Evidence of harm, thimerosal, autism - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 21 Old 05-19-2005, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay ladies, I am almost finished with Evidence and Harm and I have a question. My knowledge on thimerosal and autism is very limited as it isn't an area that I have gotten into yet in my research. My question is, are we starting to see a decline in autism? I realize that they still use traces of thimerosal in vaccines, but am I correct when I say they don't use near the amount that they did in the 90's? If the amount of thimerosal is less, then the cases of autism should be less than it was a couple of years ago...right?

If autism has not decreased yet, the only thing I can come up with is that the remaining vaccines that contained thimerosal were used until recently, real recently...like last year. So those kids are still becoming autistic. If it has been even a couple of years since thimerosal has been "taken out" then we should have already started to see a decline. So, does anyone know if there has been a decline?
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#2 of 21 Old 05-19-2005, 11:58 AM
 
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see post below...
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#3 of 21 Old 05-19-2005, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow, thanks, that answered my question. So, basically kids are still getting that mercury huh? :Puke

ETA: Sorry for the ladies comment, I forget sometimes that we have papas on here too.
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#4 of 21 Old 05-19-2005, 12:53 PM
 
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Here is the John Hopkins site that is frequently updated:

http://vaccinesafety.edu/thi-table.htm
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#5 of 21 Old 05-19-2005, 01:50 PM
 
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ZP, Do you have a link to this? See MDC copyright policy:

http://www.mothering.com/mdc/copyright_concerns.html
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#6 of 21 Old 05-19-2005, 04:14 PM
 
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Apologies. Please go to this link and page down to the bottom for the responses.

http://www.acsh.org/factsfears/newsI...ews_detail.asp
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#7 of 21 Old 05-19-2005, 04:50 PM
 
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Zuri's Papa, when I get an uninterrupted moment I will look at your links.

Off of the top of my head, though, it seems that thimerosal-containing vaccines were manufactured until 2001, correct? If so, those children are only now 3-4 years old. Most doctors don't like to diagnose ASD until at least this age and even then only to help families receive state-funded aide. Since Merck was still manufacturing a HepB vaccine carrying thimerosal last year and many clinics chose to use up mercury-containing vaccine before switching to the thimerosal-free version, kids could have been receiving thimerosal up until fairly recently (fairly recently meaning within the last year or so).

I don't think enough time has passed to make accurate judgments.

Again, I will read your links as soon as I've got a brain cell to spare that is not looking in two directions at once.

Homesteading Mama to homeschoolin' kiddos London (10) ; Alexander (8) :; Holden (5) :; and Sergei born at home 8/18/08
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#8 of 21 Old 05-19-2005, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Makes perfect sense, Sasha. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next couple of years.
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#9 of 21 Old 05-20-2005, 09:35 AM
 
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hey folks,
just wanted to throw this out there as well.. Autism is nOT only caused by vax's... in fact there are many sets of twins where one twin is autistic and the other is not. The recent research has started examining whether autism is related to some inflamatory response that occurs int he brain. This is not to say that I don't think there is some link, but remember when thinking about autism that it is not the ONLy link!!! sometimes it's easy to forget that!! even unvax'd, natural families have children w/ autism!!
I work with autistic children and get a lot of up to date research, so I wanted to chime in!!

[SIZE="1"]Holly, slightly crunchy mama to my happy, energetic, sensitive Aiden (8/04) and My peanut girly girl, independent and proud Lillian (3/07)... Wife to my Jonathan, and a cancer SURVIVOR... now and forever!
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#10 of 21 Old 05-20-2005, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks. I haven't forgotten that autism has a number of causes . However, if thimerosal is a direct cause, then we should start to see fewer cases. The only autistic child I know is unvaxed.
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#11 of 21 Old 05-20-2005, 12:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kochh2
hey folks,
just wanted to throw this out there as well.. Autism is nOT only caused by vax's... in fact there are many sets of twins where one twin is autistic and the other is not. The recent research has started examining whether autism is related to some inflamatory response that occurs int he brain. This is not to say that I don't think there is some link, but remember when thinking about autism that it is not the ONLy link!!! sometimes it's easy to forget that!! even unvax'd, natural families have children w/ autism!!
I work with autistic children and get a lot of up to date research, so I wanted to chime in!!
I've often wondered about stats of number of vacc'd vs unvacc'd kids with autism - along with stats on the proportion of vacc'd vs unvacc'd kids overall. Anyone have anything?

Also I wonder about gender - why more boys than girls?

(nak so hope this makes sense
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#12 of 21 Old 05-20-2005, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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If your going with the thimerosal theory it explains why more boys then girls. In a short summary, testosterone makes the mercury more toxic while estrogen provides a protective factor.

From Evidence of Harm
"Among neurons exposed to thimerosal and estrogen, most were still alive after twelve hours. But with testosterone-thimerosal combination, the opposite was true. Cells died a hundred times faster than those exposed to thimerosal alone."
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#13 of 21 Old 05-20-2005, 12:31 PM
 
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Britishmum, I've read that stories comparing vaxed to unvaxxed kids have never been done for "ethical" reasons--i.e., it's unethical for doctors to encourage people not to vaccinate. To compare, say, Amish children who aren't vaccinated to mainstream children that are doesn't really compare because of dietary and other lifestyle changes.

"Evidence of Harm" covers why more boys are more likely to become autistic than girls. Basically, the theory is that many children with autism suffer from a lack of a sulfur-based protein called metallothionein (MT). The symptoms of a lack of this protein are similar to autistic behaviors.

