability to digest foods properly... rather than "there are certain foods that my DS is allergic to and always will be".

See these threads for further discussion:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=295112
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=320840

And a diet that addresses the imbalance (also gluten free and the original cure for celiac disease)
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i..._the_diet2.htm
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#28 of 29 Old 09-08-2005, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes, I went the intestinal flora route when he was younger with no results. I went into the health food store I bought the probiotics from and food enzymes for him to talk with them again -- they know us. They weren't surprised when I said a new dr now wants to test for Celiac. They remember all that I've gone through with him over the past 3 1/2 yrs. I don't doubt that his flora is probably off from the diarhhea. My first step is removing gluten, keeping our raw dairy. And restoring probiotics. If that fails, then I'll start from scratch with elimination diet, and build from there w no gluten and no dairy. I'm still in shock and while I have no doubt in my mind, my heart is holding out. Thanks for the reminder on flora, since he isn't a diary eater, he doesn't get those good yogurt bacteria. Of course, I'm meeting tonight w a mother of a 2 1/2 yr old Celiac -- I might change my course of action, if something better or more logical presents itself KWIM.
I'm going to check out the link...
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#29 of 29 Old 09-08-2005, 08:33 PM
 
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Well I do know from our experience that changing the flora completely takes a lot of effort depending on what you are fighting. For some people, maybe just adding some probiotics would do it, for others, a complete diet overhaul is necessary. Any undigested food that is continually fed to the bad bugs keeps them alive and multiplying and crowding out the good ones.

The other classic signs of celiac are: problem with weight gain, anemia, distended belly and mucusy stool. I have a dear friend with it and a member of DS's playgroup just dx'd.
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