VENT - chicken pox - push push push - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 22 Old 07-26-2005, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
FancyPants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Where the strawberries bloom
Posts: 1,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I went to the ped today. I won't be going back but I wanted to double check that the ear infection had cleared. I got the polio vaccine (I selectively vax) and they are trying to get me to do chicken pox. I need to hear someone else say they think getting vaccinated for chicken pox is stupid. Also can someone please explain the purpose of it???? The best I got from the ped previously (yes, I've had this conversation before) was that it was an economic impact (people missing work, scarring, etc).

All the stuff I read nowadays seems to suggest that many (non-lethal) childhood viruses are good for your immune system later on. Such as MS and Epson-Barr etc. Wouldn't we want to be immunized naturally against poxes as they have been historically some of the most deadly plagues???

Today the nurse practitioner asked me if I didn't care about the 500 deaths. Does anyone know about this figure?? Is this annually, is this in healthy or immune deficient people? Is this world wide or in the US?? (500 out of 350,000,000++ seems low which is what I said).

I mean, I know that chicken pox is a REAL pain for the kid and the parent but my Mum used to take us over and get it when some kid had it. Is this even done anymore??

If you read through this entire vent, many blessings on you! This push on chicken pox (a requirement in schools now apparently) seems weird to me. They already have so many possible shots as it is.
FancyPants is offline  
#2 of 22 Old 07-26-2005, 06:20 PM
 
alegna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 44,408
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yep. Absurd. The chickenpox vax was one of the things that started me questioning. It turns out that a lot of them were as mild as chickenpox. I thought chickenpox was no big deal. Had it in 2nd grade. Got to go to the beach for a week and miss school. Lots of people older than I have similar memories of measles. I started researching each and turned out there are none I would vax for. Would never vax for polio- A. there's none in the US (hasn't been for decades except that caused by the vax) and B. Most kids exposed don't get it. Most kids who get it only get a very mild stomach bug. Almost the only ones with any paralysis are those with seriously impaired immune systems or those who have been vaccinated recently (the paralysis usually starts in the limb that was vaccinated for something else, often DPT)

-Angela
alegna is offline  
#3 of 22 Old 07-26-2005, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
FancyPants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Where the strawberries bloom
Posts: 1,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks for the support.
I was surprised to find that out about measles too. Unfortunately they lump rubella in with measles and I wanted the rubella shot.

As to polio. My former teacher had it in the 1950s. Both her legs ended up being amputated just above the knee. She has had many many problems from it. She may be an anamoly but that is my association with polio.
FancyPants is offline  
#4 of 22 Old 07-26-2005, 07:08 PM
 
Sherra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,467
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
I need to hear someone else say they think getting vaccinated for chicken pox is stupid. Also can someone please explain the purpose of it???? The best I got from the ped previously (yes, I've had this conversation before) was that it was an economic impact (people missing work, scarring, etc).
Ok I will help out with this one. I THINK THE CHICKEN POX VACCINE IS STUPID! haha. Purpose? money. When it is all said and done, it's money no matter how you slice it. I know parents of children that were damaged by vaccines that would have paid ANY price to not have their child damaged.

Please if nothing else..read these to see how off that nurse is:

http://www.909shot.com/Diseases/chickenpox%20facts.htm

http://www.909shot.com/PressReleases...chickenpox.htm

http://www.909shot.com/Diseases/cpnlrarticle.htm


-----------------------------------------
If you read:

The Vaccine Guide: Risks and Benefits for Children and Adults (Paperback)
by Randall Neustaedter

It breaks down what is in shots...some of that is IN this vaccine. I have no idea why parents would use it. I am shocked I never questioned it as my daughter got the dtap shot and had a seizure at her 2 month appt. That is finally when I began to question.

Another good book:

How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor by Robert S. Md Mendelsohn

Both also go into polio. If one looks at the statistics, the chances of damage from the vaccine are greater than the damage itself, this is something they do not want parents to know about but they'd rather scare you into their side and they have the benefit from it in the end $$$$$. Of course my daughter had a seizure at her 2 month shots so I didn't get "the other side" until I went digging because my doc had no answers but to keep injecting. I dunno how that nurse can say such things...she has NO idea the impact of shots especially the chicken pox one will have on our society. Just by logic alone it seems dumb knowing chicken pox is much worse as an adult than a child getting it..so why would we vax to make a mild childhood disease worse than the adult version? Might want to give her that for food for thought.