Quoting directly from EOH, "Poor MT function would contribute to accumulation of heavy metals in the body, Walsh said. Metallothionein and its chemical cousin, glutathione, belong to a group of sulfur-hydrogen compounds known as 'thiols'. One of their main functions is to bind with mercury and other heavy metals before they can cross the blood-brain barrier, and eliminate them from the body."

According to the book, William J. Walsh, a biochemist and chief scientist at the Pfeiffer Treatment Center, observed that, "You've got 80 percent boys with ASD and 20 percent girls. What could that possibly have to do with autism? We found that testosterone suppresses MT, while estrogen enhances it."

I've not researched this theory beyond reading about it in EOH, but it sounds intriguing.

Homesteading Mama to homeschoolin' kiddos London (10) ; Alexander (8) :; Holden (5) :; and Sergei born at home 8/18/08
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#14 of 21 Old 05-21-2005, 01:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERSsmom
If autism has not decreased yet, the only thing I can come up with is that the remaining vaccines that contained thimerosal were used until recently, real recently...like last year.

You forgot one other possibility: statistics can and are manipulated.

That is what usually happens. When they want a disease to decline they count only the worst cases. Like 'full spectum' autism.

But when they want the # of cases to go up they count all spectrums of a disease.

This has been done with every single disease after we got the vaccine. In particular Polio. But also diphtheria was counted as croup after the vaccine, scarlet fever as a fever rash, polio as meningitis and a myriad of other names they contrived, whooping cough as asthma... etc. etc.


There are only three falsehoods: lies, damn lies, and statistics.
Mark Twain
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#15 of 21 Old 05-21-2005, 01:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kochh2
Autism is nOT only caused by vax's... in fact there are many sets of twins where one twin is autistic and the other is not.

That proves nothing. There are many kids who are not autistic and yet ca 1 in 166 is.


Quote:
The recent research has started examining whether autism is related to some inflamatory response that occurs int he brain.

yes, and that can be caused by mercury or aluminum on the neurons in the brain. The demyelination process that is going on after birth and interrupted by heavy metal in the newborn system.


Quote:
even unvax'd, natural families have children w/ autism!!
Where? And what do you mean by 'natual' families?

I take it to mean moms who do NOT get the flu vaccine during pregnancies, who get no Rhogam, no rubella vaccine, in other words get nothing injected that contains mercury or other neurotoxins.

I would like you to post a link to that, please.


Quote:
I work with autistic children and get a lot of up to date research, so I wanted to chime in!!
Yes, but it all depends on your source and who is funding it.

Just working with autistic kids is not enough. It brings you no closer to the information as to what causes the disease.
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#16 of 21 Old 05-21-2005, 03:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
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You're right Gitti. I was thinking of only honest reasons .
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#17 of 21 Old 05-21-2005, 02:31 PM
 
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I just wanted to say that if thimerosal wasn't removed untill 2001, vaccines have a three year experation date. So if the so called thimerosal free shots where made at the end of 2001, we'd still have many vials left on the shelves that contain the full amount of mercury, therefore, that would explain why the rates haven't declined..........just a thought :
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#18 of 21 Old 05-21-2005, 09:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERSsmom
I was thinking of only honest reasons .

Increase in autism due to change in definition, not MMR vaccine
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#19 of 21 Old 05-22-2005, 12:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gitti
This has been done with every single disease after we got the vaccine. In particular Polio. But also diphtheria was counted as croup after the vaccine, scarlet fever as a fever rash, polio as meningitis and a myriad of other names they contrived, whooping cough as asthma... etc. etc.


There are only three falsehoods: lies, damn lies, and statistics.
Mark Twain
Sorry for taking this a bit OT, but Gitti's post here really just made me stop and think. Ds had several bouts of croup btw 12-18 mos, not long after he would have gotten a round of shots. We were partially vaxing- only excluding prevnar and the chicken pox shot. He's been recently dx w/autism, but never even considered entertaining the fact that his croup episodes could have been related to the DTaP vax.

Michelle -mom to Katlyn 4/00 , Jake 3/02, and Seth 5/04
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#20 of 21 Old 05-24-2005, 07:13 PM
 
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well gitty, I dont have a link, sorry... i was being less specific in my definition. I do, however, understand that this i a heated discussion, and DO NOT like the tone of your reply to me, so i'm removing myself from this discussin.. obviously everything i had to offer was not good enough. I'm sorry you are not able to discuss with less hostility. best of luck with your quest for info.

[SIZE="1"]Holly, slightly crunchy mama to my happy, energetic, sensitive Aiden (8/04) and My peanut girly girl, independent and proud Lillian (3/07)... Wife to my Jonathan, and a cancer SURVIVOR... now and forever!
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#21 of 21 Old 05-26-2005, 05:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kochh2
hey folks,
just wanted to throw this out there as well.. Autism is nOT only caused by vax's... in fact there are many sets of twins where one twin is autistic and the other is not. The recent research has started examining whether autism is related to some inflamatory response that occurs int he brain. This is not to say that I don't think there is some link, but remember when thinking about autism that it is not the ONLy link!!! sometimes it's easy to forget that!! even unvax'd, natural families have children w/ autism!!
I work with autistic children and get a lot of up to date research, so I wanted to chime in!!
I agree with you that autism is a unique physiological response... that nutrition, sex, toxin exposure and genetics may all play a role.

Don't forget there is also mercury exposure in vitro and through bf'ing from amalgam fillings. Boyd Haley is now focusing on this route.
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