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#1 of 29 Old 07-28-2005, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Good Morning.

I am wondering about daycare on base and vaccinations. We will be moving to Germany and I can not find anyone to tell me the policy re vaccinations. I called the CDC (i am a single parent) and they were shocked that I selectively vaccinate. They stated that they never encountered that before and that everyone vaccinates. I told them that I have done some (DPT - for the tetanus portion), but not the others. No one seems to know the answer and they had no idea that vaccine waivers exist. I am afraid to get to Germany and then be told he has to have all the vaccines. I am not going to put him in the CDC, but rather in a family based (which is regulated by CDC)...so we would still fall under the rules.

anyone else have this problem...if so...how did it get handled?
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#2 of 29 Old 07-28-2005, 02:43 PM
 
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that everyone vaccinates.



Maybe the folks at this website can help you if no one here knows:

http://www.909shot.com/Default.htm

They may just have something on their website addressing this. I haven't checked but know they are a good authority to get info from.


So far, the only country that is extremely anal about vaxes is the USA that I know of. I have had people write me from all over the world stating that they couldn't believe how it is here because in some other countries, they don't even allow certain vaxes due to it not proving to be effective..but we'd never hear of those stories in the news here in the usa. I assure them that most states have a way to get out of it and it's basically the medical field that needs an attitude adjustment.

I'm proud to be an american but sheesh..the news is disgusting and does not watch out for us to keep things in check!


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#3 of 29 Old 07-28-2005, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I totally agree. Here in CA things are pretty flex. Although my first pediatrician in Los Gatos, CA kicked us out because we selectively vax. It was all or nothing. I went to my regular family dr who is very cool and tells us what they must...but supports our ideas.

I am worried the military may make me vax him all the required ones. UGH. I hope not...but this is a concern.
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#4 of 29 Old 07-28-2005, 03:17 PM
 
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#5 of 29 Old 07-28-2005, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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We will be living in Schweinfurt. I will be there as a DOD civilian. I am a single parent and am looking forward to this move immensely. This is one of the areas in which I worry most. I hope that they will honor my selective vaxing.
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#6 of 29 Old 07-28-2005, 09:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LailaCA
They stated that they never encountered that before and that everyone vaccinates.
You already know from reading these threads that statement is a crock! Do a search on this forum, and you will find military moms who do not vaccinate.

There are even military personnel who do not vaccinate.
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#7 of 29 Old 07-29-2005, 01:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah I did not guess that this was correct, however, I can not tell them (over long distance) that I do not believe them. I just asserted that CONUS we have vaccine waivers...and that I am a special educator and have seen the waivers for the last 15 years. They still stated they had never heard of a waiver. I can not alienate them as I need him to have some care and German holidays do not jive with American holidays...although I really would like for him to be in a Waldorf school....that is what I wanted stateside too!

Anyway....I just wondered if there is something to the effect of an ed-code which states that vaccines can not be forced! What about those folks who abstain for religious reasons? mine is totally philosophical (i am a special educator and I just do not believe in vaccines...from lots of reading on the subject...and from being a long time Mothering follower). Cross your fingers that I can go through this peacefully. (oh yeah we still nurse and co-sleep...I hope they do not find that shocking too. here one day care center told me not to nurse inside their center as my child was too old to be nursed and it wasnt good for the other kids to see!)
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#8 of 29 Old 07-29-2005, 02:09 AM
 
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#9 of 29 Old 07-29-2005, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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WOW fantastic. I will follow your advice. In my current school district they have a very short paragraph which parents sign...and they do not have to state that it is for religious or philosophical. They just sign that the risks are understood etc. I wonder if I state religious if they will ask me what religion etc.?

I am seeing my physician this afternoon for an oesteopathic adjustment so i will see what I can get from her. I have been to the same doctors, here in CA, for 17 years.

It would be wonderful to have my child at a Waldorf or Montessori...so I will have to check out the local area and see if there are any that are close in calendar and begin/end time. This is my preference!

Thanks so much. Where are you located? DId you say k-town?
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#10 of 29 Old 07-29-2005, 12:14 PM
 
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#11 of 29 Old 07-29-2005, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the advice. I will check out those strollers. I will do quite a lot of shopping in German stores. I am dying to get me and eckbank!

I will definitely check out the local waldorf and montessori schools. How do you find the teachers? Are they lovey-dovey...more formal? Are they really nurturing? Is your child fluent in German? I would love mine to be...
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#12 of 29 Old 07-30-2005, 02:45 AM
 
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#13 of 29 Old 07-30-2005, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah my area will be small too, though not as small as your possibly, I just need to find something close to post. Being single...I am trying to simplify my life as much as possible. I will have to live off base, so I want a home close to base, and I want his care either on the economy close to base or on base. This will make mornings much easier. I would love a Waldorf or Montessori!!! This would be a dream come true. I would also love to find another mother (on or off base) who holds the same philosophies: gentle/natural discipline, good food, child led exploration, and just very loving and nuturing. This whole vaccine thing worries me as I do not need to be told, upon arrival, that he must be vaccinated and no if, ands, or buts about it. I spoke with my physician and she stated there is nothing she can write. I will be hand carrying his records. She is wonderful as she is not pro vaccine or anti really. She is selective also in her outlook.

So I am really looking forward to the move (stocking up at Whole Foods and other items which i use a lot and wonder if I will find like Indian Food spices!)

Any tips on any specific items which you have trouble finding and you routinely get shipped from the u.s.?
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#14 of 29 Old 07-31-2005, 02:59 AM
 
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#15 of 29 Old 07-31-2005, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That is fantastic. I wish that would happen with me. It seems when people see me they are not scared, but rather the opposite. It appears that people think they can push me around and give me ultimatums. (I am quiet, non confrontational, five foot two,). I wish I had that element that you have! Boy, would my life be much easier.