It honestly sounds to me like you know more than the nurse. For you to even come here and discuss this tells me you can navigate through what is bullcrap and what is not. Go with your intuition, you aren't stupid to question things that seem ridiculous. The reason why that nurse is so ignorant is she has bit from the forbidden fruit of the medical tree, she most likely knows not what she does.

In about 20 years the medical field will have our children believe how deadly chicken pox was and probably even up the stats on how many died and that is why they came up with the vax /sigh . And we'll chuckle on how stupid that sounds because we know it is a benign disease much like my mom is now with the MMR vaccine. She had mumps and measels and came out just fine and is suprised they even vax for it.


Sherra
Sherra is offline  
#5 of 22 Old 07-26-2005, 07:30 PM
 
janellesmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,258
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Today the nurse practitioner asked me if I didn't care about the 500 deaths. Does anyone know about this figure?? Is this annually, is this in healthy or immune deficient people? Is this world wide or in the US??
It is 100, not 500, for one thing. That figure is for the United States, per year. Most of the deaths, if not all, are in people who already have serious health problems. Oh, and I believe the figure has gone down to 60, now that they have the vaccine. Imagine if the US would spend that much money to prevent 40 deaths per year from other any other cause.
janellesmommy is offline  
#6 of 22 Old 07-26-2005, 07:33 PM
 
Sherra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,467
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
And it is my understanding that in that 100, quite a few of them were adults..and we know that adults, chickenpox hits harder and if they are weak to begin with.....



Sherra
Sherra is offline  
#7 of 22 Old 07-26-2005, 07:52 PM
 
shelbean91's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 9,442
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by janellesmommy
It is 100, not 500, for one thing. That figure is for the United States, per year. Most of the deaths, if not all, are in people who already have serious health problems. Oh, and I believe the figure has gone down to 60, now that they have the vaccine. Imagine if the US would spend that much money to prevent 40 deaths per year from other any other cause.
When discussing w/my ped, I mentioned cp as one triggering my questions and the crying little rubber ducky poster that proclaimed 40 deaths per year. By that statistic, my kids have a higher chance of dying from an accident in our home than they do from cp. It's a risk I'm willing to take. I also questioned the integrity of the nurse when she told me to vax my already exposed to chicken pox kids, so they wouldn't get such a serious case.

Michelle -mom to Katlyn 4/00 , Jake 3/02, and Seth 5/04
shelbean91 is offline  
#8 of 22 Old 07-26-2005, 08:24 PM
 
alegna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 44,408
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Why rubella? Rubella is a very mild disease and if a child gets it naturally they will get life-long immunity. The vax on the other hand has a very low efficacy.

-Angela
alegna is offline  
#9 of 22 Old 07-26-2005, 08:38 PM
 
mom2jolakeil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 206
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh I've got your vaccine pushing story beat. I hate the CP vaccine (hate them all, but the CP is just STUPID!). I also really started to take a second look at vaccines when they introduced that vaccine. I took my oldest for her K visit, at the health dept (what was I thinking ). She got a couple of vaxes (not sure what now, I was selectively vaxing at that point). The nurse literally blew up when I declined the CP vaccine. Somehow we ended up in the hallway with her yelling in my face that I must not love my dd and I wanted her to die. She told me three kids in our little county died the previous year from Chicken Pox and my dd would be next. I remained calm and told her that those kids must have had secondary infections and I did, indeed, love my dd and wanted her to get a lifelong natural immunity to CP and our ped was fine with me waiting (didn't tell her it was forever :nana ). The worst part was my dd was STANDING there LISTENING to this lady accusing me of not loving her After the appt I took my dd to get ice cream and a treat at the bookstore

What's funny is I can't get my kids the CP, I've tried. But other kids who were vaxed against it all get it

Oh and I told our regular ped about the incident and he rolled his eyes at the nurses claim that three kids died from CP the previous year. It was a scare tactic and blown out of proportion. He figured it was maybe over a longer period of time or in No. CA.
mom2jolakeil is offline  
#10 of 22 Old 07-26-2005, 08:45 PM
 
DesireeH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
The nurse literally blew up when I declined the CP vaccine. Somehow we ended up in the hallway with her yelling in my face that I must not love my dd and I wanted her to die.
What a total idiot! I probably would have bust out laughing at her sheer stupidity!

Desiree

DesireeH is offline  
#11 of 22 Old 07-26-2005, 09:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
FancyPants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Where the strawberries bloom
Posts: 1,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
The nurse literally blew up when I declined the CP vaccine. Somehow we ended up in the hallway with her yelling in my face that I must not love my dd and I wanted her to die. She told me three kids in our little county died the previous year from Chicken Pox and my dd would be next. I remained calm and told her that those kids must have had secondary infections and I did, indeed, love my dd and wanted her to get a lifelong natural immunity to CP and our ped was fine with me waiting (didn't tell her it was forever :nana ). The worst part was my dd was STANDING there LISTENING to this lady accusing me of not loving her


:

Wow - she sounds insane.
I told the n.p. that a vax for cp was "silly". I don't know how she imagines I would manage to kill these 500 people with a disease none of us currently have. I don't visit sick wards much anyway.
FancyPants is offline  
#12 of 22 Old 07-27-2005, 03:37 AM
 
bigmamaj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have a great one...lol...I told the Lactation Consultant/Nurse at the clinic that I was opting out of vaccines altogether and she looked horrified and said "But aren't you scared they'll get FLESH EATING DISEASE???"...I was so dumbfounded at this my mouth dropped open...and i asked her how many cases of flesh eating disease she'd even seen from chickenpox (or from ANYTHING). She kind of mumbled something about statistics and dropped it.

I am having a difficult time finding someone who's kids HAVE the chicken pox so i can take my son to play and get it over with!

Any suggestions?

Lisa

PS - Hi, I'm Lisa BTW...lol...how's that for an intro?
bigmamaj is offline  
#13 of 22 Old 07-27-2005, 03:53 AM - Thread Starter
 
FancyPants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Where the strawberries bloom
Posts: 1,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
I am having a difficult time finding someone who's kids HAVE the chicken pox so i can take my son to play and get it over with!
Hmmm... have you posted in the tribe section?? Maybe there is an local alternative health practioner who would put up a flyer in their office so that when a patient's kid has cp they could contact you? :LOL

good luck
FancyPants is offline  
#14 of 22 Old 07-27-2005, 03:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
FancyPants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Where the strawberries bloom
Posts: 1,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Plus which, now that I think of it, isn't flesh eating disease a bacterial infection???

OT: How is it in Calgary right now? I moved from there 5 yrs ago and it has hit 47C down here this month.


Oh and hi, my name is CJ
FancyPants is offline  
#15 of 22 Old 07-27-2005, 12:45 PM
 
mom2jolakeil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 206
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I just love the logic of the pro-vax people. Honestly, if I were afraid of the diseases (which most I'm not) I would be concerned about kids who have just been vaxed, not the non-vaxed.

I've also had a rough time exposing my kids to CP. They've been exposed a few times, but I think it was from kids who were vaxed. I know my oldest was visiting my niece and nephew and they had gotten the CP vaccine. They both came down with it. My SIL let me know and I begged her to have her dd lick a popsicle and have Johannah share it and anything else my niece touched to have my dd touch. I even told my MIL (MIL and FIL took my dd). My SIL acted like I had lost my mind, but I figured my MIL would understand. Johannah never got them. Then Laura was exposed at the end of the school year and she didn't get it.

Does anyone know if the CP in the vaccine is harder to catch?? My other question is, is it strong enough to even create a "real" case?
mom2jolakeil is offline  
#16 of 22 Old 07-27-2005, 02:01 PM
 
shelbean91's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 9,442
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm pretty sure my ds2 caught chicken pox from a newly vax'd kid. Just hang around dr offices or preschools/newly vax'd kids.

Good luck.