I only use items from Whole Foods so I will talk to my local manager and see if every so often they can send me a package. Now I will just send some vitamins and homeopathic meds in my small shipment of goods.

I will NEVER do the chickenpox vaccine. I want my son to get them naturally and have that lifelong immunity (hopefully).

Cross your fingers that I do not get too much grief. I really need to find him a placement right away so that I can gradually get him used to the place where he will be.
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#16 of 29 Old 07-31-2005, 12:20 PM
 
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#17 of 29 Old 07-31-2005, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hey pass on that evil look to me...I do need it for dealing with difficult folks. I am very direct, easy going, and I always try to accomodate. I guess I expect others to be the same. I really have a hard time with difficult or mean spirited people. I also can not stand those with control issues...as I am totally not a person who tries to control others. ah....

Well tonite I will be calling the community nurse...yet again....can never reach her...and try to discuss these issues. I hope i am worrying for naught. Here in CA it is just so easy...and from what I understand the Germans are not difficult either with vaxing.

How do you like German toys? My little guy is 3 and currently into Thomas the Train and all kinds of trucks and cars.
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#18 of 29 Old 07-31-2005, 02:58 PM
 
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I just want to say that as a military spouse (not sure if it is different for your situation) they can not make me vax myself or my child, reguardless of where we go. The base has to go by both American laws and German laws, so your exemption should work once you are overthere. Hopefully you can find the specific information you need.
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#19 of 29 Old 08-01-2005, 12:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks....about 1100pm my time I am going to be calling the community nurse. THat is who I have been referred to...as the CDC supposedly does not think that vaccines can be waived! Wish me luck.
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#20 of 29 Old 08-01-2005, 02:05 AM
 
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#21 of 29 Old 08-01-2005, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Darn I did not check this. I did speak with the major this morning and she was quite pleasant. She did tell me, though, that the only exemptions she has had are for religious reasons and she stated that she feels these are the only exemptions which can be made. She did, however, also state that she would check with a superior to double check and she took my email address. She was quite nice and I told her that I am a special educator and this decision has not been made willy-nilly, but with much thought. I hope this comes through...and I will mention that regarding Baumholder. Thank you ever so much!
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#22 of 29 Old 08-02-2005, 02:42 AM
 
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#23 of 29 Old 08-02-2005, 03:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Here is the response I just received:

I consulted with ERMC (Europe Regional Medical Command) Community Health Nurse Consultant. Army Regulation 608-10 is still valid, all children using CYS services have to be immunized unless it is a religious reason and there are procedures in place to validate the religious status.

Now I do not know what to do! I am a single parent and desperately need child care for my little guy. I also do not want to be forced to vax...especially those vaxes that I truly do not believe in - Chicken Pox for one!

Any advice?
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#24 of 29 Old 08-02-2005, 03:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I would greatly appreciate the number of the nurse in Baumholder. I have got to find out this info as this is too important. We will be leaving, most likely in 10 days! UGH! I am too used to CA to think that I will be forced into vaxing him!

Please...any numbers of military officials will be so helpful. Also...what religion I wonder? I am not following any particular religion and any religion I have ever been interested in has not had a problem with vaxing!
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#25 of 29 Old 08-02-2005, 08:25 AM
 
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#26 of 29 Old 08-02-2005, 09:31 AM
 
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I would think that, esp as a civilian, they cannot make you state which religion you are. You should have more privacy clout than AD personnel.

Prenatal/Pediatric Chiropractor (Diplomate) , raising the next generation drug-free!
DS - CJ :, the love of my life
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#27 of 29 Old 08-02-2005, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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What religion is against Vaxing? I am thinking this may be the only answer.
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#28 of 29 Old 08-16-2005, 09:48 AM
 
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Hi Laila ~

I'm a military spouse living overseas. I had to go through the vax ringer and was given the "choice" of vaxing in order to accompany my husband. If I had refused the vax, then my kids would not have been screened for overseas duty and would have gotten NO support from DOD should we have decided to move anyway. *sigh*

I have unfortunately lost the URLs I had gathered during my research, but the instruction I finally tracked down stated that military dependents had to be current according to CDC's "recommended" schedule in order to receive medical care overseas. *Medical & religious excemptions are allowed, but if I recall they are pretty strict.* I also had to bring the girls current in order to be screened for overseas duty. Don't know if DOD civilian workers are held to the same criteria or not, but if you have any sort of overseas medical screening process, that's going to be the biggest hurdle.

The reality for me is my middle child is now 28 months and only current through 9 mo and my infant has never been vaxed (she was born after we arrived in Korea). The requirement to be current for medical care is not, at least in my experience, closely policed. It was definitely required, however, to get that overseas screening. The CDC and all youth programs also require current shots, so my 28 month old is not participating, thank you very much.

Oh, and one suggestion would be to ask for the instruction (military-speak for policy) that states the vaccination requirements. That's not an unreasonable request and should hopefully give you facts to work with instead of the "he said, she said" crap.

I'm sorry I don't have better news for you. Hopefully being a DOD civilian, you won't be held to the same standards. *crossing fingers*

ETA ~ Found the DOD instruction regarding vax, DOD 6205.2 ( http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/c...html/62052.htm)

This may or may not help as well ~ http://www.vaccines.mil

One more thing ~ This is a DOD's school health services guide, the CDC might use the same forms. Immunization forms are on page 65 ~ http://www.dodea.edu/foia/iod/pdf/2942.PDF
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#29 of 29 Old 08-17-2005, 04:46 AM
 
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What religion is against Vaxing? I am thinking this may be the only answer.
Christian Scientist is one I know of.


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