Michelle -mom to Katlyn 4/00 , Jake 3/02, and Seth 5/04
shelbean91 is offline  
#17 of 22 Old 07-27-2005, 03:19 PM
 
phathui5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Oregon
Posts: 17,479
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I think the chickenpox vaccine is stupid. Our pediatrician said the big push for it is so that less parents miss time from work. I don't WOH, so I'm not worried about having to take time off.

Midwife (CPM, LDM) and homeschooling mama to:
13yo ds   10yo dd  8yo ds and 6yo ds and 1yo ds  
phathui5 is offline  
#18 of 22 Old 07-27-2005, 03:58 PM
 
plantmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,506
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We've been putting the ped. off for the past few months saying we'll do some vaccines when ds turns 2. She said that she would strongly encourage us to get chicken pox and mmr as the most important! Those are the diseases I'm not even worried about!
plantmama is offline  
#19 of 22 Old 07-27-2005, 04:59 PM
 
JamesMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Is a PROUD Iowan (finally...)
Posts: 8,157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh my duh...the chicken pox vaccine is the stupidest vaccine EVER! I got CP when I was in 7th grade...my biggest complaint? I got them the day after Christmas so we were on Christmas break so I didn't get to miss a single day of school! Can you believe my luck? My brother got them the day before we were supposed to go back to school so he got to miss a whole week. So not fair! LOL

Renae wife to J :, Mama to 4.5y/o J-bird and 2y/o A : and E coming in late Dec/Early Jan. My husband had a living donor kidney transplant! :
JamesMama is offline  
#20 of 22 Old 07-27-2005, 08:28 PM
 
polka123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: in criminally lenient, corrupt PA & *missing AZ *
Posts: 7,950
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I got a severe case of CP @ age 40 & survived thru it... just fine... -

Me & DH hug2.gif , adult DD lips.gif & 7 yo DS guitar.gif . 2 GSDs, 6 rescue kitties, 4 birds & a gerbil.
polka123 is offline  
#21 of 22 Old 07-27-2005, 10:50 PM
 
Electra375's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FancyPants
I won't be going back


Quote:
Originally Posted by FancyPants
I need to hear someone else say they think getting vaccinated for chicken pox is stupid.
Yes, it is stupid. Chicken pox is pretty benign in a child under 13 (or so). It is rare that chicken pox the disease causes lasting harm, a scar or two, but that can be avoided or fixed later. Honestly, I do believe the push is so parents are not put out, kids don't miss a week or so of school, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FancyPants
All the stuff I read nowadays seems to suggest that many (non-lethal) childhood viruses are good for your immune system later on. Such as MS and Epson-Barr etc.
Yes... Right on the money...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FancyPants
Today the nurse practitioner asked me if I didn't care about the 500 deaths.
No, I don't care. And the reason is that of those 500 very few were healthy children in their childhood years when chicken pox is suppose to invade the immune system and make it stronger. Also the other stat you had, 500 out of that huge number is so little -- really. I'm willing to take the risk, I don't know personally 1 person who was even remotely deathly ill from having chicken pox -- I'm still here, you're still here, my parents,my grandparents, all extended great aunts and uncles, my husband, my husband's parents, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FancyPants
Mum used to take us over and get it when some kid had it. Is this even done anymore??
Yes, Families for Natural Living groups, La Leche League groups, AP groups, homeschooling groups. These are just a few of the local and not so local groups where I live that do hold Chicken Pox parties.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FancyPants
This push on chicken pox (a requirement in schools now apparently) seems weird to me. They already have so many possible shots as it is.
Yeah, too many. We survived and we didn't have Hib, Hep B, Prevnar, etc. Some of the ladies here are old enough to not have had MMR either. I had pertusis, even though I was fully vaccinated -- do you think I would trust that a vaccine is going to protect my children???

Schools try to not tell you that it is required and mandated to vaccinate. All but 2 states have religious or philisophical exemptions.

Glad you are here and learning more.
Electra375 is offline  
#22 of 22 Old 07-27-2005, 11:41 PM
 
JBaxter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 4,282
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My older sons both had the vaccine 2 yrs later the both had a HORRIBLE case. So much for the vac huh.

Jeana Christian momma to 4 sons Logan 18, Connor 15, Nathan 6, and bonus baby Jack 1
JBaxter is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off